Old 29th December 2010, 07:51   #1
JakeM
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Multiple stations in one computer

Hi!

I've been surfing on the forum for hours but I couldn't find the solution to my situation.

I want to set up a multiple radio station system. I have a VPS (Virtual Private Server) running with Windows 2003. I've contracted 4 streaming servers (each one with their own IP and port) (they're using ShoutCast). I would like to use just one VPS for all my stations (4) running, encoding and sending streams to their own streaming server. I would like to use Winamp+Shoutcast DSP or something similar to do this. The problem is that the virtual server does not have any soundcard installed. I managed to broadcast just one station using SAM Broadcaster (it uses a 'silent input'), but I can't run more than one instance with it, so I'll need one VPS per station. I'm looking for a solution (as cheap as possible) to broadcast 4 stations in the same machine, using winamp+shoutcast dsp (several instances) or another solution.

I've also read something about Shoutcast Transcoder, but I don't know if it can do that...

Could you help me, please?

Thank you!

Jake
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Old 29th December 2010, 08:14   #2
jaromanda
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first up ... transcoder takes one stream, and transcodes it into multiple formats

but, if you want the 4 different streams with different content, try 4 instances of sc_trans v2, each with their own playlist - I'm guessing this is an automated setup, not a live setup

sc_trans does have an API you can control it with (adding/changing playlists - the most useful to your setup, but the API is capable of much more)

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 29th December 2010, 08:30   #3
JakeM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaromanda View Post

but, if you want the 4 different streams with different content, try 4 instances of sc_trans v2, each with their own playlist - I'm guessing this is an automated setup, not a live setup
Yes, it is an automated setup: I have 4 different playlists everyday (one for each stream).

So now I have another question: I also need to 'shape' the output signal. I mean, I would like to have an auto dj or something like that (for 'mixing' songs for having soft transitions between them) and a volume control (all the songs must have the same output volume). How could I do that?

Thank you for your quick answer!

Jake
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Old 29th December 2010, 09:34   #4
jaromanda
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sc_trans v2 does all that ... read the docs

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 29th December 2010, 09:37   #5
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sc_trans has crossfade support (section 3.0.12 in sc_trans.txt from the current version's docs folder) though it is pretty much limited to fading from one song to another for x seconds. for the volume control i guess you could use the replaygain settings (section 3.0.13 in sc_trans.txt) which will be able to level things.

that's all i can think off from what is provided in sc_trans - i've no idea about similar 3rd party solutions for doing the same thing.

-daz
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Old 29th December 2010, 10:02   #6
jaromanda
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as for replaygain ... best to do it yourself beforehand ... mp3gain is good for doing that

then you wont have to worry about sc_trans doing it for you

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 29th December 2010, 10:14   #7
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aye, is better to do beforehand - though it can be done on the fly, it'll incur more cpu usage and cause the stream output to be delayed more than it already is.

-daz
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Old 29th December 2010, 10:25   #8
JakeM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaromanda View Post
as for replaygain ... best to do it yourself beforehand ... mp3gain is good for doing that

then you wont have to worry about sc_trans doing it for you
How can I do the crossfade beforehand? I only have MP3 playlists (.M3U)...

Thank u so much!
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Old 29th December 2010, 10:34   #9
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unless you pre-record and mix the output as wanted, there's no means to do it beforehand with sc_trans - it just does a crossfade when transitioning between songs from the loaded playlist(s).

-daz
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Old 29th December 2010, 10:46   #10
JakeM
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unless you pre-record and mix the output as wanted, there's no means to do it beforehand with sc_trans - it just does a crossfade when transitioning between songs from the loaded playlist(s).

-daz
OK! so the thing I should do beforehand is the volume control. I guess I should do it with another application, by modifying the mp3 files themselves, right?

So with 'mp3gain'... can I normalize more than 5000 MP3 files in a row?

Thx again!
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Old 29th December 2010, 11:20   #11
jaromanda
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Quote:
So with 'mp3gain'... can I normalize more than 5000 MP3 files in a row?
I did about 7,000 in one go so yeah - takes a LOOOOOOOOOONG time

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
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Old 29th December 2010, 11:24   #12
JakeM
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I did about 7,000 in one go so yeah - takes a LOOOOOOOOOONG time
haha really? how long did it take? hours? days? I hope less than a week!
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Old 29th December 2010, 12:00   #13
jaromanda
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haha really? how long did it take? hours? days? I hope less than a week!
less than a day ... but it was on a slightly faulty HDD, and a slow cpu ... so it may have been quicker on good equipment

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Old 29th December 2010, 12:18   #14
JakeM
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Another question: what are the system requirements (memory and processor) for a single instance of sc_trans? I think I'll use Ubuntu for running all my 4 stations.

Thx again guys!
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Old 14th January 2011, 12:32   #15
JakeM
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Another question: what are the system requirements (memory and processor) for a single instance of sc_trans? I think I'll use Ubuntu for running all my 4 stations.

Thx again guys!
Any ideas??

Thanks!!
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Old 14th January 2011, 13:24   #16
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all depends on the type of stream, other things running on the machine and also what additional processing (like replaygain on the currently playing file) as to what is needed. i'm not aware of any known specs though any current machine i would have thought can cope with it fine - i've had 2 streams runnning off an Athlon64 3200 machine and that was fine with sc_trans (was a bit heavy on cpu but didn't get close to locking up the machine).

-daz
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Old 14th January 2011, 16:30   #17
JakeM
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all depends on the type of stream, other things running on the machine and also what additional processing (like replaygain on the currently playing file) as to what is needed. i'm not aware of any known specs though any current machine i would have thought can cope with it fine - i've had 2 streams runnning off an Athlon64 3200 machine and that was fine with sc_trans (was a bit heavy on cpu but didn't get close to locking up the machine).

-daz
Hey daz, thx for the reply!

I won't use replaygain (I'll normalize the volume of all the tracks before streaming them). So imagine if I have a system with 2 cores... do you think it could be enough with one core for two streams?

What about RAM Memory? How much memory per sc_trans stream will I need?

Thank you so much again!
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Old 14th January 2011, 16:38   #18
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tbh, i really do not know exact figures as i've never paid attention other than things just work and that's it. really the best way to know is to try it out yourself on hardware similar to what you are thinking off using to see how it works but if a single core Athlon64 from 2004 can do multiple streams then anything available now should be able to cope with what you want to do.

the more important issue is the machine running the server and the number of streams that are going to be provided which is more of an issue.

-daz
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Old 14th January 2011, 16:50   #19
JakeM
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Thanks again daz!

Another quick question: is sc_trans as reliable as it can be used for 'professional' issues? I mean, does it fail much? How can I do to start an 'emergency' sc_trans in case of failure?

More questions: could sc_trans load a playlist each day called 2011-01-14.pls for today, 2011-01-15.pls for tomorrow and so on? could it load them automatically?

Thank you so much!
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Old 14th January 2011, 16:58   #20
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i've not seen many reports of crash issues with it if that answers the reliability question. there's no sense of an 'emergency' start-up so it just does whatever is set in the config file it is told to load.

for the playlist loading, you could use the calendar system to specify playlists to play at certain times / days - best to have a look at the docs about that though playlist support is a scheduled feature so sc_trans won't play the new playlist until the song currently playing ends (prevents hard breaks though that may change in a newer version).

-daz
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Old 9th February 2011, 09:32   #21
JakeM
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Thanks as always, DrO .

I have a question about the documentation: I've read the 9.0 section (Virtual Memory Footprint), and I haven't understood it well, and as I will run several copies of sc_trans at the same time, maybe this info could be useful for me (I use Linux).

Could you explain me what should I use the "ulimit -s 512" command? Should I use some more in order to control the system resources?

Thank you again
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Old 9th February 2011, 09:36   #22
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if you don't understand it and you're not having issues with memory usage (you'd know if you were) then i wouldn't change anything. it was in the original version of the v2 docs that i took over so i left it in, otherwise it's probably best ignored especially if you don't know about it, etc.

-daz
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Old 9th February 2011, 10:07   #23
JakeM
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OK, DrO, thx again.

Another question: is there any way to repeat playing a playlist after it finishes?

Thanks
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Old 9th February 2011, 10:47   #24
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for playlists in calendar.xml, you can use loopatend="1" to repeat the playlist. for the main playlist i've a feeling it will already loop around.

-daz
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Old 9th February 2011, 14:56   #25
JakeM
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Thank you DrO.

I'm still having more questions...

Is there a way to save all the logs in just one? I mean, each time I run sc_trans a new log named sc_trans_x.log is created. I would like to save all logs in just one (sc_trans.log). How could I do that?

Why is it done in this way?

Thanks
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Old 9th February 2011, 15:02   #26
DrO
 
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it's done that way since that's how it was coded

everytime sc_trans or sc_serv2 is started, it copies the existing log to the _x name and moves any existing ones down so you end up with previous backups whilst creating a new log file for that current instance. that way the log is relevant to that running instance of the server or transcoder.

there isn't a way with how the tools are currently built to allow for them keep everything in one file - could also potentially become very large if it kept appending instead of overwriting as effectively happens with the current implementation.

-daz
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Old 9th February 2011, 15:10   #27
JakeM
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OK... I understand, thx!

And another question: how could I check if an MP3 file has:
a) Unsynch data
b) Compressed frames
c) Encrypted frames
d) Appended v4 frames
??

It's in the documentation and I would like to check all my mp3 files before broadcast them...

Thank you!!!
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Old 9th February 2011, 15:22   #28
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i'd guess by using something like mp3Tag (dunno if it would for certain) or any file inspector tools. you can basically tell if when you run them through sc_trans, if they don't show the metadata you'd expect to see or none at all that they most likely fall into one of the above categories.

basically as long as you've not done anything silly with the tags then all shoud be ok i.e. assuming standard ID3v1 and ID3v2.3 tags (as is the norm to find).

-daz
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Old 10th February 2011, 08:36   #29
JakeM
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OK... solved the tags issue! thx!

Another question: what could I do to ensure sc_trans will be always working properly? I mean, there could be some kind of errors that could break the process... from your experienced point of view, which are they and how could I solve them? which are the weak points of sc_trans?

I new to broadcasting but I'm trying to learn how everything works!

Thank you soooo much!
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Old 10th February 2011, 08:49   #30
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at the moment, loss of internet connection / connection the the DNAS from sc_trans seems to be the main issue reported with the stability of sc_trans (though it seems to vary between versions of sc_trans and also the OS version being used). however, this only really seems to affect going between different machines, so if sc_trans is on the same machine as the DNAS then basically the issue shouldn't be seen. then again this is the fun of using software which on the whole is stable but is marked as beta.

what i've seen is people running scripts to test the state of the sc_trans process (though this i've only seen done on linux systems) to force kill the process if there is an issue and to then re-start it.

basically it will depend really on how the SC tools are setup in the way you've configured things and also the machine(s) being used as to how stable it is.

-daz
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