Shoutcast On-Demand vs Web Server MP3 file

samroc · 21st September 2003, 07:19

Can someone comment on the pros and cons of using Shoutcast On-Demand streaming, vs. simply placing MP3 files on web server. So far I have got file protection from casual saving to HDD, and typical web server might not have the bandwidth to handle multiple concurrent streams. Anything else?

A related question: To avoid the need of listeners installing Winamp just to listen to a MP3 stream... Is there any active-X or Java applet out there that will handle the shoutcast stream and hand over the MP3 to Internet Explorer or whatever the user's default player MP3 player is. This has the benefit of widening the audience. For example, most people at the office are not allowed to install any software, either by policy, or actually enforced by software locks at the O.S. level.

DJ Killer · 21st September 2003, 14:06

you will never have true adequate protection from stream rippers man..

Shoutcast On-Demand ensures a stready stream, while simply placing them there does not.

If you are only placing mp3's, i suggest visiting www.php.resource-index.com for some scripts that do that.

Otherwise you need root access to a server or admin level to run shoutcast then do the on-demand thing by placing the mp3's in the content directory. The only slight advantage of this is you can make an .asx file which windows media uses to listen to the on-demand stream, or you can make a sort of on-demand music service but if you dont have the bandwidth availability, i would be reluctant to try it.

samroc · 21st September 2003, 16:48

Thanks DJ Killer. Bandwidth and root access are no problem. We're in the hosting business and have dedicated servers.

I was thinking out loud about the detailed differences, pros and cons. I thought of another one...

Say my content is archived live seminars. They're all very lengthy (1 to 3 hrs). One interesting side effect will be: many listeners will abort the stream half way thru it, or only after 5 minutes of sampling and decide it's over their head. In cases like that I think in the http streaming scenario, the entire file would have already been buffered into the listener's system, thereby consuming bandwidth needlessly. Am I right or missing something here?

w/o shoutcast server, when they click on the http://xyz.com/seminar101.mp3 link, the entire file is being downloaded. The sound will start playing after a few seconds of buffering.

DJ Killer · 21st September 2003, 16:51

shoutcast only delivers part by part, not downloaded in full before you have to hear it as you do with normal http streaming.

samroc · 21st September 2003, 16:58

Let me clarify what originally prompted this discussion/question...

I was trying to make it so that the listener don't need to install any software beyond Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player, which they already have.

In other words, I'm using the shoutcast on the server side, but skipping winamp on the client side. You pointed out I can make Shoutcast stream .asx, essentially a "wrapper" to allow WMP to connect to it? Winamp and WMP both have the decoder to handle MP3, so I'm sure it's just a file format issue, specfically the meta data, not actual music/sound content.

This is sounding like the most promising route to me so far. I'm still interested in pursuing the active-x/java applet route also, so that there's no action/conversion needed on the server side. The web client just handles the connection to the shoutcast server, then hand the mp3 content to the default player on the system.

DJ Killer · 21st September 2003, 17:07

yes you can make an asx file which will allow windows media to accept shoutcast streams.

just make an .asx file in notepad or wordpad and use the code below. this is an example, fill it in with your stuff.

<asx version="3.0">
<title>Killer Rock Network: General Rock</title>
<entry>
<title>Killer Rock Network: General Rock</title>
<author>www.krradio.com</author>
<ref href="http://shoutcast.krradio.com:8000/"/>
</entry>
</asx>

djmastermind · 21st September 2003, 17:10

I have a question about the .asx.. I've had mine set up for awhile but is there a way to set it so it shows current song playing in WMP?

Jay · 21st September 2003, 17:13

from what I understand this is something you can only do with windows media server, but I could be wrong.

DJ Killer · 21st September 2003, 17:21

someone mentioned about using a php script to change the name of the song, problem is, that wont change the clients already connected so i believe you are right in that assumption KXRM

djmastermind · 21st September 2003, 17:22

No worries either way.. I have a WMP embedded stream so I'll just place a script above it that displays current song.

samroc · 21st September 2003, 22:11

DJ Killer:

I had your .asx file working locally, when I doubleclick on it, it launchs WMP and connects to your station. However, when I upload it to the web site, if I access it via:

http://domain.com/test.asx

It displays a page with only your URL:

www.krradio.com

Does it sound to you like it's a browser configuration issue? I tried it on 2 different systems here and same result. It seems IE is displaying the .asx file, instead of running it.

DJ Killer · 21st September 2003, 22:47

did you change the author tag?

post or pm me with your modifications...

21st September 2003, 07:19	#1
samroc Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19	Shoutcast On-Demand vs Web Server MP3 file Can someone comment on the pros and cons of using Shoutcast On-Demand streaming, vs. simply placing MP3 files on web server. So far I have got file protection from casual saving to HDD, and typical web server might not have the bandwidth to handle multiple concurrent streams. Anything else? A related question: To avoid the need of listeners installing Winamp just to listen to a MP3 stream... Is there any active-X or Java applet out there that will handle the shoutcast stream and hand over the MP3 to Internet Explorer or whatever the user's default player MP3 player is. This has the benefit of widening the audience. For example, most people at the office are not allowed to install any software, either by policy, or actually enforced by software locks at the O.S. level.

21st September 2003, 14:06	#2
DJ Killer Major Dude Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: O-Town FLA Posts: 1,357	you will never have true adequate protection from stream rippers man.. Shoutcast On-Demand ensures a stready stream, while simply placing them there does not. If you are only placing mp3's, i suggest visiting www.php.resource-index.com for some scripts that do that. Otherwise you need root access to a server or admin level to run shoutcast then do the on-demand thing by placing the mp3's in the content directory. The only slight advantage of this is you can make an .asx file which windows media uses to listen to the on-demand stream, or you can make a sort of on-demand music service but if you dont have the bandwidth availability, i would be reluctant to try it. I Make. Perform. Mix. Play. Music.

21st September 2003, 16:51	#4
DJ Killer Major Dude Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: O-Town FLA Posts: 1,357	shoutcast only delivers part by part, not downloaded in full before you have to hear it as you do with normal http streaming. I Make. Perform. Mix. Play. Music.

21st September 2003, 16:58	#5
samroc Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19	Avoiding the need for Winamp as client Let me clarify what originally prompted this discussion/question... I was trying to make it so that the listener don't need to install any software beyond Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player, which they already have. In other words, I'm using the shoutcast on the server side, but skipping winamp on the client side. You pointed out I can make Shoutcast stream .asx, essentially a "wrapper" to allow WMP to connect to it? Winamp and WMP both have the decoder to handle MP3, so I'm sure it's just a file format issue, specfically the meta data, not actual music/sound content. This is sounding like the most promising route to me so far. I'm still interested in pursuing the active-x/java applet route also, so that there's no action/conversion needed on the server side. The web client just handles the connection to the shoutcast server, then hand the mp3 content to the default player on the system.

21st September 2003, 17:07	#6
DJ Killer Major Dude Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: O-Town FLA Posts: 1,357	yes you can make an asx file which will allow windows media to accept shoutcast streams. just make an .asx file in notepad or wordpad and use the code below. this is an example, fill it in with your stuff. <asx version="3.0"> <title>Killer Rock Network: General Rock</title> <entry> <title>Killer Rock Network: General Rock</title> <author>www.krradio.com</author> <ref href="http://shoutcast.krradio.com:8000/"/> </entry> </asx> I Make. Perform. Mix. Play. Music.

21st September 2003, 16:48	#3
samroc Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19	Thanks DJ Killer. Bandwidth and root access are no problem. We're in the hosting business and have dedicated servers. I was thinking out loud about the detailed differences, pros and cons. I thought of another one... Say my content is archived live seminars. They're all very lengthy (1 to 3 hrs). One interesting side effect will be: many listeners will abort the stream half way thru it, or only after 5 minutes of sampling and decide it's over their head. In cases like that I think in the http streaming scenario, the entire file would have already been buffered into the listener's system, thereby consuming bandwidth needlessly. Am I right or missing something here? w/o shoutcast server, when they click on the http://xyz.com/seminar101.mp3 link, the entire file is being downloaded. The sound will start playing after a few seconds of buffering.

21st September 2003, 17:10	#7
djmastermind Forum King Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 6,811	I have a question about the .asx.. I've had mine set up for awhile but is there a way to set it so it shows current song playing in WMP? -- Michael

21st September 2003, 17:13	#8
Jay Moderator Alumni Join Date: May 2000 Location: Next Door Posts: 8,941	from what I understand this is something you can only do with windows media server, but I could be wrong. -Jay \| Radio Toolbox.com

21st September 2003, 17:21	#9
DJ Killer Major Dude Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: O-Town FLA Posts: 1,357	someone mentioned about using a php script to change the name of the song, problem is, that wont change the clients already connected so i believe you are right in that assumption KXRM I Make. Perform. Mix. Play. Music.

21st September 2003, 17:22	#10
djmastermind Forum King Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 6,811	No worries either way.. I have a WMP embedded stream so I'll just place a script above it that displays current song. -- Michael

21st September 2003, 22:11	#11
samroc Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19	DJ Killer: I had your .asx file working locally, when I doubleclick on it, it launchs WMP and connects to your station. However, when I upload it to the web site, if I access it via: http://domain.com/test.asx It displays a page with only your URL: www.krradio.com Does it sound to you like it's a browser configuration issue? I tried it on 2 different systems here and same result. It seems IE is displaying the .asx file, instead of running it.

21st September 2003, 22:47	#12
DJ Killer Major Dude Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: O-Town FLA Posts: 1,357	did you change the author tag? post or pm me with your modifications... I Make. Perform. Mix. Play. Music.

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