AAC Playback

[sacharja]

Hello,
this is really annoying. I just converted a mp3 to real aac (MPEG-II 44,1khz 128kbit) and played it. Playback is normally working, but first: the length of the track is displayed wrong and changes everytime you start the file again. Second: seeking in it is impossible. If you for example start the file and jump to the middle the bar jumps sometimes to the end of the file and then winamp plays the next file. If you make winamp display the time left it goes completely wrong and displays only various wrong values

Greetz,
Sacharja

[DJ Egg]

What software and/or aac encoder did you use?
What settings/parameters & tagging method was used?
What do you mean by "real aac"?

It sounds like a case of missing/corrupt headers to me :/

Please also read the following sticky threads before posting in Bug Reports:

Re: Information Required:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=66558
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=200935
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....d=161361#specs

Alas, with the (lack of) information provided, we cannot reproduce your report.

[sacharja]

Thanks for your answer.

What software and/or aac encoder did you use?

I´ve used Easy CD-DA Extractor.

What settings/parameters & tagging method was used?

As mentioned I used this settings (MPEG-II 44,1khz 128kbit CBR stereo). There were no other settings.

What do you mean by "real aac"?

While searching for a solution some people mentioned .mp4 as a variation of AAC. But I mean the real, normal sound AAC codec (.aac).

It sounds like a case of missing/corrupt headers to me :/

Don´t think so, because I made the file of a mp3 with the program above.

Alas, with the (lack of) information provided, we cannot reproduce your report.

I´ve read the threads, made a clean install and tested it. You can reproduce it this way: make a normal lengthed aac file (~350seconds) with the codec settings above. When it´s added in the playlist play it and put the seek bar to the half of the time or later. The bar jumps to the point you´ve clicked, then jumps without interaction nearly to the end and then "walks" in small steps back to the position where you´ve clicked. As I sad the time notice is going mad when you had adjust it to display the time left.

I hope this information helps you. I thought this problem with aac files is known, because they´re getting more and more distributed.

Greetz,
Sacharja

PS: AudigyII, Asus A8X, XP 2700+ (Barton). But these shouldn´t be the problem.

[DJ Egg]

I can make a raw AAC file @ 128kbps with Winamp (using the built-in CD Ripper and AAC Encoder) and it plays/seeks perfectly ok. Alas, I'm not going to install Poikosoft's shareware Easy CD-DA Extractor... Anyone else? (please be my guest).

Maybe you should try their forums instead, and see if there's any known issues with their AAC Encoder? Afaik, it uses the Nero AAC Encoder, in which case, you might need to use the 3rd-party Audiocoding or Rarewares in_mp4 AAC Decoder to play them instead.

Remove AAC from in_mp3 config extension list, and checkmark "use for aac" in the 3rd-party in_mp4 plugin (also backup the Nullsoft in_mp4.dll plugin first).

[sacharja]

Wow thank you. With the 3rd party plugin it´s working. So my conclusion is, that my encoded file is alright (I guessed that before, because I extra downloaded a neutral aac test file from a codec page and the same problems occured). So why does winamp not use the 3rd party codec directly after installation (if it´s open source)? In my eyes sth. that could be improved, but if I misunderstand the error please correct me.

[sacharja]

[Edit] The codec from Rarewares works (several non-pursuable problems with the other).

[DJ Egg]

Yeah, the rarewares one is the one I use, though the audiocoding one is the official plugin.

Alas, the default distro of Winamp only provides support for basic mp4/aac audio (mpeg2 lc-aac and aacPlus), if you require support for QT/Nero he-aac then it requires the 3rd-party replacement plugin. This may change in future Winamp releases, but note that it's an unimplemented feature, not a bug.

[peaceofcake]

Yeah, the nullsoft aac decoder also corrupts m4a files from itunes if you edit the tags, which is reason enough to avoid it.

[sacharja]

Hope it´ll be implented soon. Winamp should more concentrate on supporting the audio standards (that was why I chose it years ago, because it was the only program that supported almost all formats).

[DJ Egg]

Well, that's the problem with aac. There is no standard. Well, to be more precise, there's currently about 4 or 5 different standards, all with different licensing/patent laws. Winamp chose to go with the Dolby/CodingTechnologies standards, not the Apple/QT or Nero (etc) ones. If you need support for those, then that's why there's a 3rd-party plugin available. Whether this will change or not in future releases is not for me to say :/

[saviormoney]

i would post this elsewhere but i have no idea where to post bug reports on these third party AAC plugins you mention.

as far as i can tell, both the realwares version as well as the audiocoding version of this input plugin never properly close any file it opens.

it will only play or convert as many files as the number of open files windows is currently set to allow (per process most likely...)

since most people have mostly mp3s in their collection they probably dont use it to play hundreds of AAC tracks per winamp session, and therefore dont get a chance to notice this bug.

i first noticed the behavior when i tried to use the "convert" button in the dialog that pops up when you do ALT+3 for file information.

first off, after converting and moving on to another file, you cannot delete the "aac" original file until closing winamp. this input plugin will hold the file open until then, even if you only convert and not playback the file.

also, i noticed that an mp4 file it had just played was still undeletable even after winamp had moved several files further down the list.

so needless to say i wasnt surprised when, about 30 something AAC tracks later it suddenly gave file errors trying to convert another file. nor would it play another .AAC or .MP4 file at that time until i restarted winamp.

this plugin is probably just missing a close file descriptor call somewhere...

well, hopefully someone who sees this can forward it to the right channels. im guessing people prolly already know about it but i thought i'd post since i searched the forums and couldnt find any mention of this particular bug...


-saviormoney

[DJ Egg]

Alas, the only place to report bugs with 3rd-party plugins is to the authors of said plugins, because there's not much that we can do about them here. Though there is a possibility that it's Winamp which is locking the files and not the plugin(s)...

btw...

Note that there's a newer version of the rarewares/audiocoding mp4/m4a/aac plugin available here:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/...for_Winamp.htm

Also note that the Nullsoft in_mp4 corruption issue discussed above was fixed in v5.094

[Tomoyo]

I use this in_mp4.dll.

AudioCoding.com MPEG-4 General Audio player: 2.1 beta compliled on Oct 9 20004
http://www.audiocoding.com/modules/n..._id=70&forum=1

[DJ Egg]

Yes, that particular plugin was linked to in my 2nd post above.
However, the one I linked to in my last post is newer.

[Tomoyo]

When I did binary comparison of the two plug-ins(Rarewares and free-codecs.com),it was in binary agreement.
in_mp4.dll(Rarewares)=in_mp4.dll(free-codecs.com)
free-codecs plugin don't newer.

DJ Egg's 2nd post link Audiocoding plugin is "AudioCoding.com MPEG-4 General Audio player: 2.0 compliled on Feb 8 20004".

[DJ Egg]

Aah, I see... hmm, the one you've linked to is menno's latest dev/beta test build, which seems to me to be the same 2.1beta version as available at free-codecs.com (not that I'm personally going to install/use either of them anyway, heh).

[billy bragg]

winamp kept crashing on me trying to play .m4a files i created with bonkenc - i had already dl'd foobar (which does play those files correctly), but now i've read this post i got winamp (with all my playlists, ...) working again
unimplemented feature?
a pita if u ask me...

ok i've just been bitching so maybe a little hint for all of u who do their own ripping
i just ripped a cd in the new m4a format(not with winamp tho ) and compared it with the previous mp3's i had :
the quality is lots better - stereo really sounds great now and the sound is much 'richer'
and the mp3's were ~192kbps while the m4a's are only ~140kbps

i also added one of those nifty signature thingies to my profile now

[zepper]

With both of the plugins those files encoded using Nero Digital Audio AAC work right as far as time seeking goes but I lose the ability to play MP4 videos with Winamp. The codec normally used for that is Nero's NeVideo.ax. Would the solution then be installing the FFDShow decoding filter or is there a setting somewhere I'm missing? I'd rather avoid FFDShow is possible.

[sacharja]

The problem seems to be back in 5.11

I´ve encoded one file in 3 different versions:
.m4a: MPEG-4 AAC LC, 214.761 secs, 112kps, 44100Hz
.mp4: MPEG-4 AAC LC, 214.761 secs, 112kps, 44100Hz
.aac: MPEG-2 AAC LC, 214.761 secs, 112kps, 44100Hz

m4a and mp4 works normal and you can normal seek in it. aac is the only one that makes problems, you can´t seek in it, the seek button disappears and it displays about 160 minutes left. It´s a pitty, because I think the aac version is the most interesting, because it supports as the only one of the 3 version Id3v1 and Id3v2 tags.

What´s wrong with v5.11? Even my handy can play this file correctly (file is 100% correct).

[DJ Egg]

Can you possibly upload a (zipped) sample file somewhere?

Are you still using the 3rd-party rarewares in_mp4 for .aac playback, or are you now using the default Nullsoft MPEG Audio Decoder (in_mp3) for .aac playback?

[sacharja]

I made a small 64kpit version and sent you the link as PM. The error is independent of the bitrate.

I upgraded to 5.11, because I don´t need the 3rd party anymore

[DJ Egg]

The file you sent me plays ok in Winamp 5.11 (using Nullsoft in_mp3, no 3rd-party in_mp4), but there's no seekbar and (even though it says CBR 64kbit in the File Info Editor) the main window shows "kbps: 0".

At a guess, the error is with Easy CD-DA Extractor's poor quality faac AAC Encoder, though tbh I really aren't sure :/

[sacharja]

At a guess, the error is with Easy CD-DA Extractor's poor quality faac AAC Encoder

How did you get this? The file is works with all my players, I even tested it on my mobile phone, so I think the file is correct and standardized. It´s only wrong interpreted from winamp.

[Twilightseer]

What's wrong with mp3?

[DJ Egg]

I'll add "seeking broken in lc-aac files encoded by Easy CDDA Extractor" to internal bugtracker.

[sacharja]

Thank you. BTW: the file worked with the 3rd party plugin.

[flydancer]

Remaining and total time are wrongly displayed when encoding aacPlus files with Winamp, or mediacoder 0.3.0

[sacharja]

Originally posted by flydancer
Remaining and total time are wrongly displayed when encoding aacPlus files with Winamp, or mediacoder 0.3.0

Seems to be a common problem and it´s still not fixed in v5.111

[DJ Egg]

Hmm. Sorry, but we can't reproduce any problem with remaining/total time display for aacPlus files encoded with Winamp. What settings are you using? They all display just fine for me in Winamp 5.111 with Nullsoft in_mp3 v3.32 as the default aacPlus decoder. (ps. mediacoder?)

[CraigF]

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=36870

[DJ Egg]

Hmm... and how legal is that?

[CraigF]

its not.

[flydancer]

Oh

[CraigF]

well, in so much as they are bundling code which they are not authorised to bundle (seems to include pretty much all the nullsoft written/licensed winamp plugins), as well as some microsoft code, and probably nero code too (although i suspect this wasnt put into the package since a lot of the Nero devs frequent the HA forums)

[flydancer]

I guess i'll stick to winamp then

[sacharja]

And the seeking and time displaying problem still remains in 5.112. What is the problem to fix it? Whereas it´s a common problem (working with all other programs) and not the fault of the encoder.

[DJ Egg]

Apparently Easy CDDA Extractor makes vbr AAC files, not cbr (well, your file is vbr anyway).

Benski: "The AAC+ decoder returns a "0" bitrate to signal the fact that the song is VBR. Since in_mp3 uses the bitrate to determine the play position, the seeking is messed up"

Hopefully there'll be a fix for Winamp 5.12 (5.112 was just an intermittent release to fix the CD Burning bug).

If you're really desperate, then for now you can replace Nullsoft in_mp4 with this 3rd-party replacement plugin:
http://www.audiocoding.com/modules/n..._id=70&forum=1
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/...for_Winamp.htm

Then open Winamp and go to:
Prefs > Plugins > Input > audiocoding.com mpeg-4 aac player > config
and checkmark "use for aac files" (if it isn't already).
Also note that if you checkmark 'vbr display' that the bitrate display for your aac file fluctuates between 60 and 70 kbps.

nb. You might wish to make a backup of Nullsoft in_mp4.dll first (Winamp\Plugins folder) as the rarewares/audiocoding dll overwrites it.

[sacharja]

Benski: "The AAC+ decoder returns a "0" bitrate to signal the fact that the song is VBR.

Just wanted to add that other programs can determine the exact bitrate I´ve encoded the file with (tested with CoreAAC Audio Decoder). So there should be a declaration of the bitrate anywhere that winamp just not recognizes.

If you're really desperate, then for now you can replace Nullsoft in_mp4 with this 3rd-party replacement plugin:

Thanks, I know the plugin.

[kzuse]

The MP4 and AAC formats are relatively new to me, but I have taken some time and read many resources about it and tried it out also. I find it is really great if you use an aacPlus Encoder at 80 kbps. It sounds like MP3 at 128 kbps or even better.

So I tried several codecs and also the Nero HE-AAC codec which is included in Nero 6 (I never realized that). And finaly there remains one question:

What exactly is the difference between aacPlus and HE-AAC?

It would be really kind of you 'experts' if you could answer my question. I really have read many texts and websites about MP4 but it is described nowhere. I think it is the same, is'nt it??

[CraigF]

For the sake of argument, they are the same, aacplus is the brand name, HE-AAC is the generic name.

MP4 isnt a codec, its a container format (basically a wrapper around your actual data streams), which is why you find mp4 files with audio in them, mp4 files with video in them, and mp4 files with both audio and video in them.

Apple take it upon themselves to change the file extensions to tell what the mp4 file is actually for (m4a for unprotected mp4 files, m4p for protected ones (itms purchased), and m4b for audiobooks). Basically, they are all just mp4 files with different contents.