Old 10th December 2003, 21:45   #1
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C6 Corvette Spyshot



Rumoured to be 500HP? Sweet
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Old 10th December 2003, 22:07   #2
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Here's a page dedicated to the development of the C6: http://palmeter.com/CorvetteTimelineW11P06a.htm

Here are more pictures of the actual C6 spyshot:

http://palmeter.com/C6Spy68.jpg
http://palmeter.com/C6Spy69.jpg
http://palmeter.com/C6Spy70.jpg
http://palmeter.com/C6Spy71.jpg

I like GM's bold approach at keeping the body style about the same, with it's twin taillights and the wise-bodied, low-slung look to it, but may I politley ask...WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING PUTTING NON-FLIP-UP HEADLIGHTS ON A CORVETTE?! How dare GM abandon an important aesthetic feature of the Corvette that has been around since 1963! New looks are good, more power is better, but without the flip-up headlights? I don't care if flip-up headlights are ugly when you use them (Especially in the C5), just drive without them and use the secondary foglights...But it's like not having a V8 underneath the hood, shame...

Otherwise, I like it...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 10th December 2003, 22:32   #3
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That car looks so badass!
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Old 10th December 2003, 22:50   #4
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I don't think it is...These actually are official spyshots on the next-generation C6 Corvette...It's a concept, and not the actual production vehical...This is NOT a C5, as it looks like the body proportions are WAY different than of a C5 (Location of the headlights, front and rear fascia sculptings, hatchback window reaches further down the rear end of the car, B-pillar appears to be at a lower stance, front-side vent has a larger opening, mirrors, etc.), and since the chassis is longer and wider than the recent chassis, the body would have to grow too to fit on it...I don't doubt this is actually a C6 though...Smart of GM to have it on a lift, so people couldn't get spyshots any closer than this, or get pictures of the interior...

[edit]Oh, so you edited that out...Well, this sure was a waste of type, proving someone wrong... [/edit]

This car will also feature an upgraded version of the current LS1 engine, which has been named the LS2 engine, due to displacement increasements to 6.0L...

More C6 features here: http://palmeter.com/CorvetteTimelineW11P06a1.htm

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 10th December 2003, 22:53   #5
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OMG OMG OMG ITS A CAR THAT IS SO FAST IT CANNOT BE DRIVEN TO EVEN A TINY PERCENTAGE OF ITS PEAK LEGALLY! ITS A CAR THAT COSTS UBERDOLLA TO INSURE! ITS A CAR THAT WILL GET STOLEN WITHIN HOURS OF PURCHASE!!

OMG OMG OMG!!!
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Old 10th December 2003, 23:16   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bilbo Baggins
OMG OMG OMG ITS A CAR THAT IS SO FAST IT CANNOT BE DRIVEN TO EVEN A TINY PERCENTAGE OF ITS PEAK LEGALLY! ITS A CAR THAT COSTS UBERDOLLA TO INSURE! ITS A CAR THAT WILL GET STOLEN WITHIN HOURS OF PURCHASE!!

OMG OMG OMG!!!
You used a word I'm not familiar with. What does this term, "legally", mean?

Plus you forgot, DRINKS GAS LIKE IT'S FREE, NO BACKSEAT, and NO STORAGE SPACE. Yet still won't be quite tweakable enough for serious tracking by anyone not able to rebuild the thing from the frame up. Unless the aftermarket opens up with a fury...usually takes about a year after a new chassis is released. Not very practical, yet not very trackable, but it's got the style factor down! (Let's face it, that's what sells over 50% of the cars in the world.)

Anyway...enough toying.

500HP - ~100-overzealous-conceptcaritis-power-inflation = 400HP (+or-)

Still good, though. Z-06 territory. And it's definitely hot looking, I like the body tweaks. Guess they started taking notes after they saw the Ferrari Modena.

Long as I can still toast 'em in the straights and in the twisties, that's all that matters.

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Old 10th December 2003, 23:33   #7
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w00t! Another car I will never be able to afford to buy!

anyone you check out boeing's latest? I know it's not completely new, but they are gaining popularity in a few places around the world. They call it the "seven sevenity seven"
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Old 10th December 2003, 23:59   #8
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I've flown in the 777.
It's incredibly huge.
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Old 11th December 2003, 02:47   #9
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i've heard of the 777. i heard its insane.

P.S. i want a charger!!!

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
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Old 11th December 2003, 02:50   #10
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Looks like a piece of shit. Bet it can't do this...............
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Old 11th December 2003, 03:27   #11
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You are all forgeting the purpose of the corvett. Its for old farts to get laid. Thats why it can only carry one extra person. Any more and old people may have a heart attack.

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Old 11th December 2003, 04:32   #12
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@Bazman: That picture's classic! *LOL*

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Old 11th December 2003, 10:02   #13
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Sorry, but this is old news. I saw those literally a month ago.

(I'm a HUGE car buff. )

Some links:

http://www.fastcarforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2078 :

(These were taken when Chevy was making a commercial for the C6 I believe):





And even a video:

http://www.fastcarforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1095 :

http://vorlon.cwru.edu/~aap8/gallery...6/DSCN0206.mov

Quote:
Originally posted by Starbucks
Rumoured to be 500HP? Sweet
Pffftt, that's how many the Viper has and the hard top version of the Viper will probably have more.

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Old 11th December 2003, 13:15   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiteflip
You are all forgeting the purpose of the corvett. Its for old farts to get laid. Thats why it can only carry one extra person. Any more and old people may have a heart attack.
That may be the single most ignorant post I've ever seen on this board, and that is saying something.

The search for the ultimate signature continues apace. I have journeyed from the peaks of Nepal to the depths of oceanic trenches. I have crossed deserts, jungles, swamps, savannas, steppes and frozen wastelands. I have consulted with seers, swamis, sages, scholars and savants. The peregrination proceeds purposefully.
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Old 11th December 2003, 13:20   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Viper007Bond
Pffftt, that's how many the Viper has and the hard top version of the Viper will probably have more.
Pfft, the Bugatti Veyron has twice that amount of horsepower.
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Old 11th December 2003, 15:40   #16
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Is that it?

Wow I'm drulling with suspence...

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Old 11th December 2003, 22:07   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by baafie
Pfft, the Bugatti Veyron has twice that amount of horsepower.
Viper SRT-10 - $85,000
Bugatti EB 16•4 Veyron - Over $1,000,000

Hmm...A Viper can achieve 500-hp using a naturally aspirated pushrod V10 engine...It takes the Veyron a W16 engine, quad camshafts and 4 turbochargers to make 1001-hp...And price isn't even like it's power uped by double...More like times 12...

A simple twin-turbo setup on the Viper could run you up in the 1000's, and it probably wouldn't cost anymore than $25-grand for the turbos and internal engine upgrades...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 12th December 2003, 01:24   #18
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Why is it that all the car-related threads I read around here nowadays seem to get less and less mature?...


Quote:
Quote:
Rumoured to be 500HP? Sweet
Pffftt, that's how many the Viper has and the hard top version of the Viper will probably have more.
Don't forget that the 405 HP Corvette Z06 nearly matches your 500 HP Viper in almost every single performace category. Also, don't forget that the Corvette's engine has two less cylinders and over two liters less in displacement.


Quote:
Viper SRT-10 - $85,000
Bugatti EB 16•4 Veyron - Over $1,000,000
Oh, and the Corvette sells for around $50,000... That's about $35,000 less than a Viper, and about $950,000 less than that Bugatti.
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Old 12th December 2003, 04:00   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by baafie
Pfft, the Bugatti Veyron has twice that amount of horsepower.
And a Mac truck has more than that. But who would want a Mac truck? Not me and I wouldn't want the Veyron either. There is MUCH more to a car than HP and 0-60 times.

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Old 12th December 2003, 05:06   #20
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Old pics (to me) but the car is still absolutely beautiful. They took the best from the C5 and added to it. Supposedly the C6 version of the Z06 will be 500hp and somewhere I read about a rumored special edition (possibly named ZL1) that might be well over 600hp, carbon fiber body and costs around $100,000.

edit- found the link where i'd read 600+ for the limited edition.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=191764
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Old 12th December 2003, 05:51   #21
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What hp is the Beoing-777? Bet it's more than 500.
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Old 12th December 2003, 07:19   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by old and quite mad
That may be the single most ignorant post I've ever seen on this board, and that is saying something.
it was sarcastic but thanks.

even though i like dodge more than chevy id rather have the new corvett than the new viper. that is if i had a 80,000 dollar car budget. saying that i would rather have a lotus elise exige than a corvett.

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Old 12th December 2003, 10:36   #23
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Pffft, SRT-10 (both Ram and Viper) > Corvette.

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Old 12th December 2003, 14:35   #24
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All crap. I'm getting one of these babys
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Old 12th December 2003, 14:39   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bazman63
All crap. I'm getting one of these babys
A car that poopies...kewl!

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Old 12th December 2003, 15:41   #26
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The one I rode on had people on the roof because it was so full.

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Old 12th December 2003, 17:50   #27
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Jeepneys rule!
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Old 12th December 2003, 22:46   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by sgtfuzzbubble99
Don't forget that the 405 HP Corvette Z06 nearly matches your 500 HP Viper in almost every single performace category. Also, don't forget that the Corvette's engine has two less cylinders and over two liters less in displacement.
Until Chevrolet releases the next generation C6 Corvette, the current Z06 is no match to the new Viper SRT-10...The old 2nd generation Viper GTS was a closer match to the Corvette Z06 (Engines: GTS - 8.0L 450-HP, Z06 - 5.7L 405-HP), which (If my memory is correct), according to Motor Trend, the Viper GTS pulled off 0-60 numbers in 4.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 12.2, and lateral handeling of about .99g. The Corvette Z06 runs 0-60 in 4 seconds, 1/4 mile in about 12.4-.5, with lateral handeling of 1.0g. Recently, MT pitted the new Viper SRT-10 against Ford's new GT, and with the improved 500-hp 8.3L V10 it ran 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in 11.77 seconds, and turns in at 1.04g (According to another test, lateral G numbers weren't given in the SRT-10/GT comparo). In all fairness, I should expect both cars to get faster when new models are released. The Viper when a GTS coupe is released (Reinforced roof means lower weight and a more stable chassis) and the Corvette when the new C6 platform is released (With a larger 6.0L LS2 V8 and new chassis).

Personally, I'd love to have either vehical (Viper or Vette)...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 13th December 2003, 03:48   #29
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I can't wait until I get to cut one of these in two.
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Old 13th December 2003, 06:04   #30
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[random überrenner jabs]

These cars always look so beautiful in my rear view mirror.

(The Chevys do, anyway. The Dodges look beautiful in the places they can commonly be found...up on the rack at the shop getting fixed. )

[/random überrenner jabs]

But seriously, The Z06 and SRT-10 are certainly worthy contenders. I just need something a smidgen faster and tighter in the turns, but with four seats and a good-sized trunk. Or as I call it: "Practicality meets Mach 0.263". Why choose between them when you can have both in one?

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Old 16th December 2003, 04:40   #31
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more info on the "Blue Devil"
Quote:
http://www.autoweek.com/search/sear...54452&record=16


THE 2005 C6 CORVETTE hasn’t even been officially introduced, but the Corvette development team is already hard at work on future, high-performance variants, including a wild 600-plus horsepower Ford GT-fighter known internally as “Blue Devil.”

While chief engineer Dave Hill has publicly announced the Z06 version of the next-gen Vette due in 2005 will have 500 hp, his engine team wasn’t sure until recently that they could actually achieve that impressive figure. Sources now say that it will be a case of “nothing beats cubic inches” with 95 extra horses (compared to today’s 405-hp Z06) coming as a result of boring and stroking the next-gen Chevy small-block V8 to 427 cubic inches—7.0 liters. Not since the late-1960s has that magic number of cubes been under a Corvette’s composite hood (though there were some 454s along the way).

More important, Chevy is clearly investigating an ultra-performance Corvette designed to do battle with—and conquer—the mid-engined GT from rival Ford, as well as many supercars from across the pond. Called Blue Devil (no one knows why it has that name—could it be Chevy hopes to bedevil Ford’s blue oval?), unofficial stats make the name seem appropriate. Reportedly producing 625 hp, Blue Devil’s initial power will come from a supercharged 427 engine—and it will use lightweight carbon fiber for key body parts, reducing weight by several hundred pounds to drop the super C6 to about 2900 pounds.

The price indicated on the internal documents is $100,000 for Blue Devil, if and when it actually makes production in 2006—at the earliest. We wonder whether the Devil’s chances of seeing light are further improved following product czar Bob Lutz’s comments that he’d like to see a Chevy-badged car like the 2002 Cadillac Cien concept.

General Motors officials aren’t connecting the dots and saying this is a “go,” but the high-performance heart of Blue Devil is the kind of specialized, high-content engine project envisioned for the General’s new Performance Build Center set to open shop next year in Wixom, Michigan. The center is intended to attack projects with “a sort of race team mentality,” says Ed Koerner, vice president of GM Powertrain engineering operations.

Patterned after low-volume race shops, the center could build up to 10,000 powerplants per year for very specific, high-end, high-performance GM vehicles. Koerner says engines from the shop should appear in showroom vehicles by 2005.
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Old 16th December 2003, 07:33   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cognition
What hp is the Beoing-777? Bet it's more than 500.
the 777-300 has around 81,000kg and the 777-200 has around 67,000kg iirc
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Old 16th December 2003, 10:57   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Viper007Bond
And a Mac truck has more than that. But who would want a Mac truck? Not me and I wouldn't want the Veyron either. There is MUCH more to a car than HP and 0-60 times.
can't speak for Mack but the largest CAT truck engine currently/commonly available (C-15 -- as far as I am aware the C-18 isn't out yet, and I have not seen one C-16 in a truck) is 550 hp max. (Note that this is at 1800 RPM or something like that.)
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Old 16th December 2003, 12:13   #34
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I just can't believe they're going to make a $100,000+ version. That territory belongs to BMW, Ferrari and Porsche, cars which will not be toppled easily, though the promise has been made (and has failed) hundreds of times. The proposed Corvette-variant is close in a couple of categories (including price, which is the problem), but the "Blue Devil" would likely be destroyed in many others. Is Chevrolet going to have a team of hundreds of designers who work only on leather and interior materials specifications? That's what many people who'll spend this much on a car are going to demand. An "extra fast" Corvette for $100,000 will capture all of 0.01% of the targeted market, in my estimation. Mostly, people who will only have a Corvette, for instance, and have the money to enter the arena in question. Not a thing wrong with Corvette in itself, but if you're gonna come off of 100K you're not going in with that kind of limitation. You're going to shop everything.

As it's been said, there's so much more to a car than simple speed. The Blue Devil will need close to its concept-specs to run with an Alpina Z8 variant, or any of several Ferraris, or a 996 Twin Turbo, but would likely never have the sheer luxury and feature-set of it's counterparts. If you're going to spend 100K+ on a car that can't turn inside a slightly-modded E36 M3, it should have at least a few other serious leads on its competitors. But when there's a similarly priced car more established in this range right next to you at any speed, what advantage would the Corvette offer anymore?

They need to stick with building $40K-$50K cars that give higher-priced cars a serious run. THAT'S an advantage the standard-line Vette's have always enjoyed. Anyone modifying a street contender always has the "C5 hurdle" to surpass among their milestones. It's a standard that Chevrolet has held quite well.

But if you've got $100,000 in your pocket, and the choice is an incredibly fast car, or an equally fast car that handles better, has three-times the features and higher reliability, how hard is that choice? Getting into the six-figure range with a production car means running with some pretty damn big dogs. I hope Chevrolet will surprise me and compete accordingly.

If you want a car that'll go 0-60 in <3.5 seconds, run 180+mph, and trap inside 11 seconds, buy a Honda Civic, a Spoon-S90 engine and go to work. If you want it already prepared, you'll still spend no more than 50K, and you'll destroy Ferraris, Porsche Turbos, AND Blue Devils easily in raw performance. Or better yet, get a Miata and a twin-turbo kit, and you'll do the same for less than 35K. If you want a balance of super-luxury and super-performance, buy a Ferrari, BMW or Porsche. My point is: What does a $100,000 Corvette offer?

BTW...I've been a GM fan for many years, too. Cadillac has led new automotive technologies for over half-a-century. And the Corvette has set and held standards for 40+ years itself, but it's now venturing into shark-infested waters, and it's going to get torn apart there. By Porsches and Hondas, no less. If they want to quest the Swedish highlands for the perfect cowhide, that's one of the many things they'll have to do to have a valid 6-figure ride. If not, they need to just stick to the market they've dominated for decades. Anything else is a waste of energy.

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Old 16th December 2003, 20:23   #35
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If Chevy makes a $100,000+ car and Red blooded americans have $100,000+ than they will buy the Chevy over the Porche, BMW, Mercedes, Lotus, Whatever. I saw a corvett making a 90degree left turn the other day and it took my breath away. No body roll at all.

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Old 16th December 2003, 20:29   #36
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Old 16th December 2003, 22:26   #37
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OK, I like the Corvette, but really...In relative terms, GM has always had the name of the game in it's hands with the Corvette Z06, playing the best "power-per-buck" hand, but the $100,000 is far too large of a number for the Corvette to be competing in...

Besides, GM is missing a big thing: Will they profit from a $100-grand super-Vette? Will people be willing to shell so much for a Corvette when they could just slap a Lingenfelter package for thousands less? Besides, I can't see GM putting this out in real life, seeing as when GM puts out a nice concept car, they can hardly bring it to production life...How so? Look at the Cadillac Cien and Sixteen; They were all meant for the auto show fame as a concept car, and the chances that they could fund something so large were slim to none...Besides, if the news leaks out big time, Chevy will be expected to build this "$100-grand Vette" by all or most loyalists and enthusiasts, and if they don't a bigger disappointment...

Quote:
What ScorLibran said...
I just can't believe they're going to make a $100,000+ version. That territory belongs to BMW, Ferrari and Porsche, cars which will not be toppled easily, though the promise has been made (and has failed) hundreds of times.
I have major doubts on GM pulling off this stunt, but Ford seems to be able to sucessfully doing so with the $150-grand Ford GT...The GT doesn't offer the luxury a 911 GT3 or 360 Stradale offers (Which are 2 of the GT's closest competitors in terms of overall performance and price), but all cars mainly have one thing in mind, luxury necessities (if any) be damned: Street-legal race-car performance. If the recent comperision test Car and Driver did with the 3 supercars, it seems Ford will easily dominate that section of the performance group, and the model they tested was a pre-production mule, although it was very close to what an actual one would be...And I thought the GT's main opponent was the regular 360 Modena...Once Ferrari released the 360 Stradale, I read what the people said on car forums, saying the GT doesn't have any chance to an updated version of an already fast exotic...C&D sure proved them wrong...Once final kinks have been smoothed out, things could only get better from here on up...

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If you want a car that'll go 0-60 in <3.5 seconds, run 180+mph, and trap inside 11 seconds, buy a Honda Civic, a Spoon-S90 engine and go to work.
A front-wheel driven car is not the best way to go when it comes to building the "ultimate performance machine" in any performance catagory...There are very few examples of such, but otherwise, FWD cars aren't very good handelers, rating low in lateral G's. It's very hard finding a FWD car that can turn any better than a RWD car. Understeer is a common problem with FWD cars, and if you're car is putting down alot of torque, that wouldn't help things very much either. Besides, FWD cars have a certain traction limit when it comes to increasing their engine performance. A FWD car can only put down so much power on the pavement before excessive power is overwhealming enough to where the wheels can't put down any grip at all, or it's very difficult to do so.

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If you want a balance of super-luxury and super-performance, buy a Ferrari, BMW or Porsche. My point is: What does a $100,000 Corvette offer?
Well, if you're compairing to twin-turbo Miata or a hyper Civic: Exclusivity. To the European sports car market: Not much.

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Old 17th December 2003, 18:32   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiteflip
If Chevy makes a $100,000+ car and Red blooded americans have $100,000+ than they will buy the Chevy over the Porche, BMW, Mercedes, Lotus, Whatever. I saw a corvett making a 90degree left turn the other day and it took my breath away. No body roll at all.
F/R balance is on the mark (51/49), but when you drive the C5, and especially the Z06, the back end has "unruly tendencies" even with light throttle. And they can't claim "too much power", because the C5 has a lower power/weight ratio than my car has, and I've seen more than one C5 get into trouble because of handling issues. Body roll causes less of a problem than poor vectoring. I've never tried tweaking the front camber on a Vette, though...it might help it out some.

Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightViper88
A front-wheel driven car is not the best way to go when it comes to building the "ultimate performance machine" in any performance catagory...There are very few examples of such, but otherwise, FWD cars aren't very good handelers, rating low in lateral G's. It's very hard finding a FWD car that can turn any better than a RWD car. Understeer is a common problem with FWD cars, and if you're car is putting down alot of torque, that wouldn't help things very much either. Besides, FWD cars have a certain traction limit when it comes to increasing their engine performance. A FWD car can only put down so much power on the pavement before excessive power is overwhealming enough to where the wheels can't put down any grip at all, or it's very difficult to do so.
FWD is definitely a problem, and understeer/dive is horrible if you make any mistakes with the throttle. But to put the "food chain" in perspective, I've devastated every C5 I've come across, and I've been devastated several times by FWD Honda "superCivics". What they lack in handling balance, they make up for in light weight. The biggest problem with a FWD car is inertia in a turn. Well, people who build up these Hondas also strip down the weight to the sub-2000lb region, making inertia no big deal anymore. I've seen little FWD, hopped-up Civics and SRT-4's walk right away from me in turns too many times. Traction issues in a front-wheel drive can be prevented with driver experience, usually.

Nothing is more important in a performance car than weight. If I only had to choose one approach, I'd rather make a car lighter than add power to it. More power helps acceleration, but not handling and braking. Lighter weight helps all three.

It's the reason my 325HP can hang with a 450HP Viper GTS...because of a steep weight difference. One of the key rules in racing when turns are involved...use your opponent's weight against them. To be honest, I'd rather face a heavy car with 450 HP than a super-lightweight with only 200. Too many bad memories...

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Old 17th December 2003, 22:16   #39
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I understand power-to-weight ratio, but a FWD car? If it's sport compact cars we're talking about, then I'd rather use a Nissan 240SX or a Subaru Impreza...At least with those two cars, power goes to the right wheels...

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Old 17th December 2003, 23:36   #40
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Oh I completely agree with you that, all things being equal, RWD is a better design for performance than FWD. All I'm saying is that you can make a FWD car ungodly fast and with unexpectedly good handling (for a FWD) as well, for comparatively small amounts of money.

Put an $80,000 3380-lb 450-HP Viper GTS beside a $40,000 1650-lb 250-HP modded Honda Civic, for example. I've seen this matchup...it ain't pretty for the Viper, especially in the apex of the first turn (considering I love Vipers much more than Civics).

You could indeed do something similar with a 240-SX, for a similar amount of investment as with the Honda. But with the experiences I've had, I'm just afraid of Civics with loud exhausts.........very afraid.

Edit: I'm also saying that I'm not the one choosing/modifying these FWD cars. Just my observations of the projects of other people. Projects that have surprised the hell outta my modified-M3 on several occasions. You expect to be smoked by a Viper. Not by a Honda.

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