Winamp Backup Tool (v3.6.4 available, released on 19-12-2022)

[DrO]

the idea is still floating around and might instead be done in a more native form rather than a plug-in that needs to be installed. am not saying the BT is going to be natively implemented, but the ability to auto-run it might (along with some thoughts on auto-running the info tool (if installed) in a similar manner from the plug-ins page or something like that). but it's just thoughts and nothing specific.

[MrSinatra]

sounds great! will keep an eye out for future mentions, and hopefully implementations.

[Aminifu]

Being able to start the BT and IT from within Winamp (if installed) sounds like a good idea. Of course, they still need to be downloaded and installed. Maybe adding them to the Winamp install package could be done too, they're small enough. Or a message and links to download them could be added.

As for the command line support, every option for controlling the backup does not need to be covered. Just one to skip the backup if Winamp is running or shutdown Winamp and do the backup. The actual backup would follow whatever options that were used for the last manual backup.

[DrO]

i don't think we'd go with the option of including directly - maybe a means to install the current version from a preference page link would be the safest option (especially as even though they're small enough, it's not ideal to include it unless it's really needed and i'm trying to keep install / installed sizes down where possible going forward where it's viable).

but all of this is stuff i a) need to find the time and b) properly work out the details with koopa.

[MrSinatra]

totally understand and agree with you, but perhaps a secondary installer, (think "Full + Extras") could be a manual DL option? and that setup exe could include everything and then just use the checkboxes for whether to install or not? you could add essentials to it too, or at least those parts u could legally add np. the convenience of a single installer would be nice, (and what I would personally use), as well as some inner check feature winamp could do to see if all the pieces are up to date, like it does for itself.

not expecting any of this, just floating it out there for consideration.

[DrO]

which is doing the same as a link to download it on a preferences page (*). doing multiple installers just becomes a headache and tbh i just don't want to have to setup things like that. and installing things post-install for only when they are needed is a more appropriate option for such functionality.

as for the deprecated essentials plug-ins, i don't plan on doing that either (for those that will still exist) as it's then just be better to implement them all 100% natively and remove the need for the plug-ins in the first place. plus the plug-ins you'd want aren't the same as what others want and i don't want to go down that route either of people complaining that x and y are included and z isn't - it's just simpler to not include x, y and z (or just do it natively and have done with - which in the long term is probably better with the demise of plug-ins).

(*) which is something that is going to have to be done in a number of areas going forward anyway due to licensing terms which prevent native inclusion - so it's not like it's not going to be the possible norm for certain features anyway.

[MrSinatra]

yeah, I do understand, but it would mean more wide adoption and convenience. I've always enjoyed the ability to pick, full, lite, custom, etc of the winamp installer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur1OOOj_f2Y

[DrO]

and those options will remain in the installer afaik, but what you're asking for involves adding more to the installer than is really needed and a simple link to download things for when needed is better than shipping it when most users will a) never know, b) never care and c) just complain the installer is bloated. it is a balancing act and keeping the installer as small as possible whilst providing most of the functionality in it (like not including AVS anymore) will most likely help to disuade some of the 'bloat' views as clearly an 8MB installer must be better than a 16MB one, but that's now going too far off topic.

[MrSinatra]

right, that was my understanding, my meaning was just that the proposed installer ver could include more of the "named options" in addition to those already in it, that I so appreciate.

anything is better than nothing tho, so I'm sure DL links and so on will be appreciated. and besides, the main thing from me is just some way to trigger backups from the main client.

[Aminifu]

Martin Brinkmann at gHacks updated his article to mention the version 2.0 release.

[Koopa]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

1 question. Has the idea of adding command line support been dropped? Being able to run unattended regular backups via the Windows Task Scheduler (WTS) would be another big boost to it's usability. For now, I using the WTS to just start the BT weekly (at a time I'm usually at my computer) to remind me to do a backup.

I've implemented command line support in Winamp Info Tool already, but I'm not too sure about BT, just starting it from within Winamp would be ok, because the step by step wizard is essential for the tool.

I also added some things to make a 'possible' integration more easy for both tools in the past, e.g. that's why their store they own running path in the ini files.

Though, as DrO said, these are only ideas and nothing was decided yet.

I will take a look at the user base of the tool and may then decide how much time I will spend in future on it. I have a lot of ideas, but tbh, the current download rate isn't really great and spending tons of hours for something which is used by a few people only is frustrating.

Additionally I have the feeling that some significant real life changes will come in future, but that's may a feeling only.

PS: I'm sitting without DSL at home because of my great ISP, so I'm not able to do much Winamp related stuff at moment.

[MrSinatra]

jmho, but if there was tighter integration between winamp and your tool, where backups were automated and prompted etc, I think you'd see a lot more DLs and use of it. I think that would be a game changer. but of course, I could be wrong.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by Koopa

I will take a look at the user base of the tool and may then decide how much time I will spend in future on it. I have a lot of ideas, but tbh, the current download rate isn't really great and spending tons of hours for something which is used by a few people only is frustrating.

Hopefully you will see a small uptick in the downloads (last month) due to the gHacks article. Some sort of official (i.e. Radionomy) promotion is needed to really boost usage, imo. I think both tools are worthy of that, but the powers that be may not.

[DrO]

that fact koopa and I have already talked a bit about things and he'd made some adjustments means its easier for me (i he's having internet access issues) to be able to do some level of integration with things as-is.

and increasing the knowledge of both of the tools (as well as making it easier when there is an issue to get an info tool report, etc) is the reason for my wanting to get them usable from within Winamp directly as some form of child page of the main plug-ins preference page (though for BT, it might be better placed somewhere else, just not sure until time allows to get something implemented).

and with the possibility of breaking changes, definitely having easier info tool generation support within Winamp (only flaw is when it won't run and we then need to go back to what is currently done) should make things somewhat easier, but again is something i need to put some thought into (like with crashes, if the info tool is present, we could also have that run and be included in the crash report to get a better idea of things that the crash reports cannot provide at times).

so i don't view it as something for a needing to be posted with the above comment.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by DrO

so i don't view it as something for a needing to be posted with the above comment.

Good to hear that my pessimism is not warranted.

Sometimes it's hard to tell which ideas are being actively pursued and which are just going on the 'to-do' list or being examined for their merit. I was referring to the management 'powers that be' and not the developers. I should have made that clear.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Good to hear that my pessimism is not warranted.

Sometimes it's hard to tell which ideas are being actively pursued and which are just going on the 'to-do' list or being examined for their merit.

from my position, anything which helps to diagnose and resolve issues is something that if i have to do it on my own time needs to see improvements and integration where viable to do so. definitely the info tool falls into that scenario and BT as well (but to a less extent) as simplifying the ability to get an info report (especially in the crash log scenario as mentioned) is more helpful for us. yes BT is important to be accessible, but a crashing Winamp is not going to entice people to try to keep using it and thus lessens the importance of BT - as why backup things if you can't get Winamp to run anyway.

not knocking BT, but in the scope of the two tools, Info Tool is far more useful from the view point of continued Winamp development.

as for a lack of interest to download things, lack of knowledge, lack of interest and lack of need is the most likely reasons. as most Info Tool reports are going to happen if there's an issue. if people aren't having issues then there's not much need to use it. yes i know people like to post their configs, etc but it's niche in comparison to the main usage that the Info Tool generally has.

similar things are the likely scenario for lack of BT downloads (though downloads don't necessarily relate to actual usage) and is more likely the lack of knowledge and lack of interest.

Originally Posted by Pawel

I also hope, in future native winamp client will support it in some way gives also possibility to use another tools.

I thought myself to do it like:
- Create special plugin that support info tool/backup tool.
- Plugin should display settings page, where user can:
a) set path to tool he wants to use
b) set command line for chosen tool
c) set time/date for autorun (even silent run) of chosen tooll

yes it makes sense but its complicating something that i intentionally want to keep as simple as possible. plus targeting just one tool (especially one that is the officially recommended one to use for support issues) is really the only viable option that i can go with for the time being. i know you've got your own tool, but in comparison, it's not going to fit in with things like the crash report integration i also want to do - thus needing consistency in the handling of things and supporting different tools sadly doesn't fit in with that requirement. i will keep the suggestion in mind.

[Aminifu]

Hi Koopa,

I recently tried pbelkner's FFSox Player plug-in and noticed an error in your Backup Tool. The BT is looking in the user's 'AppData\Roaming\Winamp\Plugins\in_ffsox' folder for the "in_ffsox.ini" file, but this file is in the 'AppData\Roaming\Winamp\Plugins' folder.

[Koopa]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Hi Koopa,

I recently tried pbelkner's FFSox Player plug-in and noticed an error in your Backup Tool. The BT is looking in the user's 'AppData\Roaming\Winamp\Plugins\in_ffsox' folder for the "in_ffsox.ini" file, but this file is in the 'AppData\Roaming\Winamp\Plugins' folder.

Will sort this out soon, thanks.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by Koopa

Will sort this out soon, thanks.

Kinda surprising, since you asked for this change over 2 years ago. But things do 'fall through the cracks'.

I sincerely hope things are getting better for you.

[Koopa]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Hi Koopa,

I recently tried pbelkner's FFSox Player plug-in and noticed an error in your Backup Tool. The BT is looking in the user's 'AppData\Roaming\Winamp\Plugins\in_ffsox' folder for the "in_ffsox.ini" file, but this file is in the 'AppData\Roaming\Winamp\Plugins' folder.

Uploaded Build 1614 as new final. HASH values etc were updated as well.

Thanks for reporting this bug and sorry for the delay.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by Koopa

Uploaded Build 1614 as new final. HASH values etc were updated as well.

Thank you.

[ReeferMan]

Hi!

I got some Problems with the latest Version of your Backup Tool!

After a few perfect Backups the next one is only about 320Bytes big instead of 8,5MB!
He skips almost everything, i changed nothing in the settings and all Fields are checked.
No Matter which of the 3 options i use.
I have to uninstall it and install it again before it works properly again!

Hope you can help me, thx in advance!
Greetings ReeferMan

[Koopa]

Originally Posted by ReeferMan

Hi!

I got some Problems with the latest Version of your Backup Tool!

After a few perfect Backups the next one is only about 320Bytes big instead of 8,5MB!
He skips almost everything, i changed nothing in the settings and all Fields are checked.
No Matter which of the 3 options i use.
I have to uninstall it and install it again before it works properly again!

Hope you can help me, thx in advance!
Greetings ReeferMan

Can you send me your Winamp_Backup_Tool_Backup.log and Winamp_Backup_Tool.ini files?

[ReeferMan]

Originally Posted by Koopa

Can you send me your Winamp_Backup_Tool_Backup.log and Winamp_Backup_Tool.ini files?

Send you a PM, but he doesnt create a log file with the tiny backup file

[Koopa]

Thanks.

Will look into the issue as soon as possible.

[Jacobjm]

wow thats cool.

[ReeferMan]

Hi!

I have made a few more Backups now!
It seems the Problem only appears when i have 2 or more old Backups on my USB Stick and create another Backup on the Stick in the same Folder.
When i create a new Backup on my HD and move it to the Stick it always works perfect.

Sorry for the Trouble and thx for trying to help me

Greetings, ReeferMan

[Koopa]

What happens if you delete the existing zip files, before you do a new backup? Does it work then?

Also could you take a look, if the TEMP folder was removed, after BT did the job?
Under Win 7 you can find it under:

C:\Users\YourName\Appdata\Local\Temp\WinampBackupTemp

[ReeferMan]

Just tried it in an empty folder on my stick and it works
Using Win8.1 and the folder wasnt removed but empty

Greetings ReeferMan

[Koopa]

Hmm, I guess it's because the old zip file wasn't deleted correctly.

Could you please create another backup and then wait a day and create an additional backup?

Woulod be interesting, if it only fails for you, if you're trying to do multiple backups the same day (both then would get the same file name)

[ReeferMan]

Just made a new backup in the same folder like yesterday with the old backup in it and it works
I do it again tomorrow and sunday and see if i get the problem again!
And when i do 2 or more Backups at the same day he just overwrites the old backup

Btw. can you maybe add a schedule for a automatic backup in one of the next versions of your backup tool? Would be nice when he does a daily, weekly or monthly backup on its own


Greetings, ReeferMan

[Koopa]

Just released 2.0.1, I've upgraded to NSIS 3.0b1, which results in a smaller file size.

As for the above issue, I'm still looking what could cause the issue.

[ReeferMan]

Meanwhile i think it was just a Win8.1 problem, because since the last windows update every winamp backup works perfect.
Sorry again for the trouble

Greetings ReeferMan

[Koopa]

Just uploaded Build 1618 1620 as new final.

It includes an Chinese (Simplified) language file (thanks to YanJun Sun)

Otherwise there are no other changes.

[Aminifu]

Hi Koopa,

Happy New Year!

Thinktink has a couple of updated plug-ins that are listed as unknown in the Info Tool, so they are probably not picked up by the Backup Tool.

BogProg NoFlush v1.0.0.0 (out_bpnoflush.dll) and BogProg X-Fade v2.0.0.1 (in_bpxfade.dll). Their configuration files (BPNoFlush.ini and BPXFade.ini) are in the user's Winamp/Plugins data folder.

These plug-ins were made for SHOUTcasters (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=379988), but I've discovered that non-SHOUTcasters can use them as well.

[Koopa]

v2.1:



Only working on GUI tweaks for the options, otherwise I'm done.

[Koopa]

So here is a 2.1 Beta 2:

http://www.meggamusic.co.uk/shup/142...pToolSetup.exe

Winamp Backup Tool v2.1 Beta 2:

- added backup/restoration support for BogProg NoFlush output plug-in settings
- added backup/restoration support for BogProg X-Fade input plug-in settings
- vastly improved and simplified translation system for 3rd party plug-ins (makes it possible to add new third party plug-ins without the need of language file updates)
- made that the default button for compression mode sets the compression mode to zip

Winamp Backup Tool v2.1 Beta:

- added the ability to create 7-zip compressed backup archives
- added an option to change the compression format to Backup path page
- made that the file picker in restore path page allows loading of *.7z files
- updated English and German language files to v1.5
- updated Copyright year

Still to do:

- add the suggested 3rd party plug-ins by Aminifu
- port the check from Winamp Info Tool if the the zip files are open in external programs like 7-Zip or WinRar to the Backup Tool
make default button for compression method work

That beta should run smoothly.

[Koopa]

So Beta 2 is here, some feedback would be nice.

I spent some time to make it more easy for me to implement support for more 3rd parties, independent of a language file update. I think my solution is working just great - at least ist should be a good compromise, hehe.

[Aminifu]

Hi Koopa,

The new beta works fine for me too (I was waiting for the support for thinktink's plug-ins before testing).

In my case the .zip archive took 1 minute and 56 seconds to make and the .7z took 5 minutes and 19 seconds. Over twice as long to save 156,245 KB. It's good to give users a choice, but in my case I'll stick with the default.

I understand Pawel's point, but selecting stuff to be restored that is not in a particular archive would just be ignored won't it? I mean it won't cause the tool to hang or crash would it? I guess you could add date stamps to the log files names (so that they could be matched with the archives), then the tool or the user could query the backup logs for what's in a particular archive.

As it stands now the logs are overwritten when new ones are created. I've been making copies and manually modifying the logs names to have a way of checking what was put in a particular archive and what was restored. This makes it easy for me to restore older files (e.g. a plug-in configuration that I want to return to) instead of the most recent ones, when I have a need to.

[Koopa]

Thank you both for testing, good idea Pawel, will tweak that a bit.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

In my case the .zip archive took 1 minute and 56 seconds to make and the .7z took 5 minutes and 19 seconds. Over twice as long to save 156,245 KB. It's good to give users a choice, but in my case I'll stick with the default.

Wow I thought my backup was big with 157.187KB zip and 134.087KB 7z.
7z needs ~25seconds longer than zip, but I guess this depends on the CPU etc too.

I understand Pawel's point, but selecting stuff to be restored that is not in a particular archive would just be ignored won't it? I mean it won't cause the tool to hang or crash would it?

Correct, it will only skip files which are not present, it's a cosmetic thing only.

I guess you could add date stamps to the log files names (so that they could be matched with the archives), then the tool or the user could query the backup logs for what's in a particular archive.

These logs are mainly for debugging, honestly i don't want to fill the users disks with tons of logs, then I have to add the ability to clean logs etc too.

As it stands now the logs are overwritten when new ones are created. I've been making copies and manually modifying the logs names to have a way of checking what was put in a particular archive and what was restored. This makes it easy for me to restore older files (e.g. a plug-in configuration that I want to return to) instead of the most recent ones, when I have a need to.

I could add the backup log directly to the relevant zip/7z archive but for restore mode, it has to stay in the BT config folder. Dunno if it would be nice to fill systems with tons of log files, tbh.