Old 2nd April 2002, 23:03   #1
Rovastar
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Dx and DY not zero update!!! Solution found!?!?!

THe dx and dy thing is still doing my head in. After gettinga reply from Mr. Geiss himself. He confirmed the graphics card thing and saying there will be no MD update for a month or two.

But I have just downlaod the latest nVidia drivers for my card. And it lets me do the 2048 texture. Why is this relevant well the dx = -0.0005 thing was not working again. WTF I though!

BUt it turns out this is what is needed to be still:

Texture size = dx/dy value to be zero
2048x2048 = -0.00025
1024x1024 = -0.0005
512x512 = -0.001
256x256 = -0.002

SO maybe it is not totally Card dependant. Maybe MD has to be changed to account for this offset.

I have attached 4 milks with this problem in them.

Could someone (everyone) else please confirm this for their computers. Both nVidia and non-Nvidia chipsets.

I am off to email ryan.
Attached Files
File Type: zip test this please.zip (2.3 KB, 686 views)

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Old 3rd April 2002, 07:46   #2
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I use a KyroII with latest drivers.
All texture size settings worked (stand still) with your test presets, except 2048x2048.
I just discovered that my driver does not 2048x2048, it will switch automatically back to 1024x1024. So if I set my texture size to 2048 and use your 1024 test preset, everything is perfect...
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Old 3rd April 2002, 08:52   #3
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I get the same results as you, buddy.

I hope this issue gets resolved, so that stationary presets are stationary for everyone. I can't imagine that the rainpainting presets look very good when they aren't stationary.

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Old 3rd April 2002, 10:44   #4
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Ditto that. Same as Jessail and Krash, movement only occurs in 2048 x 2048.

Out of curiousity, when you set it to automatic, what mesh size does a given preset do? Is this determined somewhere in the code of the preset?
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Old 3rd April 2002, 12:44   #5
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Krash your rainpainting one is the one that I first noticed the problem in. on 2048 the image started to move up and to the left. Your preset looks really bad in 256x256 with nVidia cards the whole screen moves massivly to the right and down.

You are not getting the praise you deserve.

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Last edited by Rovastar; 3rd April 2002 at 15:16.
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Old 3rd April 2002, 15:08   #6
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More confusion??? 0r not............

An update! Maybe we are nearer an solution.

A copy of (most of) the email I sent Ryan.

Ryan,

Now if I play with the texel alignment of my Geforce card (GeForce-->Additional Properties-->Direct3dsettings-->MoreDirect3d ). You have a bytes worth of alignment. Now it is easy to play with this. Setting the texel origin to 0 (centre) to be still dx and dy are 0 as you know doubt programmed. If it is 7 Upper Left Corner dx and dy are 0 to be still also.!!!!!!

The ranges in between are all messed up. See for your self. The default nVidia one is 3. And that is what the texture size info is all for.

Umm the original problem you thought was card dependant and as Krash said to me it is the pixel calculation of this - some cards number the pixels from the centre or the Upper_left edge etc.

Note:

2048x2048 = -0.00025
1024x1024 = -0.0005
512x512 = -0.001
256x256 = -0.002
is actually not quite correct (about 2% off) it is

To be spot on still for default nVidia = -1/2*texture size
so
2048x2048 = -1/4096 == -0.00024414065
1024x1024 = -1/2048 == -0.00048828125
512x512 = -1/1024 == -0.0009764625
256x256 = -1/512 == -0.001953125

All due no doubt to 1000 vs 1024. It will be no doubt more efficient when working out too.

after more searching....

Now Texel alignment is a problem too

Text size..Texel Alignment..dx/dy to be still
256 ....... 0(Centre) ......0
256 ....... 1 ........0
256 ....... 2 ...........-0.002(about)
256 ....... 3(nVidia Default)...-0.002
256 ....... 4 ....... 0
256 ....... 5 ....... 0
256 ....... 6 ....... -0.002
256 ....... 7(upper Left Corner) -0.002
same for the other tex sizes...

So If Texel alignment is 0,1,4,5 the dx and dy is 0 to be still if Texel Alignment is 2,3,6,7 then dx and dy should be -1/Texture Size*2

So all we have to see is if the graphics card has a certain texel alignment not to check every card out there.

So it is bother dependant on the video card and some wacky multiplication of the texture sizes in your code.

So if you can fix the crazy multiplication thing that may work as it appears not to be looking at the res size and you are forcing the multiplying the pixel offset inversely by the texture size. Remember the bigger the texture size number the more accurate the results are to zero with -1/Texture Size*2. There must be something not quiet right in there somewhere. I would have though that the texel alignment on up to half a pixel off with the calculations. otherwise every other graphics program would be way off.

Or Get the texel alignment of the card.

Now if you can get the texel alignment from the card (or do a Direct 3d test of this) before MD is run then you can automatically adjust these setting on the fly. You must know some good and friendly DirectX people who can help you.

Does this make sense?

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Old 4th April 2002, 03:20   #7
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just for the record, I can get it to be still in 2048x2048 as well. Cards with less than 32meg of ram (I think) can't manage textures that big. Or it may just be that older crads can't handle textures that big.

Rova - interesting investigation you've been putting in here - I certainly hope things get fixed. My two most desired functions in milkdrop would be to have this one fixed, and some form of per-preset FPS control - I'm sick of watching digital flame at 80fps - it just doesn't look good.

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Old 5th April 2002, 03:09   #8
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I have a Visiontek Xtasy 5564 and all the test presets stand still with the appropriate texture size. I share Illusion's curiosity about what the auto setting does.
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Old 5th April 2002, 09:38   #9
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OK do any cards out there have natural dy and dx = zero to be still. Maybe (long shot) all cards do not have this problem. So ATI, MAtrox, people etc post up results if only to assist with the help file.

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Old 5th April 2002, 14:58   #10
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I'm pretty sure that auto will attempt to run MD with a 1024 texture size. if that fails (maybe your card doesn't have enough ram), it will try 512. If your card is so crap that you can't run it in 512 (i.e, you have a voodoo 3 or earlier), then it will drop down to 256. Which looks truly horrid.

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Old 5th April 2002, 18:55   #11
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OK in summary.

Cards that need the offset of -1/2*Texture Size.
(Thinking about it is probably -1/((2*Texture Size)-1) because it is binary. But anyway.)

All nVidia Cards (Many confirmed tested),
3dfx Voodoo Cards (Voodoo 3 confirmed tested),
ATI Cards (ATI All-In-Wonder confirmed Tested)
Kyro II Confirmed Tested
even Illusion's antiquated Intel Card needs it.

The only other main group is the matrox cards.

So it looks like the majority is with us nVidia people.

Please keep testing with other cards. Just to confirm.

I will email Ryan and try to get him to change the default MilkDrop to account for this. And have a tick box for all the other cards - it may be that no other cards.

Hopefully we will have a now release in the next week or so.

I have updated all/most of the presets from milkdrop.co.uk in a separate directory on my machine and I will upload when the new fixed version of all the presets.

(It is amazing how bored you get stuck in the house. I'm not well with painful kidney stones. )

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Last edited by Rovastar; 5th April 2002 at 19:29.
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Old 25th June 2002, 15:13   #12
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Someone called for someone with a Matrox card?
I have a Marvel G400, what should I do, what should I check?
AFAIUnderstand, check if the presets move at different texture sizes?

Roman
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Old 25th June 2002, 15:54   #13
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A bit late now.

It seems that it is all Ryan's dodgy code. I don't know straight out of uni and he thinks he can program. The new version 1.03 has his offset built in to it.

What you could check is to see if there is any drift diagionally up and to the right (I think) with the new version. Pick presets whee not much goes off like

Actually Ryan himself has a Matrox card so it should work all fine.

Try these 2 presets attached to this post with the latest version MilkDrop 1.03

Running with a texture size of 512x512 and tell me which one has no movement. Where the circle is static.
Attached Files
File Type: zip test me.zip (2.0 KB, 627 views)

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Old 26th June 2002, 18:16   #14
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I dont get movment on the Equal zero one.. with xdx and xdy or whatever.

My card is a nVidia Riva TNT2 m64/m64pro
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Old 27th June 2002, 13:38   #15
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A bit late now.

Not from my point of view. AFAIK MD 1.03 was released on Mon, I downloaded it, read about this thread in the help and on Tue here I was...


What you could check is to see if there is any drift diagionally up and to the right

I downloaded the 2048 - 256 presets last time and all of them and under all texture size settings had a drift to the upper left. Will try the posts from your preset today and report tomorrow.

Actually Ryan himself has a Matrox card so it should work all fine.

Parhelia rules.

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Old 1st July 2002, 10:43   #16
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Hi again,
Equal 0 is steady.

Roman
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