Old 6th September 2003, 21:33   #41
dlinkwit27
has no CT
(Forum King)
 
dlinkwit27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,235
Send a message via ICQ to dlinkwit27 Send a message via AIM to dlinkwit27 Send a message via Yahoo to dlinkwit27
it is a crap question because nobody who has lived unser militart secuirt can even begin to fathom what it would be like to not have it. It is like asking a man who has been blind since birth: "well if you could see, what do you think your favourite colour would be?"
dlinkwit27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2003, 21:42   #42
marvinbarcelona
Major Dude
 
marvinbarcelona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: m/cr, UK
Posts: 1,143
Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
it is a crap question because nobody who has lived unser militart secuirt can even begin to fathom what it would be like to not have it. It is like asking a man who has been blind since birth: "well if you could see, what do you think your favourite colour would be?"
I'm sorry, but this is invalid. A person blind from birth can have no concept what so ever of colour, because that person has no mental picture of 'colour', therefore has nothing to compare against. The person living in a peaceful and secure country can imagine what it would be like to live in a war zone or in a country invaded by another. The imagines are on your tv screens and in your papers. When you walk down an unfamiliar street at night in a 'rough' neighbourhood, you feel anxious and uneasy...you have a frame of referance, the blind person has no frame of referance if he/she was blind at birth.

I re-refer you to my previous question.

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
marvinbarcelona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2003, 22:00   #43
Mattress
Forum King
 
Mattress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,577
Israel should just hurry up and finish the wall around the west bank.
Mattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2003, 22:58   #44
godoncrack
Forum King
 
godoncrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: http://www.mossad.gov.il
Posts: 2,135
wall does no good
peace or death
godoncrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2003, 05:42   #45
Mattress
Forum King
 
Mattress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,577
The wall works on Gaza
Mattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2003, 06:31   #46
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by Leecifer
While it would be nicer if Israel used Special Forces to hunt down these terrorists, the reality of things sometimes don't permit for such operations.
they're sending helicopter gunships in to kill one person. this is not proportionate action, in any sense of the word.

Quote:
Originally posted by Leecifer
What I see is Israel targetting a specific person who has blood on his hands and they go for him. But at least they are going for someone who IS a terrorist. I have never seen a Hamas (or any of the other terrorist organizations) say we blew up this bus because an Israeli war criminal was targeted. All the terrorist suicide bombings have been random and targeted for maximum civilian deaths.
they're targetting one terrorist, and god-knows how many innocents who are nearby. they're killing civilians as often as the terrorists. often more.

Quote:
Originally posted by godoncrack
the isrealis are lookin to send a message
"DON'T FUCK WITH US"
well done, you just defined the israeli government as terrorists.
(apologies for putting this in the middle, i'm writing as i think)

Quote:
Originally posted by Leecifer
This is why Americans side more with Israel, because at least they are gunning for the bad guys.
i believe there's more history to it than that. besides, no-one's arguing against the fact that the terrorists are in the wrong. that doesn't make israel right. the US isn't attacking anyone here - they're defending people who are taking disproportionate and poorly thought-out action, in revenge.

Quote:
Originally posted by Leecifer
The question about if Canada invaded us is a pretty bogus question because of coarse every American would fight to maintain their freedome. But what are these terrorist fighting for? Last time I heard all their goals were for the complete elimination of Israel. BIG difference.
the palestinian terrorist organisations are protesting against the israeli government taking over their land. this has been going on for some time.

Quote:
Originally posted by Leecifer
The Palestinian people are going to have to realize that Israel isn't going to accept a terrorist coddling neighbor, and as long as they continue to allow those groups to operate there then they had better expect the violence to continue. It's their choice, and it's time they make a decision about the direction their country should go in. Because right now, following these terrorist groups is not making anybody's lives any better.
the israeli government are going to have to realise that their neighbours don't all support terror, and that carrying out such needless and overkill-filled attacks as they have been is creating twice as many enemies as it's destroying. they're fighting against terrorists, not palestine.

Quote:
Originally posted by godoncrack
peace or death
it's looking that way. many on both sides seem to have chosen death - unfortunately, the israeli government appear to fall into this category. the new palestinian government haven't had time to show what eventuality they support.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2003, 21:40   #47
godoncrack
Forum King
 
godoncrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: http://www.mossad.gov.il
Posts: 2,135
in the palestinian's eyes : the isrealis and americans are terrorists
in the isreali's eyes : its palestinians
and didn't we send the same message:
"DON'T FUCK WITH US"
when we went for afganistand?
and i'm pretty sure the same goes for Iraq.
we took down the most powerful arabs in the region like it was a cakewalk
yeah, we pissed away the prizes:
osama, saddam, and friends
but the message was clear
peace or death
godoncrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2003, 21:42   #48
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
the message sounded a lot more like "no peace", to me.

*shrug*

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2003, 21:44   #49
godoncrack
Forum King
 
godoncrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: http://www.mossad.gov.il
Posts: 2,135
kick a dog enough, and he'll lie down for ya
hell
he might even do some tricks
godoncrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2003, 22:22   #50
Namelessv1
Forum King
 
Namelessv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
Originally posted by godoncrack
in the palestinian's eyes : the isrealis and americans are terrorists
in the isreali's eyes : its palestinians
and didn't we send the same message:
"DON'T FUCK WITH US"
when we went for afganistand?
and i'm pretty sure the same goes for Iraq.
we took down the most powerful arabs in the region like it was a cakewalk
yeah, we pissed away the prizes:
osama, saddam, and friends
but the message was clear
peace or death
The primary reason for the military operation in Afghanistan was to apprehend Osama bin Laden. He had been operating out of Afghanistan for the past several years. Obviously the Taliban would not extridite him, therefore the use of force was needed. Now of course, it is not that easy to catch one of the world's most infamous terrorists who has a cult-like following in countless nations around the world.

The operation in Iraq, imo, was because of the games that Saddam Hussein was playing with the UN weapons inspectors. For a period of about 4 years, the UN weapons inspectors were kicked out of Iraq. Who knows what the hell he was doing in that 4 year time span. He may not have had fully operational "WMD's," but he had components that could be used in NBC warfare such as his illegel scud missiles. Although it would have been better if the US had taken down the Hussein regime when the US had more international support, including a strong Arab coalition, it ,nonetheless, needed to done.

I think it was more than just "DON'T FUCK WITH US" and "peace or death."
Namelessv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2003, 22:45   #51
godoncrack
Forum King
 
godoncrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: http://www.mossad.gov.il
Posts: 2,135
You quote almost verbatim what is on MSNBC.
If it were all true, osama would long be dead, saddam would have been outsted in the first gulf war, and we would have no problems right now.
IF it were all true.
godoncrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 07:28   #52
marvinbarcelona
Major Dude
 
marvinbarcelona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: m/cr, UK
Posts: 1,143
Quote:
Originally posted by Dawg4Life2K1

The operation in Iraq, imo, was because of the games that Saddam Hussein was playing with the UN weapons inspectors. For a period of about 4 years, the UN weapons inspectors were kicked out of Iraq. Who knows what the hell he was doing in that 4 year time span. He may not have had fully operational "WMD's," but he had components that could be used in NBC warfare such as his illegel scud missiles. Although it would have been better if the US had taken down the Hussein regime when the US had more international support, including a strong Arab coalition, it ,nonetheless, needed to done.

I think it was more than just "DON'T FUCK WITH US" and "peace or death."
This was started because, we were told, Iraq was a clear and present danger to the world. We were told he had stock piles of WMB that could be actived in 45 minutes. As we now know, this was a lie. Now the accusations have changed, we are no longer looking for WMDs, just the components. But we haven't found any of those either.

The US & UK goverments appeal for more time to find evidence of WMD, they are appealing for the time that they would not give the weapons inspectors. The simple fact is, there were no WMD and there were no WMD programs (they ended after the first Gulf War). This war was started for power, the power of the US to intimidate any other country that dared step out of line with it's policies. Remember, Saddam Hussein was a good mass murdering dictator while he was an allie to the US.

Regarding the weapons inspectors. FACT : they were not kicked out of Iraq, they left. They left because the US & UK were about to commence bombing. The "they were kicked out" lie was perportrated by the media who were too lazy to do real reporting and was never corrected by goverments because they found it a conveinant lie.

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
marvinbarcelona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 07:31   #53
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
Regarding the weapons inspectors. FACT : they were not kicked out of Iraq, they left. They left because the US & UK were about to commence bombing. The "they were kicked out" lie was perportrated by the media who were too lazy to do real reporting and was never corrected by goverments because they found it a conveinant lie.
they were advised to leave, yes. and when was this poorly reported? but i'd say that bombing the country would probably constitute kicking them out by proxy anyway.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 11:53   #54
Khaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 171
Send a message via ICQ to Khaine
Quote:
Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
The first step has to come from the Israelis. Why? Because they have the military strength to withstand any attack from the Palestinians, where as the Palestinians can in no way resist an Israeli attack. So, if the Israelis pull back to their borders that were sanctioned by the UN, then the Palestinians would have no justification to attack them.
This had been tried, and some extremists blew up a bus full of civilians runing the peace process

The same thing occurs in Northern Ireland. The simple fact is, their are some people on this earth who do not deserve to live, and conversely some who died that deserved life. But its not our decision to deal out death, rather it is our responsability to ensure that peace is preserved by sending in peace keepers. Isreal and Palistine are two caught up with hatred of each other; a third party like the UN is required to restore peace and calm, to get both sides to see the truth of the situation. Many wrongs have been done by both sides, many cannot be undone; instead of remembering the past both sides must look to the future and see hope and peace, not death and distruction.
Khaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 18:19   #55
marvinbarcelona
Major Dude
 
marvinbarcelona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: m/cr, UK
Posts: 1,143
I agreed. This is surely the one instance when the UN could be used to g/tee the borders of both Israel and Palestine. Slowly, over a number of years, those troops could be withdrawn. I say slowly becuase, lets be honest, this situation will take years to resolve fully, maybe even generations.

Might also be worth having NATO g/tee the borders of both countries from outside aggressers

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
marvinbarcelona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 22:18   #56
godoncrack
Forum King
 
godoncrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: http://www.mossad.gov.il
Posts: 2,135
response from sharon and arafat:HELL NO!!!!!!!!!
godoncrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2003, 05:39   #57
02Pete
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 2
Under heavy American diplomatic pressure several years ago, Israel undertook prolonged negotiations with the Palestinians and offered a settlement which would have included national recognition, control over extensive territory, and shared jurisdiction over Jerusalem. The Palestinians did not simply reject the offer, identify specific additional items which they would need to see included in a settlement to consider it acceptable, or demand that negotiations continue toward a different solution. Instead, they opened a campaign of terrorist bombings which, to date, have exclusively targeted civilians. Almost all of these bombings targeting civilians have occurred within the territory which the UN has recognized as being within the boundaries of Israel. When the US pushed for a road map to move from the current violence toward peace, Yasir Arafat undercut the process by refusing to turn control of Palestinian Authority security services to Mahmoud Abbas, rendering him powerless to rein in ongoing terrorist attacks by Hamas. Basically, Hamas and other Palestinian groups have declared war on Israel, repeatedly targeting indiscriminate mass attacks against purely civilian targets. Under these circumstances, criticizing Israel for making narrowly targeted attacks against individual Hamas leaders offers very little in the way of moral persuasion. If the Palestinians want the Israelis to stop striking Hamas leaders, they should stop Hamas from making terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians.
02Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump