Old 23rd August 2012, 14:40   #1
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Shoutcast playlist.

Our radio is looking for a PHP script to get a full playlist from autoDJ & liveDJs.
We need the playlist for GEMA (to give a credit to musicians), its official and It should be full (tracklength, times, "played" counter).

Is there something that can gather all the data from shoutcast ?
Currently it shows only the last 10 songs and there is no option to save it into a playlist.

And all scripts what we found are designed for showing the current song, not for saving the playlist.

P.S.: sry for my english.


P.P.S: other question, is there a easier way to stream with Traktor Pro to shoutcast ?
My current system looks like this > Traktor Pro > Icecast server > Stream Transcoder V3 > Shoutcast server.
So i got a huge delay, up to 80sec.
Currently looking for an easier system, maybe all-in-1 tool to pick up the icecast stream from Traktor Pro and stream this to shoutcast... Titlestreaming is important and its the only way i know how it works with Traktor & shoutcast..
cryonic is offline  
Old 23rd August 2012, 21:04   #2
metal4radio
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 17
I am not sure what kind of webradio you are running but if it's a normal German webradio station you don't need to send this list to GEMA. The GVL is asking for something like that but as it says in the contract: If you are not able (e.g. for technical reasons) to provide this list you can be freed from it. Usually you'd ask to be freed from it when filling out the contract - every station I know has done that.

As for your stream setup: Using Shoutcast v2 with Transcoder v2 would be way easier, more professional and doesn't need a tenth of the resources the streamtranscoder v3 alone uses.

If you really want to do it your way you'd need to setup not only a PHP script but also a database to store the information.
metal4radio is offline  
Old 24th August 2012, 13:38   #3
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
They dont ask, but we should have the playlist ready if they ask.
I`m just a DJ, its not my radio - so i have to use what other people set up. The current problem - i got the titlestreaming working, but the station owner wants that playlist (not only for GEMA & GVL, listener should see the entire playlist for the current show, not only the last 10 tracks played).

I dont have access to the server, i`m just trying to find a working script/database/whatever to gather all the data from shoutcast.
Now we use a manually created playlist which also affects the ticker on the homepage, but there should be an easier way..

And Streamtranscoder v2 wasnt working on my PC, V3.1.11 VIP is working fine.
The resources are not the problem, i use my laptop for DJing (Traktor) and my PC as Icecast server/restreamer. no problems so far, but i dont know how to lower the delay between my DJ software and the shoutcast server/clients who get the stream. If there is an option to decrease the delay to 100-200ms, that will be great. Even if this cost some resources.
cryonic is offline  
Old 24th August 2012, 13:50   #4
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
SHOUTcast/Icecast are a buffered system and with all of the steps going on, the introduced buffer delay is going to get worse with the more steps in place.

unless you're using software / players which write or provide the means to query the played titles, there's not too much that i'm aware off which can be changed with your setup to get the information unless you or the station start pulling the song history from the DNAS to determine and then store the history.

if the station wants to have more tracks shown then they can always change the songhistory configuration option in the DNAS's configuration to be more than the default of 10.

-daz
DrO is offline  
Old 24th August 2012, 17:45   #5
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Its not only the last shown tracks, we need a database with all the playlists.
For me its easy because Traktor has a built in history, i can export a nice playlist with all the data (played count, bitrate, key, rating, title, release, artist whatever). But we try to get a userfriendly all-in-1 solution for all DJs with different soft/hardware & settings.

Is there an option to gather artist & title infos from shoutcast-server and store it in a database ?
And i`m still searching for the way how shoutcast work with the audiostream. Its only 128kbps, with the modern hardware & huge bandwith it should work with a minimal delay.
If my DJ laptop can work with up to 4 tracks (lossless WMA/FLAC) with a 5ms latency,so for what that huge delay ?
cryonic is offline  
Old 24th August 2012, 22:46   #6
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryonic View Post
For me its easy because Traktor has a built in history, i can export a nice playlist with all the data (played count, bitrate, key, rating, title, release, artist whatever). But we try to get a userfriendly all-in-1 solution for all DJs with different soft/hardware & settings.
based on other stations, you basically need to implement or use a setup someone has already made as none of this is natively possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cryonic View Post
Is there an option to gather artist & title infos from shoutcast-server and store it in a database ?
other than polling the DNAS or doing it at the source level (which is basically what the suggestions above my post are doing), the tools do not natively provide any logging to a database. i have thought it might be an idea to add some sort of now playing logging to the DNAS but that would not be to a db, just a text file i think which can then be processed afterwards (though the actual format to use for the file isn't something i've thought about as it would need to be done so it's easily parsed by other tools).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cryonic View Post
And i`m still searching for the way how shoutcast work with the audiostream. Its only 128kbps, with the modern hardware & huge bandwith it should work with a minimal delay.
If my DJ laptop can work with up to 4 tracks (lossless WMA/FLAC) with a 5ms latency,so for what that huge delay ?
if you're doing Traktor Pro > Icecast server > Stream Transcoder V3 > Shoutcast server then you're definitely going to have buffering in the Icecast server as well as the SHOUTcast server as that is done to deal with network delays and provide a more consistent stream to clients. the Stream Transcoder V3 stage also introduces a delay (how much i don't know as i've not used it). so yes things can be done with a low latency but bear in mind when these stream types were created and broadband was not the common so buffering was needed (and still is what with the rise of mobile devices).

-daz
DrO is offline  
Old 24th August 2012, 22:18   #7
Dj Mambito
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Maybe you have not thought of:

1)

If you prepare your playlist before it airs
then you can add it to the station-website as a html/txt/pdf file
so your listeners can see the whole list at any time or even at days later.

I myself dont see that as usefull...i think all that counts is show the current track being played and maybe the last 10 so a listener can have some guess/impression of what is going to come and choose to go listen to your station (or not).

2)

You can use "streamripper" (Google it) to rip (record) all tracks being played, it will:
* separate each track.
* add artist,track filename to it (from the iD-tag)
* add the current time of the day to it.
* add a number to it.

It saves all above to one folder..where you can sort by title,time...etc

Normaly "streamripper" is used by those that want to record (steal) our music
using it like this is the only positive use i can imagine for it.

I use this myself to verify if my autodj-playlist is playing correctly
i can also see if my stream was interrupted.

.
Dj Mambito is offline  
Old 25th August 2012, 10:36   #8
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Preparated playlist is not possible because i do this as a live DJ (with club-style hardware & Traktor Pro, thats why i got some "problems" - the streaming software, clients & server are still not really adapted to highend soft&hardware for DJs).

Streamripper will generate a huge traffic, we just need a simple playlist - database will be nice, if this is only a .txt, that will work too. And we want the playlist live on our homepage, updated with every single track. And we need this working 24/7 without adjustments for different DJs, autoDJ and some extras like which DJ played what.

@DrO

If there is an option to generate some sort of logging based on DNAS or on the stream (as client connected to the shoutcast server), that will be great. We are happy if we get a simple playlist, because all that options what i usually use for my playlists - they are simply not implemented..
My current playlist looks like:
Artist, Title, Release, Label, Rating, Bitrate, Key, Filepath, Played count, Date added (to software), BPM, Gain level.
I know its impossible to get all that infos on shoutcast, but i will be happy if we get it in the near future..
cryonic is offline  
Old 25th August 2012, 18:44   #9
metal4radio
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 17
When I said "transcoder v2" I meant shoutcast transcoder v2. "streamtranscoder" is something entirely different and THERE the v2 seriously sucks . Currently you have 5 steps to deliver music to the listener.

1) Traktor uses buffering to deliver a stable stream
2) icecast itself barely increase the latency but as daz said it does
3) streamtranscoder v3 uses a lot of CPU time to reencode the stream which causes most of the latency of the stream delivery
4) shoutcast doesnt add much but like icecast does a bit
5) the player the listener is using does some buffering as well to make sure the listener can listen to an uninterrupted stream. how many seconds depends on the player and its settings

Throwing away the antique setup and using Shoutcast DNAS Server and Shoutcast DNAS Transcoder, both in v2, you can reduce the latency of the stream itself to the technically possible minimum.
The shoutcast transcoder v2 uses way less CPU time and is much faster, smoother and more stable than streamtranscoder.
metal4radio is offline  
Old 25th August 2012, 21:42   #10
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
The CPU load is not a problem, because Traktor is running on my laptop, icecast & streamtranscoder on my PC (only with fullHD screen & webcam capture i got some noticeable problems with that setup).

I will try it, I was just hoping for a solution to bring the entire buffering system down and run with a max 200ms latency (so i can see if something goes wrong instantly). No chance to get it, even with VirtualDJ which can stream to shoutcast by itself.
Even there the delay is over 20sec between VirtualDJ and a client connected to shoutcast.

But that is not the main problem - its working fine, i just dont like the huge delay.

The main problem is the playlist thing, i still have no idea to get this done without writing a script (and that will take months, we need it yesterday^^)...
cryonic is offline  
Old 25th August 2012, 21:55   #11
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryonic View Post
I will try it, I was just hoping for a solution to bring the entire buffering system down and run with a max 200ms latency (so i can see if something goes wrong instantly). No chance to get it, even with VirtualDJ which can stream to shoutcast by itself.
Even there the delay is over 20sec between VirtualDJ and a client connected to shoutcast.
200ms is never going to be something you're going to get with the setup you're using. it's not even viable when doing just Source -> DNAS -> Client since as i've said, the protocol is designed to buffer things and the only way to lessen that is to stream at higher bitrates just to fill and churn through the buffer size faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cryonic View Post
The main problem is the playlist thing, i still have no idea to get this done without writing a script (and that will take months, we need it yesterday^^)...
loads of people think x,y and z should have been in place for years but it's hard to do it when you have a small team or even no team at all (as sadly was the case for a while) so hopefully there will the time to allocate to working on such things. however as it's saturday night and i'm working on other things, you may be right with the 'months' aspect.

-daz
DrO is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 00:52   #12
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Mhhh OK. Shoutcast feels a bit like a dinosaur, teleported into 2012.
Missing some basic functions, but there is no real alternative to it.

I hope Winamp and Shoutcast will grow into something like Ableton Live - huge power, flexible and always up to date and not years behind other programms that should work together^^

If someone has working solution for the playlist problem, i will be happy to hear about it.
cryonic is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 00:54   #13
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryonic View Post
Mhhh OK. Shoutcast feels a bit like a dinosaur, teleported into 2012.
Missing some basic functions, but there is no real alternative to it.
you've got my ear, please explain / quantify what you think is missing, etc. and yes there probably are things which should be added but it's whether cost of the time involved in doing things fits with what is wanted by those paying for the tools to be developed (as a lot of what i've got added and upcoming probably wouldn't have been done normally under the normal setup of how things are chosen). and with that, i'm now going to get some sleep as i'm done coding and testing DNAS updates for today.

and from a quick look for 'Ableton Live' shows me a product being sold from $449 and up - the SHOUTcast tools are provided for free so there is going to be a disparity unless you want to pay that much to use the DNAS, etc and then yes i've no problem coding in some of the most spurious of requests (and then sit back and watch as the bloat complaints come through like i've seen from Winamp features which add just one check box and a few lines of code to a dialog and it's instantly 'bloat' *shrugs*)

-daz
DrO is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 01:06   #14
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Userfriendly plugin support, all with graphical GUI.
Something like a VST for the DAW software - third party software, you copy the file, scan for it, register it and it works.
Full support for all versions of DJ & Producer software like Serato (all 3 products with different versions), Traktor LE/Pro/Scratch Pro (same here, all products), Ableton Live and about 15 other DJ programms what people use right now (they are just good, thats why people use it, the only problem - missing support for broadcasting, even if they got that option, its not really good - Traktor with Icecast & Ogg streaming only is a good example).

Full support for DJ hardware - reading ID3 tags from CD-decks.
A client with full ASIO, Core Audio, WASAPI driver support (all low latency), MIDI, HID (next step, 14bit MIDI resolution), and many other stuff - there are just too much stuff what came in the last 3-5 years.

Depends on what hard&software people use, there are so many options & problems to get it all set up right on 1 server without a lot of functions, its not really plug & play...
In the last month i was configuring my software setup & shoutcast longer, than my show goes...
cryonic is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 01:23   #15
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
i think you're confusing yourself as what you're talking about is more about the source side of things rather than the platform of the tools overall as the tone of your comment implied the platform as a whole. if they don't support the SHOUTcast protocol then there's really not much which can be done about it on our side of the fence.


"ASIO, Core Audio, WASAPI driver support" would have no effect on the official tools, especially with lowering latency as that has nothing to do with the specific buffers which are in place in the DNAS and Transcoder, etc and those are to do with audio output and nothing to do with SHOUTcast itself and is something that is down to the client software to make use off, not us directly. and really having a low latency on the output is all fine but if as you've found you have a 20sec+ delay on the stream, low latency client audio output is a negligible concern.


really, out of what you've said, the only area i think that may have some possibility of happening (including the playlist logging aspect already mentioned as something i was considering to try to get time allocated to implement) would be being able to use Traktor as a source though that would then imply Ogg Vorbis stream support being added to the DNAS, Transcoder and Source DSP. everything else i think is outside the realm of what the official tools and SHOUTcast platform as a whole are about as what is provided is either the means to be listed or is a source which is good enough to do the key aspect of broadcasting, but most of what you wanted i think just doesn't fit in with the aim of the tools or just is not worth the time vs return on investment.


from what i can tell, most of the issues you have is down to a disparity in 3rd party solutions on what they do and do not offer you as a user and how that fits into the overall flow from audio creation to listener enjoyment. the general impression i get is you're wanting all the bells and whistles which is something you only tend to find on the paid for source software as that's what they are all about (which probably won't do everything you want as everyone focuses on different things) and that's not what the official tools are ever intended as being.

-daz
DrO is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 01:45   #16
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
I`m just waiting for a tool that can work with all the different DJ & Producer stuff, what will be always up to date (due the major changes and nearly weekly updates on the third party software) and what will make things easier.
Dont configurate the shoutcast-server for each user with all that different hard&software setups, its easier to make a client what will adjust the server settings for the current user.

If a software cannot broadcast, it will be great to have a client that can grab the audio stream (some sort of VirtualCable or just an audio output), grab the metadata out of the software (title, artist, times, other useful stuff), add his own metadata (DJ, show description, other personal data) and stream all of this to the shoutcast server without changing his configuration.
cryonic is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 21:38   #17
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
so one software to do everything in the software and hardware realm and do it automatically. i'm sorry but that's really not going to be feasible especially from a free product on our side. there's nothing stopping it from happening from a 3rd party solution, but not as part of the official tools to my knowledge.

i can see what you're trying to achieve / want and probably most of it can be done at the moment but it requires a number of software stages as well as some custom software - especially in the case of capturing audio from programs which cannot broadcast which would generally be a heavily customised virtualcable-like software.

-daz
DrO is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 23:33   #18
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Capturing audio is really easy. Almost everything designed for DJs has multiple outputs, record/booth out, some software has even a built in virtual cable to synchronise it with other software if the software support this (Here comes the MIDI into play, MIDI Clock is the key).
The main problem is - how to get metadata out of the software ?
Traktor is pretty nice, it has a built in "master" function, that set 1 track to master and send that data, even with 3 other tracks running at the same time.

My prefered setup is Traktor Pro + Ableton Live (sound from Traktor routed through Ableton, works great with an 40ms overall latency), but there is no way to get anything more than just a pure analog sound signal out of it. So i need a third party tool to stream this.
edCast worked fine for it, but i need the Titlestreaming.

Thats why i`m searching for a tool that can do it without my help.

But as i can see, there is no such tool right now, not even an expensive one.

That leaves the main problem - how can i get a working playlist/logfile out of Shoutcast ?
cryonic is offline  
Old 26th August 2012, 23:41   #19
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryonic View Post
That leaves the main problem - how can i get a working playlist/logfile out of Shoutcast ?
as i already said, you'd have to poll the DNAS for the current song and / or the song history and process that appropriately into a database or whatever it needs to go into. that is how i'm aware of other stations having done the same thing though what they have actually used i cannot say.

additionally increasing the size of the song history recorded by the DNAS may help. otherwise you could do something like parsing the log files for title updates and dumping them out (which then allows for retroactive tracking of titles before a new setup is implemented for the station).

-daz
DrO is offline  
Old 29th August 2012, 00:14   #20
cryonic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17
Can be closed.
Switched to Icecas2 (was way easier to set up) and it has a built in playlist.log (simple, not very beautiful, but it does what we need) and some other features.
Testing it right now, if the configuration is stable, it will replace shoutcast.

I hope shoutcast will be upgraded in the near future, to make it userfriendly with a nice graphical interface and easy to configurate for anyone with a simple token system (maybe the same like TeamSpeak3 token system - once added, you got your admin status, the only thing for what you need access to the server is start/stop & basic config for the first time)..
cryonic is offline  
Closed Thread
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Shoutcast > Shoutcast Technical Support

Tags
php, playlist, script

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump