Old 25th February 2010, 16:24   #1
Arturro K.
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Is it possible in milkdrop ?

Hi guys! Greetings from Poland!

Im currenty making some remixes of many presets founded on the web (some of the E.O.S, Zylot, Goody, Rovastar, Krash, Geiss, Martin, Aderrasi, Dbleja, Phat, Flexi, Yin and many others) You can checkout one of the previews in HD at youtube.com/watch?v=OHN6BqXz4iw (watch?v=OHN6BqXz4iw)

I will be releasing whole preset remix pack soon... currently I think sooner than June 1st - maybe in March/April. There will be something like 50+ remixes.

Im not a coder, my maths aint that good as I would like so i've got a question about some visuals I founded on the YouTube.

First is: youtube.com/watch?v=YOTcwXXHILM (in case of URL problem - watch?v=YOTcwXXHILM)
Checkout how cool it looks from 0:00 to 0:50 on this big screen.

Second one: youtube.com/watch?v=0i9lzfr61MM (watch?v=0i9lzfr61MM)
This lightning is very very cool... and Im desperatly in need of something like that.

I know that those visuals @Armin Only 2008 - they are 99% not milkdrop presets... probably some more advanced visual software & VJ person.

So my question is: is it possible to create such visuals in milkdrop or maybe someone made already something similar to those two links above?

Or maybe it is also possible to create shapes like those:
gallery.mobile9.com/f/666442/
cartalongbaby.com/shop/images/Disco%20Dots%20Brown.jpg
They would only need to flash little bit, like in the disco.

What tutorial/manual should I read & learn, or maybe there is someone that would help me with achieving that sort of results?

Im a beginner dj and at the end of may 2010 I will have a chance to do a whole night gig and I really wouldnt like to have a simple lines etc. on the plasma behind me.
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Old 25th February 2010, 17:26   #2
Nitorami
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Hi Arturro

1. These examples look really quite outdated. I think your PC may be a bit old and have a shader1 video card only, so milkdrop will only let you select the old shader1 presets. Get a reasonable gamers video card which can handle shader2, get the latest presets from the forum and have your head blown off.

2. It is quite unlikely there is a more advanced visualiser than milkdrop available. Much better lightning effects than these can easily be done with milkdrop.

3. I need to critisize your sample video youtube.com/watch?v=OHN6BqXz4iw. If you want to do a whole night gig you should learn which presets to use when, and how and when to change them. Milkdrops strength is that it offers a vast variety of different presets for different music styles. In this example, at 1:42 LATEST, you should change to a more lively video !

See here how to do it (ok this is cut, and his PC stutters a bit, but anyway)
http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnex...&v=HzfFGwJ7sF0

4. Before you bore your audience with self programmed old fashioned effects I really suggest you get yourself a decent PC which can handle the existing presets, and use these. Focus on your gig and not on milkdrop programming !

Regards
Martin
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Old 25th February 2010, 18:36   #3
Arturro K.
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Martin... mate, relax!

If it is so possible to do even better things then why anybody didnt make such good presets? I mean really good ones. Or maybe I missed something due to IP ban on the forums...

My laptop is HP 6735s with intergrated ati radeon HD 3200. I do not plan to update my configuration. I recently updated my ram memory up to 4GB and thats it. No plans for buying new laptop etc. for this year. Maybe in 2011.

The preset I've mixed is good for slow moments in track, I have also few mixes that are more dynamic - so dont worry.
I didnt change the presets when the track was playing because I wanted to show just this one preset... not some visual mix etc.

"Get a reasonable gamers video card which can handle shader2, get the latest presets from the forum and have your head blown off."

What latest presets You mean ? I recently saw Your Stormy Sea and it's good - it's very cool that its using opengl (hope Im not wrong) but I think it is ment to be displayed on home PC... not in the club.

To be really honest, I've downloaded something like 8000+ presets completed in one big pack. There were maybe something like less than 100 good ones... to further mix - not to play as they come. Especially not to play with progressive trance/trance/house...

I've packed few of my remixes in the .zip. I hope they will run on Your computer with no problems - just to show You guys something more than this one preset in the video.

They ofcourse still need some work.

=> www50.zippyshare.com/v/32919385/file.html
OR => mediafire.com/?mjzztdxnjaa

Download those 7 and then say something

Regards,
Arturro K.

Edit: I will recheck the presets forum. Just found some of the presets by Martin that I didnt had earlier!

Last edited by Arturro K.; 25th February 2010 at 19:15.
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Old 25th February 2010, 21:13   #4
Flexi
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I've packed another best-of pack lately. have fun with these presets: download
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Old 25th February 2010, 21:16   #5
Arturro K.
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O man... thats a lot of presets... I mean... A LOT

Thanks for this!!! Im gonna try to do my best with remixing as many as I can.
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Old 25th February 2010, 22:07   #6
Nitorami
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Arturro

Sorry if I sounded harsh - no offense. I just wasn't too impressed by the video, not by its content neither the missing beat reaction, neither by the links which pointed me to pictures of boring circles. I don't mind old skool but to me that looked really stale so I thought you were
still with shader 1.

I admit I have no experience with what would be appropriate in a club atmosphere. Your mixes look quite well composed and tasteful; No. 2 has a very good beat reaction, No.7 may be too flashy when shown on a big screen; but altogether they are composed of well known effects I have seen many times before - maybe too often - , and in my personal view they don't stick out above many others.

"To be really honest, I've downloaded something like 8000+ presets completed in one big pack. There were maybe something like less than 100 good ones... to further mix"

Ok fine, but then your quality criterion seems to escape me, and I don't know how to be of any help ? I mean if you feel you cannot use the existing visuals, what exactly is the problem ? If you want some flashing disco dots, you certainly demonstrated with your mixes that you have the ability to go ahead and program them... so what do you need ?
As to tutorials, Geiss' "preset authoring guide" comes packed with milkdrop. It is certainly still the basic textbook.

Regards
Martin
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Old 26th February 2010, 00:37   #7
Arturro K.
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No problemo

No. 7 is flashy indeed but it is good for track called - system f - out of the blue 2010 (laidback luke remix)

I would like to compose something like Armin van Buuren's lightning (visual for sia - the girl you lost to cocaine) which would act like his... but my skill in programming is... zero or almost zero so I am looking for any similar presets which I could mix with other that I have and maybe with a bit of luck Ill get what I need.

The one and only problem with lets say - simple but good presets is when people are seeing it on the plasma in the club they think "ow sh... man, he have winamp there?" - and I dont want that kind of reaction from my public You know... I just want to be full pro, give the public best beats that I know and best visual effects that I can do by myself (without the vj man) and the reaction I would like to build in people who will come to see me is "OMG, this guy is f...... amazing" Thats my goal

I will try to read and understant the preset authoring guide and I hope it will help me... but as I said - I was always bad... very bad when it comes to programming
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Old 28th February 2010, 21:09   #8
Nitorami
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Arturro

I see. You'd like to use milkdrop but without anyone noticing it is milkdrop.

Not that I want to discourage you but your chances of producing anything better than available by May are close to zero, considering your programming skills which you claim to be almost zero.

BTW MD is not OpenGL but uses HLSL (High Level Shader Language). For a full reference see http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...8VS.85%29.aspx

I have two questions:
I have no experience in DJing but why would you need "simple" visuals in a club ? What is the difference between a visual played privately and in a club ?
Instead of trying to copy "Armin 2008", shouldn't you go for your own style and try something new ?

Regards
Martin
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Old 1st March 2010, 17:02   #9
Arturro K.
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Here are Your answers:

Quote:
I have no experience in DJing but why would you need "simple" visuals in a club ? What is the difference between a visual played privately and in a club ?
Well, when Youre a DJ You can do everything that You want and give the public whats in Your mind. The difference between visual played privately and in a club is from my perspective - just one. Many visuals that I've seen You guys maded are good when it comes to the shapes and behaviour of the visual. But in my opinion they ain't so pretty as they should to entertain the public and to fill the gap in the music that dj is playing. And so one You can play them on Your PC, not in the club. You can disagree with this and it's OK, because there is also one big detail - it depends what music the dj is playing. When You playing something like hip-hop, d&b or psychodelic trance - then those presets that You guys maded are good... I think But as for me (trance lover) they're not so hot as they should. So as for me - they are good base, to make some better presets.

As for me the main goal is to give the public best quality - sound & visual. It's hard for someone that is just starting in the industry to lets say have very professional VJ software and best DJ hardware at once - because it's very expensive. So Im trying to find some solution to give the public best experience but also to not pay many $$$ which I dont have that much.

Quote:
Instead of trying to copy "Armin 2008", shouldn't you go for your own style and try something new ?
Yes You're right, but those examples I've provided are just like a inspiration for me. DJ/VJ style is something that is forming in long long time and as for this moment Im in need of something that I think will do the job. So one again - Yes You're right - I should not copy Armin 2008 visuals and I dont want to be honest with You, but I would like to have something similar to his visuals and now Im trying to make such presets.

As a future DJ I think there will be lot of work during ~8 hour party and Im afraid I cant be a DJ and a VJ in one time, so my choice as for now is to make some better visuals and try to do the show with them.

PS. Sorry for my bad english.

Regards,
Arturro K.
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Old 1st March 2010, 18:56   #10
Nitorami
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Understood. I agree that visuals do not match every music stlye. I used to write my presets with specific music and often found them to look "wrong" with other rhythms.

But then, there are days where virtually every coloured pattern takes me to trance, and there are other days where these visuals are just flickering patterns getting on my bloody nerves.

Therefore I don't really trust the concept of "quality" of visuals. I have programmed presets for more than 2 years, and still it depends entirely on my mood whether I like them or not. Sometimes they are the best I've ever seen, sometimes I think they are total crap... they don't get the rhythm right, they flash when they shouldn't etc. Makes me angry at times.
It depends on the ambience, the mood, the day I had in the office, the right music at the right moment, whether I am tired, had drugs etc. Maybe the moon. What I want to say is that my own brain is just not reliable when it comes to an "objective" judgement.

Getting philosophical... I just feel I should warn you of too high expectations about what can be done. Milkdrop has technical limitations, but the major limitation of experience may be in your own mind, not in milkdrop.

Well go ahead, it may be worth a try, even though milkdrop is definitely not a VJ software. The first problem is that is does not take any user input except for changing the preset. I think I remember a few guys working on a Wii input, but only for the old milkdrop version which is open source.

Regards
Martin

Last edited by Nitorami; 1st March 2010 at 19:30.
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Old 1st March 2010, 20:56   #11
hexcollie
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flexi
I've packed another best-of pack lately. have fun with these presets: download
I really like what you've done to the sacred leaf preset you made, in the main directory of the .zip

^_^ Don't Panic!! ^_^
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Old 1st March 2010, 21:00   #12
Arturro K.
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Martin - You're one of those guys with big potential in programming good presets. I think that You will have Your day in the future - thats sure and I hope to see some cool stuff from You

Milkdrop indeed have some limitations... some of them can be real pain like minimal support for text input via keyboard and as for shapes etc. hmm yup, here also.

But I think that impossible is nothing and You're a living proof that Im right. I saw Your "rogue wave - ps2/ps3" - awesome stuff You can make with the milkdrop mate - I thought that making such presets are impossible and what a supprise

Simple presets can be also very nice. Currently Im trying to make something like lasers - checkout the attachement. This version is hmm crapy one, I will need to work on it more. I think people would be happy to see something like this but it need some adjustments in behavior & movement.
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Old 1st March 2010, 21:04   #13
Arturro K.
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I've made also second version of those lasers - they flash better but the movement is still crapy.

Generally thats something that would be good for trance music. And when Im saying trance I think: W&W vs Jonas Stenberg - Alligator Fuckhouse (Original Mix)


Edit: www24.zippyshare.com/v/23721930/file.html - mp3 file - Alligator Fuckhouse (Original Mix).
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Old 1st March 2010, 22:24   #14
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Fill up that space.

I tried to stay true to your original intent, as much as my easily distracted mind was able to....

::Distraction > Efficiency::

::Guava Juice::

::What the door-mouse said::

^_^ Don't Panic!! ^_^
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Old 2nd March 2010, 21:42   #15
Nitorami
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arturro K.
I've made also second version of those lasers - they flash better but the movement is still crapy.

Generally thats something that would be good for trance music. And when Im saying trance I think: W&W vs Jonas Stenberg - Alligator Fuckhouse (Original Mix)


Edit: www24.zippyshare.com/v/23721930/file.html - mp3 file - Alligator Fuckhouse (Original Mix).
Yeah, I think the mix goes back on Phat_Zylot_Eo.S. work with lines.milk... not always possible to trace the original, but I remember I was quite impressed when I saw it the first time. Definitely a good effect by simple means, albeit the movement is repetitive and quickly predictable.

Movement is a difficult issue. I tried a lot to react to beats, or to predict beats, but the possibilities are very limited. For instance in your mp3, I would like the lasers to stop and have some slow movement between approximately 3:12 and 3:25, however this is not feasible, and I don't think it's a problem of milkdrop, it would require quite significant intelligence to handle that properly. That's where the VJ need to come in.

In your mix I don't like the background pixels. There is no antialiasing, you can see them jump from pixel to pixel during slow movements - that's 1980s technology, and we should have got rid of is long ago. I guess they are still in to maintain compatibility.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 10:03   #16
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yeah, thats from Phat and Eo.S. Don't get caught, you must know he's very touchy when it comes to not crediting his work... anyway the preset looks promising for showing it in a club, but as Martin said, Mildrop is not made for VJs.

@Martin: you perfectionist, i like retro retro comes naturally with mash-up-art
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Old 3rd March 2010, 22:40   #17
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True, I remember Eo.S. getting really upset about somebody using her code without crediting her... fair enough.

As to this laser thingy - my feeling is that laser is always good except if you have the real thing, in which case the screen version would look quite stale. Only use laser presets if you don't have a real laser.

I played with a laser preset a while ago but never finished it. Since I like the realistic style I want
- some atmospheric background (which may not be applicable in a club)
- a realistic looking laser which can be controlled in all directions including directly into your face
- smoke: I want to see it cutting through fog
- changing patterns: flashy patterns as well as smooth circular movements, several lasers forming geometric figures, ideally automatically controlled by milkdrop... which is not possible Anyway I only got to the stage realistic laser and fog but got stuck with the movement so I suspended it.
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Old 12th November 2010, 22:34   #18
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Quote:
yeah, thats from Phat and Eo.S. Don't get caught, you must know he's very touchy when it comes to not crediting his work...
This code is officially old enough to not care in anyway... Honestly most of it I wrote as a kid and I find a lot of it rather ugly now. I don't speak for Eo.S. always when I talk (we are married but she's in the other room)but I'm pretty sure she's miles away from caring now as well...

Okay she says if you make a million dollars or something she wants some money. As that is never going to happen I'd say use our old ugly code for anything you want now.
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Old 12th November 2010, 23:02   #19
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Oh man work with lines was just something I saved because something broke while I was working on it and it looked kinda cool. It's not even something I actually spent time on, something broke and I was like 'cool' so I saved it. There's actually quite a bit of presets around here that are similar, whenever anything looked even kinda cool I would save it. Which is part of the reason there is so many.
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Old 12th November 2010, 23:19   #20
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If anyone uses my code, I'm more concerned with just crediting it inside of the code. Really that's preferred because crediting inside the preset name implies I had something to with the aesthetic appearance of the preset, which may very well not be up to my current standards, which are much higher than my standards from years ago when I was still making MD presets.

As I've become more a professional programmer and written so much code I've probably forgotten about more code than I actually remember now [hey, where did this nice little piece of code come from, oh wait, that's my code =P ]... I care more about coding recognition from coders for anything more than a couple years old, so credit inside the code is better.
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Old 12th November 2010, 23:21   #21
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I recently had a total geek programmer moment when I thought to myself how much I enjoyed writing a parser for the scripting language in a 3d visualizer we're incorporating in one of our current projects. "Yeah, writing this parser is fun" something I would never have imagined myself thinking 5+ years ago.
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Old 15th November 2010, 00:31   #22
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Writing a parser sounds pretty lame, but it may just indicate a higher level of abstraction and understanding. I'm not a professional programmer but enjoyed tinkering around, and I remember the moment when I felt how cool Delphi is, while a few years ago I never thought I'd use anything else than assembler.
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Old 15th November 2010, 05:33   #23
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Hello, I'm new here, and i have a few questions regarding what is possible when making a preset. The other day I was using winamp and had an idea of a really great preset, so i spent about an hour trying to find one like I had imagined. Sadly, I could not find one like i had imagined so I decided to create it. Here is my idea (just wondering if this is possible, or if it already exists):

The background would be a cloudy blue sky.
In the center would be a dense collection of wave lines.
Coming from the dense center would be a series of thinner lines moving upward and lines moving downward to possibly give the sensation of moving forward.
The background would be a large image so that the visualizer would only show a portion of it, and it would pan around it adding the possible sensation of flying through the clouds.

I'm new to all of this, but i would love to make something like this I would really appreciate it if someone could point me into the right direction to get started, if this is at all possible, or if this already exists.
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Old 25th November 2010, 06:01   #24
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daft_soldier: maybe try martin - no religion as a starting point? you should be able to find it in here somewhere: http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=295412
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