Old 13th January 2006, 18:00   #1
Omega X
Forum King
 
Omega X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: A Parallel Dimension
Posts: 2,252
Send a message via AIM to Omega X Send a message via Yahoo to Omega X
SWAT officer shot student

---------------------
-----------
Police: SWAT officer shot student
Florida middle school student reportedly carried gun

Friday, January 13, 2006; Posted: 1:09 p.m. EST (18:09 GMT)

LONGWOOD, Florida (AP) -- A suicidal eighth grader who pulled a handgun in class and briefly took another child hostage was shot by a SWAT team member Friday when he later threatened deputies, Seminole County officials said.

Sheriff Don Eslinger said the 15-year-old boy brought the gun to Milwee Middle School in his backpack and briefly took a fellow student hostage during a classroom scuffle.

The student then ran from the classroom and was pursued by deputies into a restroom and isolated there, Eslinger said. The school was evacuated, and no one else was injured. Officials with the sheriff's office said they had not confirmed whether the gun the boy had was real or a toy.

"At one time he held the gun to his neck. As the deputies attempted to establish dialogue, he raised the firearm and lethal force was used by the sheriff's office," Eslinger said.

The boy was taken to the hospital. His condition was unknown.

"He was suicidal," Eslinger said. "During this standoff, and during the chase, the student said he was going to kill himself or die."

Classes were canceled for the rest of the day, and frantic parents arrived to pick up their children.

"When I saw the news, I just couldn't believe this was my daughter's school. I came right away," said Anil Santos, whose daughter, Aleister, is in eighth grade.

Sarah Tivy, a seventh grader, said some students were frightened, but she appeared calm.

"I just figured that if someone is going to bring a gun to school, then they need to be taken out of school," the 12-year-old said.
---------------------------
----------------------------------
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/13/sch...ion=cnn_latest
--------------------------------------
---------------------
Omega X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2006, 20:01   #2
billyvnilly
Forum King, M.D.
 
billyvnilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Detroit burbs
Posts: 3,379
Send a message via ICQ to billyvnilly Send a message via AIM to billyvnilly
Re: SWAT officer shot student

Quote:
Originally posted by Omega X
SWAT officer shot student
more like "student dies by police assited suicide...

sadly, swat was just doing their job. I hope 15 yr olds understand the consequences of bringing a gun to school, holding someone hostage, and raising the gun against police...

they should start using robots or bullet proof shilds with less lethal weapons attached. there were other ways to end this...
billyvnilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2006, 22:57   #3
Phyltre
Forum King
 
Phyltre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Freefall
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via AIM to Phyltre Send a message via Yahoo to Phyltre
Yeah, I can't completely blame SWAT, but I don't think it's better to positively shoot a 15-year-old than to [p]possibly[/p] get shot by said kid with a gun that might not even be real.

I mean, unless the SWAT team went in there without bulletproof vests, I'd say the odds were strongly with them. Sure, one of the SWAT members might have gotten shot...and there's a small chance it might have been fatal. But the boy's 15, and that DOES make a difference. I hate to say it, but realistically, the 15 year old probably has a good deal longer to live than the SWAT. Sure, he's troubled, but anyone--ANYONE--can snap.
Phyltre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 01:21   #4
Wildrose-Wally
The Albertan
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,122
Quote:
Sure, one of the SWAT members might have gotten shot...and there's a small chance it might have been fatal. But the boy's 15, and that DOES make a difference. I hate to say it, but realistically, the 15 year old probably has a good deal longer to live than the SWAT.
You are really doing the stupid talk here. At this point the 15 year old is armed and dangerous. What if the SWAT team member he shot in your scenario was your kid?
Wildrose-Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 03:20   #5
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Hell, when I was in high school everyone had a gun or a knife. It was pretty peaceful too. I think it was the theory of mutually assured destruction.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 04:05   #6
Phyltre
Forum King
 
Phyltre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Freefall
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via AIM to Phyltre Send a message via Yahoo to Phyltre
Quote:
Originally posted by Wildrose-Wally
You are really doing the stupid talk here. At this point the 15 year old is armed and dangerous. What if the SWAT team member he shot in your scenario was your kid?
Kids get into SWAT teams? Now, if he were my SON--big difference--I would have to expect him to die, every day he went to work. (I probably wouldn't let him do it, if I had any say.) Just like driving a car--every time I get behind the wheel, I know it could very well be the death of me, because it's a major killer in the US.

If the SWAT guy isn't prepared to get shot, he probably needs to find other work. I don't think there's a draft for those positions. I mean, that sounds cruel, but it's necessarily true--they get sent into dangerous situations, because of the very danger of the situation.

(And, of course, I might point out that the 15-year-old actually IS someone's KID.)
Phyltre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 04:14   #7
mikm
Major Dude
 
mikm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 1,255
Just because a job is dangerous does not mean that you shouldn't attempt to stay alive as long as possible.

powered by C₂H₅OH
mikm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 06:04   #8
Wildrose-Wally
The Albertan
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,122
SWAT team members, like all police, are also trained to incapacitate the subject, in this case this young punk. Just because he's only 15 does not make him any less a criminal.

To incapacitate, they shoot, and they shoot at the biggest mass.

Not any police officer goes to work to die, thay are not cannon fodder, they are people with mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, wives and kids.

I value the life of a police officer far above the life of a criminal. It is the criminal who puts himself in the situation that might get him shot. If a criminal isn't prepared to get shot, he probably needs to find other work.
Wildrose-Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 07:11   #9
hgnis
Hobbit Humper
Forum King
 
hgnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: banned camp
Posts: 4,119
I would rather have an officer of the law survive not only beacue they are doing me a service but because their very existence shows that resources were not wasted on them as they were clearly being done for this stupid kid. Other people having weapons are no excuse to be bringing them or threatening others with them. You people like to say Darwin, I say Darwin indeed.

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
Realitybites
<3
hgnis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 12:46   #10
JFASI
Major Dude
 
JFASI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I was hoping you could tell me
Posts: 1,350
Legally, the action of the officer was purely and entirely within the bounds of his duty. The kid threatened them, and then he became not just a raging kid witha gun, but a threatening enemy.

On the other hand, this is a 15 year old kid. They were just not made to be shot. Nobody wanted anybody to get shot, but it happened because the situation developed.

Certified Spam Connoisseur.
JFASI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 19:13   #11
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
What I don't like sometimes is the hardware the cops carry. The normal sherriffs around here use 41 magnums with hydroshocks.

OK, so you need to shoot someone. You did not need to blow a hole in them the size of a basketball.

If you were a combatant in a war, you'd probably get shot with full metal jackets. However as civilians, we don't get the luxury of the geneva convention.

I think my Walther .380 would stop you if you were a bad guy, and you would still have a pretty good chance of survival. I know it would be easier to deliver non-lethal force. It might also be easier to "shoot to kill" because of increased accuracy.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 19:23   #12
Wildrose-Wally
The Albertan
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,122
Quote:
What I don't like sometimes is the hardware the cops carry. The normal sherriffs around here use 41 magnums with hydroshocks.
I'm quite sure the cops don't like what the criminals are carrying neither. Quite often the criminal will be better armed than the police, and this develops into a regular arms race.
Wildrose-Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 19:44   #13
JFASI
Major Dude
 
JFASI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I was hoping you could tell me
Posts: 1,350
Bzzzt!



The hardware is a tad over the top if your dealing witha 15 year old kid. In this case, it was way over the top. The SWAT men have to be armed, though. If you're facing down a drug mob or something, then you need big and powerful guns.

Certified Spam Connoisseur.
JFASI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 20:00   #14
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
Originally posted by JFASI
Bzzzt!

[Image]

The hardware is a tad over the top if your dealing witha 15 year old kid. In this case, it was way over the top. The SWAT men have to be armed, though. If you're facing down a drug mob or something, then you need big and powerful guns.
Yeah and I call bullshit on that. The last cop that died in the line of duty around here had a heart attack at his desk because he was a pudgy bastard. That was 10 years ago. Another one got picked off by a car during a traffic stop... 12 years ago?.

Only in the movies!.

And in a situation like this?. Where is the bean bag shotgun?.

All I would have carried.

Some of the police shootings here lately...

Shot an unarmed drug dealer.

Shot a 19 year old black pregnant girl for trying to book from a traffic stop.

Shot a 5' tall little pipsqueak mental patient in a MAX
SECURITY mental hospital... unarmed. The hospital was fully locked down.

Shot a mentally ill lady with a knife. A threat?. She was 40 feet away.

Uh huh?. Dirty Harry?.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 20:55   #15
Wildrose-Wally
The Albertan
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,122
The other side of the story

4 Mounties, gunman die at Alberta drug site
Suspect surrenders after Quebec police officer slain

When these officers go out on a call, they don't know what kind of weapons the criminals have, and neither do they have an arsenal truck following them so they can pick and chose what weapon to use.
They have to do with their sidearm, which has to be up to the task.
You can't expect an officer to carry everything with them, they would be so weighted down they would be unable to perform their duties.
Wildrose-Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 22:18   #16
dlinkwit27
has no CT
(Forum King)
 
dlinkwit27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,235
Send a message via ICQ to dlinkwit27 Send a message via AIM to dlinkwit27 Send a message via Yahoo to dlinkwit27
The freakin kid took a hostage! SWAT did what needed to be done and should be commended, not scolded.
dlinkwit27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 22:21   #17
mikm
Major Dude
 
mikm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 1,255
Quote:
[i]I value the life of a police officer far above the life of a criminal. It is the criminal who puts himself in the situation that might get him shot. If a criminal isn't prepared to get shot, he probably needs to find other work. [/B]

powered by C₂H₅OH
mikm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 22:52   #18
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
The freakin kid took a hostage! SWAT did what needed to be done and should be commended, not scolded.
If you will read the article, you'll see that the hostage situation was already diffused.

Also in the Canadian incident here, if you are being picked off by a sniper, fat lot of good your Dirty Harry special is gonna do.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 22:53   #19
JFASI
Major Dude
 
JFASI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I was hoping you could tell me
Posts: 1,350
Well, its official, the kid has died. And it turned out to be a pellet gun.

Certified Spam Connoisseur.
JFASI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 22:59   #20
Bilbo Baggins
Wind Chime of the Apocalypse
 
Bilbo Baggins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Forest
Posts: 17,229
Well that will teach him for being stupid enough to try and pull something like that off.
Bilbo Baggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2006, 23:06   #21
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Yeah, we need to deal with depressed 15 year olds who go nuts with a PELLET GUN by blowing them in half... just peachy....
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 04:37   #22
Phyltre
Forum King
 
Phyltre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Freefall
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via AIM to Phyltre Send a message via Yahoo to Phyltre
I'm sorry, but a 15-year-old IS NOT a "criminal". They might do illegal things, but doing adult things doesn't make you an adult.
Phyltre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 13:31   #23
JFASI
Major Dude
 
JFASI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I was hoping you could tell me
Posts: 1,350
Ok, so he would have been charged as a minor. Big deal.

Certified Spam Connoisseur.
JFASI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 14:17   #24
MidnightViper88
Made In The USA
(Forum King)
 
MidnightViper88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 502
Posts: 9,100
Send a message via AIM to MidnightViper88 Send a message via Yahoo to MidnightViper88
Quote:
Originally posted by Phyltre
I'm sorry, but a 15-year-old IS NOT a "criminal". They might do illegal things, but doing adult things doesn't make you an adult.
Someone pass the Advil, please...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
MidnightViper88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 14:47   #25
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Has anyone questioned the reasoning behind sending SOLDIERS to a school?.... and better armed than the marines?.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 15:00   #26
dlinkwit27
has no CT
(Forum King)
 
dlinkwit27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,235
Send a message via ICQ to dlinkwit27 Send a message via AIM to dlinkwit27 Send a message via Yahoo to dlinkwit27
Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
If you will read the article, you'll see that the hostage situation was already diffused.

Also in the Canadian incident here, if you are being picked off by a sniper, fat lot of good your Dirty Harry special is gonna do.
Your point? Oh well the kid let the hostage go, so now he is a peace loving hippie who only wants to hug a tree? No! I can't punch you in the face and then be like "oh, i only did it once, don't punch me back."

Fuck the kid, go SWAT
dlinkwit27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 15:39   #27
Phyltre
Forum King
 
Phyltre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Freefall
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via AIM to Phyltre Send a message via Yahoo to Phyltre
Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
Your point? Oh well the kid let the hostage go, so now he is a peace loving hippie who only wants to hug a tree? No! I can't punch you in the face and then be like "oh, i only did it once, don't punch me back."

Fuck the kid, go SWAT
Good, the kid with a pellet gun who released the hostage is braindead now, and is being kept alive so they can harvest his organs. I'm glad we settled that one.
Phyltre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 15:40   #28
JFASI
Major Dude
 
JFASI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I was hoping you could tell me
Posts: 1,350
Yeah, if the kid were to surrender the weapon and follow the orders of the SWAT team, then it would have been cool. However, he continued to be a threat to the team, the school and himself.

Certified Spam Connoisseur.
JFASI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 15:44   #29
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Re: The other side of the story

Quote:
Originally posted by Wildrose-Wally
When these officers go out on a call, they don't know what kind of weapons the criminals have, and neither do they have an arsenal ......
Yep. Some baby went crazy down at the grade school..... better call in the air strike


EDIT: Try this:

Police knew the gun wasn't real!

LONGWOOD, Florida (CNN) -- The father and brother of a teenager shot at school Friday while brandishing a pellet gun told authorities before an officer opened fire that Christopher Penley's gun was not real, the family's attorney said Saturday.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/14/teen.shot/index.html

So this becomes murder. Most of you don't remember the Kent State massacre and how for a long time after, we demilitarized the police.

How far does this have to go before we figure out that we need cops and not soldiers on our streets?.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 15th January 2006 at 16:08.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 16:24   #30
JFASI
Major Dude
 
JFASI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I was hoping you could tell me
Posts: 1,350
Not very far. I'd say: 2008 it should all be over.

Certified Spam Connoisseur.
JFASI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 16:30   #31
MegaRock
Forum King
 
MegaRock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Inside my water bong
Posts: 6,855
Send a message via ICQ to MegaRock Send a message via Yahoo to MegaRock
Re: SWAT officer shot student

Quote:
Originally posted by Omega X
"I just figured that if someone is going to bring a gun to school, then they need to be taken out
That's better.

Megarock Radio - St. Louis Since 1998!
Tune In Now!
Corporate Radio Sucks! No suits, all rock!
MegaRock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 16:43   #32
Phyltre
Forum King
 
Phyltre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Freefall
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via AIM to Phyltre Send a message via Yahoo to Phyltre
Quote:
Originally posted by JFASI
Yeah, if the kid were to surrender the weapon and follow the orders of the SWAT team, then it would have been cool. However, he continued to be a threat to the team, the school and himself.
A threat HOW?
Phyltre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 16:45   #33
dlinkwit27
has no CT
(Forum King)
 
dlinkwit27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,235
Send a message via ICQ to dlinkwit27 Send a message via AIM to dlinkwit27 Send a message via Yahoo to dlinkwit27
Quote:
Originally posted by Phyltre
A threat HOW?
BY WAVING A FUCKING GUN AROUND!
dlinkwit27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 16:46   #34
MidnightViper88
Made In The USA
(Forum King)
 
MidnightViper88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 502
Posts: 9,100
Send a message via AIM to MidnightViper88 Send a message via Yahoo to MidnightViper88
Kinda sucks he didn't cap himself; I would've rather seen him dead...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
MidnightViper88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 16:53   #35
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
BY WAVING A FUCKING GUN AROUND!
A FUCKING GUN, THE FUCKING COPS KNEW WAS FUCKING FAKE!.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 17:05   #36
dlinkwit27
has no CT
(Forum King)
 
dlinkwit27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,235
Send a message via ICQ to dlinkwit27 Send a message via AIM to dlinkwit27 Send a message via Yahoo to dlinkwit27
or so the dad says. gee, what motivation would he haev to say he told the cops it was fake...oh, to make his kid not look so bad maybe? fuck him, fuck his kid, you dont get to play arond with this shit. you make ny threat like this at a school, and you know what is going to happen. the kid got what he asked for, and it sucks his parents didn't raise him well enough.
dlinkwit27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 17:23   #37
Phyltre
Forum King
 
Phyltre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Freefall
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via AIM to Phyltre Send a message via Yahoo to Phyltre
Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
or so the dad says. gee, what motivation would he haev to say he told the cops it was fake...oh, to make his kid not look so bad maybe? fuck him, fuck his kid, you dont get to play arond with this shit. you make ny threat like this at a school, and you know what is going to happen. the kid got what he asked for, and it sucks his parents didn't raise him well enough.
Right. And what we have is a kid who payed for the errors of his parents. Lovely. That's not justifiable...and it's a little hard to "off yourself" with a pellet gun!! (to midnightviper88)
Phyltre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 18:06   #38
Wildrose-Wally
The Albertan
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,122
We have a kid that paid a very high price for his own errors.
You don't take a gun to school, not a pellet gun, not any gun. By now every kid in every school knows that. Yet this kid decided to be cool and do it anyway. Not only that, he also threatened other kids with it. It does not matter that it was a pellet gun, the kids were terrified, they did not know.

It is very easy to blame the police, but in this case there is only one person to blame, and that is the one who broke the law. He had a way out, he could have given his gun to the police and it would all have been over, but he decided different. He made the choices and died for them.
Wildrose-Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 18:20   #39
Phyltre
Forum King
 
Phyltre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Freefall
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via AIM to Phyltre Send a message via Yahoo to Phyltre
He didn't need to die.
Phyltre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2006, 18:55   #40
MidnightViper88
Made In The USA
(Forum King)
 
MidnightViper88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 502
Posts: 9,100
Send a message via AIM to MidnightViper88 Send a message via Yahoo to MidnightViper88


If that kid was one of them, I'm sure people's opinions would've been different...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
MidnightViper88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump