Old 8th July 2001, 17:35   #1
mancide
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I have 2 sound-cards (I know it sound like overkill), 1 SB-live and 1 PCI128.
When I play a wma-file in winamp it is always send through the card that is not chosen as the preferred card.
See:
->control panel
->multimedia
->audio
->playback
->preferred device

When I select my SB-live as preferred the sound comes through my PCI-128 and vice versa.

It works fine with mp3's.

One other thing is that with the directsound plugin I cannot select the output when playing .wma's or AUDIO-cd's.
(I think the selection of the output of audio-cd's is not possible due to hardware restrictions, but I not sure of that. My audio-outputs(analoge and digital) of my cd-rom are connected connected to only 1 soundcard)
This plugin works fine with mp's.
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Old 8th July 2001, 19:40   #2
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Not sure if I fully understand you here or not, but . . .

The preferred Output Device in Winamp is dictated by whatever you set in the relevant Output plugin's config.
eg.
Prefs (Ctrl+P) -> Output -> WaveOut -OR- DirectSound -> config
Output Device : select either SBLive Out -OR- SB128 Out from the drop-down menu.

To play CD's digitally & directly from the CD-ROM Drive (bypassing the soundcard)
you'll need to install & enable the CDReader plugin
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Old 8th July 2001, 22:54   #3
mancide
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that's exactly what I mean!

when I want to play .wma-files the output always comes through the same soundcard, no matter what I put in the directsound config.(In the wma-plugin there's no output device to set)

The only way I have found until now is by changing the preferred device in my multimedia>audio>playback settings
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Old 9th July 2001, 04:01   #4
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Hmm . . . weird!

What do you mean exactly by "there's no output device to set in the WMA plugin"?

The WMA output plugin is for converting WAV or MP3 to WMA.
It's not used for normal playback.

Due to Micro$oft's stipulations, you can only use the WaveOut plugin for WMA playback, so no matter which output plugin you select to be active, WMA's always use WaveOut by default.

With all formats, you can only select WaveOut or DirectSound for normal playback. One of these must be selected. The other Output Plugins (DiskWriter/WMAOut/MP3Out . . . etc) are only to be selected for conversion/encoding purposes.

For WMA's, make sure the correct Output Device is selected in WaveOut plugin config.

Further info:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=31963
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Old 10th July 2001, 11:34   #5
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Let's see if I get it right
I play a .wma file with winamp, for this the wma plugin is used to convert it into a wave.
Then I have the directsound plugin selected so the wave goes to the directsound plugin.
This plugin should send the wave to the device selected in the directsound plugin.

Here, it goes wrong...
No matter which device I select in the directsound-plugin it comes through the same soundcard.

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Old 10th July 2001, 18:57   #6
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Doh!
No, you've not got it right!

WMA's don't get converted to nothing. They always remain WMA's.

What I'm saying is, no matter which Output plugin you make active in Prefs -> Output, due to the stipulations set by Micro$oft (co-authors of Winamp's WMA Input plugin - in_wm.dll), WMA's will always be played back through the WaveOut Output plugin, regardless of whether it's selected or not.

Basically, you need to set the OutputDevice in the WaveOut Output plugin to the one of your choice, because this is what WMA's are played back through . . . capiche?

Sure, you can make DirectSound the active Output plugin by selecting it in Prefs -> Output, and all other formats will be played back through it . . . except for WMA . . . because Micro$oft says so!

M$ didn't like the fact that people could convert WMA's to MP3 or WAV with Winamp (by selecting DiskWriter or MP3 Output plugins), so they made it so that WMA's will play back through WaveOut only (by default).

FYI, WaveOut is the default Winamp plugin for normal playback.
WaveOut doesn't convert tracks to WAV, it just plays them as normal, through your soundcard's wave system.
DiskWriter is the plugin which converts tracks to WAV.
Whereas DirectSound Output utilizes DirectX software drivers for playback.

Everything regarding this matter about the WMA Input plugin is explained in the link I provided above. It also mentions how you can use an older version of the plugin (from a time before M$ mutilated it) which supports the use of any Output Plugin.
There's even a direct link to said plugin in this thread from TSGH:
Where Did Those Plugins Go?

I hope this has made things clearer?
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Old 15th July 2001, 14:58   #7
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Thanks for your detailed explanation. It certainly made some things clearer.

But my problem still remains. You said :
Basically, you need to set the OutputDevice in the WaveOut Output plugin to the one of your choice, because this is what WMA's are played back through . . .

I've done this. I've selected the waveout module and in that module I can select 1 of the 2 soundcards I have, but the music keeps coming from the same soundcard.

The only way I can change which soundcards plays the wma is in the preferred device in the multimedia settings of the control panel.



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Old 15th July 2001, 17:04   #8
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So it uses the one card if you select the other in the waveOut plug-in configuration, and it uses the one card if you select the other in Windows Control Panel when you've got the waveOut plug-in set to Wave Mapper?
Quite an odd problem. I've only got one soundcard, though, so I can't test whether the problem's unique to your system or if it would affect anyone with two cards. Is there anyone else out there with two cards who can test this for us?

Edit: Oops, think I misread what you wrote the first time. So are you saying that regardless of whether you've got the waveOut plug-in set to the one soundcard, the other, or Wave Mapper, the card that's actually used is only determined by your Windows Control Panel setting (and then only by selecting the card other than the one you want)?

[Edited by Winsane on 07-15-2001 at 01:50 PM]
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Old 15th July 2001, 17:24   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by mancide
The only way I can change which soundcards plays the wma is in the preferred device in the multimedia settings of the control panel
Probably another of Micro$oft's wonderful stipulations
Yes, anyone else out there with 2 soundcards who can test this for us?

Just a suggestion . . .

Maybe try replacing the default wma input plugin with an alternative plugin.
Two I know of are
1) PP's WMA plugin
2) The unadulterated WMA plugin from Winamp v2.5

Make sure you disable & back up the default in_wm.dll first (winamp\plugins dir)
Also make sure Winamp is closed whilst editing the plugins dir/installing new plugins.

[Edited by DJEgg on 07-15-2001 at 01:47 PM]
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Old 15th July 2001, 21:43   #10
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Just (well, a few hours ago, right before I got kicked off the phoneline) remembered that according to PP here and apparently Justin here, the WMA plug-in doesn't even really use the waveOut plug-in. PP says it has its own built-in waveOut driver.
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Old 15th July 2001, 21:59   #11
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about my wma plugin - it is known to mess up on DRM-encoded files (wanted: links to files that cause problems)
i think that Nullsoft's in_wm.dll has statically linked out_wave.dll (in human language: it has a copy of out_wave.dll inside) and it reads settings from winamp.ini or something on start, but it has no config and isn't aware of out_wave config changes in realtime. not sure about that, just an idea.
there is a simple way to verify if in_wm uses out_wave (i don't feel like doing that) : replace out_wave with something else (eg. out_disk) and see what happens.
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Old 15th July 2001, 22:44   #12
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With your plug-in, Winamp crashes with my DRM-enabled files. Got room in your inbox for a 1.828 MB file?
With Microsoft's plug-in (both 1.0 and 1.11), it plays just fine if I try to play a WMA after renaming out_wave.dll.

Dang, I hate the way IE keeps saving the pre-edited message each time I edit a post more than once.
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Old 15th July 2001, 23:01   #13
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well it makes sense when you say the out_wave.dll is staticly linked, it explains why I can't change the soundcard through which the music is played.

Then I still have some questions:

1) Can something be done so it is possible to choose the output soundcard?

2) Why is the sound coming through the card that is NOT selected as "preferred device" in the control panel?

3) what are DRM files ?

I will do some tests with default wma input plugin tomorrow and see what happens. It can't do it right now anymore, it's 01.00 now and I have to go to work in the morning.
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Old 16th July 2001, 03:30   #14
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Hmm . . . the plot thickens.
So, in_wm.dll uses a built-in statically linked out_wave.dll then?
Aah, this is all starting to make more sense now.
More reasons to despise Micro$oft.

mancide

3) DRM = Digital Rights Management

Packaged/secure/copyright-protected WMA's require a DRM licence in order to be played (on the computer they were downloaded on only).

The DRM licences are stored in C:\Windows\All Users\DRM
(one of those lovely hidden M$ subdir's)

As for 1) and 2)
Maybe PP or Winsane can shed some further light?

I'm getting a bit confused here (though it is 4.30am here)
I'm sure you said first that you could only get it to play through your choice of card by selecting it as the preferred device in MM Control Panel, but now it would seem that it's the other way round, and it's playing through the card which isn't selected ?!?!
The mind boggles!

Does it make any difference if you select "use preferred device only"?
Not recommended as a permanent setting, but worth temporarily experimenting with.
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Old 16th July 2001, 10:32   #15
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my mailbox is only 1 meg
i'll see if i can produce some of these files with windoze media shiz bundled with winme
also, somebody could gimme an URL to one of those files - i've heard that there's plenty of them on winamp.com but i don't feel like searching (did i ever say that my connection sucks ?)
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Old 16th July 2001, 12:51   #16
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DJEgg

When you take a look back to the first message I posted, you'll notice that I've always told the same. You can even see it by the title of this thread.

I tried the "use preferred device only" setting but as far as I can remember it doesn't change a thing. I'll confirm this later today.
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Old 17th July 2001, 00:24   #17
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mancide
Oops, sorry dude.
Yes, of course . . . I fully understand you now.
/Yesterday was a very bad day for me. I'll spare you the details!

I think I'll post a "help us if you can" message in General Discussions to see if anyone else who's using 2 soundcards can reproduce this.
We need to determine if this phenomenum is system specific or universal.

Hopefully PP can sort something out . . . maybe?

http://www.winamp.com/music/events/july/
http://download.nullsoft.com/pub/mus...n_With_The.wma
http://download.nullsoft.com/pub/mus...x-Aisle_10.wma
http://download.nullsoft.com/pub/mus...er-Crystal.wma

Take your pick
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Old 17th July 2001, 06:10   #18
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Hey PP (or anyone), do you know if DRM WMAs will work on someone else's computer if you send them both the WMA and the associated DRM*.lic (and DRM*.bak and DRM*.key?) files, or do the DRM* files only work on the original computer? (If the latter, it might have been pointless to send you that file anyway; it's almost a year and a half old, and I dunno if they're still giving licenses for it.)
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Old 17th July 2001, 10:32   #19
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/me downloads
i'm really one of the last people in the world who care about microsoft's crap; i'm just doing replacement plugins and want my shit to work better (or at least as good as) the ones from winamp setup (not counting those which go to winamp setup). about 2 soundcards - i can swap my old sb64 to main box and see wtf is going on (i have 2 boxes here).
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Old 17th July 2001, 13:09   #20
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hmm... these files cause a lockup somewhere in microsoft's dlls. probably because my wma sdk is 2 years old.
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Old 17th July 2001, 20:24   #21
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PP . . . oh bugger!

Just what ya don't need, eh?

Winsane
I fear it's the latter, more than likely, due to the nature of the binary encryption of these files.
The worst thing is the system that DRM uses, where each new DRM-enabled WMA gets assigned an incremental DRM filename, eg. DRMv13.lic, DRMv14.lic, etc etc.
Firstly, you've gotta know which license belongs to which WMA, which is easy enough if you've only got a handful of WMA's (like me) . . . but if you've got 100's of them, this is where it gets a bit trickier . . . then there's always the factor of "does a DRM licence already exist on the other pc with the same filename?", and if so, can you just rename it (so as not to overwrite the existing file) and will it still work, or d'ya just replace it, thus disabling the original WMA it belonged to?
Of course, it helps greatly if there's no DRM licences on the other pc to start with, as in PP's case . . . luckily!

However, if ya know what you're doing, surely it's possible to remove the relevant code from the header of the actual WMA's with a Hex Editor, thus disabling/negating the link to the corresponding DRM licence?

Definitely something worth experimenting with anyway

Though, I'm definitely with PP on this one. I have a strong aversion for WMA's, especially where Digital Rights Management is concerned, and try my best to avoid them at all costs.

Just use the old 2.60 in_wm.dll and convert 'em all to MP3 . . . that's what I say

btw, Winsane, last time I tried that link it wasn't working. If it continues to be down, we're definitely gonna have to find a new link. I'll volunteer to host it if needs be . . . as long as M$ don't get wise to it and decide to pull the plug on me.

btw, mancide . . . how ya getting on? Any news?
I posted a plea for help in Gen_Disc, but it appears to have gone unnoticed.
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=55013
Surely someone else is using 2 soundcards on these boards, 'cos it ain't such an uncommon thing these days, especially where default OEM soundchips vs user-installed soundcards are concerned.

Maybe PP will triumph yet? We await with baited breath
btw, PP, you don't have to use DRM WMA's to test out the 2 soundcard scenario, any old WMA will do. Just knock a quickie up with CDex. Yes, no, maybe?
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Old 17th July 2001, 22:11   #22
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shit, i don't have default in_wm.dll anywhere (don't feel like dloading full setup). could somebody email it to me ? also, i've just put my hands on the latest wma sdk, but it's as messy as hell. i'll try to make a new plugin, but it will take some time.
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Old 18th July 2001, 00:23   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by PP
shit, i don't have default in_wm.dll anywhere. could somebody email it to me
Done!
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Old 18th July 2001, 04:02   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJEgg
btw, Winsane, last time I tried that link it wasn't working. If it continues to be down, we're definitely gonna have to find a new link. I'll volunteer to host it if needs be . . . as long as M$ don't get wise to it and decide to pull the plug on me.
Hm, mebbe it's case sensitive. Since I posted that link, one letter in the URL got changed from "f" to "F". The current link worked for me just now. Try this: ftp://severer.www4.50megs.com:666evi...iles/in_wm.zip
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Old 18th July 2001, 15:47   #25
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exactly as i thought: in_wm reads out_wave's settings from winamp.ini on startup. make sure that correct device is selected in out_wave config, then restart winamp. also make sure that winamp.ini isn't read-only.
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Old 18th July 2001, 19:07   #26
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Weyhey!
So it doesn't have an inbuilt wave_out as such after all.

Hopefully mancide will come back to confirm your fix worked.

ps. Cheers for the correct in_wm link Winsane. What a difference an F makes
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Old 18th July 2001, 19:13   #27
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it does have a copy of out_wave.dll inside (so it doesn't use out_wave.dll itself), this is why it isn't aware of out_wave.dll config changes in real-time and needs winamp to be restarted in order to re-read config.
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Old 19th July 2001, 04:05   #28
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1. It's a NULLSOFT bug! Ha-ha - nobody noticed it!
Wave Mapper in waveOut config just does not work - when you select it sound allways comes from the first sound card, no matter what is selected in Multimedia.

2. PP is absolutely right - in_wm has it's own copy of out_wave and reads settings on startup. So when changing device in waveOut you should restart Winamp to hear WMAs from the right place.

Nice effect - WMA from the left speaker and MP3 from the right
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Old 19th July 2001, 10:33   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by X-Fixer
1. It's a NULLSOFT bug! Ha-ha - nobody noticed it!
i wouldn't consider that a bug.
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Old 19th July 2001, 13:28   #30
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> Wave Mapper in waveOut config just does not work

Sorry, guys. I've messed with Millenium settings

waveOut works properly.
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Old 21st July 2001, 12:06   #31
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sorry, guys I had to do some testing in The Netherlands for a few days for my job.

OK, I see there are some misunderstandings:
my winamp.ini is NOT read-only, so when I change the setting s it should work says PP in his reply of 07-18-2001 06:02 AM
. But its not working, sorry guys

about the test with restarting winamp after changing:
It works !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not very handy but it does the job.
I probably didn't noticed it before because I often work
with several instances of winamp. Then, as long as the last one isn't closed, I don't know what happens with the settings in winamp.ini, they probably don't get changed or something like that. I'll do some further testing on this...

to X-fixer :
your nullsoft "bug" does not count for MP3's, when you change the sound card is switched when you change to another track or when you stop and start a track...
I can live with this solution.
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