Old 4th March 2007, 22:22   #81
Greg_E
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I'll check again. On one of the other links, all I found were versions that had 53 seconds of voice over a music bed, music tales out to approximately 1 minute. Some other was more like 1:28 which we could probably run a couple times a day. 30 seconds could probably be fit into each stopset, and having the text would allow the DJs to read it during other times. I'm not even sure that anyone involved with the programming for our station will do anything. Everytime I bring up the topic of licensing, and the reporting requirements the subject quickly get's changed. So I might be out of this on Monday as there may not be anything I can do past then. I only make the hardware and software go, nothing to do with the content or even the logs. You may just read about our stream in the filings page on the SX website:
http://www.soundexchange.com/news/Filings.html

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 5th March 2007, 00:31   #82
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Thanks, I was actually looking for PSAs mentioning SWCI. But that's being taken care of now.
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Old 5th March 2007, 00:56   #83
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I noticed an unusual statement being made on the SaveNetRadio.org homepage:

"...ask them to help repeal the decision of March 2nd"

While the intention is admirable, that level of judiciary influence is next to impossible. The outcome of a legal proceeding cannot be annulled by Congress (unless it is proved to be counter to some legal statute or precedent).

The appellate court may be able to reverse the previous determination or at least forestall any new decisions in light of new evidence. But this is ultimately a closed tribunal not an open forum. There is virtually no public input accepted during the remainder of this case.

The best course of action is to encourage lawmakers to provide a mechanism under statute for Webcasters to again pursue negotiations with SoundExchange directly for separate royalty rates during the 2006-2010 term.

--Randall

Executive Director, SWCI
www.smallwebcaster.org // Redefining Music Royalties for Small Webcasters

Legal Disclaimer: The information hereinbefore is not intended to constitute legal advice or consultation nor does it form a legally binding contract.
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Old 5th March 2007, 09:51   #84
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merged, moved, renamed and stuck.

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Old 5th March 2007, 12:49   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by SorceryKid
I noticed an unusual statement being made on the SaveNetRadio.org homepage:

"...ask them to help repeal the decision of March 2nd"

While the intention is admirable, that level of judiciary influence is next to impossible. The outcome of a legal proceeding cannot be annulled by Congress (unless it is proved to be counter to some legal statute or precedent).

The appellate court may be able to reverse the previous determination or at least forestall any new decisions in light of new evidence. But this is ultimately a closed tribunal not an open forum. There is virtually no public input accepted during the remainder of this case.

The best course of action is to encourage lawmakers to provide a mechanism under statute for Webcasters to again pursue negotiations with SoundExchange directly for separate royalty rates during the 2006-2010 term.

--Randall
I agree completely - but that's legalese and a lot for the average listener to absorb. If the campaign generates a little traffic to inboxes in DC, and is able to help create some media awareness too, I think it would be considered a success.

I doubt that any amount of listener emails will cause Congress to rush into special session. The campaign won't undo what's been done - but perhaps it will help set the stage for the introduction of the mechanism you mention, and increase the chances of it passing.

If people are planning to go to Washington, I think it would be great if lawmakers were somewhat aware that there's a problem before these people arrived. It might improve the chances of getting an audience with the right people in Washington. Just a thought.

I'm really impressed with how the small webcaster community, admittedly fractious at times, seems to be pulling in one direction. We need that right now.
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Old 5th March 2007, 17:05   #86
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I am trying to find information on what constitutes an "eligible online music station". I run a 96k stream with 15 max listeners. It's runs pretty much 24/7, and it's been up in one form or another since Oct 2004. Are small stations like mine in danger? I love internet radio; I would hate to see not only my station, but other stations like mine have to shut down because of this crap.

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Old 5th March 2007, 17:54   #87
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Yes your station is going to need to pay additional fees for the 2006 calendar year, as well as the higher fees for all up coming years.

For what it's worth... I talked to my boss and asked him to bring this up the administrative food chain to the president of our college. Hopefully our president can talk to her peers at other colleges and we can make a big push to help the cause.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 5th March 2007, 18:17   #88
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I also just talked to one of our students who "runs" our station and he thinks it's a good idea. So I'll collect the information that I can find and give it to him.

Has anyone seen any scripts or a list of features that we should talk about?

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 5th March 2007, 22:34   #89
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I apologize if I posted in the wrong place. I think we should coordinate our efforts. We are ALL in jeopardy here. There are lots of PSA mp3s available for download http://savenetradio.org as well as banners. I just want attention for the issue at hand. Thats my goal. It's unfair and wrong.
Nuff Said
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Old 5th March 2007, 22:46   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreg691
I am trying to find information on what constitutes an "eligible online music station". I run a 96k stream with 15 max listeners. It's runs pretty much 24/7, and it's been up in one form or another since Oct 2004. Are small stations like mine in danger? I love internet radio; I would hate to see not only my station, but other stations like mine have to shut down because of this crap.

Rich
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http://www.Guitar-Channel.com
I don't think you have anything to worry about. The only people who have the burden of prosicuting you would be the collection societies. I am sure that they will start at the top of the food chain first if do go after anyone.

Altough I am not encouragig you to pirate broadcast I am merely pointing out the near impossibility at how this will affect the smallest among us.

You can't get blood from a turnip.
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Old 5th March 2007, 23:34   #91
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If you stream any copyrighted music you are in danger. Make no mistake, this affects every internet broadcaster. I will just play indies? .. don't work. If anyone in the band is a member of RIAA then you are still in the same boat. The only way to fight this is to speak out in numbers. Let your listeners know the deal .. go to http://savenetradio.org and make a stand. Urge your listeners to do the same.
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Old 6th March 2007, 00:15   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
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Thanks Craig!!!!
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Old 6th March 2007, 01:44   #93
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DJTigger wrote:
Quote:
and the one thign i cant really seem to find is when this really takes effect? yes it says retroactive to 06 but whens the first date this really kicks in?
Afaik, the royalty rates become effective upon entry into the Federal Register (which provides sufficient notice to the public). Then again, I have also read that the rates take effect after the ruling is officially disclosed to the public. And that would be tomorrow.

There is still the likelihood of an appeal or a re-hearing but either of those could still be weeks away.

--Randall
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Old 6th March 2007, 01:48   #94
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dotme wrote:
Quote:
If people are planning to go to Washington, I think it would be great if lawmakers were somewhat aware that there's a problem before these people arrived. It might improve the chances of getting an audience with the right people in Washington. Just a thought.

I'm really impressed with how the small webcaster community, admittedly fractious at times, seems to be pulling in one direction. We need that right now.
Agreed.

--Randall
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Old 6th March 2007, 17:24   #95
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The full text of the decision (all 100+ pages) was released today.

http://www.loc.gov/crb/proceedings/2...erms2005-1.pdf
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Old 6th March 2007, 19:39   #96
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You might find this interesting!

David Oxenford informed me that an ephemeral license fee has been rolled into these new rates and that is likely why they became inflated. Previously the ephemeral fee was a surcharge (not included in the performance fee itself).

Of course, that information was conveniently never reported by the media, which clearly led to a lot of unecessary and incorrect speculation. I certainly am NOT advocating for an unprecedented raise in royalty rates, but at least there was some clear basis for the figures that SoundExchange arrived at.

--Randall
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Old 6th March 2007, 20:49   #97
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so basically as of today the 2 chocies are shut down or pay the rates?
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Old 6th March 2007, 20:59   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by SorceryKid
David Oxenford informed me that an ephemeral license fee has been rolled into these new rates and that is likely why they became inflated.
Yeah, I noticed that too... what hurts is the language essentially tossing out any notion of a royalty based on revenue. Looks like the judges considered any argument presenting that possibility to be pretty weak to say the least.
Quote:
Originally posted by DJTigger
so basically as of today the 2 chocies are shut down or pay the rates?
I don't think so - not yet - although I'm just a webcaster, not an attorney. Appeals are going to be filed. That could buy some time. But I doubt the appeals will change much here.

Best hope IMO is for a voluntary and long-lasting deal between the small webcasters and Sound Exchange. Next would be some sort of legislative relief I suppose.

But you never know what can happen in the weeks ahead.
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Old 6th March 2007, 22:07   #99
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I think they are being fairly clear who they want involved in this media anymore.

I mean, what the heck are people supposed to say. Hey audience, what I ran before (2006) cost me about $1000 a year and now ... well, you wanna choke up an extra $49,000 to tune in because it costs 50k now....

pffft.
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Old 6th March 2007, 22:30   #100
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Well I was told that our station will be doing very little about the savenetradio movement, Sorry for not helping out. Good luck with the fight, hopefully everyone else can get things to be better for us too (not that we really deserve it now).

A couple of students said they would still be willing to make promos and stuff. So just contact me with scripts and I'll see what I can do.

Also remember that if it costs 50K now, it would be about 40K for last year (remember that these fees are retro-active to January 2006), so that could be 90K you need to cough up (NOW!!).

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 6th March 2007, 22:32   #101
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yeah no doubt.

Hey man, you did what you could do and that is all that anyone can ask.
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Old 6th March 2007, 22:36   #102
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I am still confused about the whole chicken and the egg thing.

What if a broadcaster broadcast from a server outside of the usa say Canada into say the UK. If US listeners tune in how can they blame the broadcaster?

Or heres a better one. Say a broadcaster broadcast from a server in Canada and his intended audience is say Hungary because he has friends and family in Hungary that listen to his broadcast. All his music is hungarian all his station promos are in hungarian. Can he be held responsible if a US listner tunes in?

I think what needs to happen here is the record labels need to give permission to broadcaster under 1000 listners to pay for an international license that allows them to broadcast from anywhere to anywhere.

Im pretty sure someone is already working on that plan. I really don't see why they would turn down potentially millions of dollars that otherwize they will not ever get.
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Old 6th March 2007, 22:44   #103
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t4echnically, yes the broadcaster can get nailed in either one of your examples.

Is that really going to happen though? I doubt it.
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Old 7th March 2007, 01:26   #104
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Since this is our only outlet, I'm a little bummed. I put a lot of personal time and effort into that station, and now I really have a feeling that it will become too costly to continue. No one seems to be the least concerned with the licensing and all the paperwork that goes with it. What do you suppose happens when they finally realize that you haven't bothered to submit your quarterly paperwork?

Oh well, I guess I let this fall to my least concerned pile and get back to all the other work I have piling up.

Your mileage may vary!
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Old 7th March 2007, 02:04   #105
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yep. I know what you mean. I have already begun pulling the plug. At least until we get a better idea of how this is going to resolve itself....
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Old 7th March 2007, 03:39   #106
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Well, I'm not totally pulling the plug yet.

Who is going to Washington to fight this thing with me?
lead, follow it doesnt matter but it must be done

Savenetradio.org , I'm running your psa's and flash banners, But PLEASE update your site with info for the listeners, Bands, and Labels to get involved.

I am getting 100% Support from several Labels who understand the Chicken and the egg concept, We are working on a counter soultion to offer RIAA thats more fair for everyone and wouldnt cost a webcaster any more than they already pay. So far EVERYONE is in agreement BUT we must make a showing in force in Washington.

http://www.kwtfworldwide.com
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Old 7th March 2007, 04:30   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by dotme
Yeah, I noticed that too... what hurts is the language essentially tossing out any notion of a royalty based on revenue. Looks like the judges considered any argument presenting that possibility to be pretty weak to say the least.
I concur that the elimination of a royalty rate based on percentage of revenue altogether was probably not wise. However, in our blog I do posit that the pay-per-play rate is not entirely unjustified either.

--Randall
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Old 7th March 2007, 04:37   #108
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robertr994:

Contact me at randall@smallwebcaster.org . SWCI is going public this week as planned. (It was supposed to happen in January but with the new rates looming on the horizon, that set me back with other priorities.)

--Randall
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Old 7th March 2007, 08:19   #109
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ok cool, lets get this going


Robert

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Old 9th March 2007, 08:15   #110
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Hell, the first thing we need is a united front. As of right now there are at least four (if not more) sites that are all 'the united front' of webcasters. It's not united if there are so many different places and the broadcasters are fragmented between all of these different sites.

With that said there are people we can begin to contact and to let listeners know to contact.

The starting point of course is the Copyright Royalty Board itself. You can reach them here:

http://www.loc.gov/crb/contact/

And while we're at it here is some background information on the decision makers:

http://www.loc.gov/crb/background/crb-judges.html

Also in doing some research to find out who are friends in Washinton might be I came across the name of Congressman Ed Markey, Chairman of the House of Representatives Telecommunications and Internet Subcommittee of the Energy and Commerce Committee. About a week ago he announced that the subcommittee would hold hearings on the state of radio. These hearings would examine not only over-the-air radio, but also Internet radio, HD radio, satellite radio and other related businesses. This comprehensive review seems to be different from the previously announced hearing by the new Congressional task force on antitrust issues which had announced plans to review the proposed XM-Sirius merger.

And it gets more interesting. While Congressional hearings often lead to nothing other than an airing of the issues and information for future legislative efforts, they do indicate areas of interest that could eventually mature into Congressional legislative proposals. A comprehensive hearing on radio issues could end up providing Congress with the information that could send it in several directions - perhaps weighing in on multiple ownership issues or on the digital radio transition, and could even prompt Congress to review any action taken on Internet radio royalties.

So the Congressman must definately be involved in these efforts much like Congressman Rich Boucher was during the original Save Internet Radio fight several years back.

Another group of people we must target are the actual members of the RIAA. As we all know the RIAA does not and has never represented artists, composers or musicians. They only represent record labels. Here's a list of who we need to target in that group:

http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp

That's a big ass list but there are plenty that aren't 'the Big 5' who may also be willing to help or at least will listen.

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Old 9th March 2007, 08:27   #111
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I agree totally, Our station has a staff working 20hr days doing nothing but contacting those artist and contacting the smaller labels affected. So far the support has been huge. My hopes are the rest of the stations are doing the very same thing, Alot are.

Eventually though there has to be a point where all the fighting players on this issue communicate, maybe a private shoutcast server / head players talk show to the rest of us.
I'm sure hosting that wouldnt be a problem, hell a streaming service provider would donate something like that, it helps them too.

I am very impressed of the headway thats been made in 6 days, ..... we still have alot of work

http://www.kwtfworldwide.com
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Old 9th March 2007, 13:54   #112
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So far the best orginized site ive seen was built by Radio Paradise www.saveourinternetradio.com

But having 4, 5 or 25 sites about this isnt a bad thing, the more out there, the more its seen. As long as the site / station owners work together

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Old 9th March 2007, 19:09   #113
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Well, having alot of sites isn't a bad thing so long as they're all communicating with the other sites and making sure the information across them all remains consistent.

If we organize webcasters, service providers, listeners and anyone else affected and make sure they all target the same people we end up with a much larger response than if it is fragmented. If that happens we end up with smaller overall responses to any communications efforts and the end result is much less than what it could be.

If we can get all the existing sites together and get them to all agree to a united front and making sure the same information is available on all sites the response we can make to this injustice will end up being tremendous.

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Old 9th March 2007, 21:08   #114
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seems like a great application for skype seeing as how everyone is scattered all about.
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Old 11th March 2007, 19:46   #115
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Hey guys, just reading up on this and I have a few questions. I was broadcasting to a bunch of my friends who I play online games with and quit once I heard of this. (someone posted on our website) I don't make any money off of it and I don't have a license for it (didn't know I needed one) As of now, I have no plans of broadcasting anymore but I was wondering what I needed to do to run this correctly should I decide to do so. What if I make the broadcasts private?
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Old 12th March 2007, 11:41   #116
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This isn't going to kill my station. I've been here since 1998 and have never paid one red cent for my station, except for 3 shows that I pay a small fee to download podcasts for.

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Old 12th March 2007, 12:07   #117
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no, I dont imagine they would since you host your server at home @24k .....hrbgpa.east.verizon.net funny though, posting something like that on a very public forum and having your IP aval for ANYONE that looks....... heres your sign bro

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Old 12th March 2007, 13:09   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by coorslytle
What if I make the broadcasts private?
In all honesty you can do this and there would be little to no chance of getting in any trouble. There is always a risk but if the server is private and only those granted access to it could listen then I'd say you're 99.999998% safe.

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Old 13th March 2007, 13:26   #119
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Thanks MR,

Just for those who asked we write to our congressman. My reply,

Quote:
Dear Mr. Lytle:

I appreciate your bringing to my attention the recent decision of the Copyright Royalty Board to impose new fees on webcasters. I have always been supportive of measures that allow the broadest possible participation in mass media communication and so this decision is of concern to me. I am looking into this matter with my Colleagues who have oversight jurisdiction in this matter and will get back to you when I have more information.

Sincerely,

YOUR CONGRESSMAN
I think I'll check into this privacy thing now.
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Old 13th March 2007, 13:51   #120
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no, I dont imagine they would since you host your server at home @24k .....hrbgpa.east.verizon.net funny though, posting something like that on a very public forum and having your IP aval for ANYONE that looks....... heres your sign bro
Really what would be the fun in shuttin him down. No spoils to loot. If anything this decision is just going to force everyone underground and kill the big boys.
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