Old 8th March 2002, 12:11   #1
UnConeD
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Request to AVS VJ's

Even though there are tons of professional VJ programs, AVS is still cool... and I know there are some people who use AVS for large projections on parties and the like.

So here's a request to the AVS-VJ's here: can you post pictures of a party-with-AVS? I think it would be cool to have a good picture that shows off the quality (or lack thereof?) of AVS in projections. Reviews or comments on AVS at a party would be cool too.
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Old 8th March 2002, 13:02   #2
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I use AVS monthly on a event, and AVS does its job great, the quality is good enough (if you use overlay, cause that blurs the whole image a bit).

There's just one problem
AVS tends to display the same presets repeatly...I think there already many threads 'bout, but there's no solution yet...right ?

P.S. Pics following later...
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Old 8th March 2002, 16:28   #3
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hey unconed, PM Transfrmr. nuff said

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I run a Non-Profeit Organisation that makes Coisters.
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Old 8th March 2002, 17:54   #4
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i use AVS through a vision mixer at FOX STUDIOS fortnightly during one of the nights there.

I only use/edit/make bright presets as too much black in the background doesnt look good at all.. looks very empty.

I like AVS to use the whole screen, with many colours. Rendering the FOX logo and Promoters logos are very common for me, again have learnt which presets are best used for overlaying + making sure of 30fps, which is minimum.

I use 640 X 480 with Pixel doubling on and only use presets which look good in this mode.

havnt taken any pics yet of the screen, although ive cammed many of the nights there including BARDOTs live performance there 2 weeks ago
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Old 9th March 2002, 18:16   #5
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Old 10th March 2002, 08:01   #6
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Argh...now i know what DARK means...
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Old 10th March 2002, 22:23   #7
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AVS.. the one and only =)

hey there...
we´re also using AVS for projektions..
in clubs like Kraftwerk, LOK, atomic-cafe etw. around munich
I tried now a lot of tools... and AVS does the best job.
We use both fullscreen and overlaymode
depending on the location

my suggestion for a Fullscreen setup

use a resolution of 640x480 or 800x600
and pixel-doubling (avi´s you use should always be 320x240 or 400x300
for best results)
further go to settings/transitions
switch of all "enable pre-init... and low-priority" checkboxes
switch on all "enable transition on..."
switch off "keep rendering old effect" (looks smoother on transition)
choose transition "cross dissolve" (my favourite..
but use whatever you want =))
and turn speed nearly to 250ms
with this setup you now should be able to change the presets
accurate to the beat simply by using the "u" and "y" key (y on german
think z on english keyboards)(u=forward y=backwards)
or you put your presets on the 1-0/F1-F12/shift1-0/ keys
and fullscreen also offers the random presets function =)
when you need another beer

my suggestion for a Dualscreen setup

first.. we use an asus v7100 graphic card
supports dualscreen and fast directx acceleration
cause of the geforce2 chip (patched to quadro 2 mxr =))
winamp seems to use dirctx acceleration.

I first tried the overlay mode... but the problem is...
overlay only seems to work on the main monitor
and we sometimes have problems with crashes... specially
divx sometimes crashes...
and the error boxes are also shown on the main monitor...
so.. not really funny... showing windows errors to hundreds of
people =))
(maybe someone has an idea.. how to get this overlay to monitor 2)

Now we´re using the windowed mode window directly.
we just drag&drop it to the second monitor
you can scale the window accurate to 640x480 by mouse.
(2. monitor resolution also should be 640x480)
in the avs editor window... you can find the actual resolution
in the lower left corner.
puhh.. and now you can style around with any parameters
avs offers... for example use an effect list.. and scroll the
blend modes to the beat... using up and down arrows

so.. at least one problem left...

in fullscreen mode you have best image quality(color space)
the smoothest look.. and the fastes speed... but you cannot
manipulate all the wonderfull features in realtime

in overlaymode.. you have a bad colorspace a smooth look
and the speed goes down a bit. you could manipulate anything in realtime.. but you have the problems with the errors.. that might
appear

the "windowed mode" thing i explained
has a good image quality... no problems with error messages
but it looks more pixeled like the other modes

hmm.. decisions =)

so.. please... dualscreen support
that you can work in the AVS editor on one monitor while the other runs in fullscreen mode... !!!

further we use some VGA Splitters from Kramer Tools
(also amplifier.. up to 100m VGA Cable support)

here we have some pictures of our shows
www.pliction.com
(projects/proton for example)

some upcoming partys where we will "play" =)
Kraftwerk (Traffic)
Chilly Waters (Drum&Bass Crew)

keep rocking

sam

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Old 12th March 2002, 10:51   #8
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we've got a party on march the 23th in Leipzig - Germany, come and see it yourself. I think i'll hav enough pictures to post up afterwards... if you want some information about the party (only german - sorry) go to [link]. I use Avs in a 400*300 Window and additional Overlay Mode, because my elsa sends the overlay-signal directly to the video-out port. This way i can use my Hotlist and manipulate avs whie it's running. there's only one thing that annoy's me, the overlay modes sometimes caues bad looking horizontal lines or breaks, especially with water effects.

Has anyone a solution for this problem??
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Old 13th March 2002, 14:02   #9
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i've done loads of parties using AVS

heres a movie of one in NYC:

http://www.dmc.dit.ie/tim/temp/funbar.avi

a rock gig for 'connect 4 orchestra' in dublin:

http://www.dmc.dit.ie/tim/temp/connect4_slow.mpeg

and an 'electro-acoustic concert' in dublin:

http://www.dmc.dit.ie/tim/diversions/diverse_01.avi


t
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Old 29th March 2002, 00:31   #10
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I must have missed this thread before. LOL

'640 X 480 with Pixel doubling on' so that's 320 by 240! bet that looks good on a big screen. I need at least a res of 1024x768 and 30 fps to look halfway decent even on a 10 foot screen. Oh the wonders of AVS eh.

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Old 29th March 2002, 02:34   #11
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Awww give it up Rova... everyone knows that party people dig AVS more than Milkdrop, if only because of all the niftyness it radiates. Why do you wish to make all these AVS artists unhappy by forcing them to use inferior software? Tsk tsk!
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Old 29th March 2002, 03:56   #12
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Sorry mate too much to drink and I could not resist.

Inferior. Oh you are sooo old fashioned and 2 dimensional UnConeD.

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

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Old 29th March 2002, 11:59   #13
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Old 29th March 2002, 12:26   #14
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Re: AVS.. the one and only =)

Quote:
Originally posted by pliction
hey there...
I first tried the overlay mode... but the problem is...
overlay only seems to work on the main monitor
and we sometimes have problems with crashes... specially
divx sometimes crashes...
and the error boxes are also shown on the main monitor...
so.. not really funny... showing windows errors to hundreds of
people =))
(maybe someone has an idea.. how to get this overlay to monitor 2)

I use a Matrox G400 Dualhead Max and it works fine with overlay mode.
I also tried the overlay mode with a Geforce with TV output and it works fine.
You just have to connect a TV or VCR to the TV output of the graphic card and activate overlay mode.
Now you also can controle all parameters and when windows crashes the worst thing that happens is that the TV screen get black.

OFF TOPIC:
i just experianced problems with lineinput. After a while when i run my pc with a linein from the dj's my pc crashes but when i'm at home and i use mp3 files nothing happens.
Any ideas?
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Old 29th March 2002, 12:54   #15
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Goto Jaspers for better input and esp. output (low-latency) plug-ins. A must for any serious VJ out there who uses Winamp.

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

Visuals - Morphyre www.Morphyre.com
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Old 15th April 2002, 09:04   #16
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AVS rulez !

We use AVS in free parties about 1 time/2 month in france and it do its job very well ...We use 2 graphics cards in overlay (1 for windowed with controls in realtime (we parse over +2000 AVIs and BMPs),1 as a control monitor in overlay and the TV out on the videoprojector in overlay too)...Everybody don't believe us when we say that we use a freeware software to produce that...Long live to AVS...Check my 3 new APEs...Feel free to contact me: goebish@hotmail.com

Also visit my site: www.vfx.fr.st

see ya
[IMG]c:\windows\bureau\vfx.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 18th April 2002, 11:52   #17
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2 monitors

hum...i didn't try to work on two monitors...

if i do stuff with 2 of ehm..can i get the controller on the cmp screen and the animation on the other one

(or is there a tool to send a certain portion to be outputed (like you crop the part you want to be shown and activates it))

here i use a cheap tnt2 that use ot the moni or the output

but where i'd like to put it in practice they have an ati card (the best of ati)

i'm a bit comfused to search in the forum for that cause it's a bit hard to esplain in two words

Meow
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Old 18th April 2002, 13:18   #18
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2 minitors

Well, you must have 2 graphics cards....1 will be used to control AVS in realtime and the other will display the overlay of the windowed mode...If you have Win98 then the primary card (the one showing the overlay) will be the AGP card (by default but maybe you can change this setting in your BIOS) if you use 1 AGP and 1 PCI card or it will be the top most PCI card in your motherboard if you use 2 PCI cards...If you have WinXP then you can choose you primary card in the display properties and the overlay will be displayed on this primary card...In AVS go to display setting and check use overlay and put desktop to color...You should check that multi monitor is checked in winamp preferences....Hope this will help...Don't hesitate to send private message (in french ) if you have problems..And thanks for the avatar, this one is more funny that the previous one I had...Sorry for english peoples who read my replies as my english writting really sucks
Here comes 1 photo of our config: 2 PC running AVS with a video mixer:
[IMG]c:\vfx.jpg[/IMG]
P.S: I'm the little guy
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Old 21st April 2002, 11:32   #19
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2 PC a video mixer and avs really rocks!!
But if you have a gig nearly every weekend it is much work to organise a secound pc!
Another possibility is only one Pc with a VCR, when winamp crashes(happens sometimes when using linein) the vcr will continue to play.
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Old 2nd May 2002, 20:24   #20
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Unexplored Melts at Schikaneder!

more pics
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Old 2nd May 2002, 22:33   #21
Scar Da Kookee
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My Question

could i have a any sound coming from anline-in or microphone inlet and trick winamp to play the sound through to avs?

Needs more moo-cows.
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Old 3rd May 2002, 05:33   #22
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Yep.

To do it, open location "linein://".
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Old 8th May 2002, 07:56   #23
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Hi, one time a month I do AVS in a small private club near Heidelberg. Only on a low level ( since I do not have the money for expensive equipments ) which means a cheap used projector (about 500 $ ) and one PC. But even this creates a nice experience.

****** Cosmonaut




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Old 8th May 2002, 10:04   #24
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El-vis: Heh... I recognize one preset from one of your first 3D SSC packs.

It's really neat to see AVS on a big screen, I hope all the AVS VJ's keep adding to this thread! It's a good reason for others to keep making presets.

The last big party I was at which had videoscreens was actually a bit boring. I felt like "hah, I can do better " most of the time, because they kept using repetitive video-clips instead of real-time generated visuals. Though it was about a month after 11 september, so they used footage from the WTC crash: a really cool effect on a big techno rave
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Old 8th May 2002, 10:50   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by UnConeD
The last big party I was at which had videoscreens was actually a bit boring. I felt like "hah, I can do better " most of the time, because they kept using repetitive video-clips instead of real-time generated visuals. Though it was about a month after 11 september, so they used footage from the WTC crash: a really cool effect on a big techno rave
They used clips from the WTC crash! Man that is disgraceful! Was it the Bin Laden's birthday party or something. I know you are a Neo-Nazi UnConeD but please.......

Anyway surely the point of visuals in clubs is to enhance the experience for the clubbers. I don't see how footage of disasters can enhance the clubbing experience at all.
Think of the drugs and all the bad trips that could occur......

(edit These people give us VJ's a bad name. The main complaint about visuals that I come across (and why they are not in more clubs) is that promoters and the public think that it is going to be video clip of disasters and shit or porn and stuff in there. I know many club promoters and people who think this I have to should them that it is nothing like that. Fucking amateurs. /edit)

Hell just playing video clips is boring enough.

Your last big party was in October you need to get out more.....that or wait for another big scale disaster.

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

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Old 9th May 2002, 02:53   #26
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I didn't say my last big party was in October, I said my last big party with videoscreens was in October . I don't know about where you live, but big fat videoscreens are still a bit of a rarity here (especially since I usually don't frequent big raves and parties).

Oh and I don't feel bad about the WTC crash: just because something bad happened in the USA doesn't mean that it's suddenly more important than the other 1001 things that go wrong on this planet every day. People need to stop being hypocritical and admit they don't give a damn about something unless it happens on their doorstep.

This topic is just way too personal. I didn't mind the footage, perhaps you do, perhaps others do, but it seems you're trying to be sarcastic and serious in the same message.

In any case, I just got back from a great party in my local student's bar, so don't blame me for not going out enough .

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Old 9th May 2002, 03:44   #27
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i think one of the pics that elvis2 post is from tonic.
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Old 9th May 2002, 03:52   #28
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oh yeah...

Rovastar: If USA wasn't such an asshole to other countries and people, wtc would neber have happened. Those people who support USA also support nationalism through whatever means. These people support more violence in return. Look at the news in USA, 1 America soldier died in helicopter accident. Look at how pathetic this war is... we killed more of our men then they do. Is it that we can only fight enemies that we extremely outweigh them in power?

#1 nation vs. people who have nothing to do with wtc and haven't eaten in days.

Who wins?
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Old 9th May 2002, 05:46   #29
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Hey, you also killed four of our candian soldiers in this war.
But hey, it comes with the territory. If you play near fire, expect to get burned. If you play near explosive devices, expect to get blown up. If you play the part of the top dog, don't expect sympathy when you get smacked around a bit. I agree it was tragic, but worse stuff happens all the time.

$.02
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Old 9th May 2002, 09:24   #30
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Topic

The WTC-crash is a sensitive topic, and I'm sorry for bringing it up. I'd love to hear your opinions on this, but this is not a political forum and there are better places to discuss these things.

However, what I do want to discuss is the usage of this kind of footage on parties. A great example I know of is what the group Orbital (great music btw) shows when playing their song Satan. I found a video (17MB MPEG, the quality is ok) of a live performance on their website.
If you look closely at the 3 video-screens in the background, you can see explosions, bombs, war-planes, cruise missiles and more. I think there's a shot of Hitler in their too, but I'm not sure (it's quite blurry).
If you know the song (quite hard, agressive techno), I think you'll agree with me that those images can add a lot to the live performance. Note also that this kind of footage is used specifically for this song: normally Orbital concerts are not trademarked by this. In my experiences, huge raves are generally very peaceful (as opposed to some metal concerts, where being near the stage means getting elbows in your face), so I doubt it's making people agressive.
Bad trips can occur yes, but that's related to drug use in general, not just video-screens.

And by the way, the WTC footage the party (it was Yellow Fever) was only used briefly. Other than that, it was mostly psychedelic, abstract, trippy AVS-like loops.

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Old 9th May 2002, 10:12   #31
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In the movie 'Virtuosity' (with Russel Crowe and Denzel Washington), they had videoscreens in the nightclub, and the images were a hue-cycled live feed from people with cameras in the nightclub.

The message here is: Nullsoft, could you please make a webcam/video feed renderer for avs?
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Old 9th May 2002, 10:31   #32
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First off - My personal feelings on the WTC crash is that it is the worst single act of terrorism we have seen in the world. I have heard terrorist bombs go off in London and this sort of thing upset me a lot....the wtc attacks effect a lot more the people in the US, many nations were efected but anyway I do not want to talk about this here. I was trying not too let that effect me too much when I posted and tried to make the comments sarcastic also. IN an attempt to lighten the mood.

If you want to talk about it some of my veiws are here so you can start up the thread again (I will join in again):

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=82394

Back on topic.

I do not think footage of people being killed is 'really cool'. I think it is worse if it is recent events also. For a start you do not know how people are personally affected by what you play. You could offend someone with the images you play. Like you said UnConeD it is sensitive. (Whether it be the latest earthquake or a suicide bomber)

I don't VJ in outdoor rave events at the moment am just doing the club scene. Most of the clubs are bigish (1,000+ people) and the crowds are somewhat different to the warehouse gatherings.

Like I said before 'bad taste' images give visuals in clubs a really bad name. I know people that have projectors in there clubs but do not use visuals because some idiot 'VJ' (used loosely) dropped images of...bad taste in there.

It is a real problem, in the UK at least.

Something like the Orbital live set (still downloading only a 56k modem) for 1 track I can understand why they put it in. The track is called Satan and people have more of an idea of what to expect (rather then ‘randomly’ appearing in a set). But as I said I have not seen it yet and doesn’t always make it right. I don't remember them playing any images of really bad taste when I last saw them though.

I personally think that any tape loops etc are a bit old fashioned a(not to mention lazy) - I think we should all be playing real-time visuals. The more they react to the beat the better.

Anyway an interesting topic to discuss

Rovastar

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Old 9th May 2002, 10:39   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zevensoft
In the movie 'Virtuosity' (with Russel Crowe and Denzel Washington), they had videoscreens in the nightclub, and the images were a hue-cycled live feed from people with cameras in the nightclub.

The message here is: Nullsoft, could you please make a webcam/video feed renderer for avs?
I forgot about the video feed thing. They are even more lazy, old fashioned VJ's - they are even lazier than tape loop VJ's.

I have the same veiw on this as the tape loops. No reaction to the music - little point. Possibly used as a background (note the term 'background') but that is about it.

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Old 9th May 2002, 10:41   #34
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Don't worry, soon AVS will be everywhere and musical intruments will be able to 'talk' to avs, and CD's will have an 'avs' signal on each track.

You'll see...

*gets whacked on head by two men in white overalls and placed in truck.
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Old 9th May 2002, 10:53   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zevensoft
Don't worry, soon AVS will be everywhere
Not if I have my way

On a side note of VJ'ing: Do you people use any other plug-ins to show you visuals - even for a short length of time. I find R2Extreme to be the best at the moment. And when v1.40 comes out it will be the really goodhopefully Gordon will have sorted out the fully configurble presets for the scenes. It will easily fill 40 minutes in any set.

Or for a one off the B plug-in. Only one scene (and I 'know' it is a volcano and maybe a bit morbid) but it is top on with the detail.

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

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Old 9th May 2002, 13:51   #36
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I've been thinking about a sort of 3D Avs. It shouldn't be too hard to design a scriptable language which has vectors as a base type (on top of scalars) and which allows you to create 3D surfaces with certain primitive types (triangle/quad strips and the like).

Of course, I don't have the time at the moment to do a project like this, but it should be possible. R2 is nice, but ever since plug-ins like AVS and Milkdrop, others look bland in comparison. Also, when creating the metaballs and tentacles APE I noticed how slow development is in a non-scriptable language... changing even small things requires recompilation in C++.

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Old 9th May 2002, 14:25   #37
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'R2 is nice, but ever since plug-ins like AVS and Milkdrop, others look bland in comparison.'

Actually mate I find the opposite for a live set.

True AVS and MD have a massive amount of variety but obviously they cannot match the speed and detai of a purpose design plug-in.

But when Tripex or R2E come on and you have to go back to the less detailed AVS/MD setup people seem a little........disappointed. Obviously been spoilt too much.

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Old 9th May 2002, 14:59   #38
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I agree that R2/Tripex/B-Plugin/etc. are much more impressive than the visuals AVS and Milkdrop provide. R2 might be nice to show for a few minutes, but I think that in the long run AVS/Milkdrop win completely.

That's why something with the visual power of R2, but the possibilites of AVS/Milkdrop would kick ass . It's not impossible to do though, It's just a very large project.

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Old 9th May 2002, 15:37   #39
Illusion
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Although the basic premise of this is sound, I don't know whether this will actually happen.

Firstly, there appears to be, because most people aren't paid to do this kind of thing, a real lack of new visualisation plugins.

No offence to Ryan or Justin, but neither of them are really keeping pace on their plugins as much as the Winamp commmunity would like. I don't blame either of them at all, don't get me wrong, I know they would both be extremely busy. It just means that there's really no-one out there who has both the expertise and the time.

It seems to me there tends to be two kinds of developers. You either have someone really talented like Justin making AVS, or Ryan with MD, but then because they have so much stuff on their plate they can't necessarily "maintain" plugins. I know that both the AVS & MD wishlists are well in excess of what is likely to be implemented, because the creators simply don't have the time for it.

On the other hand, you have people who have the time to make plugins and so on, but they might lack some of the technical expertise or resources required to make something with as much potential customisation as AVS or MD. Like with Gordon - I really respect what he has done with his plugin but as he doesn't work at Nullsoft he doesn't have access to all the resources he might like to use (I know Ryan borrowed Justin's AVS mathematical libraries to use in MD).

You really need someone who has the talent there, PLUS resources, PLUS time. This is kinda like the old adage - pick any two: fast, cheap, good. It's really hard to find someone who has all three - like Ryan with MD has talent & resources, but no time; Gordon has talent & time but lacks some resources. It's gonna be pretty difficult for someone to achieve what you're suggesting. But, the day someone can combine the effects of Tripex, R2E, AVS & MD, where you can edit presets, and have the "best of" each of those plugins, that will be awesome
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Old 9th May 2002, 23:43   #40
Scar Da Kookee
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Sorry to break back into the topic of the thread, but if i can, sence it could get both of ya in one shot , borrow some AVS's from either one of ya, for a prom like thing for my school (project it). Unconed, El-Vis.
obiously both im sure you've seen my latest work (not good comparision to yours. and on a personal note, id like show some really complecated stuff just because my teacher(s) dont think AVS is what its cracked up to be )

Needs more moo-cows.
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