License to stream or no license?

[inlineskater]

Ok.. so I found an internet radio station streaming music. Nothing new... But I can't see where the station is paying a royalty? I found them on Tuneit and also here on Shoutcast. So what is the deal now? Can I start streaming music online and not worry about a license for the copyrighted material?

[thinktink]

Just because their licensing agreement isn't apparent doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Why do you care anyway? Is it a rival station to yours?

[inlineskater]

Not at all... I want to run my own station and I was wondering if you need to post who were licensed with. His station is operating online only and from his house. But its all main stream tunes... I want to do the same. I can stream off any of my servers, but what about copyright?

[thinktink]

http://www.google.com/search?q=Internet+Radio+Licensing

[rockouthippie]

Nothing says you have to post that you pay royalties or who you pay them to. That's between you and Soundexchange or one of the streaming companies that charges you to pay the licensing for you.

Having your own shoutcast station? Um... it's spendy.... Probably too spendy for a lark. Running a shoutcast station w/o paying royalties... not recommended.

Try loudcity.

[voodoohippie]

And who'd be dumb enough to admit they aren't licensed if they were not? Don't forget that the stations or shoutcast servers outside the USA don't have to follow USA rules. The US organizations like the RIAA are quickly learning this the hard way. It only took them 9 1/2 yrs to learn what most folks with common sense already know.

Loudcity and Loudcaster both are good choices. Also check out

http://streamlicensing.com they seem to be a good choice for they do allow you to stream commercials so you have a chance to have some of those fee's for licensing covered in profits you'll make from advertising (should you decide to go that way).

Being licensed does have its advantages too such as some music services that give FREE music out to licensed stations. Being able to have your station listed in directories (if you go with Loudcaster you have to give their launch page URL) and also support from the Loudcaster, Loudcity, or streamlicensing.com communities.

As mentioned you can license your FREE shoutcast hosting service the only one that will allow you to actually be listed in the Shoutcast directory and work is:

f r e e s h o u t c a s t d o t c o m

You are limited to 64K but after you get some donations you can upgrade to a paid Shoutcast server @ 128K. Hope this helps.

[calldon]

Originally Posted by voodoohippie

Don't forget that the stations or shoutcast servers outside the USA don't have to follow USA rules. The US organizations like the RIAA are quickly learning this the hard way. It only took them 9 1/2 yrs to learn what most folks with common sense already know.

So where do I find a server outside the USA???

I posted earlier that Alaina Kell with BMI seems to have decided her mission in life is to close down every little bedroom station out there. She started writing me with threatening e-mails regarding United States copyright laws several weeks ago. She has personally taken all the fun out of my station. We are currently (right now) in the middle of a battle over my station (with its less-than-50-listeners) and the web site. She is a recent college graduate but you could have fooled me with her lack of communication skills.

So I'm looking for a streaming solution based out of the USA. I need a server in another country.

I don't mind paying if the musicians actually received the income. If I play 20 tracks per hour for one month, it amounts to 14,400 tracks per month. If I pay $50/month royalty to LoudCity, each artist would receive $0.0069 per month. They would have to have a track play two times to even make one penny from it per month. The money goes into the pockets of BMI. Musicians have been aware of that for decades.

As a professional musician with studio chops and time, I know that the vast majority of musicians see zero income from air-play. That's why we perform and tour. Records only serve to the the name before the public so they will come to concerts. BMI makes the bucks and the musicians get screwed.

So you better pay up or a college girl named Alaina will come after you and threaten you with breaking United States copyright laws, although the artists will never see a red cent from what you pay.

[DJbigJack]

"If I play 20 tracks per hour for one month, it amounts to 14,400 tracks per month. If I pay $50/month royalty to LoudCity, each artist would receive $0.0069 per month. "

Not really.. You're assuming that Loudcity provides their services for free. Try assuming that Loudcity takes $25 of the $50 per month. ... then do the numbers, it's worse than you thought, huh ?

[calldon]

Originally Posted by DJbigJack

You're assuming that Loudcity provides their services for free. Try assuming that Loudcity takes $25 of the $50 per month. ... then do the numbers, it's worse than you thought, huh ?

Yes, you are absolutely correct. And taking into account the administrative costs, the poor little artists aren't getting much, if anything. But leave it to BMI to make sure they get their cut.

[voodoohippie]

@calldon: here is a very nice Shoutcast host in Germany. h t t p :/ /s t r e e m i . c o m they are reliable and no buffering. Now make sure you set up a Website OUTSIDE OF THE USA!!!!! to check the site use this: e n . u t r a c e . d e there are plenty of FREE sites from Russia, Germany and other places. Keep clear of any USA site and Shoutcast server and you're a winner. I'd also change the name of your station and stream through a VPN like Cyberghost. Make sure that you allow it to change the time on your computer and come in on say a Russian server. As long as it don't show your in the USA your clear. So VPN VPN VPN and did I say VPN? The RIAA wants you to think you can't be anonymous on the net and that is just a lie. Hurry up and order before may 31st and get unlimited gigs. So go for the $118/Yr plan for the VPN you'll be glad you did.

If your station isn't streaming from the USA, you avoid USA hassles. Don't have the REAL location of your station on your site either if you are scrambling your Internet from Romania, then you best know the time zone and zip code for the city you say your broadcasting from. Easy to do: 1. Google for Radio Shack get the address and zip and Bingo that is your new address you tell the public your broadcasting from.

I can't understand why BMI hates bedroom stations anyway but that brings up another point: Don't play Rap, Top 40, Pop Metal. These are the very artists who will narc on you faster than flies to dog dung. Stay up scale adult music aka Country, Classical, Progressive Rock stay clear of collage Rock, stay clear of music made in the USA for if your broadcasting from Germany you'll hang yourself playing USA bands. Stay UK aka The Who, Zeppelin, Judas Priest CYA absolutely no us music allowed on your station. Do this and you'll never see another threatening email in your entire life.

Good luck with your new station. Oh and one more thing KILL your username here and don't log on here with a USA based ip. remember think as if you really live in your new country.

[pfoole2012]

Originally Posted by voodoohippie

@calldon: here is a very nice Shoutcast host in Germany. h t t p :/ /s t r e e m i . c o m they are reliable and no buffering. Now make sure you set up a Website OUTSIDE OF THE USA!!!!! to check the site use this: e n . u t r a c e . d e there are plenty of FREE sites from Russia, Germany and other places. Keep clear of any USA site and Shoutcast server and you're a winner. I'd also change the name of your station and stream through a VPN like Cyberghost. Make sure that you allow it to change the time on your computer and come in on say a Russian server. As long as it don't show your in the USA your clear. So VPN VPN VPN and did I say VPN? The RIAA wants you to think you can't be anonymous on the net and that is just a lie. Hurry up and order before may 31st and get unlimited gigs. So go for the $118/Yr plan for the VPN you'll be glad you did.

If your station isn't streaming from the USA, you avoid USA hassles. Don't have the REAL location of your station on your site either if you are scrambling your Internet from Romania, then you best know the time zone and zip code for the city you say your broadcasting from. Easy to do: 1. Google for Radio Shack get the address and zip and Bingo that is your new address you tell the public your broadcasting from.

I can't understand why BMI hates bedroom stations anyway but that brings up another point: Don't play Rap, Top 40, Pop Metal. These are the very artists who will narc on you faster than flies to dog dung. Stay up scale adult music aka Country, Classical, Progressive Rock stay clear of collage Rock, stay clear of music made in the USA for if your broadcasting from Germany you'll hang yourself playing USA bands. Stay UK aka The Who, Zeppelin, Judas Priest CYA absolutely no us music allowed on your station. Do this and you'll never see another threatening email in your entire life.

Good luck with your new station. Oh and one more thing KILL your username here and don't log on here with a USA based ip. remember think as if you really live in your new country.

Good stuff. I just had my stream licensing provider jack up my cost to $100 per quarter, plus an additional $30 per month due to increased ATH. Just found out (thanks to your info) that the server I use is based in France. My website, however, is decidedly American. You had mentioned free site hosts outside of the U.S. So, if I understand you correctly, I can avoid those silly royalty fees by having a website host outside of the U.S.? Could you point me to one of those offerings, please? Funny how sharing the love can be so expensive.

[JE JaggedEdge]

Interesting voodoo....very funny post. Had me lmao! Even though the RIAA is owned by companies that have home bases outside of the USA.

[voodoohippie]

You could simply stream ads like I do and be Legal. I stream an ad after every 3rd song 2 minutes of ads every break. and it allows me to basically broadcast for FREE and be Legal. But if you have no money at all and still love Radio and want to broadcast and have a web site you'll have to Google Free Web Hosting and for every host you find you'll have to check with http://en.utrace.de to be sure its not in the USA. l i s t e n 2 m y r a d i o also has web hosting and so does myradiostream and both are outside of the USA. Now when I talk about those two sites I'm not talking about their ad supported Shoutcast where you can't embed or be listed in the Shoutcast directory. If you want FREE shoutcast that allows you to be listed you can stream @ 64K using ************* . c o m and use AAC+ but in all honesty it may be less of a hassle to be legal. You'll pay more for good VPN service like BTGuard cuz its at least $9/mo and you'll be doing a lot of research to find a good site outside of the USA. Many Radio directories check to see if your licensed and some have a maral where they will report your station if not (your on your own there). It could be done if you have the man hours to search. Its why I'm legal and went with streaming ads.

I know most don't like streaming ads but its the only Legal way to broadcast for FREE after you get enough listeners and enough ads impressions to cover the cost. Free or cheap Internet Radio broadcasting days are numbered legally (without ads). Even illegally could be numbered as I'm sure in the future stream hosts will be responsible for their users and the "safe harbor" will be lessor and lessor. and you'll have to make sure the VPN you use does not keep a log if you want to try and run a be rouge. I'm not trying to be funny I'm just like you guys trying to share the love of real music and want to broadcast without taking out a second mortgage on my home to do so. Again if you decide to be rouge Pirate your on your own. Don't say I told you to do so. What I posted was for education purposes ONLY what you do with that information is all on you!!!

I hope this helps everyone be more informed.

[voodoohippie]

One more thing I forgot to mention to stream ads you'll have to use something like D J C M e d i a or Radionomy but I didn't use them cuz I don't like their AutoDJ. You could do better with Shout Automation or LiveWebDj. moc.tsactuohseerf (reverse the word) allows free streaming and at 64K and can be used legally but ad streaming would have to be done on your end and on that one you'd defeat the purpose for you'd have to pay for the in stream content delivery network. Many things we can not discuss over the net as Free speech is truly not free speech and honestly I expect this post to be deleted due to the fact that what I posted is a conflict of interest to Radionomy especially mentioning Free hosting of any type. By some miracle its not deleted use the info and be educated.

[aaronsnet]

Just because you host your shoutcast stream and website outside of the USA doesn't mean that you will be legal. The European Union and individual countries have specific rules for internet royalties (in fact, I think they are stricter than USA is). Additionally, it could be discovered that your station originates from the USA. If this is the case, you could also be found liable. If I download movies from a proxy but I am based in the US, does that it make legal?

My suggestion is to just pay the royalties to StreamLicensing or Live365. Hobbies cost money. If you own a boat or motorcycle, you pay for the gas and insurance. If you bowl, you pay for the bowling ball and fees, etc. As my dog always says, it's better to be safe than sorry. Showing a royalty agency you listed in the StreamLicensing or Live365 directory vs. having to back pay royalties and deal with lawyers sounds a lot better to me.

(Nothing I am saying or anyone else in this forum should be taken as legal advice. You should always consult with a professional attorney for such things.)