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Old 18th June 2001, 16:53   #1
Rainfever
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Hi I have been looking around and have not been able to find any info concerning winamp 3 and mp3pro, i was just wondering if the new version of winamp will be able to encode mp3pro files, and if it is able to will it be able to do it in mass (ie. more than one file at a time) and if it will be able to go mp3 to mp3pro not just wav to mp3pro...
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Old 18th June 2001, 17:12   #2
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wa3 will support EVERYTHING that wa2 supported. i would guess that wa3 (as it is still a way off) will support mp3pro if wa2 is updated to support it.

so i'd read the threads in GD about this.

as far as encoding goes, many find this to be of excessive bloat, and use a separate program to encode like CDEX CDcopy, keep your eyes out on that front, so, eeh no.

DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS
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Old 18th June 2001, 17:14   #3
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Right now the answer it NO.

mp3PRO was only unvieled to the public like 3 days ago.
The makers of mp3PRO havn't even released an encoder that goes to a bitrate better than 64k.

I'm almost positive, from what i've read here in the forums, that WA3 will fully support mp3PRO once it gets "big".

Encoding more than one file at a time will probably be the easy part. mp32mp3PRO is not a good idea in my opinion.

Once a file is ripped from a CD to mp3 it loses quality.
If you make that mp3 to a wav. and encode it to an mp3 again it loses more quality. therefor converting mp3 to mp3PRO will mean a loss of quality. But i'm sure someone will eventually do it.
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Old 18th June 2001, 17:40   #4
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no MP3Pro support... no announcements --> Dinosaur Time

Yup it looks like we don't have to look for winamp3 because we have JurassicPark3 in the making. With no MP3Pro support, winamp will be a still-born product.

If you want to complain, just do what nullsoft seems to tell me (with their SILENCE). Sit-Down, Shut-Up, and Forget about it Sonny!

Instead of pulling their finger's out, they sound like old maids bitch'n about "new" things, and complaining about MP3Pro being snake-oil etc..

MP3Pro has been around since January 2001 it seems, and they have NO visible intention of even looking that way.

Maybe we'll meet again after the revolution. President's day is cancelled, the citizen's are rioting outside the Palace, and the nullsoft crew is in Tahiti.

for more insights goto:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=52470
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Old 18th June 2001, 19:07   #5
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I'm sure that WA3 will not support encoding mp3pro. But there will certainly be a plug-in that makes that possible
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Old 18th June 2001, 20:05   #6
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Re: no MP3Pro support... no announcements --> Dinosaur Time

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketMan_Wes
Yup it looks like we don't have to look for winamp3 because we have JurassicPark3 in the making. With no MP3Pro support, winamp will be a still-born product.

If you want to complain, just do what nullsoft seems to tell me (with their SILENCE). Sit-Down, Shut-Up, and Forget about it Sonny!

Instead of pulling their finger's out, they sound like old maids bitch'n about "new" things, and complaining about MP3Pro being snake-oil etc..

MP3Pro has been around since January 2001 it seems, and they have NO visible intention of even looking that way.

Maybe we'll meet again after the revolution. President's day is cancelled, the citizen's are rioting outside the Palace, and the nullsoft crew is in Tahiti.

for more insights goto:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=52470
I've read all that other thread, and you really arent all that clued up are you.

I recommend that you read up on _every_ view, not just FHG's, before you go ahead and post stuff like that.

AND, before all you other people flame him, how about we leave it at that shall we?

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Old 18th June 2001, 20:15   #7
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Smells like...

I wonder if anyone here could get Rocketman a part in Jurassic Park 3... preferably one that results in him being eaten by a dinosaur.

... don't you just love the smell of MP3pro enabled dinosaur-poop in the morning?

.s
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Old 18th June 2001, 22:36   #8
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Winamp 3 = JurassicPark 3

Hey Craig,

"how about we leave it at that shall we"-this sounds ONCE AGAIN like: Sit down, Shut up...

All I was looking for was an answer to a SIMPLE question:

Simple Question:
================
What is happening to support for MP3Pro?

Instead of answers, and proactive support.. I get excuses, threats of flaming (from a moderator; NO LESS!), and a trail of ducking and diving that one would expect from a banana republic government.

It seems your status has gotten to your head. You suddenly realise that you don't know the answer, so what do you do?
Simple, you try and shuffle the potential problem under the carpet, and pretend it doesn't exist!

What I can say is: If you had put your avoidance attempts into constructive aid, there wouldn't be a discussion right now.
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Old 18th June 2001, 22:55   #9
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Re: Winamp 3 = JurassicPark 3

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketMan_Wes
Instead of answers, and proactive support.. I get excuses, threats of flaming (from a moderator; NO LESS!)
I see no thread of flaming in Craig's post. He was clearly trying to prevent other people from flaming you. Quit being such a jackass

heh?
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Old 18th June 2001, 23:01   #10
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uh. Moron?

Nullsoft has NO WAY of currently implementing mp3pro even if they wanted to.

Since a lot of you forum kiddies, (RocketMan_Wes), aren't attached to reality, Understand this. If you can.

THERE IS NO AVAILABLE SDK AT THIS TIME FOR MP3PRO.

I'll say it again:

THERE IS NO AVAILABLE SDK AT THIS TIME FOR MP3PRO.

Even if Brennan was staying up nights getting wet and wild about spectral replication, there isn't a GOD DAMNED THING he could do about it. NOBODY but Thomson and FhG can TOUCH mp3pro at this point.

That means that even "l33t" people have no access to it, "Sonny".

As far as it being snake oil, and Nullsoft's reservations?

Turn on your brain for 30 seconds because here it comes:

MP3PRO'S LICENSING FEES ARE TWICE THAT OF MP3.

Here it comes again.

MP3PRO'S LICENSING FEES ARE TWICE THAT OF MP3.

A little quick math from those of us who are actually _done_ with high school: CodingTechnolgies/Thomson Multimedia's license fee PER DECODER for mp3pro:

*$7.50.

Price of winamp:

*$0.00 + peripheral advertising revenue and budget from AOL/TW.

Defecit: $-7.50.

Prognosis of MP3PRO when it's still in its fetal stages as a VIABLE CODEC to license: As we say in the industry .. "SHITTY".

If, and I say *IF* MP3PRO catches on, it may be viable for Nullsoft to implement it. But right now, it's DUMB to make a decision either way, and I guarantee they haven't made a decision either way.

There's a lot more interesting stuff coming down the line that may snuff MP3PRO. There's ATRAC3. AAC+SBR. New formats that bring the possibility of 128kbps-mp3-quality at *48* kbps, without sounding like scraping a wire brush against a frying pan.

It would be stupid for Nullsoft to jump on the bandwagon this early. (Yes, conceptually, MP3PRO has been around since 1/01. But not in any useable form.) .

Go download warez.

-Icedragon.
.hbs/certified BASTARD.

(P.S., Oh. I'm not a 'Senior Member?' Not enough 'posts'? I've been working with perceptual audio since before you were allowed to stay out past curfew.)
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Old 18th June 2001, 23:18   #11
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exactly what i would have posted. Cept im more inclined to make people read up on stuff than be their knowledge base.

Thanks icedragon.

Incidentally, If he wasnt such a jackass, I may have actually given him the answers he needs. Go figure, you get what you give I guess.

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Old 18th June 2001, 23:38   #12
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Four Answers NOone at NillSoft could give until insults started flying around.....

Hey forum-kiddy vanilla-iceDRAG-on,

Sounds like you know MORE than the guys who say they know it all:

1. NA has NO WAY of currently implementing mp3pro
2. THERE IS NO AVAILABLE SDK AT THIS TIME FOR MP3PRO
3. MP3PRO'S LICENSING FEES ARE TWICE THAT OF MP3
4. Prognosis of MP3PRO as a VIABLE CODEC to license = "SHITTY".

How are you justified to say the following:
"I guarantee they haven't made a decision either way"
This sounds like news. Where did you hear that? And why do you assume anyone else should if this information is kept secret?
I am comfortable with the fact that I do NOT understand the immediate future of MP3Pro, Winamp etc. That is WHY I ask questions. If everyone is told to get lost everytime there is a problem, there would be no progress.

"cool stuff coming down the line: ATRAC3, AAC+SBR"
THIS sound impressive. Now I must ask:
When does Winamp intend doing about ATRAC3 and AAC+SBR?
Why can't these things be implemented? How far in the pipeline are these developments? Why is winamp not taking a learship role in this issue?

Even someone who knows "perceptual audio" should know that information is a resource, and keeping it from the market is.

What I would like to see is NullSoft getting it's act together and MAKING NEWS. I want to see winamp quoted at cnn, bbc, yahoo, msnbc, mp3.com, cnet, zdnet for a change. I want to see pro-activity! Why must a guy be SHOT-DOWN for wanting the BEST?

Go make your excuses to Saddam Hussein, I'm sure he knows a quick way to fix them.
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Old 18th June 2001, 23:45   #13
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Jackass = Better than scared Chicken

That's right CraigF, go hide behind someone who actually knows what he's talking about!

News for today:
==============
Moderator = Go read up on it yourself!
What a joke, A FORUM is where you discuss things, not PASS things on!!!

Sorry folks, Craig isn't available for answers, he's hiding behind excuses again
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Old 18th June 2001, 23:57   #14
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Ok, well, clearly you dont want my advice, and clearly I do not wish to give you any, but i shall continue on regardless.

This is not the place to take up an argument on such an issue, but the basic issue is this:
You could code your own plugin to play MP3pro, you would have to pay the license fee, you would have to wait for any kind of sdk, and you would have to support the format.

So why dont you quit your bitching? Nobody is forcing you to use winamp, its just nice that you do.
But you could just use your loverly demo player from FHG, yes, love that 64kbps MP3Pro playback.

In fact, why dont you convert all your mp3s to this nice new format, because the moment you do, everything sounds better. In fact, why dont you convert _all_ your mp3s to _every_ format, that way you dont have to worry about which bandwagon you want to jump on, you've covered them all that way.

Anyway, something you should be more worried about is whether Microsoft will include MP3Pro support in WMP, why? because they have irradicated encoding of mp3s in favour of WMA. So why would they use MP3Pro?

Face it, your nice new MP3Pro probably wont have a very long shelf life.

CraigF

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Old 19th June 2001, 00:20   #15
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As soon as they can, MP3Pro support will probably be added. Leave it at that. Did Nullsoft have a problem with WMA, MP3, or the other proprietary formats flying around there? Nope. Just give it time.
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Old 19th June 2001, 01:32   #16
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Wes?! You're calling ME a forum kiddie? Do you have ANY idea who I am, and what my background is?



All us "forum kiddies" get cards like that.

As a matter of fact, RocketScientist_Wes, YES. I DO KNOW MORE THAN YOU.

You're a fuckhead. The reason they haven't implemented AAC+SBR and ATRAC3, "RocketMan", is because they *COST TOO MUCH MONEY*.


You want "proactivity"? Go mail Nullsoft a check for $500,000. You'll see pro-fucking-activity. You're a moron. Now go learn C++.


-Icedragon
Sonic Foundry/Homeboy Software
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Old 19th June 2001, 01:53   #17
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wow icedragon.... i feel you. well put..


BTW: nice card, i wish i had a job like yours.... damn making me jealous...
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Old 19th June 2001, 02:03   #18
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Well. Don't be too jealous. I'm not a certified RocketMan.
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Old 19th June 2001, 04:43   #19
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Wow

Wow my question really brought up a lot of hate, sorry guys, im a stupid 18 year old who does not know jack shit about whats what. I just know that i have a CD-mp3 player and 2,170 (170 Albums) mp3's i want into mp3pro so i can fit double the regular amount on a single cd, but i do not want to lose the quality that i have already lost (i do 128 kbps). YES GOD I DO ADMIT, I AM INFERIOR, STUPID, DUMB... but hey i just want some advise, so if you feel i am important enough to email, please email advice on the subject to stephenmanstephen@hotmail.com
thanks alot (no not sarcasticly)
-Stephen

PS. Yea yea i know, my speling sucks, big woop.
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Old 19th June 2001, 05:06   #20
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er. Wasn't really you were were going after... heh. Sorry.
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Old 19th June 2001, 05:35   #21
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icedragon,

Nice card, hehe. BTW, I'm curious as to why a Sonic Foundry employee uses Winamp instead of that Sonic Foundry player... errr Siren I think? Heh.

Oh yeah, thank you for putting some sense into RocketMan_Wes.
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Old 19th June 2001, 05:52   #22
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Re: Wow

Quote:
Originally posted by Rainfever
Wow my question really brought up a lot of hate, sorry guys, im a stupid 18 year old who does not know jack shit about whats what. I just know that i have a CD-mp3 player and 2,170 (170 Albums) mp3's i want into mp3pro so i can fit double the regular amount on a single cd, but i do not want to lose the quality that i have already lost (i do 128 kbps). YES GOD I DO ADMIT, I AM INFERIOR, STUPID, DUMB... but hey i just want some advise, so if you feel i am important enough to email, please email advice on the subject to stephenmanstephen@hotmail.com
thanks alot (no not sarcasticly)
-Stephen

PS. Yea yea i know, my speling sucks, big woop.
man, don't worry about asking questions. I think most of the insulting was directed at the RocketMan guy. mp3PRO sounds like it has cool potential, but if they're charging $7.50 per sdk, it'll probably die very quickly. You'd probably be better off spending the money on another hard drive. Sorry: that's not much in the way of good advice, but it's the best I can do.
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Old 19th June 2001, 05:56   #23
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Re: Jackass = Better than scared Chicken

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketMan_Wes
That's right CraigF, go hide behind someone who actually knows what he's talking about
Damn you're a whiney little bitch aren't you. I took a shit this afternoon... I think I saw some mp3pro as I flushed it down the toilet bowl.

The point is, you have no argument, so you devolve to finger pointing and name calling. I think Nullsoft know pretty damn well what they're doing - creating an engine that can support any jackass format the audio industry comes up with to save me 100 K on a 3 Meg file through the use of components written by folks like icedragon and yrs truly. You think they have time to waste researching every new stupid format? ATRAC? H HA HA... Chill out dude. - RT

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Old 19th June 2001, 08:58   #24
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ICEDRAGON RULES!!

Ice, man, I just have to salute that comeback to that ignorant, immature bastard Wes. This is probably the funniest thread I've ever read. Its about time that somebody shows the pretentious pricks who crawl around these forums, always shouting their mouths off to anybody they think knows a little bit less then them, a thing or two. That was just classic. Even funnier how Wes couldnt respond to that clever comeback so far, unless he hasnt read it yet. Beautiful work, my man.
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Old 19th June 2001, 09:33   #25
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I found this about mp3pro....
check it out...
http://www.deviantart.com/news.php?id=5062

plz don't flame me i didn't read the whole topic
and i feel like posting this
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Old 19th June 2001, 15:20   #26
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I'm sure Wes has read it. I usually don't pull it out that hard, but that there was a little "Smack-Fu" , heh

...I still wish I were a RocketMan.

And, I like Winamp. I use Siren, Winamp and Sonique. There's room for everybody to play


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.i'm here to entertain the people.
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Old 19th June 2001, 15:57   #27
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well, somebody has to use it.

j/k

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Old 19th June 2001, 23:46   #28
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yeah Ice pretty much summed it up.

one thing, though.. There are other codecs that could be made, not to be compatable with MP3pro, but to impliment their own similar scheme. though Fraunhoffer is wayyy ahead of everyone on this technology I hear.

BTW, what's with the decoding plugin that is in use today? am I correct in remembering that it is a tweaked Fhg decoder?

Has anyone ever heard much about LAME? Their encoders are some of the best when it comes to high bitrate MP3s (quality wise). Why aren't they implimented in Winamp? I don't even think there is a plugin for decoding MP3s using the LAME engine for Winamp..
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Old 20th June 2001, 02:24   #29
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I dont see what the fuss is about, i reckon mp3Pro is only making headlines because it has 'mp3' in the name!

From what i understand:

112kbps mp3 quality in 64kbps mp3pro
semi-backward compatibility

I dont think those facts alone are good enough to judge whether it is a good format...

Reserve judgement until a proper encoder which supports lower bitrates and VBR is released... then we can see how it really compares

i dont think the backward compatability of a 64kbps mp3 file is really that important, but i'd like to see how a 96kbps mp3 pro file sounds with a normal mp3 decoder

Personally, i do think this format will take off, simply because of the name I can also see it becoming v.popular in the DivX market; wma has seeking/sync problems with divx, and mp3 is standard, so it would be good to see a backward compatible ACM codec (would be used for shoutcast maybe?)

I also dont get why people compare to wma? no matter how i encode with this format, it just doesnt hold treble well, and is horrid on head phones

I bet there will be a few sick people out there who have bought mp3 players... i nearly did a few months ago, then i heard about mp3pro and thought to myself "better wait i reckon"

Oh, and...

RocketMan_Twat, give nullsoft a chance will ya, it's not like there is shitloads of mp3pro files for you to play is it... i remember when vqf came about... much nicer than mp3, yet had to wait aaaaaages for a plugin

l8r dudez
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Old 20th June 2001, 03:06   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by intranix
...Reserve judgement until a proper encoder which supports lower bitrates and VBR is released... then we can see how it really compares
Er... should that be higher bitrates?

I think the backwards compatibility thing is not too relevant, myself. In a normal mp3 player you'll just get one stream, which will only be listen-to-able () if its at, say, 128k, which means (I think) that the mp3pro must be encoded at 128k.
While mp3pro sounds (much) better than mp3 at 64k, for example, does anyone know whether this will give the same scale of improvements at 128k?
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Old 20th June 2001, 03:23   #31
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AFAIK, mp3pro supports a maximum bitrate of 96kbps... might be wrong though

And i meant lower im interested in what it sounds like at 56kbps, 48kbps mono and lower

64kbps or lower is the target for todays and tomorrows lossy compression formats, especially where transfer/streaming is concerned. I'd rather only use higher bitrates for archiving only

lets help the internet and stop clogging it up with wasteful encoding/bitrates
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Old 20th June 2001, 18:22   #32
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Matthew Todd needs a therapist after his lobotomy


http://users.pandora.be/mstevens/llamacrap_anim.gif http://users.pandora.be/mstevens/llamacrap_anim.gif http://users.pandora.be/mstevens/llamacrap_anim.gif



Ain't that strange, Firstly icedragon calls himself an "engineer", he doesn't even have a degree behind his name! (not to mention the fact that the degree he's currently busy with is not even in an engineering dept...)

Secondly, if he is good as he claims, why does he feel the need to pull out his CV in justification for someone he admittedly thinks is a kiddy? The reason he did feel the need to pull out his business card, is because he thinks it's some form of justification. The real truth is he's got an inferiority complex, and his precious ego is being attacked. Notice how he try's to hide his details, he IS ashamed of his life.
IT'S THE ONLY FORM OF REASONING HE HAS LEFT!

Oh, and as for his use of obscenities; just another sign that he can't deal with REALITY. As soon as some form of adaptation, or unpredictabiliy comes up; he resorts to anger and childish behaviour. This is also evident in the way Matthew Todd has chosen to keep changing jobs; you see he's not into fixing and improving, he'd rather run away to easy-to-handle horizons. Not the kind of slave I would need on my team.

As if he doesn't shoot himself in the foot enough, Matthew Todd calls me a moron for wanting pro-activity. Maybe Matthew Todd is the kind of guy who can't think for himself in the absence of someone else's cerdible activity. That explains why he stands on the shoulders of other giants. Matthew Todd mentions SonicFoundry like he started it, when in fact he just joined as a little development-slave. Awww, shame, throw some money in the ice-DRAG-on tin. <tut, tut>

What is of interest here is: Why does this guy come to Winamp? Maybe he's stealing more ideas to palm off as his own?

And as for Rhino and intranix, I am a huge supporter of the Nullsoft team. I don't shoot down their product in ANY way!
The only problem I think they've got is a PR problem. They don't like giving answers, or keeping their clientele informed of developments. Sure they're working on stuff. I don't doubt that for a second. But would it cost too much to say WHAT they're working on?

You guys rant and rave without data backing you up. I can PROVE noone at Nullsoft is talking about MP3Pro; they don't answer our questions. The fact that you guys know some miniscule facts is irrelevant to REALITY. We don't want to know how precise, or how viable or expensive a format or plug-in is, we want to know if it's going to BE INTRODUCED, or if it's even in DEVELOPMENT. The bottom line is you guys can only GUESS.

If you don't know the answer, don't PRETEND you know, least of all; don't come here with "facts" you make up on the fly just to "prove" you know what's gonna happen. For all your excitement, it seems you have just as much of any idea as I do. And this isn't even my main field of interest!

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Old 20th June 2001, 18:33   #33
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Incidentally, some of us do have contact with nullsoft and have for a long time, and some of us know what work is going on. But this isnt full disclosure, if you dont like it, take a long walk off a short cliff.

You dont pay one cent for Winamp. Live with what you get. If you dont like it, you can go elsewhere.

You wont be missed.

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Old 20th June 2001, 18:43   #34
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to RhinoTrip



This should work!



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Old 20th June 2001, 18:49   #35
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RocketMan, u have got some stress man! On the note of "REALITY", do you have a girlfriend? and can she handle your stress? is she deaf? cos there's no way anyone would want to put up with your whinging.

You claim people are childish, yet you persist with making up roumours, and making stupid remarks like 'ice-DRAG-on', wake up, grow up, and realise there is no consipracy, and just accept the fact that maybe the nullsoft team need a holiday!

Anyway, i'm off to seek and destroy this RocketMan fuckwit, and in the meantime BigUp the Nullsoft Massive! hehe

/me anticipates rocketmans 'no, you are the childish one' reply.

Lighten up dude
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Old 20th June 2001, 21:43   #36
RocketMan_Wes
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Bottom line: Noone here knows anything for sure regarding MP3Pro's future!







If you're new to this arena, don't bother asking anything. It's pointless. The LAST thing you're gonna get here is answers!

What I have learnt here thus far is:
===================================
1. Ego's are initimately connected to Perceived knowledge.
2. The closer you get to the tech-frontlines, the softer the logic, and the harder the resistance to change / opinion becomes.
3. When a techie doesn't know the answer, they'll rather insult you than tell you they don't know.
4. The l33t get strongly attached to their views. No matter how wrong someone is, they'll rather threaten you, then question themselves.
5. Points (1) through (4) are not new, they are TYPICAL of people running communist and 3rd world countries. History shows, this attitude guarantees failure. Many businesses have had to learn about this the hard way.

My conclusion is this: The end is inevitable, you forum guys will just have to adjust your attitudes if you expect anybody to listen, let alone interact. Without interaction you cannot learn what you're doing right or wrong.

I'm glad I'm only a winamp user, and I'll never need to interact with these guys. Any professional requiring an optimal environment within which to operate, would necessitate the rapid removal of these jokers from their company. A capitalist cannot operate with a communist foundation.

You guys might be loyal, but you're doing Nullsoft a DISSERVICE by swearing at users, insulting their comments, and chasing them away with your anti-social attitudes.

THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT PLACE TO LEARN ABOUT WINAMP!


<-- Forum commie's Favorite kinda user
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Old 20th June 2001, 21:48   #37
will
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i am not going to listed to your half baked ideas. go back to pre-school if your not already there.

DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS
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Old 20th June 2001, 21:55   #38
CraigF
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bottom line:

NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT MP3PRO'S FUTURE

people thought they knew vqf, people thought they knew aac, people thought they knew a lot of things, but since when has it made a difference. They all got flushed in comparison to mp3.

you think that is winamps fault because it doesnt support those formats? well, lemme fetch my cluebat, I think you will find there are plugins for that.

What makes you think MP3Pro will be any different?

Because this time the format has MP3 in the title?
Because this time its a fully propriety format?
Or is it because you have found your own little soapbox to stand on and bitch about things?

What exactly is it you want? An award for pointing out something they were already aware of?

You made your point, you got your answers, you dont like the answers, but they are the only answers you will get.

All you are doing now is making yourself look dumb, either that or you created the format and want someone to actually make a good player for it.

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Old 20th June 2001, 22:10   #39
wazzupthevorta
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Someone beat him with the dumbass-stick
If I was a hypocrite I would start BS-ing about forbidding junior members to post, but I'll just leave that to some of the more arrogant people Jokes aside, I really hate when someone that has just made member starts saying that Junior Members shouldn't be allowed to start their own topics and stuff, cus that is just PURE hypocrisy.
Truthfully, this rocket fellow is behaving rather stupidly, but I also must add that from what I've seen people here don't go out of their way to be nice to others, and that's putting it VERY mildly.
A lot of people need to relax and realize that being a prick doesn't help anyone.
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Old 20th June 2001, 22:56   #40
Snigel
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Need a friend? Get a dog!

I'm not going to mention any names *cough*Rocket"Man"*cough*, but "someone" has got some really serious issues, suffering from either extreme case of PMS, or just plain old penis envy.

I suggest someone should call the dudes in the white robes, and have him undressed and hosed down!

Anyway, was going to write a long intelleactual post, but since Rocket"Man" doesn't give a rats-ass about anything anyone is saying, I'll just put it as simple as I can:

Rocket"Man", shut the f*ck up and find another messageboard to start your flame wars.

And man, if you need a friend... get a dog!

The End.
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