Old 12th August 2004, 12:33   #201
discoleo
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I didn't read all previous posts. Instead I will present a real situation that happened some time ago:

A middle aged women, in her 10-15th week of pregnancy, presents to the doctor with a cervical carcinoma.

Explanation: the peak frequency of cervical carcinomas is in middle-aged women.

What should the doctor do?

Treatment for cervical carcinoma depends on stage but basically involves surgery + radiotherapy +/- chemotherapy.

There are 2 options:
1. preserve the fetus, means NO treatment. The women will most probably loose the fetus anyway and chances are high she will die from the disease, because the treatment would come to late.
2. Perform abortion and offer immediate treatment.

Questions:
What would you suggest this women to do?
Who should decide, what this woman should do: the medic, the woman or should there be a legal solution?

Kind regards,

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Old 12th August 2004, 12:46   #202
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I feel also the need to adress the following question:

Quote:
where do you draw the line at when life is created
It has been present multiple times, so it warrants a comentary. I already answered this in one of my previous posts where I explained the difference between an embrio and a fetus.

Basically life starts at conception, BUT human life starts as a fetus. Some jurisdictions (e.g. Austria) do indeed apply this definition.

Please consider that in different cultures, the definition/meaning of life can be quite variable. Especially noble ideas are found in buddhism. As my personal opinion, christianism behaves very poorly when adressing such ethical questions.

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Old 12th August 2004, 18:59   #203
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Quote:
Originally posted by will
...What they actually do is take an unfertilized egg (the kind that women produce monthly) and put the neucleus from a cell of the patient into it.

This egg now has the same DNA as the patient, but has never been fertilized.
...
By both you're qualifiers (gestation and fertilization) it has not been granted a new life by god.
This is a good thing!

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Old 12th August 2004, 21:26   #204
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Quote:
Originally posted by will
I just saw an interview with the scientist in charge of this resarch on BBC news.

What they actually do is take an unfertilized egg (the kind that women produce monthly) and put the neucleus from a cell of the patient into it.

This egg now has the same DNA as the patient, but has never been fertilized.

It it not allowed to develop past the stem-cell stage, and the stem cells are taken and used in research to one day treat all kinds of crippling illnesses of the body and brain.

Stem cells produced this way can form any human tissue, unlike stem cells directly from the donor.

By both you're qualifiers (gestation and fertilization) it has not been granted a new life by god.

This research sheds a ray of hope for the familiys of sufferes of parkinsons, altzimers and many many other illnesses
If its incubated in a tube
If they do have to place it in a surragate mother


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Old 13th August 2004, 06:43   #205
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Quote:
Originally posted by shakey_snake
If its incubated in a tube
Indeed it is!

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Old 13th August 2004, 06:59   #206
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Question:
Why would you need the stem cells to form "any human tissue"?
If you needed a liver, why not just take the "liver cell creating" stem cells?
If I have diabetes, why not just use the "insulin-producing cell creating" stem cells?

Stem cell treatment has always seemed a good thing to me, but it's the "research" part that bothers me. If you legalize stem cell "research", people could do just about anything they want, including things I consider immoral.


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Old 13th August 2004, 08:09   #207
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Because these general stem cells are the only stem cells that can form nerve cells. This is the major application of stem-cell research.

There isn't as greater need for this with livers and kidneys because organ donation works well already.

The idea is that if a man has a broken back, you inject some stem cells into his spinal cord, they make up the break in it, and he regains use of his legs.

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Old 13th August 2004, 11:19   #208
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Quote:
There isn't as greater need for this with livers and kidneys because organ donation works well already.
Actually it is, because there far less organs than patients. More patients die on a waiting list than actually are saved. Organ donation doesn't work well at all, rather waiting on a list has increased dramatically.
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Old 13th August 2004, 11:30   #209
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Yes, but this is more of a problem with publicising the need to carry doner cards than any medical issue needing serious research.

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Old 13th August 2004, 13:44   #210
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While publicizing may improve the situation, it won't solve it. Actually, the situation has worsened dramatically over the last 2-4 years and will worsen further in the future.

Consider now the possibility, that some of the people that are declared brain-dead now, could be saved sometime in the future. That means, that even less organs would be available for transplantation. Already, many kidneys and livers are obtained from living donors (yet organs like heart or pancreas cannot be obtained this way), but you don't always find a suitable living donor, these operations are more risky (both for recipients and the donor) and there is also an ethical question, because such possibilities pave the way for commercial organ sellings.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 13th August 2004, 15:05   #211
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stem cells are blank cells, it is impossible to extract cells that have already differentiated bc by that time you already have a person. you cant JUST take liver forming cells. stem cells become liver cells based on outside factors taht influence the cell to differentiate. (RNA, proteins, etc. in the surrounding tissue/fluid)

afaik its quite impossible to create a functional organ from stem cells. you can mix liver and stem cells together, yes, but that doesnt mean youll get a functional organ....like will said, the biggest and most probable application of stem cell is for creating new neurons, which are greatly influenced by surrounding connective tissue on how they form. A single neuron, or neuron cluster is big goal for stem cell research.

neurons are the only cells in your body that stop dividing at a certain point. you start with a certain number and eventually (b4 you are born) you lose 50% of neurons. the remaining are formed into tracks...the goal is to repair broken tracks...


but @snakey(and other anti-ST research) i also dissagree with organ formation, that is probably where i draw the line. if we approach the point where we can clone an organ using stem cells, we can make a person...thats eerie.
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Old 13th August 2004, 20:28   #212
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islet cell creation for diabetics is also promising i think.

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Old 14th August 2004, 05:03   #213
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yes malfunctioning endocrine cells could be replaced. and they are already using cloning techniques to mass produce bacteria with human genes that produce insulin, etc.

its applicable to everything (practically) except for replacement of entire tissues/organs.
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