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Old 17th August 2004, 17:44   #81
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Originally posted by zootm
I did. Already. I wish you wouldn't assume that I was ignorant just because I don't agree with your point of view.
I never said you were ignorant. We disagree, true. This article seems to refute your position, true. You brought it up here, not me.

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Old 18th August 2004, 02:52   #82
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Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
You can get specifics for Kerry's programs by going to his website.
I think it's John Kerry and his campaign who's confused about the facts. Monday on their website they tried to give John Kerry credit for the work of Senator Bob Kerrey! Pretty fucking pathetic when they don't even have a clue what John Kerry has done and try to give him credit. It sure seems to be a repeating pattern of theirs, inflate the truth or make things up, then spin when the truth comes out that doesn't support their original claim. All Kerry has to do is release his military medical records and his committee attendance records to prove them right or wrong once and for all. Since he's unwilling to do this it seems fairly obvious that he's trying to hide something.

John Kerry Confuses Himself With Bob Kerrey

Of course John Kerry is afraid to run on his left-wing Senate record, but does that mean he should pose as a colleague?

Imagine the screaming headlines and nationwide media ridicule if President Bush confused himself with another pol. But don't expect the New York Times and company to report this:

In trying to defend his horrendous record on intelligence "and spin their way out of his lousy committee attendance record," Kerry's campaign "claimed on its website Monday, 'John Kerry served on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for 8 years and is the former Vice Chairman of the Committee.' Fact is John Kerry has never – ever! – served as vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence," the Republican National Committee noted today.

"Turns out, there as a senator named Bob Kerrey from Nebraska who was vice chairman for a while. Kerry’s website later pulled the plug on the page, which might be construed as a metaphor for the whole campaign."

The RNC suggested: "Instead of posting false qualifications on the campaign website, maybe it would be wiser for John Kerry and the Gang That Couldn’t Spin Straight to follow the advice of House Speaker Dennis Hastert, who called on the Kerry campaign Monday to end the controversy by simply releasing his committee attendance records. What are the odds?"

And thanks to Bush-Cheney '04 for finding this quote Feb. 10, 1994, in the Congressional Record from Kerry's Democrat colleague Dennis DeConcini, then a U.S. senator from Arizona: "Mr. President, the Kerry amendment includes a $1 billion cut in fiscal year 1994 and $5 billion over the next 5 years from intelligence activities."

Here's what Rep. Hastert said Monday: "John Kerry served on the Intelligence Committee from 1993 to 2000, and according to official records, John Kerry missed 76 percent of the public Senate Intelligence Committee hearings during that time. This figure doesn’t include his attendance at closed door meetings. Those records can only be released to the public at John Kerry’s request. This is something that needs to be done, and I join Senator Roberts, Senator Chambliss, Senator Cornyn, and Senator Coleman and others in calling on him to do so, so that the American people can judge the whole picture for themselves."

Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said Sunday on "Meet the Press," "The easiest way out of this is for John Kerry and John Edwards to request of Senator Rockefeller and myself to release the attendance hearings; not only the public hearings, which they have rebutted, but the closed hearings."

Sen. John Warner, R-Va., said Sunday on CNN: "So I would go to what is solid, uncontrovertible fact, and that is the records that each committee keeps with regard to the attendance at every hearing of all the members, whether they're there or not. Now, those records are available. John Kerry, if he questions the authenticity of this ad that's out there now, should simply get those records and put them into the public domain."

Let's see, is there a positive spin to the fact that Kerry missed 38 of 49 public hearings of the Intelligence Committee, including the June 8, 2000, hearing on the National Commission on Terrorism's warning about the terrorist threat? Well, at least his 22 percent attendance rate was better than his Senate attendance recently. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...17/90351.shtml
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Old 18th August 2004, 07:04   #83
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Originally posted by CaboWaboAddict
I never said you were ignorant. We disagree, true. This article seems to refute your position, true. You brought it up here, not me.
The article is about stem cell research. My main position was on stem cell research. I did not even mention what I thought his stance on cloning was. I did mean to add a list of stances I didn't believe he would change his mind on in my post, however.

Unless the article marks a change in his stance which refutes your own position as well as my own.

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Old 18th August 2004, 07:08   #84
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well..well...well, look what he have here, more of Kerry's lies, this time with his own words from his own authorized biography.


Kerry contradicts self in his own war diary?
At least 9 days after Purple Heart, wrote he had not 'been shot at yet'

By Art Moore
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A previously unnoticed passage in John Kerry's approved war biography, citing his own journals, appears to contradict the senator's claim he won his first Purple Heart as a result of an injury sustained under enemy fire.

Kerry, who served as commander of a Navy swift boat, has insisted he was wounded by enemy fire Dec. 2, 1968, when he and two other men took a smaller vessel, a Boston Whaler, on a patrol north of his base at Cam Ranh Bay.

But Douglas Brinkley's "Tour of Duty," for which Kerry supplied his journals and letters, indicates that as Kerry set out on a subsequent mission, he had not yet been under enemy fire.

While the date of the four-day excursion on PCF-44 [Patrol Craft Fast] is not specified, Brinkley notes it commenced when Kerry "had just turned 25, on Dec. 11, 1968," which was nine days after the incident in which he claimed he had been wounded by enemy fire.

Brinkley recounts the outset of that mid-December journey, which included a crew of radarman James Wasser, engineman William Zaladonis, gunner's mate Stephen Gardner and boatswain's mates Drew Whitlow and Stephen Hatch:

"They pulled away from the pier at Cat Lo with spirits high, feeling satisfied with the way things were going for them. They had no lust for battle, but they also were were not afraid. Kerry wrote in his notebook, 'A cocky feeling of invincibility accompanied us up the Long Tau shipping channel because we hadn't been shot at yet, and Americans at war who haven't been shot at are allowed to be cocky.'"

The diary entry apparently confirms assertions made by Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth, a group of more than 250 vets opposing his presidential candidacy who served in the Naval operation that patrolled the rivers and canals of the Mekong Delta area controlled by North Vietnam.

In the swift-boat group's newly published book, "Unfit for Command," authors John O'Neill, who took over command of Kerry's boat, and Jerome Corsi assert the wound for which Kerry received his medal actually was caused by him firing an M-79 grenade launcher too close, "causing a tiny piece of shrapnel (one to two centimeters) to barely stick in his arm."

Could the "we" to which Kerry referred in his notebook entry have meant only that his crew, rather than Kerry in particular, had not encountered enemy fire?

At least one other PCF-44 crew member was with Kerry during the Boston Whaler incident, Zaldonis, according to the Boston Globe's account of the story.

Whatever the case, Corsi told WorldNetDaily he believes the apparent contradiction in Kerry's journal, as presented by Brinkley, deserves a response.

"We're not interested in charges that cannot be documented," he added.

The Kerry campaign's press staff has not answered WND's request for a response.

Corsi contends Kerry has a "pattern" of equivocation, "distinguishing and extending" his answers to charges, including responses to alleged participation in a 1971 Kansas City meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War where a plot to assassinate seven U.S. senators was considered.

"Finally, he said he was there, but he doesn't remember it," Corsi said.

Last week, Kerry was forced to revise his decades-long contention he was on a secret mission in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.

"Tour of Duty" author Brinkley is reported to be writing a piece for the New Yorker saying it actually was January 1969 when Kerry was sent into Cambodia, not December 1968.

As WorldNetDaily reported, the authors of "Unfit for Command claim that despite the senator's many public references to spending Christmas Eve in Cambodia – including a1986 speech on the floor of the U.S. Senate – the candidate was never in Vietnam's neighboring country. Rather, they say he was more than 50 miles from the Cambodian border at Sa Dec.

'Dear diary moment'

Conservative commentator and attorney Chris Horner, a defender of the swift-boats group who alerted WND to the diary entry, called it a "stunning" revelation.

On recent television and radio appearances, he said, claims made by eyewitnesses to events surrounding the first Purple Heart have been countered by "surrogates of Kerry" who do not address the substance of the charges.

"So finally, you have an eyewitness in a dear diary moment, saying, 'Dear diary, I still haven't been shot at,' confirming what the Swiftees have been saying," observed Horner, who has defended the group's claims in recent appearances on television news shows.

"Admittedly the source is questionable – John Kerry – but it at last provides a witness from his camp to address the charges that his first Purple Heart resulted from a scratch borne of his own fire," Horner said.

Kerry's journal entry indicating he had not yet been fired upon is noted in a soon-to-be released book by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair, editors of the left-leaning, alternative newsletter Counterpunch. In an excerpt of their book, they write regarding Kerry's first Purple Heart, "there's no evidence that anyone had fired back, or that Kerry had been in combat, as becomes obvious when we read an entry from his diary about a subsequent excursion, written on December 11, 1968, nine days after the incident that got Kerry his medal."

Enemy fire?

According to "Unfit for Command," Kerry's initial requests to receive a Purple Heart for the wound were flatly rejected.

In "Tour of Duty," Brinkley quotes Kerry as saying he and his comrades were "scared s---less" that night, thinking fishermen in sampans might be Viet Cong.

When some of the sampan occupants began unloading something on the beach, Kerry lit a flare, causing the startled men on shore to run for cover. That's when Kerry says he and the other Americans began firing.

Said Kerry in "Tour of Duty":

My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.

O'Neill and Corsi, however, claim there is no evidence whatsoever Kerry took any enemy fire that night.

Patrick Runyon was operating the engine on the Boston whaler during the incident.

"I can't say for sure that we got return fire or how [Kerry] got nicked," Runyon is quoted as saying in "Unfit for Command." "I couldn't say one way or the other. I know he did get nicked, a scrape on the arm."

Wrote O'Neill: "In a separate conversation, Runyon related that he never knew Kerry was wounded. So even in the [Boston] Globe biography accounting, it was not clear that there was any enemy fire, just a question about how Kerry might have been hit with shrapnel."

The book also asserts another one of Kerry's three Purple Hearts was self-inflicted.
This just gets better by the day! Every single week there's more and more evidence pointing to lies told by Kerry and all he has to do to refute them is release his military medical records, yet he will not do that.
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Old 18th August 2004, 17:58   #85
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one thing:

did that entry say "yet in vietnam", yet "this week", etc?

Realistically I don't care anyway because I don't think war records really matter, but I'm still curious.

edit: and i suggest you take a look at that factcheck stuff.

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Old 18th August 2004, 18:16   #86
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Complete nonsense. Mudslinging, of no political relevance.

Try harder.

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Old 18th August 2004, 18:34   #87
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I followed the link. Keryy appeared to be talking about the trip up the channel in the boat, not his whole time vietnam

"A cocky feeling of invincibility accompanied us up the Long Tau shipping channel because we hadn't been shot at yet,"

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Old 18th August 2004, 18:39   #88
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This is unheard of.

The more Kerry speaks the more he shoots himself in the foot. This is the best candidate the libs got? I'm still trying to figure out if this moron supports the war in Iraq that he voted for. Remember Kerry voted FOR the 87 billion BEFORE he voted against it. The debates are going to be priceless. The libs can attack Bush's policies till their blue in the face, but the fact is Bush is consistent and Kerry is not.
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Old 18th August 2004, 23:23   #89
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Kerry isn't even consistant with his own actions during the Vietnam War...When the time rolls around for the debates, it's going to be interesting seeing Kerry try to squirm out of his own lies and dodge issues (He can't make up his own mind, so I bet he'll try to say things regarding how he's been on both sides of the issue, making him possibly hard to pin down on any one specific thing in a debate)...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 19th August 2004, 03:03   #90
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"but the fact is Bush is consistent and Kerry is not."

let's see, here's a few:

the "mission accomplished banner."

he was against condi testifying for the 9/11 comission before flopping to support it.

Bush has gone through various reasons about why we really invaded iraq (imminent threat, rigghtt )

There is a more complete listing at http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/mov...es/000444.html

* Bush is against campaign finance reform; then he's for it.
* Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.
* Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.
* Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation; then he's for it.
* Bush is against nation building; then he's for it.
* Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.
* Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's against them again.
* Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict; then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.
* Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage, then he is for changing the constitution.
* Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders (fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.
* Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ... then he cuts benefits
* Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.
* Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island.
* Bush talks about helping education and increases mandates while cutting funding.
* Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea. Now he will
* Bush goes to Bob Jones University. Then say's he shouldn't have.
* Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to sanction military action against Iraq. Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote
* Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.
* Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox, he's against it.

Dwight Meredith is also at the party, bringing lots of refreshments:

Wampum: Bush Flip Flop Watch – Part IV: That brings our list of Bush flip flops to a total of 14. I will be back tomorrow with three more:

This is the fourth installment of our series on Bush flip flops. We began with a song parody. Our second installment listed eight flip flops. Those eight involved:

Mr. Bush's broken promise to retire $2 trillion of the national debt;

Mr. Bush’s broken promise not to spend the Social Security surplus;

Mr. Bush’s violation of his alleged free trade principles by imposing tariffs on imported steel and then his lifting of those same tariffs;

Mr. Bush’s inconsistent position on stem cells and the destruction of human embryos;

Mr. Bush’s opposition to and then support of a cabinet level Homeland Security Department;

Mr. Bush’s broken promise on control of carbon dioxide emissions;

Mr. Bush’s ever changing position of negotiations with North Korea; and

Mr. Bush’s waffling between a policy of disarmament and a policy of regime change in Iraq.

Yesterday, we added three more to the list including:

Mr. Bush’s reneging on a promise to fully fund the Low Income Home Energy Assistance program (LIHEAP);

Mr. Bush’s flip flop on apologizing to China when China forced a US spy plane to land without permission; and

Mr. Bush’s flip flop on the abortion issue. Mr. Bush once said that the abortion issue should be left up to the woman and her doctor. Now, of course, Mr. Bush claims to be pro-life.

That brings our total to eleven. Today we add three more. First up is campaign finance reform.

During the campaign, Mr. Bush appeared on ABC’s This Week. As reported by Rich Lowry of the National Review, George Will asked Mr. Bush a direct question:

WILL: In which case, would you veto the McCain-Feingold bill, or the Shays-Meehan bill?

BUSH: That's an interesting question. I — I — yes I would…

Once in office, Mr. Bush flipped flopped and signed the McCain-Feingold bill into law. Mr. Lowry, before the fact, noted that if Mr. Bush signed the bill:

he will be committing his first bona fide, no-doubt-about-it, can't-be-spun flip-flop and broken campaign promise.

Our second flip flop involves same sex marriage. During the 2000 campaign, Then Governor Bush appeared on Larry King Live. King asked Mr. Bush, "If a state were voting on gay marriage, you would suggest to that state not to approve it?"

Bush took the states right approach, responding “the state can do what they want to do.” Now, of course, Mr. Bush wants a constitutional amendment to make sure that states can not do anything they want.

Our third flip flop involves affirmative action. When the University of Michigan affirmative action cases were before the Supreme Court, the Bush administration filed a brief opposing the programs. Mr. Bush said that the “method used by the University of Michigan …is fundamentally flawed."

After the Supreme Court upheld the law school admissions program and reaffirmed that race can be one criterion in such decisions, CNN reported that Mr. Bush said he was “happy the nation's highest court recognized the value of diversity.”

That brings our list of Bush flip flops to a total of 14. I will be back tomorrow with three more."
here's a link on that page: http://www.compassiongate.com/promises/index.htm

it has a good list, too long to quote.

yeah, doesn't flip flop riigghhhttt......


"I'm still trying to figure out if this moron supports the war in Iraq that he voted for."

funny, I have heard this one before. afaik his position has been that he would have still voted for the go-ahead that gave the pres the power to order the attack, but he would have gotten mnore int'l support before doing so. However, the conservative slime machine continously tries to twist anything that is not a direct yes or no into a flip flop. I guess many right-wingers aren't smart enough to comprehend anything that takes more than 1 second of listening to in order to get the full picture.

Last edited by mikeflca; 19th August 2004 at 03:28.
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Old 19th August 2004, 03:44   #91
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have some more....

these may have quite a few repeats but just in case i missed some....



WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) signed a $417.5 billion wartime defense bill Thursday providing an additional $25 billion for Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites), body armor for troops and reinforced Humvee vehicles.

"With this legislation America's military will know that their country stands behind them as they fight for our freedom and as they spread the peace," Bush said.

"No enemy or friend can doubt that America has the resources to prevail," he said. "And we will."

Overwhelmingly approved by a Congress eager to show election-year support for the military, the measure includes money for 39 more Army Black Hawk helicopters, a Virginia-class attack submarine, three guided-missile destroyers and a 3.5 percent pay increase for troops. "This money is well-earned, well-deserved and well-spent," he said of the pay increase.

With national security the top issue in his re-election campaign, Bush came off the political trail for the bill-signing ceremony, flanked by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, members of the military and lawmakers. The carefully timed event highlighted Bush's role as commander in chief, offering him a spotlight Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) cannot match.

With the ink on the measure barely dry, Bush was returning to the campaign trail for his 20th trip as president to Ohio.

Bush had originally insisted that no extra funds would be needed for Iraq and Afghanistan until after the elections but under pressure from Congress, he requested $25 billion. He said the two countries were "the front lines in the war on terror."

here's another website list
BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES..."What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

2. Iraq Funding
BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004..."We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04." [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

3. Condoleeza Rice Testimony
BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'..."Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott Mcclellan, 3/9/04]

...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]

4. Science
BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists‹including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents‹issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

5. Ahmed Chalabi
BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE"U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

6. Department of Homeland Security
BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

7. Weapons of Mass Destruction
BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratoriesŠfor those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons. And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

8. Free Trade
BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

9. Osama Bin Laden
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA ³I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on himŠ I truly am not that concerned about him.² [President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

10. The Environment
BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work toŠestablish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

11. WMD Commission
BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

12. Creation of the 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

13. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) Have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

14. Gay Marriage
BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

15. Nation Building
BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

16. Saddam/al Qaeda Link
BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

17. U.N. Resolution
BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

18. Campaign Finance
BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the mccain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]
that was from http://www.independentsforkerry.org/...lip-flops.html

but let's not only use his time as pres....why not go back to gov. Bush of texas?

maybe it runs in the family?

I'm sure you guys get the idea.

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Old 19th August 2004, 04:09   #92
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Hey mikeflca, this thread is about war criminal and liar Kerry, not Bush.
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Old 19th August 2004, 04:46   #93
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He's contesting points asserted by yourself and others. If a fact wasn't relevant to the thread, why did you bring it up, grumpyBB?

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Old 19th August 2004, 05:09   #94
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grumpy, don't be so grumpy because I am not talking about Kerry. This thread has been off-topic ever since about halfway down the first page. Anyway, its pretty obvious that you don't like to contemplate the idea that Bush is at least an equal to Kerry in lying and flopping about, maybe even a bigger one, which is why you are telling me not to talk about it.

"war criminal and liar Kerry"

when ever you talk about war criminal and liar Kerry you inevitably talk about war criminal and liar Bush. The question is, which is more important: A guy who honestly appears to admit what he did decades ago or a guy who continues to try to hide war crimes that go on right now with his approval?

On another note, someone might point out that some of kthe "flip-flops" pointed out in those links were actually not flip-flops but failures of the Bush administration....wow, that really says a lot of good about the administration...

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