Old 27th March 2003, 11:32   #241
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Just wondering, what is the median age and education level of this forum?
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Old 27th March 2003, 14:52   #242
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I think it'd be hard to place a median age on the entire forum, considering that the age range probably goes anywhere from 18yrs & - to over 50. College, HS, Grad School... Personally, I'm 21 with some college education ATM.
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Old 27th March 2003, 17:14   #243
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I'm 21, working a bum job and reading and writing a lot. I've got a high school diploma. That's in school education. Out of school education is a bit harder to rate, I find, how many books you've read on your own time, your vocabulary, your parents at times, many things go into being an educated person. There are 12 year olds who are more educated than I on certain subjects, like urban crime, basketball, fighting, hang gliding, I don't know.
Most people I know think I'm rather intelligent. Whether they're being kind or not, I'm not sure, but I can hold a very intelligent conversation when it's not turned into a personal vendetta.
To me, this war seems pretty cut and dry, but again that is me. I find the simple fact that while we only hold Iraqi prisoners and they slay English prisoners is sick and sad. Who's saying that this guy doesn't need removal?
Go ahead. Tell me alls fair in war. Evidently, when we do show mercy, they hit us in the nuts. Soo, I say lets fuck these guys up. For the POWs.

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Old 27th March 2003, 17:38   #244
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I haven't seen the video or images of these people supposedly executed. Presuming they were executed I think it's fair to say that it wasn't Saddam who gave the orders to do so. Maybe a commander or just a soldier who's mad. I find it grossly unfair to blame everything on Saddam that he will have little control over. He's still a bad man but c'mon, he's not going to be on the phone giving orders as tiny as this.

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Old 27th March 2003, 17:46   #245
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That's a bunch of hooey Phily. If it were a matter of putting guns in schools or something, I could see how you could shrug the blame off on a Rogue commander or something, but when it's a matter of actions in Violation of the Geneva convention, I think Saddam would have a *little* bit of a say in what happens. You don't think the guy wants to make it very very clear that we're not welcome? For a man who hires the execution of anybody who publicly denounces him, for somebody who's troops fear him with their life, I find it hard to believe that he is not responsible for the orders, or at least has "little control" over the issue. Saddam controls everything. Those soldiers were trained to execute POW's and use surrendering as an attack. Their dirty tactics didn't just come out of nowhere, they were trained for that, and by or through saddam.
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Old 27th March 2003, 18:53   #246
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yea, and bush is 100% innocent to philly. He didn't order and bombs to drop on civilians, that was a rouge commander who dropped the boms.

/edit

civilians was vivilians, hence the next post

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Old 27th March 2003, 20:22   #247
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I know it's just a typo, but vivilians sounds so much more exciting than civilians. Viva la vivilians!!
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Old 28th March 2003, 05:52   #248
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but remeber, the iraqi people in baghdad (the vivilains), don't exactly like us in their country
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Old 28th March 2003, 15:07   #249
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Goddamnit, finish the war quick! The situation has got from bad to worse! I feared this would happen; you Americans underestimated Saddam, and now oil prices are rising cos fears of war dragging on and escalating. Do something! Bomb everything in sight! Ceasefire and withdraw! Nuke Iraq! I DON'T CARE!!! JUST FINISH THE WAR!!! If you're not even sure you can finish the job you started quickly, efficiently and mess-free, then don't start it in the first place!

Oil prices are rising. Airlines are going bankrupt cos people aren't travelling, which also means tourism-dependent countries suffer. Stock markets just ended their five-day rallies yesterday. IMF predicts long-term global economic damages 5 to 10 years into the future as the result of the war... To whoever it was that told me Iraq is only about the size of Texas and can't possibly have much economic impact on the rest of the world: how big is YOUR Texas??!!

Bush & co. have 5 days to finish this war before economists start panicking, and when they start panicking, I start losing money! I am NOT gonna dust off my CV when I'm 87 just because some redneck Texan kid decides to pick on an old man and go globe-stomping with an OICW and a pretzel!

George,

I've been busy, but now I can answer your reply to my post;

"Without a doubt"

"Disarm Iraq" and "Remove Tyrant" are just four fine prints next to two double-digit, probably triple, numbers on a list of Bush's reason. Speeches are written based on these four words to please the black'n'white-thinking talking apes, which is basically what over 90% of the human population is. Bush doesn't even write his own speeches. The big prints at the top of his list are exactly the stuff people don't see on TV, cos most people would whinge out "Oh, it's so evil!" or "That is sinister." These people obviously watched too much bad Hollywood gibberish. In the real world, there is no black or white - only grey, just darker and lighter grey - the way I like it.

"Unlikely. America has always been very generous, post-war."

A newspaper on the second day of the war said exactly this:
Quote:
"Washington has been very vague about its reconstruction plans, but made clear motions that it intend to reserve most of the contracts for U.S. companies."
And now that CNN has confirmed billions of dollars worth of contracts has been awarded to Halliburton, I think I need to explain no further. But I will also predict that Washington will open up the reconstruction to the world - to lighten up anti-war sentiments. That would be wise.

"It's not that simple. He doesn't exactly sleep in the same bed every night. That's what the "decapitation strike" was an attempt at."

Of all the trillians of dollars worth of military and espionage equipments, the world's cutting-edge of intelligence technology, and thousands of agents on every country, every continent across the globe, you can't even find one creaking old man who had to dye his hair black just to hide his greys. As an investor, I would have to say that's one bad investment. (LOL!)

"I disagree, but whatever."

He can't even hold a book the right way up.

But don't worry, I've seen worse global PR disasters, at least don't expect thousands to show up at the White House with pitchforks, torches and bad language. Food exporters in Asia are suffering because of new security measures in the US to prevent terrorism through imported foods during the war. This costs money, and there's only ONE person (around 100 worldwide) in the whole South-East Asia who is authrorized to give such certifications. Indonesia will suffer most - guess why. Somehow I find that ironic; You Americans fear hate, yet you don't care about what the world thinks of you.

But be careful, someone is bound to exploit this war thing to blast word in you Americans face and gain recognition. I've already seen a political cartoon portraying skeletal Uncle Sam pointing with his left hand at Baghdad being closed in by bombs, and drinking oil from a wine glass with his right hand.

And then there's what followed this, three days ago;
Quote:
IAEA says U.S. "evidence" fake

A few hours and a simple internet search was all it took for UN inspectors to realise documents backing US and British claims that Iraq had revived its nuclear programme were crude fakes, a UN official said yesterday...
Peace protesters say: Bush busted! Evil! Evil! Stop this war!
I say: shut up. Goddamnit, Bush, even I can fake Yale ID cards better than you - next time, make sure you have a little more skill before you do this.

And guess what; the next day I walked past a newstall, and saw a newspaper from a company I refuse to read;

Quote:
BLOODTHRISTY AMERICANS SLOUGHTER 100
Hmm, what do you, shall we say, "bloodthirsty" Americans think?

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Old 28th March 2003, 15:15   #250
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Valkyrie
Peace protesters say: Bush busted! Evil! Evil! Stop this war!
I say: shut up. Goddamnit, Bush, even I can fake Yale ID cards better than you - next time, make sure you have a little more skill before you do this.
so far, they think it's very unlikely that bush & co. faked the evidence. they just took at at face value far too readily, not checking if it was a forgery at all. this less shows them being dastardly and underhand, and more shows the "guilty until proven innocent" line being taken with saddam. they're prepared to take any evidence that goes against his claims of disarming, and will scrutinise (and find problems with, even if there are none) any evidence provided to the contrary...

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Old 3rd April 2003, 17:30   #251
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Quote:
Originally posted by EnDurA
but remeber, the iraqi people in baghdad (the vivilains), don't exactly like us in their country
Right. That's why most of the already liberated Iraqi's are cheering in the streets.

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Old 3rd April 2003, 22:39   #252
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Or is that what they want you to think? i've hardly seen any scenes like that on BBC!

From what i gather, the Iraqi's feel exactly like me, they want both the US and Saddam out of the country
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Old 4th April 2003, 03:10   #253
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I'm the 2000th viewer of this post. hehehe.
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Old 4th April 2003, 09:28   #254
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Reminds me of Fatman in MGS2...
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Old 4th April 2003, 11:19   #255
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Iraqi born US Citizen here :)

I'm sure I'm probably gonna get flamed by Iraqi haters but heck, I figured I'd post here a little story of me and my families life.

I'm a "Baghdad, Iraqi" born male currently living in the US (for the past 11 years) and I'll be one of the first to tell you all, it's about freakin time Saddam gets booted out.

The majority of us Iraqis who left Iraq wasn't by choice really, we mainly left for our own safety and our parents wanted us to live in a free world.

Saddam has created such a paranoia on his people that, the majority that cheer him (thanks to CNN that's all we see) do it mainly out of fear. If Saddam at any time feels like his people don't "appreciate" him, he just sends out his republican guard to random people's houses, takes their men, women or even children and you never hear from them again.

That way others don't make the mistake of not showing their support to their leader.

We left Iraq when I was 3 years old because, my dad was of Irani origin even though he was born in Iraq, and the Iraqi/Irani war was in full scale. His choices were, a) join the military and fight against Iran (which he has family in) or b) go to jail for refusing to fight. He chose c) leave the country via Lebanon by car.

Imagine leaving all your wealth behind just because you refused to join the military, he probably would have been executed like the 100s of thousands that were during that war.

Saddam is such a crazy man, that believe it or not, he was the one who put a hit on his son Oday just to "teach him a lesson". Oday got shot about 10+ times and is half paralyzed to this day thanks to a father. That just gives you an idea what kind of man he is.

Imagine a man that has the 5th richest country in the world, yet more than 90% of his people live in poverty just because he has to have over 100+ palaces that cost atleast $10 mil each to build (and we're talking $10 mil in Iraq where $1 will pretty much cover you for a week).

Imagine a man that is soo full of himself, that he put himself on the currency of his country, has well over 10,000+ images and statues of himself all over the country, and even in the middle of the desert just incase you forgot he existed.

The people of Iraq (and part of my family who is still there) have dealth with war for over 30 years now. My hope is that the US will do to the country what they did to Germany, what they did to Japan, and what they are doing to Afghanistan. Take out the cancer of a regime in the country and maybe have some sort of system that will help the country grow.

The biggest problem with the way this war was handled is, president Bush is not the best "Public Relations" model. His gung-ho tactics don't work well with other countries of the world and his attempt to prove his case that Iraq has "Weapons of Mass destruction" to this day have yet to be proved. He should have just saved himself the headache and just said "Listen, we hear the iraqi people calling for help, and we've had enough of Saddams crap, he's outta there".

Anyways, enough of my ranting, god bless america, god bless the people of iraq (yes god and allah are one and the same) and let's hope this war ends soon.

Jafar
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Old 4th April 2003, 17:53   #256
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He's right. My dad has an Iraqi bill for ten Iraqi Dollars. It has his face on it, it has his face on the watermark, and he's leading the jihad soldiers on the back. What a fruitcake.

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Old 4th April 2003, 18:10   #257
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Re: Iraqi born US Citizen here :)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jafar
Saddam has created such a paranoia on his people that, the majority that cheer him (thanks to CNN that's all we see) do it mainly out of fear.
funny, i've found CNN to be the opposite way round.

interesting post though, cheers

i'm not sure that the US is quite so noble as you make them out, though (in fact, i'm quite sure they're not), but yeah, it's a means to what should hopefully be a good end - after all, iraq has the natural resources with which to pay for its reconstruction, and will be expected to do so. will this create more resentment for the west, though?

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Old 4th April 2003, 21:04   #258
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
He's right. My dad has an Iraqi bill for ten Iraqi Dollars. It has his face on it, it has his face on the watermark, and he's leading the jihad soldiers on the back. What a fruitcake.
All British stamps and notes have the Queens head on them, does that make Britain the next target for George W Ape?

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Old 4th April 2003, 21:08   #259
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Does she build shrines to herself while children die in the streets of starvation?

Didn't think so.
Stop shooting at flies.

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Old 4th April 2003, 21:13   #260
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
Stop shooting at flies.
here's the deal: stop posting stupid references, which mean nothing (i refer, of course, to the the "face on currency" thing), and i'll try and make sure that phily doesn't point them out

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Old 4th April 2003, 23:35   #261
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
Does she build shrines to herself while children die in the streets of starvation?

Didn't think so.
Stop shooting at flies.
Well lets see. She has a shed load of castles and Palaces is probably the richest woman in the world (or is that Opera now?) and people are dying in the street everyday.

Watch it you zootm

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Old 5th April 2003, 03:45   #262
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so now that iraq has used chemical warefare (cyanide and mustard gas) is the war justified?
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Old 5th April 2003, 17:21   #263
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Quote:
Originally posted by _Blackdog_
so now that iraq has used chemical warefare (cyanide and mustard gas) is the war justified?
in this conflict? do you have a link, i have seen nothing of this?

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Old 5th April 2003, 21:52   #264
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i'll see if i can find a link... wish i had history turned on.

let me just quickly sum up what has happened. in the gulf war, us troops frequently used the water from the euphrates river for drinking water. i haven't heard anything on whether they are using it for water during this war. anyway, two days ago high levels of cyanide and mustard gas were found in the river. so its not like they launched a chemical weapon... but it is still chemical warefare.
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Old 5th April 2003, 22:14   #265
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blackdog, i think what you are reffering to was the chemicals Saddam put in the tigris to remove the shi'a minority from the marshes along the tigris in the southern part of the country

> story

Quote:
57 Refugees fleeing the area had consistently reported to Human Rights Watch and the special rapporteur that Iraqi forces had deliberately poisoned the marsh waters with toxic chemicals, but no concrete evidence of this could be obtained. Writing in 1993, the special rapporteur said: "Witnesses point to the greenish colour of the water, `black spots' on the surface, its bitter taste and the volumes of dead fish as proof of some kind of poisoning.
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Old 6th April 2003, 00:42   #266
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Old 6th April 2003, 01:56   #267
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Quote:
Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
blackdog, i think what you are reffering to was the chemicals Saddam put in the tigris to remove the shi'a minority from the marshes along the tigris in the southern part of the country

> story
say what you want. That ain't cool.

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Old 6th April 2003, 06:21   #268
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Quote:
Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
blackdog, i think what you are reffering to was the chemicals Saddam put in the tigris to remove the shi'a minority from the marshes along the tigris in the southern part of the country

> story
He is more likely refering to this.
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Old 6th April 2003, 07:08   #269
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Quote:
Originally posted by _Blackdog_
let me just quickly sum up what has happened. in the gulf war, us troops frequently used the water from the euphrates river for drinking water. i haven't heard anything on whether they are using it for water during this war. anyway, two days ago high levels of cyanide and mustard gas were found in the river. so its not like they launched a chemical weapon... but it is still chemical warefare.
it seems a lot more likely that they dumped it to stop it getting found. not that it did, of course, but there were far more effective ways they could have used the weapons had they wanted.

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Old 6th April 2003, 10:24   #270
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Saddam is a mad man, but defininantly not stupid...

I think he knows his only chance is American public oppinion turning against the war - something that won't happen if he uses WMD's....
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Old 6th April 2003, 10:32   #271
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i think his own army are in worst condition than his people, they have to fill their canteens from muddy water, and eating grass, and if they decide to defect, they get exicuted and their bodies put up for public display so that others won't think about it. he's ruthless, cunning and totally barbaric
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Old 6th April 2003, 12:28   #272
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Don't you also get shot for deserting in the US and British armies?

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Old 6th April 2003, 13:14   #273
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Just a couple of comments.

I dunno if this war is entirely right, but I think it could have been handled better. I think france could have been less of a bitch with it's "we will veto anything else braught before the UN" I think some of those countries that are anti-war have alterior motives, such as france and russia having investments in Iraqi oil infrastructure. I think Sadaam is an evil man and needs to be removed from office, I think the US should leave Bagdad the instant Iraq is relatively stable. I think it does'nt matter whether or not Iraq has WMD sadam still needs to be removed from office. I think if you are a civilian and you are STILL in baghdad you are really really stupid, and you should probly leave baghdad RIGHT NOW. I think those killed by this war will be less than those that would be killed be saddam if he was allowed to continue as the leader of Iraq. I think over patriotic people need to reexamine their own country. I think america is one of the greatest nations on the planet but probly not "the greatest" I think I hate the press for giving every story a "spin" whether it is negative or positive. I think if the US became isolationist things would be worse than what they are. Does the US always do the right thing? I dunno but at least the US tries. I think the UN needs to pull it's head out of it's ass and be more than a beurocratic nightmare that only accomplishes something when one of the major countries involved finally decides to do something. I think the UN resolutions did not in fact disarm Iraq, I do not hate Iraqi's I hate the Iraqi Regime under the control of Sadam. I think Isolationism leads to allowing someone who should not have power to gain power. I think the US should either get involved in either many wars to remove horrible dictators or get into none after this war. I pray that the Iraqi people will be given a chance to have peace and happiness. I hope that the Iraqi people will in the end thank the US for releiving them of Sadam. I hope that if this happens it will become known in the rest of the middle east and help with foreign relations.

Anyways that what I think, and know and hope and pray
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Old 7th April 2003, 14:57   #274
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Sadam hussein is the worse asshole, but I still wish the US used a smarter way to remove him from power than killing thousands of iraqi soldiers and civilians with WMD and then put a military idiot to rule their lives.
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Old 7th April 2003, 16:17   #275
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Old 7th April 2003, 16:25   #276
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"...right after the americans are done ruling them for them "

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Old 7th April 2003, 19:51   #277
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That's Goddam right!


Someone has to show them how to live as a free people. And have a free nation.

No thanks to you , germany,france,russia,china.


An Iraqi man kisses the cheek of Pvt. Garrett Alvin of Palmdale, Calif., after the man was searched and allowed to pass through an Army checkpoint in Karbala, Iraq, Wednesday, April 2, 2003. Alvin is a soldier with Task Force 2-69 Armor, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division from Fort Benning, Ga. Task Force 2-69 was engaged in heavy fighting throughout the night with Iraqi forces in Karbala but secured their objectives by dawn with no Army casualties. (AP photo)

Iraqis cheer as Marines get near Baghdad
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Old 7th April 2003, 22:00   #278
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This 7yr old iraqi girl knows more then some of you people.

Last edited by webthing; 7th April 2003 at 22:26.
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Old 8th April 2003, 02:27   #279
zootm
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Quote:
Originally posted by webthing
This 7yr old iraqi girl knows more then some of you people.
don't worry dude, most 7 year olds are more mature than yerself

(note: that's not flaming, i honestly don't believe that webthing is more than 7)

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Old 8th April 2003, 03:57   #280
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I'm 7 1/2 so there.
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