Old 29th April 2003, 16:08   #41
lin_sook
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Originally posted by cgfiend
Amusing? What's amusing is the fact that you just don't get it. I feel sorry for you people.

(Edit)
I came to this thread to post my ideas. I'm not trying to be arrogant or cocky, just stating my opinion. Instead of a thoughtful reply you laugh. Well, it's just a waste of my time. Have fun laughing amongst yourselves.
did i attack your opinion? i merely said it was amusing. if this offeneded you, im sorry. yes you are entitled to your opinion but i am entitled to mine. its amusing to see such a boastful and patriotic attitude you have, yet you say you are not trying to come across as arrogant or cocky. well i'm sorry, you do sound as such.

yes, there are places less fortunate than the united states that could possibly be jealous of your country, but the fact is, your country isnt the greatest, richest yes. greatest, no. why would a person from... say the uk, germany, any wealthy country, be jealous of the united states. yet these are the same places where some of the population do display a disliking to you. nope, it isnt the money, nope it isnt cause u have better food and nope its not the freedom. when you run out of reason for people to hate, you really have to question why do people hate us? i assume theres alot you don't know about what your government has done overseas. i don't blame you for not knowing, your coutnry has done a great job of being passive on these happenings.

it starts out as people disliking america.. but you are a prime example of why they dislike americANS aswell. arrogant, cocky, boastful and unknowing of your own governments doings.

i truly feel sorry for you and the narrow minded views you have of your great country.
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Old 29th April 2003, 16:16   #42
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Originally posted by RyuRyu
But look at MTV, look at how the majority of the youth is so glued to it, so many that you hardly find someone that's listening to something distinctly different. I think that's what is lacking in America.
Mtv's ratings have gone down. I for one have watched it twice in the last year. Most of my friends don't watch it.

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Originality, strong individualism. Ofcourse it's like that in every other country believe me, but it is SOO Strong in America.
Obviously you've been to the wrong parts of America. I'm going to guess cities and suburbs. May I ask where you lived in New Jersey, as I live there currently and I see none of the bullshit you are generalizing about. You obviously aren't all too perceptive either, as what the media says is popular is NOT ALWAYS POPULAR. Mtv is losing ratings. McDonalds' sale numbers has gone down significantly in the last three years.
Look at all the shit on TV. Thank God it's shit. People are actually going out and doing stuff other than watching TV. Hunting Licence application has gone up in the last few years. Boating licences has gone up. People are going out and finding other things to do. There's none of that in the cities. New York is a concrete jungle. I feel bad for those people. Not only are thier cigarettes like $5.25 a pack but they've got nowhere to go. They're stuck. Everywhere you go is packed with people. ugh. Fuck that noise.
Quote:

And going back to the original topic, America and it's attitude to it's neighbors.... If most US citizens feel they have the right to invade another country so far away because "We are the superpower, we are the strongest'. . . Then shouldn't we be acting like one. A person is person can be strong in more than one physical definition. A person can be kind, gentle, willing, supportive, understanding, a good friend, calm... Aren't those strong characteristics as well?


I don't like the idea you're pushing. We are acting like a superpower by sticking our nose in everybody's business. We are helping these people. We kicked the asshole out, and now we're helping them to thier feet.

Quote:

If you were hanging out with a group of your friends, the big tough guy, the smart one, the ugly, fat, rich, dirt poor, gay, and you the average guy. How would you view the bully that beats up the gay buy because he suspects foul mind play? Strong?
Wow. Common Stereotype analogy. I'm not even completely sure what you're saying with this mumbo jumbo, all I detected was that a bully beat up one guy in a group of friends. Well, where I come from, we'd get together and beat the big guy up. How would we feel about him "beating up a gay (g)uy because he suspects foul mind play" Prolly pretty pissed off at the guy, hence we'd plot a little revenge.
We would think nothing of him, but we'd think plenty about him.

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Old 29th April 2003, 21:57   #43
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You can't dismiss a point based on a stereotype by pointing out exceptions to that stereotype. That's the inherant nature of them.

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Old 29th April 2003, 23:19   #44
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all I detected was that a bully beat up one guy in a group of friends. Well, where I come from, we'd get together and beat the big guy up.
DING DING DING! We finally have a winner, just the answer I was looking for Great! thanks a lot. Well, consider America the rich bully, and everyone else the world.

THe group says, "come on now, be calm, we haven't proven that he was being perverse!"

The bully "Fuck that before he thinks anything ill of me, I'm going to beat that fag up good!"

Community tries to stop but the bully get's his way and pummels the gay guy.

The End?

No, everyone now hates the bully, and
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hence we'd plot a little revenge
!

Get it! Everything you see on TV is not the entire truth. There is more than meets the eye. Helping the world? No, helping ourselves, that's the motto of the country buddy, wake up and start reading between the lines.

I feel much better now.....

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Old 30th April 2003, 02:31   #45
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I'd like to see France, England, and Germany take us on. It'll never happen.

Schoolyard fights are nothing like War, Phily. There's more at stake than shame or teeth. You should know that.

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Old 30th April 2003, 02:33   #46
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Originally posted by Fickle
I'd like to see France, England, and Germany take us on. It'll never happen.

Schoolyard fights are nothing like War, Phily. There's more at stake than shame or teeth. You should know that.
lol if they ever attacked, they must have a very compelling reason, then the whole world would join in..... u basically fucked.
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Old 30th April 2003, 06:32   #47
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Originally posted by Fickle
Schoolyard fights are nothing like War, Phily. There's more at stake than shame or teeth. You should know that.
I never mentioned schoolyard bullies.

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Old 1st May 2003, 07:32   #48
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you're probably right about it being as simple as "Jealousy". I've been raised on American pop culture growing up. films, music, tv, everything. It's only recently that I've look at American with doubtful eyes. Around the time sep 11th happened, I kept on saying to other people, "atleast America hasn't tried to take over the world". I feel at bit naive in saying that now.

Maybe it's time to start blaming America's most reliable source of oil - argentina, for this whole mess, if the oil workers there hadn't gone on strike, maybe installing a "stable" government in Iraq wouldn't have happened, or could have happened in a much more democratic process.

Your ideas and throughts are greatly welcomed on this subject, I can see the reason's for an invasion of Iraq and why the removal of Saddam is good for Iraq. What I hope you understand is the same democratic freedom that you all wish for Iraq is the same freedom I would like to see returned to your country - the good ol' US of A.

Am I "Jealous" of America, maybe... yes... well once... a long time ago... come to think of it, not of your politics... or your pornographic desire for guns... or your fear of your next door neighbour... by the way, have you checked what he's up to right now?

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Old 1st May 2003, 18:31   #49
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I don't hold water with the Jealous factor. I never really did. I don't believe people are jealous of us, and I really don't care. I do note that lots of people are trying to get in, but they're coming from places like Mexico and Cuba, places where crime and evil and currption make our cities look like a Maypole Dance.

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Old 2nd May 2003, 02:53   #50
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you're right, people look towards America and see a better life for themselves (isn't that why most of you are their today?), the thing that causes the trouble is that the different cultures don't tend to realize that intergrating into a mutli-cultural cooking pot takes time and patience, otherwise you ruin the soup and burn the pot. Slimmer, don't boil. with the distances between countries growing shorter and shorter each day (ie "the internet"), we need to realize that at some stage we're going to have to just get along. despite what we think or do.

I've made a silly mistake and I've learnt from it, the "left" was wrong, we went after the wrong issue. And now the "right" seems to have the exclusive rights to things like "democracy", "freedom" and "liberation". While the "left" get stuck with a wimpy-old olive branch called "peace" - woohoo.

The real issue is currently staying at 1600 Pencilvainya Avenue (dubya's spelling - not mind).

"wimpy-old olive branch"

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Old 2nd May 2003, 03:24   #51
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Actually, G.W. is on the USS Licoln...but, I get your point. Your right to a degree. The "left" had ideas that were noble and true, but I believe to a certain degree that over-amplification took place and the big picture was lost to them.

But it all comes out in the wash, and I think we're getting toward the spin cycle.

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Old 2nd May 2003, 07:14   #52
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Maybe I explained myself wrongly, the big picture was always straight forward, ask anyone who went against this war, they didn't want Saddam in power of Iraq anymore than the next Donny Rumsfield. The things that we got wrong was that this would be a bloody and costly war like vietnam (reminder: how much does it cost per day to fight a war? must look into that) In the end the US victory (opps! prevailed) was done with less innocent deaths than expected (please tell me you have some sympathy in this area). The street fighting in baghdad never happened and the army that was going to repel the invaders went AWOL. Face it, if this war wasn't sold by a bunch of shady, crack smoking (check: http://www.beastieboys.com/av/iawgm_lyrics.php, end of first verse) leaders of the free world.

"wartime" leader. more like the 4th stooge.

pieces

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Old 2nd May 2003, 17:47   #53
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I'm not a heartless twat. I know that innocents died and I am sorry that it happened. But to call the mission a failure or a step under destruction of the Iraqi people is just foolish.

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Old 2nd May 2003, 19:17   #54
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From a military perspective, this war has been extremely succesfull, civilian casualies have been amazingly low, anyone who claim otherwise is naive.

I haven't changed my stance though, And ahead lies the real challenge for America...
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Old 3rd May 2003, 04:16   #55
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I forgot to finished off that last sentence (edit time had expired), I meant to add that this war would have had the backing of much more countries (france, germany and russia included) if the Americans had been less gung-ho about the whole thing. I also never said that the mission was a failure (although Saddam's now on the run like Osama), quite the opposite, But america can't call this war a victory yet, doing that would require POWs to be set free.

Let the UN inspectors back into Iraq, britain has called for it, every other country has called for it.

The US is going to have trouble gaining crediblity from the rest of the world if it finds any WMDs.

No ones against America (I'm personally sick of everyone throwing around the words anti-american, and is party the reason why I'm voicing my concern in this forum) in this crisis, we just want you guys to do the right thing.

Remember how much support you got after sep11, all that support is slowly vanishing, guess why, you may all love your president, but unfortanely the rest of the world views him as threat.

http://www.yougov.com/yougov_website...U020101126.pdf

It's a british survey, the biggest backers of this war, check page 3 and one question in particular "who of the following poses a greater threat to world peace?"

god damn! I've changed my mind, he's the greatest president the US has ever had, next to Nixon of course.

that's all folks

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Old 3rd May 2003, 06:41   #56
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Me, I am "anit-american" or whatever. I do hate the US's government and guess what? I live in the US (wow!).
I see the USA as an imperialist nation out to gain only for its self, not to help anyone else out. (if we truly wanted to "liberate" the Iraqie people, why did we just not say that fromt he begining, but no there was this talk about disarming Iraq (do you even remeber that? No?). And it only turned to "liberating" the Iraqie people after disarmerment failed, hell the y where disarming whatever they had, but we attacked anyways, and guess what? No wepons of mass distruction!)

What does Iraq have they, say Tibet does not? OIL, who worked with an oil company or is being payed by oil suits? THE BUSH ADMIN.! Who will help "rebuild" the Iraqie oil infrastructur (sp?) Halliburton, who worked for Halliburton, Our Vice-president. Who basicly runs the show, a bunch of people that is not Bushie Jr. What is wrong there? Oil suits run or nation. (dont try to get off and say they are investing 1.2 billion $USD in hydrogen, b/ where will the H come from under that research? OIL! Not the chemical reaction that seporates the 2 hydrogen atoms from the oxygen atom from Water, but from the good old fossil fule of OIL!)
Why would I support "representitives" that are far from representive of the people?

I just see a HUGE ammont of hypocrecy from our governmet that I just can not support, I dont care if you say "but it is the best gove out there" It is not good enough to me.

Go ahead, say I am a fool, I know that, but I try to stive to know more then the average american (if my social studies class is a good representive of the american population, 4 or 5 people out of 31 know jack shit!)

Why did we get attacked? B/ we where being imperialistisic, imposing our own ideas on people that didnt want a thing to do with it. Let people be, sure there are some not too nice people int he world, but going and installing "US Like" governments only makes more problems when they go and vote someone as "president" that the US would HATE, and then deniy the people form the president they voted for, and just appointed someone as president.

At times I think we need the USSR back again, it helped balace out the power in the world, it was at least USA vs USSR, not USA vs. anyone and everyone. (sure, I was not old enough to know shit about the USSR when it collapsed, but there needs to be an "evil" to balace out stuff)
I dont care what you think, go about your normal lives americans, never think for ourselfs, we think for you, never take off your media blinders, CNN says everyhing you should know, go about your happy ignorent consumerism, we love it.
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Old 3rd May 2003, 08:47   #57
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great, full power to you. you don't like what the government is doing, then vote Bush out of office, I don't think he's supposed to be there anyway.

It may help to know that the USA has one of the worse voter turnouts in the world.

vote the Bush cartel back to texas, na na na na, hey hey-hey, goodbye.

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Old 3rd May 2003, 13:02   #58
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Screw the USA - love the Americans

USA was about the last place I ever wanted to go, but suddenly I found myself in San Francisco and REALLY liked the place.

I met really nice people (mostly Mexicans and Irish though) that were just as critical of their own government as we "Euro-hippies" are.

Fight nationalism everywhere!

Remember Denmark participated in the USA led assault on Iraq - with a submarine... Also, the company Maersk made big bucks transporting American tanks, so guess what?! ...of course they've been offered to partake in the "rebuilding" of Iraq. Their stocks are up and climbing. Our facist government has taken 300 million DKR meant for aid to Africa to finance the aid-programme in Iraq. There was a TV show for raising more money for Iraq. I feel sorry for those who paid up! All they get is a conscience relief. What did Maersk pay?

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Old 3rd May 2003, 23:25   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by theworm
great, full power to you. you don't like what the government is doing, then vote Bush out of office, I don't think he's supposed to be there anyway.

It may help to know that the USA has one of the worse voter turnouts in the world.
I know it is sad, that 1/4 of the US's population actulay voted for Bush.

Well my problem is that the goverment thinks that once you turn 18 you can think and anything before that you are a worthless idiot. So I will be 2 weeks too young to vote in the 2004 election, I just hope we get a better presidential cannadite then Bush, and people will not be brainwatshed by Bushes election campaign.
So, I am too young to vote now, but I do feel I know far more aobut some politics then most people over 18, hell half of them didnt even vote, that is sad.

Sure there are worse places on the world, but they are 3rd world nations.
If the US wants to help selected 3rd world nations out, why not all of them? Make the world a better place to live, not just your own "homeland"

*the department of homeland panic is reading this post, and sending troops over to capture this "terrorist"*
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Old 4th May 2003, 10:00   #60
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First, all the stuff doesn't depend on elections at all, not only in US but in any other country too. Whoever is selected he's never a real ruler. Second, Saddam was NOT the worst leader in the world, but(i don't know if CNN or NBC mentioned it) Iraq has a second place in the whole world of oil quantity. Third, when you've begun (I mean Afghanistan and so on) it's really difficult to stop. And last, I strongly believe that September 11 was done by CIA or another suchlike service to get the opportunity to fuck all Middle east
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Old 4th May 2003, 12:32   #61
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People ask me where I stood politically you know. It's not that I disagree with Bush's economic policy or his foreign policy. But that I believe he was a child of Satan here to destroy the planet Earth.

Yeah, I'm a little a little to the left there, I was. I was leaning that way.
And that conspiracy theory does looks almost plausable.

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Old 4th May 2003, 15:53   #62
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Originally posted by $hark
And last, I strongly believe that September 11 was done by CIA or another suchlike service to get the opportunity to fuck all Middle east

I was thinking that the goverment had planed out that hole "terrorist" attack and everthing. But then with all the other media hype, I didnt think it could have happend, untill the govermnet did not use a 3rd part analist group to figure out that the casue of it was. It is as if they are hiding something.

I also remeber that the Republican party was going to attack Iraq long befor Bush was president (1999). Some people that are now in control of the country wrote some plan up that goes that this : We will slowly move to attacking Iraq unless another Pear Harbor happens, then we will go quickly.
No, that made me think, they here going to attack logn ago, and the mentions another Pear Harbor like attack, hmm.... the WTC/Pentagon attack was basicly like that... they wnat to attack Iraq... now thay can do it quickly.... Is this staged? Must have been.
OH and speaking of being staged! Dont get me started about all that staged propogand that was being ared on all the news stations. "Saddam Statue falls" STAGED!

Wow, I have to cool off.
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Old 5th May 2003, 03:01   #63
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I'd like some documents to prove your bullshit theorems about staged stuff. Maybe a suggestion, but I doubt the Iraqis were paid to tear down Saddams statue.

I doubt the CIA is behind the WTC. Mainly because they were already in hot water in the publics eye for all the bullshit they've been doing for the last 40 years. I'm begging you to give me documents that show the the Republicans were planning on Iraqi Invasion.

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Old 5th May 2003, 06:05   #64
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OK, show me the documents proving the necessity to invade Iraq.
And, as for WTC, there are no documents proving it was done by Osama(if he exists at all). And, if he exists - I doubt he's such an idiot - he had to realize what would happen after that.
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Old 5th May 2003, 06:38   #65
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the documents supposedly written by osama (in places) that were found would bring lie to that one, $hark. unless you think they were planted... but if you're gonna have to go down that line you must remember that there's no real proof that we have access to that there was a war in iraq at all...

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Old 5th May 2003, 08:41   #66
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To go further, there's a version that Neil Armstrong had never been on the Moon and it was just a huge fake. But to be serious, Osama is an excellent reason to grab all the oil that isn't yet grabbed. And please don't tell me about democracy, weapons of mass destruction and so on.
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Old 5th May 2003, 08:54   #67
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i've already talked too much about this on this forum. just do a search or something.

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Old 6th May 2003, 01:11   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
I'd like some documents to prove your bullshit theorems about staged stuff. Maybe a suggestion, but I doubt the Iraqis were paid to tear down Saddams statue.

I doubt the CIA is behind the WTC. Mainly because they were already in hot water in the publics eye for all the bullshit they've been doing for the last 40 years. I'm begging you to give me documents that show the the Republicans were planning on Iraqi Invasion.
http://www.hermes-press.com/keys9_11.htm

then again there are "documents" that prove we do not exist. So this servers no real purpose.

Sure the CIA might not have been behind it, it still doenst mean they every tryed it from happening.

And the Republican part on the Iraqie war, I can not find it this minute, and I dont really feal like digging around right now.
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Old 7th May 2003, 00:40   #69
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Woa, an I thought I was paranoid.

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Old 7th May 2003, 02:08   #70
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as the thread starter

Checking back to see, this thread has now become a conspiracy theory?

I have to say this isn't the purpose of this thread. The purpose of the thread was to explain and reason 'why we are hated' 'why we shouldn't be blamed'...... good stuff.

But this BS of 9/11. even if you don't believe the fine filtered mainstream media, you shouldn't automatically jump on a totally right extremist view. 9/11 was plotted by the CIA! psshh!! that's really dumb buddy, real dumb thing to say.

A) During and before 9/11, America showed very pausible sign of recovery from this recession. If you trully believe the government is selfish in their own greedy fashion, to do whatever in it's power to make themselves more rich, why would they go out and allow the Financial Heart of America to collapse, Their Central Intelligence to hault....... plunging it's country in an even further downturn.

Lowering consumer confidence / security
>which lead to lower sales / loss in profit
>which lead to heavy company budgeting
>which lead to job cuts
>which further fuels lower sales

Which equates to me graduating last year as a Mechanical Engineer from a acclaimed college with no job. Less that 30% of my graduating classmates actually knew what they were doing once June rolled around. I now work for a very well acclaimed company, but nonetheless.......

Bush ofcourse had to retaliated. Bomb and chased Bin Laden. Unsuccessful! Turned it's attention to Iraq. Kept pressing until the world turned it's back to him. Bush had to keep pressing because the economy took another dip because of the countries uncertainty,.... if he backed down 2 months ago, the recent economical dip would have happened all for nothing.... war would recover some of the loss, and possibly more.

Result, cheaper gas, a stimulant for the economy. Yet the economy still sucks!

Do you think the economy would have been WORSE if the US stopped 9/11.


I know this is a WINAMP forum but let's think for a second before spitting out your wildest dreams.



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Old 7th May 2003, 06:32   #71
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It only depends on where your interests in the ecconmy lie, the type of companies and what they do. Lockheed Martin have done pretty well after 11/9 for example.

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Old 7th May 2003, 23:02   #72
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yeah, well it specializes in manufacturing military vehicles, planes, weapons, huge contract with the government...........

i guess then Lockheed Martin was the one fueling the movement towards war then.... BRILLIANT!
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Old 7th May 2003, 23:44   #73
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All I am saying is you never now.
Notice how our constitution is now about useless with the "Patriot Act"? All to make us safer? From ourselfs?
All I am saying is that the terrorist acts did work as intended, they changed the government, a lot. I dont care how safe I am an all, I just want my privacy and my Constitution back. That is why I hate the US (Bush Admin.)
Well and the copyright laws, and the law system, and the Cops.....
Sure the economy sucks, it has for some time, it will, but it might recover. and the war related comp's loved this "war" More money to them.
*useless*
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Old 8th May 2003, 06:34   #74
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Search for Haliburton on these forums RyuRyu.

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Old 8th May 2003, 08:08   #75
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Re: as the thread starter

Quote:
Originally posted by RyuRyu

I have to say this isn't the purpose of this thread. The purpose of the thread was to explain and reason 'why we are hated' 'why we shouldn't be blamed'...... good stuff.

If you wanted to know, why americans are hated in almost all countries of the world, including US (!) it is really simple. When you're told that you behave like an american it means that you're rude,insolent, don't caring about others' opinions. That's stereotype, of course, but look how your country behaves in UN and in all foreign affairs. Maybe stereotypes work sometimes ?
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Old 8th May 2003, 20:28   #76
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$hark, you say you are from russia, does that mean you are old enough to remeber the USSR's rule? I am just trying to get some unbiased (ie, US media) views on its later stages (like after Stalin, and that N guys name that I can not spell).

How many of the bush admin. have worked or own in the Oil industry? A lot. So, was Iraq about "freeing" people or taking their oil?
I give you a situation for you: It is in the 1860's with the American civil war going on, France never attacked Mexico, and the Mexicans created a large military force and attacked to "liberate" the Americans from their oppresive rulers that where forcing them to go to war. Mexico, seeing the Americans are fighting each other, and are weakend, easily get took over the the invading mexicans, liberating them. I personaly wouldnt like to be controled by a foregen force.

America is only in it for itself, the gov't dosent care about other nations, only about what could be best for the few eleet, that have an ass load of money already.
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Old 8th May 2003, 22:30   #77
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Re: as the thread starter

Quote:
Originally posted by RyuRyu
Checking back to see, this thread has now become a conspiracy theory?

I have to say this isn't the purpose of this thread. The purpose of the thread was to explain and reason 'why we are hated' 'why we shouldn't be blamed'...... good stuff.

Ummmm....just because you started the thread doesn't mean you can command the topic. This is a forum and many subjects get moved around. Subjects evolve. Luckily, your interruption (whether it is "your thread", which it's not) didn't sway the conversation, despite an attempt to bring us back to praising you and your wonderful topic .



I don't agree with many of America's policies, but I still stand behind it. Just because you dislike someones nose doesn't mean you can kill them. In the same way, why hate the entire US because of some of the things we do.

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Old 8th May 2003, 22:34   #78
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America = freedom for all!?!

Being from Britain I can honestly say we are not jealous of America. I would love to take this opportunity to take the piss out of Bush (which we all know could be easily done) but our Prime Minister is basically Bush's pet dog, so I can't say anything. But anyway, I think Americans, not all, but a lot give out an impression that they are very ignorant, gun-ho and arrogant. And being anti-war is definately not unpatriotic, it is just disagreeing with the reasons for the war. I know Americans have an obsession with communism and the great 'threat' it is on our world (and I don't agree with Communism personally) but why must the USA put their noses in everyone's elses business. The war in Iraq was not for Iraqi's, it was for the Bush administration and their oil barons. There are many other countries in the world needing help but they have nothing to offer. American are definately seen as the bullies of the world, and when someone stands up to them, e.g. Germany and France, they get offended. You can't have it your own way all the time, this time though, you did!

And I wasn't saying Iraq was anything to do with Communism, just a side thought. I was thinking more of North Korea
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Old 8th May 2003, 22:48   #79
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anyone there?
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Old 9th May 2003, 02:44   #80
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Yes.
about the commies. I only like then b/ it was some unknown treat, something that made the US worry, someone that could bullie the US back around. Now that it is gone, the US is free to police the world, something that is not too good, seeing they go for their own good, not the worlds.
THe UN is a joke to the US, at least they act that way.
The world needs a police for the police (US). Something that is not happening.
I dislike bush, and dont know many younger ppl that do like him.
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