Old 9th May 2003, 03:15   #81
RyuRyu
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oh silly fickle

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Ummmm....just because you started the thread doesn't mean you can command the topic. This is a forum and many subjects get moved around. Subjects evolve. Luckily, your interruption (whether it is "your thread", which it's not) didn't sway the conversation, despite an attempt to bring us back to praising you and your wonderful topic .
theres really only so few worthy commentators in this forum and they all happened to be those that you are arguing against. Is this your version of retaliating for my previous conversation with you? Quite childish I would say, and again a good example of the simple and short sighted views of a typical yahoo.

As far as communism, America represents the pinnacle of the so called 'Capitalistic' achievement. Money, and in order for the further expansion of it's power and capability, it would need it's neighbor to govern themselves under similar system, thereby able to sell US products to them. Thereby America was in every battle fighting against communism, to ensure it's ultimate future. If anybody were to take basic ECON class in college, you would realize the great influence Marxism has stamped into our own American economical system, quite hypocritical.

Anyway communism in Russia everntually failed because of human greed. The common Russian soon realized that others outside Russia could achieve such wealth and material property, while such things were so heavily regulated in their own country. Communism would have indeed been the system that created global peace and harmony but unfortuantely Marx gave too much credential to people.


Kyrse, atleast your country has politicians that have enough guts to walk out on their prime minister. Very powerful. I find it suspicious that none of our cabinet members feel ill about our foreign activities. Actually Colin Powell was the first to speak out against a War but he was quickly taken away from the lime light, sent on a foreign mission, and returned with his tail between his legs.

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Old 9th May 2003, 08:06   #82
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No, I don't like the commies, and the majority of people in my country agree with me. But that's nothing to do with US. You know, right after USSR was destroyed, most of the population were just adoring the US, all that was considered to be "like in the West", and so on. But just after 10 years it's all gone. It is simple to explain - in USSR we haven't seen and met americans and now we do and know what they are like - sorry guys, but it's really true
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Old 9th May 2003, 10:43   #83
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It's true about the politicians walking out, bravo to them! Well done good sirs. But apart from Robin Cook there was noone high up who resigned. Also we had about 6 members who promised to resign, then wimped out (Claire Short is the worst!) Anyway, just wanna say they all seem to have way too many flaws which scares the life out of me. These people are meant to look after us!
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Old 9th May 2003, 16:58   #84
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Re: oh silly fickle

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Originally posted by RyuRyu
theres really only so few worthy commentators in this forum and they all happened to be those that you are arguing against. Is this your version of retaliating for my previous conversation with you? Quite childish I would say, and again a good example of the simple and short sighted views of a typical yahoo.

As far as communism, America represents the pinnacle of the so called 'Capitalistic' achievement. Money, and in order for the further expansion of it's power and capability, it would need it's neighbor to govern themselves under similar system, thereby able to sell US products to them. Thereby America was in every battle fighting against communism, to ensure it's ultimate future. If anybody were to take basic ECON class in college, you would realize the great influence Marxism has stamped into our own American economical system, quite hypocritical.

Anyway communism in Russia everntually failed because of human greed. The common Russian soon realized that others outside Russia could achieve such wealth and material property, while such things were so heavily regulated in their own country. Communism would have indeed been the system that created global peace and harmony but unfortuantely Marx gave too much credential to people.


Kyrse, atleast your country has politicians that have enough guts to walk out on their prime minister. Very powerful. I find it suspicious that none of our cabinet members feel ill about our foreign activities. Actually Colin Powell was the first to speak out against a War but he was quickly taken away from the lime light, sent on a foreign mission, and returned with his tail between his legs.

Gutless
Sorry, I just labelled you as a n00b who thought he has control over all conversations he's involved with. Thanks for proving me right. It was no retaliation, I happen to think you're a decent thinking person, but since you've called me a "yahoo" because I asked you which part of nJ you visited and you NEVER ANSWERED ME, I figured I'd give you a little taste of reality. Just because you started the thread doesn't make you a Mod who can tell people off because you're trying to change the conversation.

Communism is a pipe dream. Human nature has made attempts at it fail miserably ever since it's inception. Anybody who took simple Social Studies in 5th grade knows this.

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Old 10th May 2003, 23:53   #85
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Originally posted by theworm
Maybe it's time to start blaming America's most reliable source of oil - argentina, for this whole mess, if the oil workers there hadn't gone on strike, maybe installing a "stable" government in Iraq wouldn't have happened, or could have happened in a much more democratic process.
[/B]
Well, You maight blame others countries for Americas mistakes. But Argentina is not USA most stable oil supplier. Its not even exporting oil as far as I know.. The country your should be targetting in this case is Venezuela. Some thousans miles further north.



GenRabbit out..
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Old 11th May 2003, 03:54   #86
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I consider myself more anti-American than pro-American, but I feel this story does have two sides.

Pro-American: Americans have built their country up as a land of opportunity, where people can come and be treated fairly. You have the freedom to do pretty much anything you want if you set your mind to it, as long as it falls within the law. A lot of people in your country have a genuine desire to help people from other countries, and I respect that. Another part of your image you have is that you're powerful. I see the need to maintain this image, because it's part of what's keeping the rest of the world from attacking you, for your wealth and maybe from jealousy too. Most of the reason you were attacked on 9/11 was because of hate stirred up under the name of religion, a religion which is mostly peaceful, and the majority of Americans didn't react negatively to Islam after that attack. In order to keep your facade of strength, targeting a strike on Afghanistan was a fairly good move. If America was really all that bad, they would have sent missiles flying everywhere they thought an Al-Quaida (spelling?) base could be, all over the Middle-East. Instead, they overthrew a corrupt, oppressive government, the Taliban, in a country where the mastermind of the attack was being protected.

Anti-American: There is such a thing as going too far. I'm not just talking about the war on terrorism, but let's start with that. While the war on Afghanistan was largely supported, the war on Iraq was not. All I was hearing for weeks on CNN (yes I get CNN in Canada) was how Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction, not about how Iraqis were suffering. The entire thing was based around the premise of how the weapons inspectors weren't doing their job fast enough etc. About a day before the war began, it started shifting focus. Suddenly they were justifying the war because of the plight of the Iraqi people. Granted, they were suffering, but so are the Saudi people, and a lot of other people in the Middle-East. The Americans aren't doing anything about the Saudis, are they? Not that I can see!
Shifting away from the war, I'm remembering a Summer Olympic gold-medal match, it was some one-on-one fight between a Canadian and an American. The Canadian offered to shake hands with the American. The American ignored the Canadian gesture, discarding it as if the Canadian was inferior. I'm not going to mention who won, but the gesture strengthens the American stereotype. At the 2002 Winter Olympics, the American men's hockey team had the Canadian flag on the floor of their locker room. They said it was a gesture of respect, but it makes me wonder what the Americans would have thought if there was an American flag on the floor of the Canadian's locker room. Probably that it was meant to collect any dirt and sweat that fell on the floor. I'm not too sure about American law, but treating an American flag like that on American soil would probably have gotten the Canadians arested. Respect indeed!

I could probably go on for hours on the Anti-American part... But I haven't the time. All I can say to end this post is, there are good Americans and there are bad Americans. No stereotype applies to every member of any group. I hope Americans can acquire a better reputation in the future.

Just remember... Reputations have to be earned.

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 11th May 2003, 08:28   #87
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I've been wronged! Your right, I didn't actually do any research into what I had heard (there's a leason there kids).

To clear up the matter, Argentina does export to the US although not that much.

I'm sorry for misleading the forum, but I'm going to research this a bit further.

Just for the record, I am not from the United States.

-always wrong

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Old 11th May 2003, 09:11   #88
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Just remember... Reputations have to be earned.
Indeed reputation needs to be earned, with great effort, but can be lost in a flash of a year. Quite honestly I don't think we would be able to regain any respect by the global citizen within the next 15 yrs.

As far as the reason for war, you have indeed studied CNN very well and have noticed the shifting pattern, which is Great! I myself never watched it because it's repetitive boredom, I only keep up on current affairs through BBC and NewsWeek.

It's funny America did instigate this war with the reason of WMD, but eventually shifted it to Humanitarian reasons at the end, focusing and repeating the image of the toppoling of the stature, over and over again, making people trully believe that the war was a complete success. But if Humanitarian was original concern for the almighty America, aren't there other countries around the world that are begging on they knees for support? What about them. Why Iraq? Wheres the proof, the smoking gun? Why now?

In the end the war was a success in terms of overthrowing a totalitarian government, but an utter failure to control the power vacancy, an equally important task and reprecotion.

Why is it that when you cross the Canadian - American border, people tend to be a little more open minded?
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Old 11th May 2003, 09:15   #89
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And the scary thing is, hardly anybody cared about Iraq.

As soon as the media discussed WMD possibility with Iraq, people started jumping on that.

And as soon as the media shifted towards Humanitarian goals, everyone became so concerned about the need to show the Irqians, their version of democracy, which would never work.

The media is so powerful. It's like a mind controlling drug.
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Old 11th May 2003, 09:36   #90
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I just don't understand. Are you all trying to find a reason which was really worth attacking ? If Venezuela's oil workers didn't strike, we would see the war later, but it was absolutely unavoidable(for Bush, I mean). Northern Korea is extremely lucky not to have oil, therefore koreans can do almost whatever they want.And, as for media, it always serves its owner - it might be noticeable or not but still it's always trying to be "a mind controlling drug".
By the way, are there any foreign TV channels in US, I mean more or less covering the majority of the country ?
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Old 11th May 2003, 17:57   #91
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foreign tv stations in the US? None, unless this OLN counts, it seems every foreign, I mean there is no Nascar, no hicksvillness on it, just some weard sailers, hunters, looks like canadians

I live in michigan, but on the other side, away from Canada, and no such foreign TV.
The only one I have seen was when I was in hawaii, so there was a lot of odd Japanese stuff on TV, and some CNNfs or something. And it was just as bad as normal CNN.

The only hope for americans is to get online and look up the news.
This is another problem that must be addressed, we has basicly 5 media companyes that give the population basicly everything. So they will lie and not cover stuff that might insult them.
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Old 11th May 2003, 23:09   #92
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Are there any stations in the US that show alternative points of view to the, 'we are always doing the right thing, even when it's blatently wrong'. I mean Micheal Moore and Bill Hicks seem to be the only Americans I've seen actually telling people. But then I dont live in America so what do I know????
P.S. also I know Bill Hicks is dead over 10 years but what he says about the first Bush basically can be about the new 'President'
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Old 12th May 2003, 22:27   #93
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Umm.. alterative TV, impossible from what I have seen. The only "alterative" stuff is like NPR radio, and this collage station by me.
So I can understand why many people are so ignorent, they actilay have to work for the real news, and not to get brainwashed by CNN.
There are too little people actulay trying to speek out on about everything, it is baslicly "we agree with everything the govermnet says" It is horrible.
But then again I am not the most knowlageable in the land of TV seeing I have baslicy stoped watching the lies and filth on it.
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Old 13th May 2003, 12:09   #94
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The way this topic has turned, i now pity you unlucky guys and gals in the USA. Lets think of countries/societies as individuals. The USA is the child of a parent who used violence to teach it it's place in the world. To leave "home" and become free it had to do some weights and backhand mean old dad. Now it thinks that's a good way to resolve the harder issues with others. It associates with other troubled youths (Australia and the other supporters) and even old dad. They get scared by people doing things differently, so they biff them and sometimes steal their lunch money (or extort it, or trick them out of it eg. "free" trade). Mabey these guys had better get real jobs doing something constructive for a change. I guess the problem lies in the fact constructive things tend to generate far less money.

Planting trees is constructive, but that only pays us in oxygen, ozone, normal sea levels. Who want's that crap? You can't buy ex-military Hummers with that!?
Looking after the underpriveleged is constructive, but they only pay us with happier societies. Who wants that? You can't buy a gun with that!?
We could try to learn from other cultures and religions to promote understanding of ourselves and our world, that would be constructive. But then who would we sell weapons to and who could we fight?
Nah... I'm gonna stay in my bubble, the TV will tell me what I need to know. I supposed to buy some more locks because we're on "orange alert".
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Old 14th May 2003, 02:44   #95
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To make your point, you've stated a blunder. The US has more trees per acre now than it did in 1883.

I'm unsubscribing to this thread, as I no longer care. You guys keep swapping info and pretend you're doing the world a favor by breeding hate towards the US.

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Old 14th May 2003, 12:17   #96
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Good to hear, planting trees is good. Now try uprooting some industry and buying cars that aren't so fucking huge. Insecure people in Australia are buying SUVs too, why not just get penis enlargments. Tell me, how much carbon dioxide was being produced by industrialisation in 1883? Besides, it's not just the US that didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol. Australia didn't either, I think it sucks that 1st world countries can't even set an example by helping that little bit.
I like Americans, at least, the ones I've met. I just don't like your media, hollywood hype (and 90% of your movies), some peoples blind patriotism, your love of guns, and your international actions. You've done some pretty good things for others too, if someone could list them for me I'd like it. Don't try to tell me how good it was to win wars either, we joined those bloodbaths too. The only thing worse than loosing a war is winning one.
You've also got a beautiful country and a lot of other things going for you.
I can even understand and forgive your over zealous patriotism. You're pumped so full of: "We live in the greatest country in the world" or "God bless America" that I've heard that more times than my own national anthem.
I don't hate America, but I'm just sure as hell not jelous of you either.

We share the greatest planet in our solar system. God/Allah/Buddha/Krishna bless EVERYTHING.
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Old 19th May 2003, 12:54   #97
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i think what i hate most about americans are their blind patrotism, refusing to see the flaws that american society does have.

Personally, i don't think that one country can be called the greatest/best, all have it's strengths and weakneses.

I would prefer a mix, like the liberal attitude of Holland and Scandinavia, Swiss Internationalism, Hong Kong/Singapore style cultural melting pot, Thai Beaches and weather, Scandinavian Education and Welfare system, Latin mañana mentality, African and Asian spirituality.....

Unfortunantly i can't have all that in one place Allthough i think i'm gonna move to one of the city's around the world who has alot of different cultures living side by side.

I'm never going to forget where i came from though, and it's allright to be proud of your country, many americans just seem to over do it.
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Old 23rd May 2003, 15:32   #98
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well well well.
i dont agree with any form of war. I'm from England and most of my friends hate George Dubya. He seems like he's finishing business for his dad, and then some. Sure, Saddam hussein was a mentalist, but really, is there any need in randomly obliterating Baghdad. Did they find him? no! Did they find any weapons of mass destruction? NO! so what was it all about? is George Bush just flexing americas proverbial muscles so noone else tries any dodgy stuff? maybe he's some form of alien who hates earth and wants to end it...
Keep the peace. especially you "Mr President"

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Old 25th May 2003, 08:37   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
[Bthe fact that if you win a state you win all the mandates from it (which i think is very unfair)[/B]
Well, it's nice to have opinions. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think the US should change its centuries old practice to suit their opinion though. If the beloved Gore had one, no one would be whining about it. Or maybe you would..

There is a reason for it being the way it is though. Things are the way they are in order to give smaller states a slightly larger say than they would have otherwise. Each state gets a proporionate number of representatives to the lower house of congress rougly equal to their proportion of the US population. In addition, each state gets two senators (for the upper house). Thus, even the smallest state has three representatives (and electoral votes) even if their population would dictate only one in a strictly proportional system.

This, by design, gives smaller states a bit more of a say than they would have in a pure popular vote system. It was set up this way as a deliberate compromise between having each state have an equal say, and having each state's say be based purely on population.

A lot of thought, debate, wrangling and compromise went into the system, and I for one am sick of people bellyaching that they know better just because they are bitter that their preferred candidate didn't win (esp when the person moaning is from another country. boohoo). It has happened before and it will happen again.
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the corporate sponsorships of campaigns
Corporate, union sponsored, special interest funded, hollywood controlled whatever. I agree here.
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and the fact that you only have two parties that count for anything...
Having two is a happy effect of the winner take all system of all electoral votes from a state going to the winner of the state, but this, again, is a good thing. Having two parties by nature prevents extremist parties from ever gaining power. Since we can do nothing but give our opinions here, I personally think the chaotic coalitions necessary to form a government in so many european countries are less than ideal (While I too am now voicing opinions about other coutnries' system, it is only in response to the same thing having already been done to me) Case in point: all the worry in Austria about that right winger (Jörg Haider) coming to power. That would never happen in a two party system (make all your crappy Bush = Nazi jokes here, they won't be unexpected, original, or accurate)

Anyway, people are of course welcome to disagree with American policy. I just tire of ill informed mitching and boning about our political system, which system I feel is well thought out and has stood the test of time.
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Old 25th May 2003, 08:43   #100
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re: why my family owns a 20 foot pickup truck and an SUV: Wyoming is full of dirt rads, tracks that are something less than a road, and copious amounts of snow in the winter, with many of the roads connecting towns an hundred miles apart with nothing in between (read: the last place you want to get stuck).

People in Los Angeles who own SUVs make me laugh/pissed, but there are places where they serve a purpose. There are places here where an Audi A4 Quattro just wouldn't cut it.

Of course, the vast majority of Americans don't live in such wild places (Obviously: they are empty after all) so I don't disagree that too many americans own SUVs. Just saying that sometimes big cars have a purpose.
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Old 26th May 2003, 04:51   #101
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no form of government can ever be perfect, and yes for a long time the US democratic elections worked well. Yet the last election you had was an utter mess. We're not trying to get you to change your "centuries old" system (explain the patriots act I & II to me), maybe if you just think about it a little bit more.

And yes I'm welcome to my opinion, and I look forward to keeping it. How long before your not entitled to have one?

-the worm

edit. of course big cars (SUVs) have a purpose. most people would agree with you, if you need one (ie rugged country) then fine. If you need to pick up the kids from school or drive to work along the express then get off the ****ing road.
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Old 26th May 2003, 17:41   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by theworm
And yes I'm welcome to my opinion, and I look forward to keeping it. How long before your not entitled to have one?
I am saying 2007, if bush gets "reelected"

Quote:
edit. of course big cars (SUVs) have a purpose. most people would agree with you, if you need one (ie rugged country) then fine. If you need to pick up the kids from school or drive to work along the express then get off the ****ing road. [/B]
I agree, but why would you use the BMW or Volvo SUV for off-road driving? Most SUV's are not made to go off-road, and then, hold no use other than to suck down gas like mad and flip over.
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Old 28th May 2003, 01:50   #103
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i love god. can't we all get along?

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Old 28th May 2003, 02:29   #104
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I throught we were all getting along, unless any of you have any pre-emptive strikes planned?

are we all agree'd on SUV's? great.

-I'm off to the supermarket

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Old 2nd June 2003, 17:00   #105
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theres really only so few worthy commentators in this forum and they all happened to be those that you are arguing against.
ryuryu your arrogance blew me away. Really. that was one of the most closeminded statements i have ever seen.
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Old 16th June 2003, 17:32   #106
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To me, the U.S. is the best country because it is where i live and will always live. This is not arrogance, this is pride and it has nothing to do with politics or the government "manipulating my mind through the media." We may have problems, but so do all countries. People from outside the U.S. who love to insult this country should know something. Don't speak about a country you know nothing about. You speak of us having a poor exposure to world views. What makes yours any better? Nothing does. In other words, don't speak up if you are no better. And to those in the U.S. who say the U.S. has a shallow and materialistic culture, i suggest you leave your little suburb. Your little sheltered corner in your home. Have you people ever seen a real American? Probably not. You are the ones who speak of yourselves. You are the materialistic Americans who think that every American strives to be what you are. Again, to those who live outside the U.S. Even if we have the money, why would we want to all travel to another country? Especially when we go there and get treated like shit if we mention or give clues that we are American. Why would we go to other countries when the chances of facing the fate of Daniel Pearl are no longer low, not even in Europe are we safe. Many talk of the U.S. being isolated. Yes, we are isolated in a social aspect. No one country as a whole in the world respects the U.S. and its citizens at all. Why do you think we act the way we do? You created our isolationist policies, not us. We just respond to the cold shoulder you give us. But what happens when your cold feelings that are directed to the U.S. go to far? You get George Bush. You get the majority opinion that you see in the U.S. today. The "fuck the UN" majority that supports war for our own good. Despite what you want to think, we are not manipulated by our media. We actually watch the anti-u.s. rhetoric that flows through yours. From France to Asia. You create our feelings towards the world. Don't blame our feelings of feeling cornered and looked down upon on us. Blame yourselves. This is the USA you wanted all along, isn't it? Like anyone else, we only take abuse for so long before we start striking back. Look at Iraq. Look how we overstepped the UN. This is only the beginning of a precedent George Bush has set. Call it a revolution if you will. Now you will have a harder time complaining of globalization. Most of the companies you complain that do human rights violations are not even American owned anymore anyway. And when we pull out of the UN, which will hopefully happen. Your invalid arguments will just fall apart. You will be exposed as you are. You hate for the sake of hating. You just love finding the scapegoat and try to tear them apart. Believe me, the U.S. is not ancient Rome. We pull out our funding in the world market and everywhere from Europe to Asia will be in chaos. Who relies on who? Think before you speak and stop thinking what you see in our media and your media or anything speaking about the U.S. is what we are. Because that is ignorance.
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Old 16th June 2003, 17:53   #107
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Zeph, are you by change a republican?
B/ what you are saying is a bunch of CRAP (IMO).
"You created our isolationist policies, not us" Umm... how can forgien nations make OUR policies? They dont, We make them. And many nations want to cooperate with the US but the US blasts them and tells them to shut up.
YES I am an american, and I hate it.
The UN is crucial, if we bail on that, the world would turn against us and our imperialism, why do you think the UN was fourmed? To help solve global issues, and if the US bails on something it help make, we would be labed as self centers imperialist, wait, it has already happend, and are labed that, so nothing new.
If you think Murdoch (soon to be owner of ALL media, thans to the FCC) does not control your mind and media is a truly open forum to discussion and all, you truly are falling for its lies. It is owned by a sinlg company, and that company will say what "news" gets shown and what is never reported.

Anyways Golalization is not a good thing, let other peoples cultures do their own thing, and if you dont like it , too bad.

Sure the USA has it's good points, but it is far too corpritized to relize what they are without getting "ENRON" slamed in your face.

Side note, 4 in 10 congress people are millionares, and that the poorest one is still living in the upper middle class level. That is not really representive of the US majority now is it? They represent the rich and powerful, not the poor lower-class.
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Old 16th June 2003, 18:26   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by laz9999
All I am saying is you never now.
Notice how our constitution is now about useless with the "Patriot Act"? All to make us safer? From ourselfs?
All I am saying is that the terrorist acts did work as intended, they changed the government, a lot. I dont care how safe I am an all, I just want my privacy and my Constitution back. That is why I hate the US (Bush Admin.)
Well and the copyright laws, and the law system, and the Cops.....
Sure the economy sucks, it has for some time, it will, but it might recover. and the war related comp's loved this "war" More money to them.
*useless*
AMEN!

This REPUBLIC is going downhill fast.........

If ANYONE wants to contest my calling the goverment a REPUBLIC please DO NOT POST!

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Old 16th June 2003, 18:54   #109
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Same old, same old. Heard the same words you spit out over a million times. Do you people like laz9999 have a manuscript in front of you telling you what to say?
BTW, i don't align myself with any political label.
Also, if you get a cold feeling from a country or countries. D you want to keep ties with them if it continues for a long while (say over years and years). No, you don't. So the decision starts with the nation that is treating you as worthless. Don't even act like the U.S. is the only guilty one and that all other countries are just victims. That is what a bunch of crap is like.

How is the UN crucial. Especially with the mess they dragged into in 1999 and the Balkans. Especially how they are the largest reason the U.S. has the bad image it has today. I suggest you look at the facts. The UN countries use us as a pawn for our powers. You really believe that the CIA was ordered by our presidents to carry out "missions". No, it was because of the submission to the UN to get jobs finished that they wanted done. I don't call manipulation wanting to cooperate. You are so blind to see that the UN is not in any way good. I'm not one of the ones that will say, "If you don't like this country, get out." But i will say you have probably bitched about every possible thing wrong with this country. Yet you won't get off your ass and do something about it (past the protests you might attend--which that does not do anything). Why not stop complaining on message boards and do something for your community.
Hmmm...is this message board or the internet as a whole controlled by the FCC, i don't think so. Does the FCC control the minds of people who report in the media, no. Your beliefs seem to be manipulated by who knows what, free media? Do you even know what news channels i watch or what news sites i go to? My views on the world come from numerous international news outlets. If they only came from CNN or FOX i wouldn't be half as involved as i am now in discussions like this. What makes it so wrong that American news channels cut down the slamming of the U.S. to minimum and what makes the media better in other countries because they love to rip this country apart..
You support the UN but are against globalization? Again, open your eyes. Why do you think the UN manipulates its members for? Surely not to keep peace. Why are U.S. forces called an occupying force yet UN forces are called peacekeepers. It is called submission through ignorance. Let the UN colonize using troops of others and call it keeping the peace. Look at the wonders the UN has done for the French control of the Ivory Coast and surrounding places. No one ever speaks of that. France has the right in the eyes of the IC.
Have you really checked who really owned the most of Enron before it collapsed. I can tell you it probably wasn't an American or American(s)
Wow! 4 in 10 members in congress are millionaires. Well 10 out of 10 rap artists nowadays are too. What meaning does that have? None. How thick their pockets are does not always manipulate their train of thought. Do you know how they think inside their minds? The majority of them know what it is to be in an average family. Some of them may have even been raised in a "poor lower class" family. How much money they have does not represent them. They EARN that money for the hard work they have done. If anything, "the poor lower class" could take inspiration from that. If you aren't willing to notice the possibilities and opportunities in this country that are right in front of your face, then you may as well just keep to yourself. Not everything you are told by Indymedia and Democracy Now isn't total truth either.
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Old 16th June 2003, 19:04   #110
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Zeph, do me a favor..........

DO NOT CRITISIZE ME FOR POSTING MY OPINION!

At this point I have no interest in world affairs, it's all the same anyway.......

When everyonbe is getting along call me until then.......(expletives deleted) (flaming phrase deleted)

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Old 16th June 2003, 19:09   #111
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Why do people whine with just a little exposure to debating? And why did you come her Janus if you don't have any interest in world affairs?
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Old 16th June 2003, 19:16   #112
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1. I did not whine......
2. I thought I would see what others thought of the US.......
3. I was under the impression that haveing no interest in world affairs made you a patriot! (that is the way most people seem to express patriotism nowadays)
4. Just DROP IT ZEPH!

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Old 16th June 2003, 19:52   #113
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Welcome to the forums Zeph.
I do think a lot of contradicting ideas and such, and I get confused by them. I know the Poor have all the opertunities to become rich and powerful. But they do have mnay chalanges, like how to go to collage to get a degree to get a good job, if they have no money, and schollorships(sp?) are not enough.
But they use it as a crutch to want to get handouts, and they does not make them want to try hard to get money... so there are problems. Sure somethimes they need the money, to stay alive, but most do not.
About the media, I am just saying that the average Joe and jane american does not go to the computer and look for less biased points of views, they turn on their TV and put on CNN or Fox News or MSNBC or whatever station they like. So they are not really getting much of others views. I know I am not getting enough views to truly form unbiased opinions, but then again it is impossivble.
The UN is only good when they do not used force to solve issues. War can never truly solve problems. So that is their problem. I just want them to be a peaceful forum to solve problems, and have nations to help them do that. Not what they are today. Kindof like then it was originaly thought up of, not what it is today. So ya... I am a hypocrite in ways.
I dont really want this to be a flame war or whatnot. I just wanted to post my views.
And I would try to change the governmet, but there is little minor can do, my congresspeople dont give a shit about my ideas, they just want to side with big buisness, not the consumers.
And I was just pointing out that 4 in 10 congressmen (fuck politicaly correctness) are millionares, and they are ment to REPRESENT the american people. I dont care if they made their money by hard work, what I dont like is when they get it form their family, so they dont have to work at all in their life.

Yes I am an idiot, I to try to find more views, ya indymedia is not that good, I only care about some events they report on, like protestes (and ya, they do little to change things in this day and age)

Well I am out for a week, so I dont care what you think.
Enjoy the open forum, and the freedom we have. Who know how much longer we will have this freedom with the TIA and Patriot acts in place now.
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Old 16th June 2003, 19:57   #114
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ok, i can understand the backlash us americans get from the world. we are arrogant, simple fact, because we hold a lot of power. but when the international community needs our help... we give it, we'll bitch and moan, but we'll help.

prime example: I was living in the philippines when a huge earthquake pretty much devatated the nation (1989?). US military installations opened the hospitals and galvanized their resources to help. hell, they had so many people trying to donate blood, that they had to shut down the blood bank, they didn't have enough space! we did search and rescue, loaned heavy equipment to go thru the rubble, and soo much more. but what pissed me off... the philippine gov't majorly downplaying our actions. no formal recgonition of our efforts and support. that was a slap in the face. but, hey, that's life for us... and now, the philippines wants our help again fighting islamic extremists in mindanao, and again we'll help them out.
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Old 16th June 2003, 22:49   #115
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Like you said ShyShy, our actions were downplayed by the Phillipine governement and now they want our help. We all know this happens over and over and over again in places other than the Phillipines. I would like to ask many from outside the U.S., where was our help on 9/11. No one stepped up and did a thing. Many were probably busy sitting back like it was a great event to watch, like a action movie watching buildings falling on innocent American citizens. While Palestinians were dancing in the streets and many others were celebrating on the inside from Europe to Asia. And the IC wonders why we are going in alone in Iraq. And we are said to be wanting the oil. What will be the reason you make up for us when we go into North Korea if needed? The rice?
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Old 17th June 2003, 00:51   #116
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No one did anything with 9/11? OK, it was a long time ago, but there are some things I do remember:
Some of the southern Canadian hospitals were taking 9/11 patients. Canada sent ambulances, fire trucks, and held blood drives to help you with 9/11. There's probably more stuff that I can't remember at the moment.

Also, during a blizzard a couple years ago, Toronto sent out our snowplows to help bail you out. A lot of American electricity comes from Canada. And our troops, as well as those of some other countries, were in the field with you in Afghanistan. We didn't come with you to Iraq because YOU WENT TOO FAR.

Anyway, I couldn't write much more than that without repeating myself. My views on America and the war on Iraq in general can be found earlier in this thread, but here's a link for those who don't want to search it out:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....911#post953911

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents (1 cent American)

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 17th June 2003, 01:09   #117
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zeph, your posts smack of contradiction, poor research and general ignorance. if you're going to defend your country, don't be an idiot. that doesn't help.

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Old 17th June 2003, 01:23   #118
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Yeah, OK. I'll listen to a "fan" of Noam Chomsky. To you, everything i say to defend this country would be full of contradiction and ignorance. If you would bother to research before making comments you would know that i am not the ignorant one.
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Old 17th June 2003, 01:28   #119
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hmm.

how about this.

i researched.

i don't hate america.

i think it's ok. it has problems, what country doesn't?

you, however, are doing a very backwards job of defending your country. you're making it seem worse.

arguments like yours are the reason people hate america.

just. give. up.




also: on the noam chomsky note, i don't consider myself a "fan" - i do consider the quote in my signature something so obvious that it needed to be pointed out. i believe that to be ironic, and i thought the quote was quite poignant.

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Old 17th June 2003, 03:12   #120
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ok, my rant was mainly directed to the philippine govt.


and yes, i'm half filippino, and after living there, i'm so glad to be an american.
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