Old 17th June 2003, 14:22   #121
zootm
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my flatmate (and long-time friend) is half filippino. his family over here supports a lot of people over there. it's not a great place to be...

their government will tend to downplay the actions of the US, and other people who give aid, for the simple reason that they want and need more. i think they believe that by downplaying what they do get, they might force the people of the US to make their govt give more. this won't, of course, happen, but it could be their hope. also simply playing to the common dislike of people who are better off will keep them on good grounds with their citizens - another reason they'd do that kind of thing.

and what would gratitude get them? nothing.

i hate politics like that.

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Old 17th June 2003, 14:47   #122
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i was going to quoute you... but hey, posting right after you works just fine...



Thanks zootm, for understanding so well what my rant was about. when i read abot the stupid things that govt does, i go into denial mode about that part of my hereitage. wrong, i know, but sometimes that country can be so shameful.
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Old 23rd June 2003, 02:40   #123
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dear zeph,

how do I start? Well, for one I admire your passion, being proud of your country is not a bad thing. Yes be proud that your an American, born and bred, america has done some mighty fine things over it's lifetime, and like every other country it's done some pretty shocking stuff as well.

Well that's about all I admire or respect in you. Sorry to say that, every other person on this forum, I've respected their intelligence and their opinion, despite whether I agree or disagree with their polictics. You unfortanely fall under the catergory of "not worth the time or the effort" (ironic how long I've spent on this post)

I'm sorry you feel scared right now, but basic animal instinct dictates that animals only really attack if they're scared or hungrey. I get the feeling that if your weren't so scared your posts wouldn't be quite so aggressive. Or are you really hungrey?

I can't actually remember what this forum started off about (does it matter anymore), but I've always maintained that I have nothing against Americans. Hence I get annoyed as being labelled anti-american when I try to enter into any debate on this subject.

So you don't align yourself with any particular polictical group, so do you vote? I like to think you do, but I'm guessing not. If you do then good, if not well... come back here later when your of age to do so.

Your 'anti-world' views (rants) don't help your case. In fact I'm not sure if your posts have been purely satirical or entirely serious. I've heard some intelligent views on the War on Iraq (for both sides), yet I doubt you've done any serious throught on the issue at all.

So pray to your god,
and keep close your hand gun,
Osama's still out there,
and Saddam on the run,
it's an orange alert,
are you stocked with duct tape,
with dubya to prtotect you,
is america still being raped?

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Old 23rd June 2003, 02:47   #124
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*Applauds*

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 23rd June 2003, 18:00   #125
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"but basic animal instinct dictates that animals only really attack if they're scared or hungrey"
Nice try at trying to generalize. But you even know that is wrong. I'm really sick (and bored) of seeing posts like yours. Do you even know one thing about people in the U.S. No you don't. What you label debate does not appear to be that at all.

"..yet I doubt you've done any serious throught on the issue at all."
And you have? Only from the outside looking in.

What you are saying is the same old "points" i always see from those like you. You say you are trying to introduce debate. But it always comes off as looking like you have a handbook telling you what to say when certain viewpoints that you DISRESPECT arise. Or when they mention they are American. Because you know deep down inside you have a bias. It appears in your words you use.


"I'm not sure if your posts have been purely satirical or entirely serious."
Like i have said in other places before, you can be anyone you want on the internet. Thats all i will say about that.
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Old 23rd June 2003, 18:26   #126
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I have nothing against Americans. My grandparents are American. I have many aunts and uncles who live in America. There are a lot of nice Americans. A lot of the Americans I've met on this forum an elsewhere online are very nice people.
The people I don't like are the people who think that just because America has nuclear weapons, a large military force, and a really high GDP, that they're better than the rest of the world, that they have the right to decide what's best for the rest of the world, against the consultations of the committee that's been chosen to make those decisions.
The people I don't like are the people who think that just because they were born in America, that somehow their place of birth makes them better than other people.
The people I don't like are the people who flame people who are just stating their opinions, who don't take the time to read their arguments, who just blatantly assume that because I dislike a few Americans, I hate them all.
I grant everyone a certain amount of respect. If I get flamed for this, that person is just going to lose some of that respect. Whether that means anything to them, I don't know. But I do know that it will take a lot for me to take anything that person says seriously again.

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 23rd June 2003, 20:20   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeph
I'm really sick (and bored) of seeing posts like yours. Do you even know one thing about people in the U.S. No you don't.
that would appear to make two of you.

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Old 24th June 2003, 03:25   #128
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Zeph, quit the shit and become a communist. It should make everybody happy.

It's strange how people who are for the US seem to become very arrogant ans biting (me included). Maybe it's because we are violent by nature.

Look. America has it's problems. Admit to it. We fuck things up and we hide shit. It's true. We do it to our selves. Hell, we still don't even know who killed JFK, because it's too dark and conspiratorial for the government to have people prying and looking into.
But. The US is accused of a lot of stuff that is slanted and distorted, just like propaganda against the English (which I'm sure arose, but just wasn't shouted as loud as the Anti-US sentiment. Would anybody feel good about having thier country bashed by someone out of it? Hell no.
I happen to like it here, not for the government, but because I believe things can change for the better, and I like living near the shore and having my family near me.

Zootm, man you're too cool for words. You're welcome to my place any time. I'll even give you a beer. I won't pay air fare, but a walk on the original boardwalk will pay for itself.

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Old 24th June 2003, 03:38   #129
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and thank you fickle for adding some realism to this thread, i for one am getting weary of ALL the bashing. maybe time for everyone to take a break. and zoot is cool as always.
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Old 24th June 2003, 05:06   #130
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i'm being praised, but i don't know why. could be time for the sunglasses smiley.

yes, i think it is

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Old 24th June 2003, 05:15   #131
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zoot, you've had perfect timing with the third person perspective, which i think acts like the bucket of cold water thrown onto our hot tempers. so accept the praise...
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Old 24th June 2003, 15:36   #132
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...wasn't fishing for compliments there, but thank you.

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Old 24th June 2003, 23:24   #133
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I guess I don't know anything about living in the US. Yes I am an outsider looking in, does that make my views any less valid? It probably makes them even more valid. Truth be told, did every one miss the little point I made about actually liking Americans and the US. Of course I have a bias against America, I'm proud of where I live, I'm not going to ditch my national pride just to say America is the greatest. Just because I have that bias doesn't mean I hate the USA and everything in it, no. Does that make my country perfect? No, I know where I live is just as messed up in some ways as the US, I know it's problems, I try to help those problems when I can. I don't ignore them and pretend like I'm living in some little wonderland.

It's obvious I don't know what it's like to live America. You've proven that(all of you).

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peace
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Old 24th June 2003, 23:59   #134
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"Of course I have a bias against America, I'm proud of where I live, I'm not going to ditch my national pride just to say America is the greatest."
When an American says this, they are considered being arrogant. Even by their own, such as Fickle.
In my eyes there is a difference between arrogant and defensive when the image of your country is pissed on and ripped apart every day.
No U.S. citizen i have ever spoken to has EVER said their country is perfect.
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Old 25th June 2003, 01:18   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by theworm


-theworm
"now where did I place my copy of "how to hate the US in 5 easy steps"?"

peace


LOL , i liked that
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Old 25th June 2003, 02:26   #136
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To be honest, you cannot judge a country fairly when you've never been there. I've never been to Any of Europe, so it's all pretty level to me. But there are people out there who hate america when they don't even know what it's like here. They assume they know because they read the newspapers or watch the news or read an American Author. Take a walk in my shoes, and you can tell me how rotten I (or any american) is, but until you can say you've lived in America, held a job, scraped for cash, drank our whiskey, eat our food, actually live here for awhile, then you can tell me how rotten I am.
But something tells me you won't be able to do that. Just like I wouldn't be able to do the same thing to your country.
So let's all go out in the middle of the Atlantic and have a Kodak moment, okay?

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Old 25th June 2003, 04:59   #137
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i've never been to america. i have met many americans, i know many people who know americans and have been to america, and so on and so forth - i base my opinions upon that. americans are not bad people, any more than anywhere else. a lot of the time they seem disproportionately proud, and a lot of them equate "partriotism" with "unquestioning idiotic loyalism" - but the majority are fine. the fact people talk ill of them in particular so often is their government's attempts to govern the world. some people simply have to realise that they aren't always right. that's all it'll take.

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Old 26th June 2003, 07:11   #138
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Zeph, maybe I was wrong about you. Yes your absolutely right, there is a difference between arrogrance and national pride. But first impressions are real easy to make, and your big intro into this forum was way too aggressive.

Fickle, again another person on point today, of course you can't judge a country fairly looking in from the outside, but remember that society has never placed much conviction in judging fairly my shoes are probably the same as yours, just standing on a different piece of land.

Does it have to be the atlantic? The pacific's so much warmer, I'll bring the camera, it's a little bit old but still works ok, can bring some film (I'm flat broke) and if anyone has a tripod, bring that as well.

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Old 27th June 2003, 02:24   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by theworm

Does it have to be the atlantic? The pacific's so much warmer, I'll bring the camera, it's a little bit old but still works ok, can bring some film (I'm flat broke) and if anyone has a tripod, bring that as well.

-theworm
"entertaining shyshy since yesterday"
i'm with theworm, pacific is a whole lot nicer for the group pic, and i've got the hook up with the film (courtesy of the US Army). so, someone has to bring the tripod.

and thanks for the entertainment
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Old 27th June 2003, 03:29   #140
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I'll admit, I haven't gone that many places into the US... and only one place recently. When I was younger, I went to L.A. once, to visit my grandparents, I went to Michigan often to see my aunt and uncle, and I went to family reunions in upstate New York.
Those were all quite a while ago, (3 years at least for the family reunion, 6 or 7 at least for the trips to Michigan, 10 at least for the trip to L.A.), so I'm not going to remark on what impression of he U.S. those left on me, because I honestly can't remember.

But in May 2002, I went, on a high school trip, to NYC (The Theatre District of Manhattan). Our tour guides couldn't warn us enough about scams and thieves, and always to stay in groups of at least 3. The streets were filthy. I couldn't walk a block without getting nervous. The lack of plantlife was disgusting. Then again, to get there, we drove through upstate New York, and I found it very beautiful and peaceful. And Central Park was... well it was OK. It wasn't far enoguh away from all that concrete-and-asphault (sp?) prison that was the main city, but it was definitely better.
The moral: Don't visit NYC (j/k)
The real moral: No country, no state, not even a city, is made up of all the same thing. Stereotypes are always bad things, because none of them are accurate, unless they're redundant (like "all killers are killers"). Don't judge. That's up to the judiciary system, and, if you believe in Him, to God. No one else has the right to judge another person, especially by race, creed, sex, age, or nationality.
Now, that being said, can we please cloase this thread? Please?

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Old 27th June 2003, 04:37   #141
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I know what you mean about NYC, but the Theatre district isn't the best place. But I'll venture to say that most cities have that part of them, the part that makes you wonder why the hell you took the time to get there, if it was this dirty. I've had the same feelings in Philadelphia, Atlantic City, Anchorage, Boston, etc. They' aren't the cleanest places. As I've said many times before, I can take you places where You'd never think it was the same continent, neverthe less the same country or state for that matter.

Oh, and the Atlantic 'Cause it's closer to me, and I figured closer to the Europeans. But, uh okay, who's paying my airfare?

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Old 3rd July 2003, 18:28   #142
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Hmmm, how can one add input to such a volatile subject without getting shot down in flames?

Naturally, I'll have to speak as a UK resident. (Though I am technically French.)

As a long-time UK resident, I have acquired the formal and rigid stance shared my many UKers.

In truth, I both dislike and admire the Americans. I admire their liberal attitude towards a great many subjects. I admire their passion towards their country. (See below.) I admire their overall lust for life.

I dislike their "Our country is so big, you can't touch us" attitude. It seems childish at best and akin to the "My Dad is bigger than your Dad " argument, I used to hear at junior school.

I dislike their "price of everything and value of nothing" attitude.

I dislike (really means don't understand) their sense of humour.

Sorry, of course, I am generalising. How can I not? But it's just my quick shot at adding input to a very wide and complex subject.
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Old 3rd July 2003, 18:47   #143
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Alright, first off, you seem like you judge us based on an attitude that is NOT widely held in our country. Not all Americans (Myself included) think that we are untouchable. I believe September 11 proved that.

Secondly, we as a whole value a lot of various things. Do not judge us based on our politicians, whom for the most part, are in it for the oil. Rather, judge us on the people who live here, work here, and die here. We work hard for what we have, and we value so much.
We value our freedom, which we are lucky to say the least we have, we value life, and so much more it would be pointless to list.

Lastly, our sense of humor leaves something to be desired, I know that, but you have to get used to it to understand it. I myself do not get some of the jokes spread around here, but I also don't get some of that dry, British humor, I guess it's just your location.
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Old 3rd July 2003, 19:27   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by DragonSon
Secondly, we as a whole value a lot of various things. Do not judge us based on our politicians...
Understood. As I stated, there was a huge dose of generalisation from me. I can only go by my own perception of what I see, hear and read, etc.
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Old 4th July 2003, 02:07   #145
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Quote:
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Understood. As I stated, there was a huge dose of generalisation from me. I can only go by my own perception of what I see, hear and read, etc.

Yes, I understand. But you shouldn't always believe what you see hear and read. Sometimes they are fabricated in such a way as to make America look bad.
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Old 4th July 2003, 15:54   #146
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Quote:
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Yes, I understand. But you shouldn't always believe what you see hear and read. Sometimes they are fabricated in such a way as to make America look bad.
sometimes they're fabricated to make america look good, too. it works both ways.

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Old 4th July 2003, 18:02   #147
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And you're saying other countries don't make fabrications to make THEM look good?
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Old 4th July 2003, 19:42   #148
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The US has good points and bad points, just like every other country. The US is not the source of all that is good, neither is it the source of all evil in the world.

I've seen our government do things that made me proud to be an American. I've seen things that made me cringe.

I refuse to be one of those that automatically believes there is a secret plot behind every government move...but I also refuse to blindly follow everything they say and keep my wits about me for if they are discovered.

I do not believe that our way of life is the best or what everyone should follow and have. Does that mean I don't like it? Not at all...but some areas just ARE NOT READY or DON'T WANT to do what we do. I accept that and would let them live as they wish, personally.

I am an American...I was born here and raised here. Right now, the powers that be make me cringe with what they're doing (two wars, one still ongoing, despite the supposed victory, economy going down the gutter, jobs all going overseas, a congress pushing for an Amendment that would be a great source of discrimination against a large segment of the population, monopolies getting slaps on the wrists and told to play nice or not being noticed at all) and I look forward to the next election day when there will be a change (Hopefully...and hopefully for the better).

We need to step back and look at what's happening, fellow Americans. Blindly charging forward and going 'America rocks, America is great, America can do no wrong and cannot be stopped' is what got us where we are to begin with. Companies striving to make every bit of profit they can are the reason most of our courts are clogged with lawsuits and our jobs are disappering. Even the US government has given the Unions a cold shoulder on their proposed new way of handling how overtime is figured.

America is great...but it can be greater...and it needs people to wake up and stop blindly following our elected leaders and start doing something for change before we end up NOT being great.

My 2 cents+ for any that care to read.
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Old 5th July 2003, 02:46   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by DracoVulpine
The US has good points and bad points, just like every other country.



Yes, but it seems to me that these days, that we are the only country being persecuted for our bad points.
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Old 5th July 2003, 13:39   #150
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Quote:
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Yes, but it seems to me that these days, that we are the only country being persecuted for our bad points.
Ahhhh...right now, yes. Primarily because of the government we have at present and the policy of 'this is what we're going to do...we don't care what you think'.

This was a president that just told terrorist groups and such to 'Bring it on' after all. His publicists and speech writers had to be cringing when he came up with that jewel.

Granted, though, it's not all Bush. We have built up a history of sticking our nose, dollar, and military power where it really doesn't belong. Some presidents were worse than others.

On another note, ever notice how one moment, countries of the world can be complaining about our interference in areas...yet the next moment, ask us to step in and do something about a problem in that same area? Ever wonder why our government doesn't just say 'No...all you do is complain about how we interfere...deal with this one yourself'?
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Old 5th July 2003, 16:21   #151
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Quote:
Originally posted by DracoVulpine
Ever wonder why our government doesn't just say 'No...all you do is complain about how we interfere...deal with this one yourself'?

at times i wish our government would just say that, but then it would turn around on us and most of the international community would then say we're being cold hearted, and blah,blah,blah. "damned if we don't, damned if we do".
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Old 7th July 2003, 05:33   #152
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShyShy
"damned if we don't, damned if we do".


I believe I pointed that fact out previously. Although I have always heard/seen it as 'Damned if we do, Damned if we don't.'
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Old 7th July 2003, 05:57   #153
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Quote:
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I believe I pointed that fact out previously. Although I have always heard/seen it as 'Damned if we do, Damned if we don't.'

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Old 7th July 2003, 06:00   #154
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You know I love ya honey.
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Old 8th July 2003, 05:09   #155
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It's true, we will always be hounded, whether we help people or fuck them royally up the wazoo. All I can say is that I still like my country and the rights our forefathers gave us (those few which are still around), and I will wave my flag proudly as a part of the United States of America, as you would the UK or France or wherever you may reside. I may not support what it does all the time, but I support the idea that started it.

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Old 8th July 2003, 05:17   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
I still like my country and the rights our forefathers gave us (those few which are still around)
I haven't noticed, which one's have we lost?
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Old 8th July 2003, 06:15   #157
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I wonder the exact same thing...
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Old 9th July 2003, 02:54   #158
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Privacy ring a bell?

How about the right to property? The US government can move into your property to build a service of the masses. Such as, a road. And they only have to give you a percentage of the properties worth. Some places, not even that.

The right to have wars declared by Congress.

The Right to print money. The Federal Researve is not Federal by any means. It is a private company that makes money for 3.5 cents and then charges the full amount of the bill. It is government funded because the gov't buys the money, that's it.

The right to have a militia. One most people agree with, now that we have federal armies.

States rights to increase Tariffs.

I've got a bunch of them. Want more?

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Old 9th July 2003, 04:01   #159
DragonSon
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
Privacy ring a bell?



Strange...I feel private enough right now. And if you bring up the fact that they have satellites that can look through walls, I don't have anything to hide, so they can look at me all they want...and if they want to watch while I make sweet love to my fiance, well....more power to them.
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Old 9th July 2003, 04:10   #160
Fickle
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Strange, having the right to bash down your door if they catch you saying something "odd" in any context...
Or maybe the simple fact that they teach your kids to rat you out if you smoke pot or something. That's unreal.. Hitler used these tactics.

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