Old 7th July 2003, 04:27   #41
spiderbaby1958
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Ahhh! Suddenly. it's just so much more civilized in here.
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Old 8th July 2003, 05:25   #42
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spiderbaby, quit being such a wuss and read some posts by a fairly intelligent human being. You're a spoiled brat who can't take an argument or actual debate without having to childishly ignore the other side. You are effectively sticking your fingers into your ears and singing while he tries to make a point. If you did that to me, to my face, You'd have a fist in your mouth after your second round of "la-la-la"s. I don't take a lot of petty baby bullshit anywhere, especially people who are trying to tell me that Bush is an asshole because he lies and then worship Clinton because he gets more action than they've seen in years in a couple of weekends with an ass munching dirty slut of an intern.
If you don't agree, amke a statement. Don't be such a fucking moron.
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Old 8th July 2003, 12:31   #43
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/me predicts spiderboy's responce to fickle's post

:thinks to self: damn! must all these people prove me wrong and show what an ass am! Now I haev to try to look "cool and annoyed" again! hm......

Fickle, your post is wrong in so many ways that I don't have time to tell you what is wrong. If you want to not be ignorant, look at it again and try to find your many errors. Until then, Welcome to my ignore list.

:thinks to self again: i hope that worked



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Old 8th July 2003, 14:41   #44
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Ummm...yeah...okay...

To start off...yes...I have major issues with Bush for lying and TAKING US TO WAR with his lies. People were talking about impeaching Clinton for having an affair and lied about it to the voters, no one seems to care that Bush lied. Bush's lie continues to add more and more American casualties as every day goes by. Clinton's lie cost us TV time. I really 'don't' see how one can even hold a candle to the other.

I, personally, didn't like Saddam. Good riddance. But...we should have been told the TRUTH...the REAL reasons we were going over there. So that Congress and the rest of the US could make a more informed decision on whether we should go to war rather than fear mongering. "Oh! He's trying to get nukes! Oh! He's got chemical weapons and is selling them to terrorists!" Still waiting for all those chemical weapons depots we heard about in all these intelligence reports to be unearthed and all these dangerous chemical weapons he had get disposed of. *ahem* Anyway...

Bush gave tax cuts to the rich...to try and stimulate the economy...it didn't work because the rich already have the money, the big bank accounts...all they do is put more money into the stock market...which is going up...yay for the stock market. But is that making new jobs? Is that helping the common voter make his utility/mortgage/rent? No. Why? Because Bush isn't addressing some of the most serious issues out there right now. The true impact of 9/11...Enron...all the companies sending their jobs overseas...companies buying out other companies and then consolidating and "streamlining" things...(aka...firing people and giving the non-fired people more work to do...usually with a decrease in benefits). Want to make more jobs? Want to cut taxes? How about giving businesses tax cuts dependent on how many US employees they have? How about penalizing companies for every job they send overseas? How about making companies that buy out others be reviewed to make sure things are handled fairly for employees of both companies?

As for the entire 'treaty' issue. I say again, "It shouldn't have been signed" ISN'T A VALID REASON!! If every country decided that treaties are only good for laying on the floor to paper train your canine companions...then they become USELESS and NO ONE would make them anymore. Treaties are basically a promise. A country breaks enough of them and gee...suddenly, no one wants to make treaties with that country anymore. Renegotiate or mutual agreement to get rid of the agreement as 'not working' should be the way to go with any treaty. THAT'S IT! Are we no better than North Korea, who broke their Treaty with us over their having a Nuclear Weapons program? Are we no better than Iraq who decided to kick out the weapons inspectors the first time, despite the treaty that said they would allow them to continue their work?

I'm sure they both believed it 'wasn't working' or 'should never have been signed'.

What if Bush signs a treaty and then the next president we elect decides "Bush was stupid" and breaks it? Will our treaties only be good for as long as the President that signed it is in office?

tiger84...to be honest, your responses are insulting and childish, even from the start. *FLAW ALERT* indeed...

A bad government breaks treaties whenever it suits its purpose.

The mere fact that you can say a government is 'bad' isn't a sign that it's good. A good government would be working to improve their country and the world in general, not pushing their agenda down the throat of the world while letting their own country be run into the ground by the corporations and rich.

I live in America...registered as a Republican voter due to the Reagan era. Started watching politics closely since Clinton (I grew up). I had some issues with Clinton...I have tons more with Bush and the Congress he's got backing him. Just hoping for a nice change and an improvement come election day.
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Old 8th July 2003, 15:07   #45
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please....

For all those who disgust those who disagree with outside "America bashers"....do you realize that by calling them "dumb", "stupid", and all that other crap, you are doing the same thing you are fighting against??? How many over you get your information about these people and nations from the news? Anyone with a brain knows the news is mostly useless. It is a biased media outlet. All news is, no matter the station or nation, and it cannot be taken as the absolute truth. So CNN shows a picture of the French protesting and says "They disagree with our war". What it misses in reporting is why they do disagree, or that there are those who support us in France, or that the French don't hate America, just disagree with actions we take at the time. But CNN doesnt tell us this, and the public forms stupid opinions. Secondly, who has been out of this nation to France, or Germany, Asia or Africa? Who has talked to a citizen of that nation for an unbiased and unfiltered opinion? Who has respect for others cultures? Who turns the other cheek? Who understands that we would do the same thing as a nation that "America bashers" and their goverments are doing if the roles were reversed and we where in there shoes and they in ours. Not to toot my own horn, but I have been around, done "home-stays", and am mature in my world view. I suspect that most here will not feel the same as I. It is to be expected. Ignorant people spout ignorant babble. But this is America...a great place. You are free to say what you wish, and that doesnt bother me. So long as you give me and others the same respect.

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Old 8th July 2003, 17:32   #46
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Yea, i think we shouldn't have gone to war either. I mean, who caers how many thousands (illions even) of people sadam killed? not me. lets save our amercican lives! Our soldires didn't sign up for teh army thinking they woudl actually be shot at. It's jsut not fair!
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Old 8th July 2003, 17:59   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by DracoVulpine
Ummm...yeah...okay...

To start off...yes...I have major issues with Bush for lying and TAKING US TO WAR with his lies. People were talking about impeaching Clinton for having an affair and lied about it to the voters, no one seems to care that Bush lied. Bush's lie continues to add more and more American casualties as every day goes by. Clinton's lie cost us TV time. I really 'don't' see how one can even hold a candle to the other.
.
.
.
The mere fact that you can say a government is 'bad' isn't a sign that it's good. A good government would be working to improve their country and the world in general, not pushing their agenda down the throat of the world while letting their own country be run into the ground by the corporations and rich.
First of all, talk about Bush killing people. You can't unless you mention the whole Black Hawk Down incident, which is Clinton's fault. Tell me that was good. And there are more of those incidents that are Clinton's fault that people turned a blind eye to, but you never saw the news media talking about it like it was his fault. Then there was Kosovo, so don't even start attacking Bush until you accept Clinton was even worse since he did things at a suspicious time and with no real effect (i.e. Dessert Fox, what the hell was that?) Second, you have no idea how much classified information there is that guides decisions every day. Where would we be today if back in the '40's we had said, "Well, Hitler is a bad guy, but lets just leave him alone, he isn't really hurting anyone." And the truth of the matter is, you have no idea what Saddam was doing, but Bush and the rest of his administration have a much better idea than you. Bush is not lying, he believes what he is telling you. Just wait a little bit and see what becomes unclassified. And the fact of the matter is it is a proven fact that Saddam was attempting to get the nuke...thats just the way it is. Never, did the Bush administration once say that he actually had nukes. Saddam is not the kind of person that you trust.

About your treaty argument. If we made a treaty with some other country that said we would help it enslave an entire race, I'm pretty sure you would be demanding we ignore the treaty and not take the time to renegotiate it. You have to consider a country's intentions when it breaks a treaty. A bad government does not break treaties, a bad government doesn't do what is in the best interest of its people (countries such as China and Iraq before the war) And I'm pretty sure Saddam didn't think they weren't working, I think he thought they were working...too well I might add. Why would he expell them if there was nothing to find. And people talk about the US not respecting the UN, but they never once scolded Iraq for not respectiong the UN and it's mandates (which, I might add, are completely useless).

Tax issues:
Bush's intention was not to rejuvinate the economy, it was to pay back people who had paid too much in taxes. The economy was just his excuse to get it through congress and what not. And before you start telling me that Bush is bad for the economy, understand that he has very little impact on the economy. Most of what a president does for the economy is meaningless and any thing that works takes time to work...there is no such thing as instant gradification in the economy. The thing I can't understand is why everyone expects everything to work instantly. Also, recessions are a natural part of the economy, and this one didn't have to be so bad. Why didn't Clinton do anything to regulate those internet companies? Looks like I'm playing your game now. He could have tried to have companies regulated so they wouldn't falsly inflate the economy, but he didn't lift a finger. You want to know why...it's called a free market. The only time the government is supposed to interfere is when something bad and immoral happens, and when that happens, it isn't the president's responsibility to deal with it. Thats what court rooms are for. So attack the judicial branch if you don't like the way companies with shady practices are being punished.

I'm sorry if you interpreted my responces as childish, but that was just an opening...if you'll notice I quickly moved on to the issue at hand. And the only person I have been picking on is the one who can't even read what I write.
Quote:
I live in America...registered as a Republican voter due to the Reagan era. Started watching politics closely since Clinton (I grew up). I had some issues with Clinton...I have tons more with Bush and the Congress he's got backing him. Just hoping for a nice change and an improvement come election day.
Theres nothing stoping you from reregistering as a Democrat or what not. Heck there are tons of parties out there: The Green Party, The Communist Party, etc. (please, don't read too much into the parties I listed, I'm not saying anything about them, they were the first two to come to mind other than the Republicans and the Democrats.)

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 8th July 2003, 18:39   #48
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It's hard not to applaud the ousting of Saddam, but I've got a problem with what we were told was the rationale. Even if they find the WMD's, the idea that Saddam would give weapons to al queda is pretty ridiculous when you loopk at it objectively for just a moment. The terrorists are radical islamists who want to overthrow all secular governments in the muslim world, and Saddam was a secular government. Saddam and Osama might use each other for short term propaganda pouposes, but Saddam would never trust Osama with any major weapons of mass destruction. I'm afraid thatto much of the world this fiction is pretty transpaprent, and I have to reluctantly admit that the fact that we as a nation fell for this, presumably because Saddam and Osama are both Arabs, really does make us look, perhaps unfairly, like a nation of racist nincompoops.

And does this make us more secure? I doubt it. I think they're probably lining up to volunteer for more suicide attacks, while the power vacuum is giving radical islam (i.e. Osama) a new foothold in the world.
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Old 8th July 2003, 22:42   #49
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It really is too bad that he can't read a word I write. I wonder if I can make him paranoid if I keep posting.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 9th July 2003, 00:00   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
spiderbaby, quit being such a wuss and read some posts by a fairly intelligent human being. You're a spoiled brat who can't take an argument or actual debate without having to childishly ignore the other side. You are effectively sticking your fingers into your ears and singing while he tries to make a point. If you did that to me, to my face, You'd have a fist in your mouth after your second round of "la-la-la"s. I don't take a lot of petty baby bullshit anywhere, especially people who are trying to tell me that Bush is an asshole because he lies and then worship Clinton because he gets more action than they've seen in years in a couple of weekends with an ass munching dirty slut of an intern.
If you don't agree, amke a statement. Don't be such a fucking moron.
Thanks! And Come Again!
Welcome to my ignore list. Did you really expect any other response? Sorry I can't continue this intelligent conversation. Please understand-- It's only because I'm such a fucking moron.

Hey dlinkwit... not bad!

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Old 9th July 2003, 00:22   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
Welcome to my ignore list.
woo hoo! I am psychic!
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Old 9th July 2003, 00:24   #52
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psychotic
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Old 9th July 2003, 00:35   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
Welcome to my ignore list. Did you really expect any other response? Sorry I can't continue this intelligent conversation. Please understand-- It's only because I'm such a fucking moron.
[SARCASM]You know, spiderbaby1958 embodies all that stands for maturity in the world. I must say he is a shining example of a mature adult.[/SARCASM]

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 9th July 2003, 00:36   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
woo hoo! I am psychic!
Think of it this way: Eventually he'll run out of people to talk to.

"If everything I didn't give a shit about died, the only thing that would be left would be me, my dick, and maybe some pizza!" -Two (Visit www.ranting-gryphon.com, it rocks.)
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Old 9th July 2003, 00:37   #55
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You know, I don'tr know why this became an issue... I guess I was kind of miffed and maybe I was a little too smug about it, and I apologize to tiger and everyone else involved, except fickle, who can kiss my ass-- but there are some people who are just not worth arguing with, and this is a decision that I make for myself, like everyone else does. I'm convinced that any intelligent person who carefully reread the exchange would see why IO was frustrated... but I know why I was frustrated, and that's really all that counts. I really think that I welcome debate, but some of you guys really need to learn the difference between intelligent debate and a flame war.
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Old 9th July 2003, 00:39   #56
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are you frustrated because your avatar is scratchy? that is what IO think. /shrug
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Old 9th July 2003, 00:57   #57
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Re: please....

Quote:
Originally posted by Semantics
For all those who disgust those who disagree with outside "America bashers"....do you realize that by calling them "dumb", "stupid", and all that other crap, you are doing the same thing you are fighting against??? How many over you get your information about these people and nations from the news? Anyone with a brain knows the news is mostly useless. It is a biased media outlet. All news is, no matter the station or nation, and it cannot be taken as the absolute truth. So CNN shows a picture of the French protesting and says "They disagree with our war". What it misses in reporting is why they do disagree, or that there are those who support us in France, or that the French don't hate America, just disagree with actions we take at the time. But CNN doesnt tell us this, and the public forms stupid opinions. Secondly, who has been out of this nation to France, or Germany, Asia or Africa? Who has talked to a citizen of that nation for an unbiased and unfiltered opinion? Who has respect for others cultures? Who turns the other cheek? Who understands that we would do the same thing as a nation that "America bashers" and their goverments are doing if the roles were reversed and we where in there shoes and they in ours. Not to toot my own horn, but I have been around, done "home-stays", and am mature in my world view. I suspect that most here will not feel the same as I. It is to be expected. Ignorant people spout ignorant babble. But this is America...a great place. You are free to say what you wish, and that doesnt bother me. So long as you give me and others the same respect.
You know, I orgianally wasn't going to say anything, but now I am.

Most of us have not actually bashed another country, we have merely defended our own. We in no way judged another country, we simply told them we believed they were wrong about ours for the reasons we listed. Some of us may have also found some of their comments to be inappropriate and misguided.

And here's me contributing to spiderbaby1958's paranoia.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 9th July 2003, 02:35   #58
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tiger, lets keep posting. That way we can create a drama sequence that could oust us of this wonderful human being who's so smart he can't come up with a proper responce other than "WAAAAAAAHHH!!! YOU POINTED OUT MY INSECURITIES AND BULLSHIT!!!I KNOW ! I'll ignore him. That makes me better, since I didn't stand up for my self or defend my stance. All I have to do is ignore and they'll all disappear. I really don't think so. I stay here for a reason. I'm still unclear on what that is, but I'll stay here till I find out.
w00t!

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Old 9th July 2003, 04:11   #59
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My avatar isn't scratchy. That's Bill Gates after he got a pie in the face.
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Old 9th July 2003, 04:12   #60
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It looks like you ran it through a meat grinder. I'd help you soften it or remove the pixelated shit look, but I've been ignored So, up yours, and have a lovely day.

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Old 9th July 2003, 13:05   #61
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tiger84 -

First off...I know Bush never said Saddam had nukes. The government lied to say that he was trying to get uranium. A piece of bad information that they knew was a lie, but they used anyway. As for the entire Hitler thing...for a while the US did ignore it. We didn't want to get in a war that didn't involve us. Then they decided to make it involve us, so we went in and kicked arse. We were attacked. Wait for things to become declassified and we'll see? What about the stockpiles he and Powell told Congress and the UN that he had? Why haven't we seen those and heard about how many tonnes of whatever WMD were buried there have been disposed of? That's definetely not 'classified'. We saw diagrams of the places on news websites and cable for ages!

Next up, your treaty arguement. No President in his right mind would sign a treaty like that...so your entire arguement is meaningless. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Treaties are a nation's promise. When our promises become meaningless...then suddenly, no one wants to make treaties anymore...no one wants to believe us. If there was a pressing, IMMEDIATE reason to step away from one, then I might see it. If we see an issue that may be coming up in the future, then we should renegotiate or get the nation(s) we have the treaty with to agree to dispose of it.

Third...the economy. He didn't mean it as a way to fix the economy? Then I guess he's lied to me again...and to every registered voter out there. He just wanted to give a tax cut to those that pay the most taxes? Why? The only reason I can see to lie to the population of the US and give tax cuts to the rich is to pad his own re-election campaign...which...gee...isn't it pulling in just tons of money? Thank you for clearing that up. He wasn't just dumb in thinking that the tax cut would help...he was actually devious and lying. This puts him in a better light...how?

As for the entire 'registering as a certain view', I find it totally ridiculous and therefore don't care what I'm registered as...Republican, Democrat, whatever. The only reason to have statistics on that is basically to divide up districts to try and ensure one certain side is represented/elected consistenly. (See the entire craziness with Texas Republicans trying to redistrict Texas so that more Replublicans will be sent to Congress instead of the near dead even setup it is now.) I vote issues, not along party lines.

Bottom like, tiger84...I like America, don't get me wrong. I just have major issues with our current President and his supporters. You seem ready to point out the problems any other president has had (especially Clinton, it seems), but aren't willing to admit that he's done us a rather shitty job himself?

Reread my post...I admitted that I had issues with Clinton too. I never said he was spotless.
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Old 9th July 2003, 17:05   #62
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I say Fuck Clinton. He's not president anymore, and he's got nothing to do with any of this. I was never crazy about the man. He was just a Democrat who was able to beat the Republicans at their own bullshit game. Sure I prefer him to what we have now, but I would also prefer Richard Nixon, Warren G. Harding, and Millard Fillmore.
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Old 9th July 2003, 17:34   #63
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Clinton was a great president I feel. He did a lot of good things I think. That's jsut me though....
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Old 9th July 2003, 18:18   #64
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Whatever. I'm just tired of this thing where they keep dragging him in as whipping boy. I mean, I can't believe somebody actually brought the intern thing into this. Let's drive that jalopy one more time round the track, and maybe the wheels won't fall off!
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Old 9th July 2003, 18:22   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by DracoVulpine
tiger84 -

Reread my post...I admitted that I had issues with Clinton too. I never said he was spotless.
He's not much of a reader, Draco.

Okay, If I'm gonna keep taking swipes at these jerks, I should take them off my ignore list. Okay, done.
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Old 9th July 2003, 18:40   #66
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What happened, realised you couldn't ignore the whole fucking board?

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Old 10th July 2003, 04:51   #67
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i like america. i live there. i'm just scared of the entire bush administration.

thought i should put in my two cents.

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Old 10th July 2003, 06:13   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
What happened, realised you couldn't ignore the whole fucking board?
What happened was what I said happened, in my post, which was written in English. Yup, I must have been afraid to grapple with your mighty wit. Or maybe you just might need a few more sessions with "Hooked on Phonics".
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Old 10th July 2003, 06:32   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiger84
Quick translation:
"I am afraid of confrontation or people who have an opinion that is different than mine."
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHHAAHhaahaHHHAaahhahaahaha!

I'm so glad I took you off my ignore list... it would be a shame to miss this great stuff. I'll continue when I stop laughing.

Listen, Einstein, Your "opinion" is so stupid that it doesn't really qualify as an opinion, since that would imply original thought. Several people have logged onto this board with exactly the same complaints about you that I have made (Childish responses, you don't read other people's posts) You insult people when you respond to their carefully composed posts with such annoying drivel, and just because I took you off my ignore list doesn't mean I'm not going to ignore you. Why don't you grit your teeth, tense up your sphincter, and see if you can surprise me with a glimmer of intelligence?
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Old 10th July 2003, 06:46   #70
tiger84
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Quote:
Originally posted by DracoVulpine
tiger84 -

First off...I know Bush never said Saddam had nukes. The government lied to say that he was trying to get uranium. A piece of bad information that they knew was a lie, but they used anyway. As for the entire Hitler thing...for a while the US did ignore it. We didn't want to get in a war that didn't involve us. Then they decided to make it involve us, so we went in and kicked arse. We were attacked. Wait for things to become declassified and we'll see? What about the stockpiles he and Powell told Congress and the UN that he had? Why haven't we seen those and heard about how many tonnes of whatever WMD were buried there have been disposed of? That's definetely not 'classified'. We saw diagrams of the places on news websites and cable for ages!

Next up, your treaty arguement. No President in his right mind would sign a treaty like that...so your entire arguement is meaningless. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Treaties are a nation's promise. When our promises become meaningless...then suddenly, no one wants to make treaties anymore...no one wants to believe us. If there was a pressing, IMMEDIATE reason to step away from one, then I might see it. If we see an issue that may be coming up in the future, then we should renegotiate or get the nation(s) we have the treaty with to agree to dispose of it.

Third...the economy. He didn't mean it as a way to fix the economy? Then I guess he's lied to me again...and to every registered voter out there. He just wanted to give a tax cut to those that pay the most taxes? Why? The only reason I can see to lie to the population of the US and give tax cuts to the rich is to pad his own re-election campaign...which...gee...isn't it pulling in just tons of money? Thank you for clearing that up. He wasn't just dumb in thinking that the tax cut would help...he was actually devious and lying. This puts him in a better light...how?

As for the entire 'registering as a certain view', I find it totally ridiculous and therefore don't care what I'm registered as...Republican, Democrat, whatever. The only reason to have statistics on that is basically to divide up districts to try and ensure one certain side is represented/elected consistenly. (See the entire craziness with Texas Republicans trying to redistrict Texas so that more Replublicans will be sent to Congress instead of the near dead even setup it is now.) I vote issues, not along party lines.

Bottom like, tiger84...I like America, don't get me wrong. I just have major issues with our current President and his supporters. You seem ready to point out the problems any other president has had (especially Clinton, it seems), but aren't willing to admit that he's done us a rather shitty job himself?

Reread my post...I admitted that I had issues with Clinton too. I never said he was spotless.
Here I come wondering in again.

You don't know jack crap about what is classified and what is not, so don't tell me what isn't. You don't know a thing about national security. And you know for a fact that Saddam didn't try to get Uranium? Actually, he did...proven fact. He has been known by other administrations to have materials for producing a nuke. And if you'll kindly notice, we weren't attacked by Germany, we were attacked by Japan...so what was your argument again? Now the reason we stopped not doing anything is because we finally came around to how stupid we were being...just like with the Saddam issue...thank you for making my point.

Yes, I know no President in their right mind would sign a treaty like that...it's call a hypothetical situation. Proves my point well enough. Some treaties really were a MAJOR mistake. Now take into account the countless other treaties Bush has not broken...thank you.

Anytime a president says he will improve the economy, you should just ignore that statement, every president who has ever said that is lying to you. Now, why is Bush raking in the capaing funds...could it be that he's popular and you are in a minority (I know I've made this argument before)...oh no, that can't be it because he's a "shitty" president. BULLSHIT. He has one of the highes approval ratings of any American president, and at times it has been THE highest. He is not doing a SHITTY job, he is doing an excellent job...take a look at national pools why don't you. No politician would ever succede if they never lied...it's a vital part of the business and I'm being serious. Fact: Bush is doing an excellent job despite the people who are LOOKING for a way to make him look bad because they're sour over the last election.

Actually, I did read your post quite well and as I recall you said:
Quote:
I live in America...registered as a Republican voter due to the Reagan era. Started watching politics closely since Clinton (I grew up). I had some issues with Clinton...I have tons more with Bush and the Congress he's got backing him. Just hoping for a nice change and an improvement come election day.
You think Bush is much worse then Clinton...thats why I brought up Mobadishu (spelling?...anyone?), Kosovo, and Dessert Fox, but never once did I mention the intern business (directed at spiderbaby who is coming of as a hypocrite)

And to spiderbaby.
Quote:
Whatever. I'm just tired of this thing where they keep dragging him in as whipping boy. I mean, I can't believe somebody actually brought the intern thing into this. Let's drive that jalopy one more time round the track, and maybe the wheels won't fall off!
If you listened to your own advice spiderbaby and READ my posts you would soon reallize that I didn't so much as reference any of Clinton's sexual habbits or extra marratal affairs. I brought up issues like Mobadishu (a.k.a. Black Hawk Down), Kosovo, Dessert Fox. And there are plenty of other mishaps that were never reported on the mainstream media. I was also asking why Clinton didn't do more to regulate the economy to stop the false inflation of it ultimately causing the current ressesion. This was to prove my point that the president didn't have much sway over the economy. So the next time you talk to me about not reading your post...you can roll it in a cone and sit on it.

Now, I await DracoVulpine intelligent responce, and spiderbaby making an arse of himself. Now that I can't make him paranoid, I'll just have to turn his own words against him.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.

Last edited by tiger84; 10th July 2003 at 07:11.
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Old 10th July 2003, 07:11   #71
spiderbaby1958
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The Great Debate: tiger84 vs. tiger84!

Quote:
Originally posted by tiger84
Bush is not lying, he believes what he is telling you.


Quote:
Originally posted by tiger84
Bush's intention was not to rejuvinate the economy, it was to pay back people who had paid too much in taxes. The economy was just his excuse to get it through congress and what not.
Hmmmm. At least one of these guys has got to be very, very wrong.
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Old 10th July 2003, 07:20   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiger84

If you listened to your own advice spiderbaby and READ my posts you would soon reallize that I didn't so much as reference any of Clinton's sexual habbits or extra marratal affairs.
Uhhh, excuse me? Did I attribute the reference to the intern to you? I did not. Tiger, words have precise meanings. "Somebody" does not necessarily mean you. I could understand why you might think so, though, being so stupid and all.
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Old 10th July 2003, 13:43   #73
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tiger84-

I just find it hard to see the person I'm arguing with here is the same person I'm agreeing with on another board and who is making decent arguements. Here, it all seems to be just "I'm right, shut up, *@#$ off" You seem to have a mind on your shoulders elsewhere. Please take a moment to calm yourself after reading the flames from people here just to egg you on, and actually think out your arguements and express them calmly.

You state I don't know "jack crap" about what is classified and what is not. Neither do you. And if the locations of those WMD depots the main point in my arguement were classified, we would not have seen them plastered all over CNN. If he's known by other administrations to have materials for producing a nuke, then where are they? Why would they have to come up with a lie to prove it? I never said we were attacked by Germany...we were attacked by Japan...but the ATTACK was what brought us into the war. Since it was a war started by Germany, we took the war to them first. We didn't figure out we were being stupid...we reacted to a direct attack.

Second, if you're going to come up with a hypothetical situation, come up with plausible ones. Coming up with completely ridiculous ones proves no point whatsoever. As for Bush keeping some treaties and breaking others...breaking any makes it look like we're keeping others just because it suits our purpose at the time. I make a bunch of promises to people, then when I don't like a few, I break them. Don't try to talk to the person they're in regards to...just break them. How believable are my remaining promises? How likely are you to believe a promise I still have with you or believe a promise I might make to you in the future? You seem to be of the mind that treaties are made to be broken when any country wants. Fine. We are arguing ourselves in a circle...me with my reasoning, you with yours. If you feel my arguements here about treaties are completely off base still, let us just drop this part, as I don't like arguing in circles.

The next paragraph in your post...I don't even know where to begin with it. First off, his popularity has been falling...why? Because he lied and the economy is trash. He was VERY popular for a while. Even I was defending him. Why? Because of 9/11 and the way things were being handled after it. It brought everyone together as a nation behind an effort to take out the people responsible for 9/11 and those that harbored them. I am looking at the national pools...and I see the falling popularity listed there. "Lying is vital for politicians" arguement. I disagree. It isn't vital. It's just the common practice. I'm not out to make Bush look bad...he's doing it quite well on his own. And it's an election year coming up, with Bush obviously running for the Republican side of things as the incumbent. In the character assassination that is politics, yes, they are going to be finding everything he did wrong and point it out to the voters. Just like Bush's campaign will be doing once the Democratic candidate is decided on.

And yes...to be honest, I consider Clinton to have been a better president than Bush. And I'm not just basing my opinion of Bush on Iraq, but in a general picture scenario of everything he's been doing. The war and the WMDs just appear to be the 'hot topic' at the moment. I've been having issues with what he's been doing almost across the board since we finished in Afghanistan. He's been using the 'terrorism' spiel as his own little playtoy to do a lot of things that he wouldn't have been able to get away with without 9/11.

And yes...it is currently a minority that doesn't like Bush...but that minority is getting larger almost daily, it seems...and may not stay a minority.

I expressed a desire to stop arguing in circles. I'll express it again over this entire thread, tiger84. If you feel my arguements are completely off base across the board, lets just drop all of this and agree to disagree, as it were. I liked Bush, then came to dislike him. I have my reasons. You seem to have yours for liking him and thinking he's doing a wonderful job. We've both expressed our reasons. Yours are not persuading me to think of Bush in a good light and mine seem to be doing nothing to diminish Bush in your opinion. Let us not 'feed the trolls' any longer and declare a truce on this between the two of us?

...unless you can see a way out of this circle we've been arguing. (definetely seems circular to me at this point)
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Old 10th July 2003, 13:58   #74
spiderbaby1958
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An interesting thing that I've heard is that early polling indicates that Bush's "approval" numbers don't seem to always be translating into support for reelection. Although I'll say upfront that I can't cite any specific source for that.
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Old 10th July 2003, 18:05   #75
tiger84
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Quote:
Originally posted by DracoVulpine
tiger84-

I expressed a desire to stop arguing in circles. I'll express it again over this entire thread, tiger84. If you feel my arguements are completely off base across the board, lets just drop all of this and agree to disagree, as it were. I liked Bush, then came to dislike him. I have my reasons. You seem to have yours for liking him and thinking he's doing a wonderful job. We've both expressed our reasons. Yours are not persuading me to think of Bush in a good light and mine seem to be doing nothing to diminish Bush in your opinion. Let us not 'feed the trolls' any longer and declare a truce on this between the two of us?

...unless you can see a way out of this circle we've been arguing. (definetely seems circular to me at this point)
Okay, fine, lets call it a truce. But I just have to say one thing. After the Guld War, weapons inspectors actually saw with their own eyes, a device called the Calutron (which, incidentally, Saddam had renamed to the Bagdadatron even though it was the exact same machine), a device for enriching Uranium...even though Plutonium makes a much better material...easier to enrich. There are actually plenty of incidents like that which aren't exactly common knowledge.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to "argue" with spiderbaby and his blackholes of intelligence that are his arguments.

Quote:
Uhhh, excuse me? Did I attribute the reference to the intern to you? I did not. Tiger, words have precise meanings. "Somebody" does not necessarily mean you. I could understand why you might think so, though, being so stupid and all.
Then tell me, oh wise one, by READING through these posts (in this thread only), who brought up the Clinton sex scandal? HMMMMM? I would really like to know. I think you'll find it in absentia.

Quote:
Hmmmm. At least one of these guys has got to be very, very wrong.
I really must applaud your ability to take thing out of context. Done like a true politician. Those two quotes are refering to two entirely different subjects...one to war, the other to the tax cuts that ingrates can only wine about.

Quote:
Listen, Einstein, Your "opinion" is so stupid that it doesn't really qualify as an opinion, since that would imply original thought. Several people have logged onto this board with exactly the same complaints about you that I have made (Childish responses, you don't read other people's posts) You insult people when you respond to their carefully composed posts with such annoying drivel, and just because I took you off my ignore list doesn't mean I'm not going to ignore you. Why don't you grit your teeth, tense up your sphincter, and see if you can surprise me with a glimmer of intelligence?
This coming from the person who ignores people because he can't counter their arguments. I myself say, "HA!" You also seem to like to use curse words quite abit more than the rest of us...yes that displays your intelligence. And you know, many more people have posted messages agreeing with me that your ignoring actions are quite the display of ignorance. Oh, by the way, only one person said I was being childish, then I responded to that (if maybe, you would read)...oh and that argument had nothing to do with you. What a surprise, something that didn't involve you.

If you would READ my posts, you would notice that I use evidence, that I didn't make up, I explain things completely. And all in all, they are very well composed arguments...the only person I have actually insulted is you, and that was just to have a little fun. Now if you consider my argument annoying drivel, I would like to see a good argument...all though I think I know what it is...yes, a good argument (in your opinion) would be one that agrees with you, apparently an argument that doesn't is "annoying drivel".

Now, you will be surprised that I have not once on this thread gritted my teeth or tensed up my sphincter. Any response I made to you after you ignored me was actually quite the stress reliever. Oh, and I might remind you that I read every post all the way through.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 10th July 2003, 18:08   #76
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bush will win for two reasons (before you jump on me let me just say that i dont want him to win, i just know he will)
1. hes fundraising something like 6x the nearest democratic candidate
2. there are so many dems to choose from, support will be fractionalized.

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Old 10th July 2003, 18:38   #77
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For the people who hate bush, do you hate him because he doesn't know that he is lying? Or do you hate him because there's no one else to blame but the president?
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Old 11th July 2003, 04:38   #78
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Or do you hate him because you just hate america? or is it because you are a misanthrope and just hate all people in general? or maybe you just hate everything in general? or maybe you don't hate bush, but you really just hate your dad?
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Old 11th July 2003, 05:34   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mattress
Or do you hate him because you just hate america? or is it because you are a misanthrope and just hate all people in general? or maybe you just hate everything in general? or maybe you don't hate bush, but you really just hate your dad?
Damn, I like you.
Any other words you'd like to take out of my mouth and paste on the board? Maybe we're the same prson, like Fight Club.

The question is, who is the crazy one?

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Old 11th July 2003, 05:40   #80
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umm, right.

well, i can say that i dont like bush because, well, i can't remember his last policy that i approved of. i was going to go through a few of them, but ive decided not to bore you with something you wont read. if you want to know why i disapprove of him, ask me about one of his policies and i'll tell you how i feel about it.



edit-- as an addition to my earlier post, the one way bush wont be reelected is if this whole lying in the state of the union thing and forging documents, ect blows up to massive proportions.

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