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Old 12th July 2003, 14:39   #81
spiderbaby1958
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Originally posted by nakami
i would imagine a 45-year old man would be able to tell the difference between a question and a flame, but i guess not.
Okay, so, I'm supposed to actually answer that, and tell you what the hell I'm doing surfing the web? Not that you're attacking me or anything... but because you're curious?



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the way your going, the only posts you'll be reading on this forum are the ones you make.
So what? I prefer my own company-- at least when I'm not in arrogant clod mode. If it comes to that, this forum and I will both get along fine without each other.
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Old 12th July 2003, 14:53   #82
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One reason why a certain amount of social spending is beneficial is simply because its cheaper for everyone in the long term, because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Education is cheaper than welfare, and welfare is cheaper than prison.

One reason why the rich should take care of the poor is because the economy is artificially rigged to insure that there will always be poor people, even in good times-- so that wages can be kept down, which benefits the rich.

http://discover.npr.org/features/fea...l?wfId=1070301

Here's link to a very funny and intelligent satire piece from NPR, by the Montana Logging amd Ballet Company, from 2000, outlining Alan Greenspan's role in good economic times.

Last edited by spiderbaby1958; 12th July 2003 at 17:14.
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Old 12th July 2003, 20:25   #83
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Originally posted by Starbucks
False.

According to Bush's plan, that's false. Take a look at the final bill. Even if you add up the total refunds given back to 99% of the lower population, it's only $7,646. The top 1% gets $53,123 back.
So what you are try to tell me is that all those millions of people collectively get only 7,646 dollars back. Do you reallize what you're saying. Thats not even one dollar per person. And I know for a fact that my parents got a whole heck of a lot more back than one measly dollar.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 12th July 2003, 21:11   #84
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Did I mention that I'm a registered Republican? When Clinton took office, he raised taxes, and he raised them mostly for the rich. He did this because of the deficit that had been rung up by Reagan and Bush I.

(At the time, I supported this, but his cavalier attitude bugged me. It was like "we're raising taxes, but it's only for the rich, so it doesn't really matter." That kind of pissed me off. I think he should have said "Thank you". When necessary, the rich should pay more taxes than the poor, but they should be apprecited and honored for that. I suspect there are a fair amount of misanthropes and parasites among the rich, as well as among the poor, but most wealthy people contibute to society, as do most poor. To revile all rich is no less morally objectionable than the disdain of the poor that liberals decry.)

During the 2000 election (I supported McCain, wound up voting for Gore) we had a budget surplus, and back then I was more sympathetic to the idea that a tax cut was appropriate, and yes, it ought to favor the rich.

But things are different now. We have huge budget deficits, added expenses because of homelnd security, and nearly every state government is experiencing a fiscal crisis of historic proportions. A tax cut no longer makes sense.
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Old 12th July 2003, 22:59   #85
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spend less money on war.
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Old 12th July 2003, 23:32   #86
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So what you are try to tell me is that all those millions of people collectively get only 7,646 dollars back. Do you reallize what you're saying. Thats not even one dollar per person. And I know for a fact that my parents got a whole heck of a lot more back than one measly dollar.
No, on average, for everyone in the top 1% each person will get back $53,123, and 7,646 is the average for all 99%. Look at the chart (The one congress approved). Or if you want to do it rich vs. poor, then put the first, second, third, and fourth 20% vs. the richest 20%. That means the richest 20% of America get 69.5% of ALL THE RETURNS. Now, people (80%) aren't mad that the rich (20%) are getting back a lot of their money, they are mad because if you give the rich back a lot of their money, why not give the poor the same percentage?

Last edited by Starbucks; 12th July 2003 at 23:57.
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Old 12th July 2003, 23:42   #87
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Thanks to New Deal institutions and rules there are many many safeguards aginst another market crash like the one in 1929.

I think the more logical reason that most people disapprove of favoring the rich is because they aren't rich.
We are seeing evidence of the same things happening today that happened in 1920. Where I live there is a 10% unemployment rate. That's higher than what previously was the highest unemployed city in America, which used to be Flint Michigan. Flint used to have a GM plant in their city, but when GM left, there was a super high unemployment rate. And you know the city I live in, INVENTED COMPUTERS. The people here are NOT POOR. They are ex-execs now working at fast food resturaunts. Home of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Adobe, Oracle and Intel to name a few. It doesn't even have to be a completely horrible crash either, it could just be a horrible recession.

Last edited by Starbucks; 13th July 2003 at 00:08.
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Old 13th July 2003, 02:26   #88
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Starbucks and Spiderbaby-- Why don't you guys double post?

Look, if you hate tax cuts,
SEND IT BACK!

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Old 13th July 2003, 02:50   #89
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Look, if you hate tax cuts,
SEND IT BACK!
How? The government doesnt give CRAP to the working middle class with NO CHILDREN, and NO STOCKS to begin with. Surely I musn't be the only single person without children. Please tell me how I send money they never gave me please!
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Old 13th July 2003, 02:55   #90
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If you don't like tax cuts, then figure out how much you get back, and mail them a check. They'll spend it. Or just send your Tax return back to them. I mean, come on, if you like taxes so damn much, give them more!

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Old 13th July 2003, 03:19   #91
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How? The government doesnt give CRAP to the working middle class with NO CHILDREN, and NO STOCKS to begin with. Surely I musn't be the only single person without children. Please tell me how I send money they never gave me please!

What's that? Bush wont give me any money? Aww crap. And who says I don't like tax cuts? I like tax cuts. I'd like the bush tax cut even more if he'd give it to the people who actually needed it.
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Old 13th July 2003, 04:32   #92
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meh. I got a pretty decent tax return. And surprise, I'm working middle class with no kids. so, maybe your tax man has some answers for you. Mine does my taxes for thirty five bucks. If I remember correctly, I got back almost the equivelent to two weekly paychecks, which is fair, as I was able to buy new spectacles.
So tell me how the government is screwing you in the same way they're screwing me, and yet I get a decent tax return for my pay fare.
So, tell me how you don't get a tax return with no dependants and no stocks and I'll say, well I do, so what are you doing wrong, Starbucks?

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Old 13th July 2003, 05:03   #93
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No clue!! I let my sister do my taxes (She is a certified CPA Tax consultant). I got back 57 bucks. I make 30k per year but recently got laid off.
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Old 13th July 2003, 05:28   #94
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I make $8 an hour and got like $350. I was mistaken, I looked up my return, that's not twice my weekly amount, it's about one and a half until recently, when I started getting 40 hours and thusly about $300 a week.

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Old 13th July 2003, 05:35   #95
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Originally posted by Starbucks
No, on average, for everyone in the top 1% each person will get back $53,123, and 7,646 is the average for all 99%. Look at the chart (The one congress approved). Or if you want to do it rich vs. poor, then put the first, second, third, and fourth 20% vs. the richest 20%. That means the richest 20% of America get 69.5% of ALL THE RETURNS. Now, people (80%) aren't mad that the rich (20%) are getting back a lot of their money, they are mad because if you give the rich back a lot of their money, why not give the poor the same percentage?
Don't switch from the top 1% to the top 20%. Thats cheating. Now after deciphering that extremely complicated chart. I found that the bottom 99% gets most of the tax break.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 13th July 2003, 08:14   #96
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Don't switch from the top 1% to the top 20%. Thats cheating. Now after deciphering that extremely complicated chart. I found that the bottom 99% gets most of the tax break.
That's because you're including the richest 19% from the top 1% and classifying it as "poor".
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Old 13th July 2003, 08:23   #97
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BTW the market crashed in 1929 not 1920.
Whoops, can't beleve is missed that one, thanks for the correction.
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Old 14th July 2003, 02:31   #98
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I have to admit, I skipped the graph. I was never a math major, but I do know that I make decent greenbacks and for every 400 I make, the federal government takes 56 of it. They've taken overall a fifth of my hard earned money. I say illegalise income tax. The federal government operated years ago without it, so let them shrink to the point where they can do it again. Remember, we left England for over taxing us without getting paid back for it.

How's this for comparison: The American government is much like Word 2000. Bloated. Lets cut off the extra fat.

PS: Starbucks--You probably claimed differently than I did. There's one where you get a lot of check, then theres one that you get a lot of return.

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Old 14th July 2003, 03:02   #99
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Originally posted by Fickle
I say illegalise income tax. The federal government operated years ago without it, so let them shrink to the point where they can do it again. Remember, we left England for over taxing us without getting paid back for it.
Kind of OT, but I've always been against taxation of minors since one of the things the revolution was about was "no taxation without representation." and since minors can't vote why should they have to pay taxes? Of course, I came up with this at my first job when I was 15. Not that I didn't want to pay taxes, what I really wanted to do was vote.
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Old 14th July 2003, 04:46   #100
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PS: Starbucks--You probably claimed differently than I did. There's one where you get a lot of check, then theres one that you get a lot of return.
You're probably right, I must have filed my claims differnetly.
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Old 14th July 2003, 06:03   #101
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Originally posted by Starbucks
That's because you're including the richest 19% from the top 1% and classifying it as "poor".
No...everyone is complaing about how the richest 1% gets back more than the other 99% percent of us. No one ever said anything about the top 20% until you posted that utterly confusing chart. I didn't call the top 20% minus the top 1% poor.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 15th July 2003, 01:33   #102
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hmm, top twenty...uh..The only top twenty I know is:
Quote:
Ashanti, Chapter II

Beyonce, Dangerously In Love

Luther Vandross, Dance With My Father

Michelle Branch, Hotel Paper

50 Cent, Get Rich Or Die Tryin'

Metallica, St. Anger

Evanescence, Fallen

Monica, After The Storm

Norah Jones, Come Away With Me

Three 6 Mafia, Da Unbreakables

Kelly Clarkson, Thankful

Soundtrack, Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle

Buddy Jewell, Buddy Jewell

Annie Lennox, Bare

Linkin Park, Meteora

Soundtrack, 2 Fast 2 Furious

Sean Paul, Dutty Rock

Cher, The Very Best Of Cher

Soundtrack, The Lizzie McGuire Movie

Lonestar, From There To Here: Greatest Hits

Taken From Billboard.com, without permission

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Old 15th July 2003, 02:08   #103
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oh my god, kelly clarkson is in the top 20? shoot me now.

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Old 15th July 2003, 06:39   #104
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I'd have to say a lot of that stuff on the top 20 should leave America with a sense of shame...for shame.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 15th July 2003, 18:28   #105
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Well, the whole the point of the top 20 is to push the crap that they're selling cause that's what sells cause that's what they're pushin. I read an interview with Keith Richard a long time ago and he said "Well, when you look at popular music over the years, what's been out at any given time is always mostly crap."

Oh shit I gotta go to work.
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Old 15th July 2003, 19:50   #106
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Now we can talk about something we all agree on. The general crapiness of the Top 20.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 16th July 2003, 02:27   #107
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No...everyone is complaing about how the richest 1% gets back more than the other 99% percent of us. No one ever said anything about the top 20% until you posted that utterly confusing chart. I didn't call the top 20% minus the top 1% poor.
So you beleve that aside from the top 1%, everyone else is poor? Not according to bush.
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Old 16th July 2003, 02:53   #108
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Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
Well, the whole the point of the top 20 is to push the crap that they're selling cause that's what sells cause that's what they're pushin. I read an interview with Keith Richard a long time ago and he said "Well, when you look at popular music over the years, what's been out at any given time is always mostly crap."

Oh shit I gotta go to work.
John Lennon called a lot of his own songs "Garbage" and "rubbish."
Pretty cruel to the shit that got him his fame and fortune, was that John Lennon.
'course, it also got him three shots in the back at close range by a madman, but such things happen now and then and we have to deal with it.

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Old 16th July 2003, 06:28   #109
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So you beleve that aside from the top 1%, everyone else is poor? Not according to bush.
Did I say something that would lead you to the conclusion that I believed the other 99% of us are poor. I certainly don't think that, and for good reason.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 16th July 2003, 12:00   #110
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I don't think anyone in the US is poor, even homeless people are pretty well fed compared to a lot of citizens of a lot of other countries.
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Old 17th July 2003, 05:44   #111
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Sorry i did not read all of the posts.

I actually saw Bill Cliton on Larry King, and they were talking about the Tax Cut.

I found it interesting, as Larry asked Bill about it, he began to talk about why it wasn't working, then simply stopped, kind of snickered/laughed, and said:

"it just isn't right"

In a light hearted manner. As if, it was obvious that the tax cut was simply to serve some alterior motive/give money to people who voted for him/something to that nature, and as if everyone who knew anythign about politics alreayd knew that.

Just found it interesting.
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Old 17th July 2003, 12:01   #112
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Because Bill Clinton isn't biased at all.
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Old 17th July 2003, 23:33   #113
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[SARCASM]Oh, of course he isn't. I mean he's a saint when it comes to telling the truth.[/SARCASM]

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 18th July 2003, 02:24   #114
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I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.
I love Irony. Clinton calling Bush a liar. Hi-fucking-larious.

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Old 18th July 2003, 18:24   #115
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Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 27th July 2003, 22:10   #116
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http://www.markfiore.com/animation/taxcut.html

"What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad." I have choosen the red pil.
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Old 28th July 2003, 06:59   #117
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well time for me to throw my 2 cents in. i just recieved a check from the IRS for $95.40 for the "bonus" child credit refund. i will be using that money to pay towards bills that i can barley stay ahead of. that money isn't going into "circulation" to help boost the economy. i make fairly decent money for a person of my age, about $1600 a month, but i don't make enough to be able to save. most of my money is gone within three days of recieving my pay check in order to keep a head of the game. the current economy doesn't support the middle class anymore, which i believe is the sign that something needs to be done soon. for me personally, it's easy to hate the current tax plans. i don't get a whole lot of support financially, and constantly wish that the local government would just stop raping my paycheck. it's at the point for me that i have to lie about my wages, saying that i make less in order to get some help so that i'm able to keep living in my one bedroom apartment with the rugrat nad keep the bill collectors at bay.

sorry if my post just blabbled on.
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Old 28th July 2003, 08:10   #118
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Originally posted by Fickle
I love Irony. Clinton calling Bush a liar. Hi-fucking-larious.
i honestly wouldn't care about someone who lied about cheating on his wife. that, to me, is a minor flaw compared to any lie which decieves someone into thinking that a death is "acceptable".

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Old 30th July 2003, 07:04   #119
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i honestly wouldn't care about someone who lied about cheating on his wife. that, to me, is a minor flaw compared to any lie which decieves someone into thinking that a death is "acceptable".
hehe. Your broad argument left you open to a counter. Death by its very nature must be acceptable. Seeing as how it is going to happen wether we like it or not. We as individuals must (pardon the ironic statement) learn to live with death.

Anyway, now that I've said that, I'll argue with what you really meant. Bush has never said or implyed that the death resulting from our military actions was acceptable. Also, the Clinton lie posted wasn't the only one. He was a chronic lier. I mean, it is so habitual to him that he will lie even if it suits himself better to tell the truth.

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 30th July 2003, 14:31   #120
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Originally posted by tiger84
hehe. Your broad argument left you open to a counter. Death by its very nature must be acceptable. Seeing as how it is going to happen wether we like it or not. We as individuals must (pardon the ironic statement) learn to live with death.
lol. bad argument. the obvious implication was death as a consequence of our actions. seemed fairly obvious to me, hence i didn't feel the need to spell it out - mainly because most people are born with more maturity and cognitive skills than to need to be told the obvious.

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Originally posted by tiger84
Anyway, now that I've said that, I'll argue with what you really meant. Bush has never said or implyed that the death resulting from our military actions was acceptable.
surely he advertised it as "acceptable" in the context of the result to be achieved? i find it hard to believe anyone would endorse any action with the public line that it was unnacceptable.

Quote:
Originally posted by tiger84
Also, the Clinton lie posted wasn't the only one. He was a chronic lier. I mean, it is so habitual to him that he will lie even if it suits himself better to tell the truth.
he was a politician. now i'm not gonna defend him, but bush is in no way better.

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