Old 23rd November 2003, 14:03   #41
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Thomas, come back. They want a reply. Please, I'm intrested to see what you can possably say in reply.

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Old 23rd November 2003, 14:21   #42
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lol, i had a problem like that, Da PlaN-R. my first install of linux was turbolinux, and it didn't support my modem. the installer's advice was to "go online and download the file" for my modem.

i wasn't chuffed.

now i think of it, my current linux box has a motherboard that says "ERROR! No keyboard detected! Press F2 to continue." if you start it with no keyboard. luckily there's a timeout on that too.

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Old 23rd November 2003, 16:04   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by: Da PlaN-R

i once heard somewhere:
With windows you get just the doors and windows (but only half of the locks) and a nice painting to hang somewhere.
With linux you get the full house (but in bricks and wood and a hammer and some nails).
I love that analogy, being an XP user, that makes a lot of sense

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!
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Old 23rd November 2003, 17:12   #44
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Sorry for the late reply.. guyz

Hi guyz,

I have a lot to reply to and now i feel great that i actually roused up so much attention to the topic I posted....

I'm really sorry but I am not really in a postion to reply at the moment cuz i'm in a train station with my uncles laptop connected to a WAN and waz just readin the replies I got...

I promise u will have your replies in a max. of 3 days

Thank you so very much for your reply threads : I have a lot to think about now.. Thanks again

(I like fellow computer geeks however offensive they are towards me)
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Old 23rd November 2003, 18:11   #45
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Is this guy for real?

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!
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Old 24th November 2003, 01:39   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhiteRayven
Is this guy for real?
I assume so. Remember that he is from India--or as he claims to be--and it may seem that every arrogant person on this planet who enjoys using sarcasm as much as possible happens to be an American.

Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas12yrold
(I like fellow computer geeks however offensive they are towards me)
Nod...and even though we may appear to be offensive, more or less that's actually the way you may interpret to be...even if we are not trying to offend you. In the end, all we really are are just a whole bunch of arrogant people who like to act big and strong while we hide behind our terminals, giving useful advice out.
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Old 24th November 2003, 01:40   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Da PlaN-R
i once heard somewhere:
With windows you get just the doors and windows (but only half of the locks) and a nice painting to hang somewhere.
With linux you get the full house (but in bricks and wood and a hammer and some nails).
I once heard somewhere:
Using Linux is like living in a teepee. No Gates, no Windows, and there's an Apache in the house.
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Old 24th November 2003, 02:46   #48
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@ RPX good point man

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!
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Old 24th November 2003, 16:51   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
lol, i had a problem like that, Da PlaN-R. my first install of linux was turbolinux, and it didn't support my modem. the installer's advice was to "go online and download the file" for my modem.

i wasn't chuffed.

now i think of it, my current linux box has a motherboard that says "ERROR! No keyboard detected! Press F2 to continue." if you start it with no keyboard. luckily there's a timeout on that too.
Hey I remember TurboLinux! TL was my first linux install too. It came with my network card for free.
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Old 26th November 2003, 00:49   #50
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1. As a 12yo, I would assume you have yet to even SEE enough cash to purchase a real Windows licence, so you wouldn't understand the cost benefits of Linux to a business

2. There is no such thing as a "Gnome FS" - In Linux, you can actually use any one of a large variety of filesystems depending on your requirements (and no, I don't consider FAT32 or NTFS a real choice)

3. In Windows you need to wait for a new version for any significant UI changes. In Linux, you can just USE A DIFFERENT UI - there is no reason that you must use Gnome - you can use KDE, Enlightenment or if you want, just write your own! Oh, hang on, let M$ spoon feed me my UI! Now that's innovation!

4. In regards to "applications are written for Windows first, then ported to Linux" - what about Sendmail, Apache HTTP server, Squid proxy server, BIND DNS server? These apps RUN THE INTERNET more or less as we know it...oh, hang on, it's an inferior OS right? Just because 85% of desktops run it doesn't mean squat - just sounds like there was some damn good marketing done about the same time as you were born! Not to mention that mission-critical servers are a much better test of how good an OS is rather than just running Winamp on a desktop (which you can do under X if have half a brain)

5. How can you claim that Longhorn is going to be so good? You haven't even used it. I might as well claim that the next version of Linux is going to make my coffee, clean my house, solve my marital issues and solve world hunger!

Anyway, I think that's enough points rebuffed for the moment. I look forward to your reply, Thomas.

Cheers,

Sam.

PS - You really should try Linux out for a bit. I'll give you a hand installing it if you like? (Oh, I use Windows primarily on my desktop, but Linux on _ALL_ of my servers, so you can't claim I'm ignorant of Windows "benefits")
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Old 26th November 2003, 01:04   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
yeah, i wondered what MSCD was?

go away silly trolls
Microsoft Certified Developer

@all this nonsense-

More software is developed to be platform independant - than for the Windows O/S.

Windows XP - spanks windows ME/9X etc. etc.

Personal computing is just that - personal. Like coke and pepsi you make the decision.

Thats why I choose OSX - Best of both worlds
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Old 26th November 2003, 14:30   #52
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Everyone here has made good points, even if some were a little immature! Here is my pounds worth:

Microsoft:

They won the browser war for a very good reason. Netscape has very little support for proper javascript. Everything you write for IE has to be re-written for netscape. It's awful!

Also things like specifying the width and height of frames within a frameset... in netscape, this would often be displayed a good 10 pixels out of the value you specified. You can try it by creating a frameset, and loading a page that has a set with picture. The frame cuts off some of the pic in ns but IE handles it perfectly. There are many more features that simply don't behave properly in NS. For instance, in a body tag, you cannot specify bottommargin or leftmargin attributes. Etc...!

I won't go on about the flaws, but anyone who has coded for both IE and NS will know the headaches involved. IE is just much more forgiving, and in a business environment where time is of the essence, the last thing you want is to be wasting it coding for an inferior browser.

Windows:

Windows has it's good points, namely it's ease of use and configuration, along with the fact that a 5 year old could install it.

It has it's bad points too... security being number one. Also in XP I do get annoyed when features have been "dumbed" down to allow idiots to be able to use them... MS, can we have an option at install to select if your stupid or not so advanced features are hidden or displayed appropriately? Cheers!

Now the reason why a large percentage of the population use windows is first and formost, it's easy and accessable. Secondly, normal, everyday business users simply don't have the technical knowledge or ability to use a linux environment. I know it sounds crazy but REALLY some people simply don't, and never will know how to do more than what they had been shown 6 years ago in a tuition course.

Linux

Now I've used both operating systems, and many different varieties of linux. They are NOT designed for desktop usage. This is why you can't even fairly compare windows to linux. Windows is designed as a desktop os. Linux is designed as a server OS. Two completely seperate uses.

Linux is still in it's infancy. That doesn't make it rubbish. Saying that, I won't use it. I'm a programmer, and the way I make money is by writing software that can be used by the majority of people who have computers, and no, I dont have the time to port software!

As regards longhorn, microsoft are insane. Removing peoples right to use their computer without digital rights crap etc is just plain stupid. Not that I'm worried as there will be a crack, probably before the OS even ships. LOL.

Anyway, sorry for rambling!

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Old 26th November 2003, 16:23   #53
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IE doesn't have better support than other browsers, it's just it has little hacks and things that - if it was designed sensibly - shouldn't work. the reason that websites have to be rewritten for IE is that IE does not follow standards, so displays websites differently than other browsers.

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Old 26th November 2003, 16:53   #54
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So Thomas, you're 12 and you're a windows programmer... This means there is a 98% chance you're a script kiddie. The fact that you're dissing linux makes it a 100% chance. So, when you're fired from your 12,000 a year job for writing a program with no bounds checking and a hacker brings down your entire network, You might wish you had strayed away from windows and therefore become less of an idiot.
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Old 26th November 2003, 16:53   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by SamSilvester
1. As a 12yo, I would assume you have yet to even SEE enough cash to purchase a real Windows licence, so you wouldn't understand the cost benefits of Linux to a business

2. There is no such thing as a "Gnome FS" - In Linux, you can actually use any one of a large variety of filesystems depending on your requirements (and no, I don't consider FAT32 or NTFS a real choice)

3. In Windows you need to wait for a new version for any significant UI changes. In Linux, you can just USE A DIFFERENT UI - there is no reason that you must use Gnome - you can use KDE, Enlightenment or if you want, just write your own! Oh, hang on, let M$ spoon feed me my UI! Now that's innovation!

4. In regards to "applications are written for Windows first, then ported to Linux" - what about Sendmail, Apache HTTP server, Squid proxy server, BIND DNS server? These apps RUN THE INTERNET more or less as we know it...oh, hang on, it's an inferior OS right? Just because 85% of desktops run it doesn't mean squat - just sounds like there was some damn good marketing done about the same time as you were born! Not to mention that mission-critical servers are a much better test of how good an OS is rather than just running Winamp on a desktop (which you can do under X if have half a brain)

5. How can you claim that Longhorn is going to be so good? You haven't even used it. I might as well claim that the next version of Linux is going to make my coffee, clean my house, solve my marital issues and solve world hunger!

Anyway, I think that's enough points rebuffed for the moment. I look forward to your reply, Thomas.

Cheers,

Sam.

PS - You really should try Linux out for a bit. I'll give you a hand installing it if you like? (Oh, I use Windows primarily on my desktop, but Linux on _ALL_ of my servers, so you can't claim I'm ignorant of Windows "benefits")
Now, I agree this guy sounds like an idiot and argues about as well as one... But several of your arguments are incorrect.

1. No comment.
2. Perhaps you don't know about WinFS - supposedly the "next generation" file system that Microsoft is making and will be including in Longhorn. If "GnomeFS" doesn't exist, then you're just backing up his point.
3. Um, whoops! You can do the same thing in Windows. Ever heard of Litestep? Microsoft doesn't even make it hard to do. Just point windows to a different file than explorer.exe, or replace explorer.exe.
4. I'm pretty sure qmail is used more than sendmail, but whatever. The point is that most applications are still being written for Windows, and then ported, if at all, to run on Linux. There are many exceptions, of course, but there are more Windows developers.
5. You're totally right here.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th November 2003, 16:58   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by coolbloke1324
Everyone here has made good points, even if some were a little immature! Here is my pounds worth:

Microsoft:

They won the browser war for a very good reason. Netscape has very little support for proper javascript. Everything you write for IE has to be re-written for netscape. It's awful!

Also things like specifying the width and height of frames within a frameset... in netscape, this would often be displayed a good 10 pixels out of the value you specified. You can try it by creating a frameset, and loading a page that has a set with picture. The frame cuts off some of the pic in ns but IE handles it perfectly. There are many more features that simply don't behave properly in NS. For instance, in a body tag, you cannot specify bottommargin or leftmargin attributes. Etc...!

I won't go on about the flaws, but anyone who has coded for both IE and NS will know the headaches involved. IE is just much more forgiving, and in a business environment where time is of the essence, the last thing you want is to be wasting it coding for an inferior browser.
Actually, Netscape died due to three reasons:
#1: IE was bundled with Windows. Probably enough to kill it already.
#2: IE used non-standard extensions that made sites coded for IE impossible to view on other browsers.
#3: Netscape 6 was a slow, bloated piece of shit.

But then, Netscape was basically dead by the time #6 came out, so I don't know why I included that.

As to the rest of your post, I think you're mostly correct.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:00   #57
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netscape is a piece of shit... So is IE. I use Mozilla ^.^
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:02   #58
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sadly enough, I'm on windows right now.. Not for long though, I just have to fix some firewalls and I can't find a good serial emulator for Linux... anyone know of one?
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:06   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by coolbloke1324
They won the browser war for a very good reason. Netscape has very little support for proper javascript. Everything you write for IE has to be re-written for netscape. It's awful!

Also things like specifying the width and height of frames within a frameset... in netscape, this would often be displayed a good 10 pixels out of the value you specified. You can try it by creating a frameset, and loading a page that has a set with picture. The frame cuts off some of the pic in ns but IE handles it perfectly. There are many more features that simply don't behave properly in NS. For instance, in a body tag, you cannot specify bottommargin or leftmargin attributes. Etc...!

I won't go on about the flaws, but anyone who has coded for both IE and NS will know the headaches involved. IE is just much more forgiving, and in a business environment where time is of the essence, the last thing you want is to be wasting it coding for an inferior browser.
Which version of Netscape are you referring to? It sounds like you're referring to version 4, and have never tried 6 or greater, or any other Mozilla-based browser. I've seen HTML and CSS code that passes every validator on the W3C's website, and displays correctly in Mozilla/Opera...yet there are still plenty of flaws with Internet Exploder. Why is this, you may ask? Internet Exploder does not follow the W3C's standards, that's why.
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:08   #60
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Internet Explorer, like all MS products, made their own damn standards
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:10   #61
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It's heresy I tell you... Hey i'm new to this forum how do you quote?
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:12   #62
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hmmm NVM it was right there lmao
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:15   #63
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Re: Sorry for the late reply.. guyz

hmm....And where in which part of the country is this hi-tech train station? I have yet to find one in India which provides such services...




Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas12yrold
I'm really sorry but I am not really in a postion to reply at the moment cuz i'm in a train station with my uncles laptop connected to a WAN and waz just readin the replies I got...

[/B]
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:20   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by coolbloke1324
Now the reason why a large percentage of the population use windows is first and formost, it's easy and accessable.
The reason why a large percentage of the population use Windoze is first and foremost: A large percentage of consumer PCs come with it. People use the software that PCs come with, because they don't like paying for something different. If an Apple machine comes with PPC Linux, they'll use that because that's what it comes with. If a PC comes with Lindows or SuSE, they'll use that instead of any other operating system, it's that simple.
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:28   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by rpxmaster
The reason why a large percentage of the population use Windoze is first and foremost: A large percentage of consumer PCs come with it. People use the software that PCs come with, because they don't like paying for something different. If an Apple machine comes with PPC Linux, they'll use that because that's what it comes with. If a PC comes with Lindows or SuSE, they'll use that instead of any other operating system, it's that simple.
Damn right, and that's why it's really too bad Microsoft has more money then Linux. Imagine what a great place the world would be if every computer was Linux... ^.-
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:57   #66
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necroreno:

Posting many times in a row is bad form. It leads to mods getting all uppity and shit. Yeah, I know I posted twice in a row, but I was too lazy to copy & paste, but "reply" is just as easy to hit as "edit", ok?

P.S. I'm not critizing, I'm just letting you know. Don't feel bad, we were all new at one point.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th November 2003, 17:57   #67
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I see that the 12year old has stirred up opinions. The fact remains, geeks know linux. EVERYONE knows widows. Bill Gates is rich because he was smart enough to LEASE the rights to the first MS DOS to IBM. As opposed to selling it.

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!
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Old 26th November 2003, 18:05   #68
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Thanks for the help xzxzzx, i didnt see the edit button lol

actually i hardly ever use forums, i came to d/l a new skin and got distracted when i saw someone sayin windows > linux
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Old 26th November 2003, 18:19   #69
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Bill gates is rich because he's a evil, but incredibly smart, man. His company does not produce the best products, and yet it continues to sell them well because of very smart and uncompetative buisness decisions.

"Embrace and extend" - how Microsoft leverages it's immense power in the computing world to absorb other technologies into it's control.
Java (J++ as Microsoft called it, I think), Javascript, HTML, C++, etc. If Microsoft embraces a technology, you can be damn sure they are extending it in incompatible ways.

FUD - Fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Another standard Microsoft tactic. If someone else is going to release a product Microsoft thinks they should have, what do they do? Annouce a much better Microsoft product is in the works. I've seen them do this. Whether this product exists or is even in production or not is irrelivant - it's enough to crush competition, and then if MS feels like it, they can release their own POS version. Or buy the company they've crushed.

Bundling - ah, the most tricky one of them all. Bundle IE with Windows. Bundle "Windows Messenger" (basically MSN messenger) with Windows. Don't forget Windows Media Player. Sure, it's more functionality built into the O/S which benefits the user *in the short term*, but where do you stop, exactly? What if they upped the Windows license fee another $100 and included Office? Why bother with something else when Office is built into the O/S?

Innovation - Where? I've yet to see one innovation come from Microsoft. Point out one. Just one. You'll find that you can't. It doesn't exist. Hell, Microsoft often doesn't even use their OWN product! A few years ago, talking to a Word support technition, I found out that they didn't even USE Word! They used AMI Pro, and just kept Word on their systems in case an exec was coming by. And what do ya know - the next version of Word was practically a copy of AMI Pro.

Anyway, the idea that Microsoft won just because they leased DOS is just BS.

http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/IhateMS.html is at least mostly accurate, in terms of the history of Microsoft.

P.S. This post written on a Windows XP machine.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 26th November 2003, 18:27   #70
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OK, I never said leasing dos was the reason he is rich. You basically said what I meant. but was to lazy to type it my self.

[edit]
damn fingers, I meant its not the ONLY reason he is rich. Thats just what started the ball rolling.
[/edit]

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!

Last edited by WhiteRayven; 26th November 2003 at 18:53.
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Old 26th November 2003, 18:30   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhiteRayven
I see that the 12year old has stirred up opinions. The fact remains, geeks know linux. EVERYONE knows widows. Bill Gates is rich because he was smart enough to LEASE the rights to the first MS DOS to IBM. As opposed to selling it.
yes you did say that lol
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Old 28th November 2003, 00:27   #72
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Re: Windows rulezzz.. Linux sucks

Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas12yrold
Hi all,

Haha Microsoft Critics .... How very stupid for a bunch of guys to criticize Microsoft...

Why do most people in the world have Windows on their computer? Why are 85% of the applications in the world programmed for Windows (let it be Windows 9x, Me, NT, 2k, XP, 2k3 or even Windows Embedded CE)? All applications are first devoloped for Windows and then ported to Linux..

I do agree that Linux and Unix both have stable kernels ... Windows also has a decent kernel.. DECENT..

Wwwwwait a minute... Havent you guys heard of the Windows Longhorn OS.. I'm sure WinFS, Avalon & Indigo of Longhorn can very easily beat up Linux/Unix... Longhorn is 64bit/32bit compatible .. I'm sure capable of ANYTHING Linux or Unix can do.. and a very very much more.. Though I've not checked out the Longhorn ALPHA or else BETA.. I can make out its goin 2 be a rock solid OS ... (I'm already goin through the Programming of a Longhorn App and XAML with Longhorn code in VB .NET, VC# .NET etc. rocks!!

Linux's so-called "Gnome" is no match for Avalon or even for WinXP's GUI

Haha, Linux's CharUI ... blah ...

Newayz I'm 12 years of age and ... going & growing ... I'm almost an MCSD (a lil more exams to go) and doin my MCSE in a few..

reply via mail (preferred) or else reply to this thread
shut up you faggot ass n00b
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Old 28th November 2003, 00:30   #73
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i don't believe bill gates is evil. he has people to do that for him. he's just a rich, capitalist, geek.

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Old 28th November 2003, 02:41   #74
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That is very true

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!
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Old 28th November 2003, 05:09   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
i don't believe bill gates is evil. he has people to do that for him. he's just a rich, capitalist, geek.
Yes, but he didn't used to have people to do that for him. Rich, yes. Capatalistic - in a certain sense, but one of the fundamental ideas of capatalism is it promotes competition. Geek - most definately. Evil? I suppose that's debatable.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 29th November 2003, 20:57   #76
billobob
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Um, has it occured to any of you that maybe, *just maybe*, the post was a joke?
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Old 29th November 2003, 21:13   #77
WhiteRayven
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yeah, I figured that, but hey, I have nothing better to do

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!
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Old 29th November 2003, 22:02   #78
xzxzzx
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Quote:
Originally posted by billobob
Um, has it occured to any of you that maybe, *just maybe*, the post was a joke?
No, I'm an idiot.

Of COURSE we figured it was probably a joke. "Thomas12yrold"? Come on. Like we even care if it's a joke. It's something to do. Even if it wasn't a joke, which is unlikely, who cares? Anyone with two or three neurons can recognize that IT DOESN'T MATTER what some 12 year old thinks about Windows vs Linux. Either he's going to grow up and get smart, or stay stupid, in which case it's simply another idiot Windows administrator, which simply helps my job oppertunities.

Enough idiot Windows administrators, and they'll be begging for me

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
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Old 29th November 2003, 22:15   #79
WhiteRayven
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LOL

Why make something idiot proof?? Someone will only make a better idiot!
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Old 30th November 2003, 00:12   #80
M3wThr33
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Yesterday I bought a new 160GB hd. It was a replacement for my 20GB hd. I already have an 80GB hooked up, but that's the media drive.

Anyways, I ghost the 20 to the 160 and boot.
Error 0x80090006. Turns out XP's product activation doesn't like finding new hard drives. By messing around with the MBR I got it working, but any OS that puts in artificial restraints on a product is foolish.

If we outlawed pianos, only outlaws would be pianists.
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