Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 18th January 2004, 10:32   #1
Faaris
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2
U.S. Apache helicopter Gunship vs. some potato farmers

G'Day AmpHeads

You might like this...

It's easy to see that the vehicle on the left is a tractor and that the Apache just blew away some farmers. There is no question that the men were involved in some kind of agricultural activity, most likely ploughing. This is cold blooded murder and this video records a war crime.

Certainly the video makes it clear that the Apache was not engaged in evasive flight indicating that it was under any kind of a threat. The US Government is desperate to explain this away. One individual wrote in to claim that since the video is dark, it must be night and since farmers don't plough their fields at night, they deserved to be killed. However, as the display in the video itself confirms, this is an infrared thermograph, which shows emitted heat (bodies, engines, shrapnel) as white over a dark background. One thing is clear from the body language of the people. They were clearly unconcerned about the helicopter until it opened fire, which means they did not think they were doing anything that the helicopter would see as a threat. I don't think there is anything that illustrates how low the US military has sunk than this video.

From The Geneva Convention 3-1: 1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria -

The very FIRST person gunned down was the person who had been driving the tractor.

Here it is...

"U.S. Apache helicopter Gunship vs. some potato farmers"
Faaris is offline  
Old 18th January 2004, 11:04   #2
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
Sickening

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline  
Old 18th January 2004, 13:33   #3
marvinbarcelona
Major Dude
 
marvinbarcelona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: m/cr, UK
Posts: 1,143
Awful!

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
marvinbarcelona is offline  
Old 18th January 2004, 13:41   #4
MidnightViper88
Made In The USA
(Forum King)
 
MidnightViper88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 502
Posts: 9,100
Send a message via AIM to MidnightViper88 Send a message via Yahoo to MidnightViper88
This is almost as sickening as when that US soiler bombed his own camp during the beginning of the Iraqi movement in spring 2003...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
MidnightViper88 is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 14:36   #5
mikm
Major Dude
 
mikm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 1,255
Sickening and awful. It reminds me of the Air Cavalry scene in Apocolaypse Now.

powered by C₂H₅OH
mikm is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 15:06   #6
papadoc
Comfortably Numb
(Forum King)
 
papadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,612
Can you provide any legitimate news sources to back this video up?
I'd be interested to see them.
papadoc is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 15:46   #7
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Um. Yeah. I'd like to see something other than your word that shows these are, (presumably) innocent "potato farmers".

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 17:24   #8
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
And how were they at all a threat? They were in the middle of a field by a tractor. Hardly obvious members of an army or terrorist organisation. It's not like they were packing RPGs into the truck.

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 17:31   #9
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
And how do you know it's footage off of an Apache?
All you have is a disjointed audio track and a infrared video track with no indication of anything but some people being shot.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 17:35   #10
papadoc
Comfortably Numb
(Forum King)
 
papadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,612
I still want to see a legitimate news source for this,
because until I do, I'm not buying into it.
For all I know its a rip from a video game,
or an animation created to further a propagandist's agenda.
papadoc is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 17:36   #11
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
On another note, Google returns absolutely nothing, and Faaris backed his story up with ... absolutely nothing!

Unless something credible in the slightest pops up, I'm going to consider it fake.
[edit] Wow, papadoc - didn't see your post there. [/edit]

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 17:47   #12
Bazman63
Major Dude
 
Bazman63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West London
Posts: 868
Murder. pure and simple.

Footage of unarmed men being shot to death by a large caliber machine gun. One of whom is obviously wounded, is then murdered as he lays helpless.

You just watched footage of a war crime.

'In this country, it takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.'"
Bazman63 is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 17:54   #13
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by Bazman63
Murder. pure and simple.

Footage of unarmed men being shot to death by a large caliber machine gun. One of whom is obviously wounded, is then murdered as he lays helpless.

You just watched footage of a war crime.


You have no proof, and yet the human assumption:
"If it's outrageous, it MUST be true!"

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 18:53   #14
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
More like it's very realistic.

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 19:15   #15
Namelessv1
Forum King
 
Namelessv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,757
found something else regarding the video:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/01/278605.shtml
Namelessv1 is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 19:41   #16
MidnightViper88
Made In The USA
(Forum King)
 
MidnightViper88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 502
Posts: 9,100
Send a message via AIM to MidnightViper88 Send a message via Yahoo to MidnightViper88
I tried to search Google with "apache" and "potato farmer" with each other or in some other order, but I got nothing...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
MidnightViper88 is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 19:44   #17
papadoc
Comfortably Numb
(Forum King)
 
papadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,612
Quote:
Originally posted by Dawg4Life2K1
found something else regarding the video:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/01/278605.shtml
Thanks Dawg4Life2K1. That's all I was asking for.
Although that's a left wing web site, it did give me
a link to a news source for the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/U..._040109-1.html

It doesn't surprise me that ABC News is the source.
papadoc is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 19:56   #18
MidnightViper88
Made In The USA
(Forum King)
 
MidnightViper88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 502
Posts: 9,100
Send a message via AIM to MidnightViper88 Send a message via Yahoo to MidnightViper88
The page didn't load the first time around when I tried to visit it...

Glad some more insight was shed...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
MidnightViper88 is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 20:07   #19
papadoc
Comfortably Numb
(Forum King)
 
papadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,612
Quote:
Originally posted by MidnightViper88
Glad some more insight was shed...
Indeed!
I'm open minded.
I want the see or hear both sides of a story, before I rush to judgement,
unlike others here, who only rely on one side for their knowledge.
papadoc is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 20:15   #20
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Hmm. I wonder what the truth is. Justified attack, or killing some farmers? The video doesn't really give enough data.
[edit] but the full length supposedly shows the men dumping weaponry. I kinda wonder what kind of Army would release a video of killing innocent farmers... [/edit]

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 21:29   #21
grumpyBB
Senior Member
 
grumpyBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 359
Send a message via AIM to grumpyBB
I love how they edited the video down so you don't see what happens beforehand. What you don't see is the truck on the right side of the screen pull up and 2 guys get out and one of them is carrying an RPG. Potato farmers my ass.
grumpyBB is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 21:38   #22
papadoc
Comfortably Numb
(Forum King)
 
papadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,612
I'd also have to question wtf potato farmers (if that's what they are)
were doing planting/hoeing/harvesting potatos,
in the middle of the night, in a war zone?
papadoc is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 22:31   #23
marvinbarcelona
Major Dude
 
marvinbarcelona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: m/cr, UK
Posts: 1,143
I don't whether they were innocent or not, but the last fella was clearly wounded and they fired on him again.

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
marvinbarcelona is offline  
Old 19th January 2004, 23:14   #24
Bilbo Baggins
Wind Chime of the Apocalypse
 
Bilbo Baggins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Forest
Posts: 17,229
I watched the video, and I know that Western armies do not shoot at people for no reason. What happened in the moments before that? What is in those trucks?
Bilbo Baggins is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 00:46   #25
grumpyBB
Senior Member
 
grumpyBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 359
Send a message via AIM to grumpyBB
Quote:
Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
I don't whether they were innocent or not, but the last fella was clearly wounded and they fired on him again.
And your point is...what? Did you want them to land their helicopter and go out there and hug him until he felt better? Under Geneva rules he was fair game. They played by the rules of engagement, he's dead, now build a bridge and get the fuck over it.
grumpyBB is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 02:09   #26
Spazz333
Major Dude
 
Spazz333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Limbo
Posts: 1,498
Coulda swore there is such thing as a POW. Granted none of us can know the true situation for sure but it does look bad at any angle.

Spazz333 is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 02:45   #27
Namelessv1
Forum King
 
Namelessv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,757
Considering the video does not actually give any information on the RoE, the event cannot solely be judged by it.
Namelessv1 is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 03:15   #28
grumpyBB
Senior Member
 
grumpyBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 359
Send a message via AIM to grumpyBB
Quote:
Originally posted by Spazz333
Coulda swore there is such thing as a POW.
That's what happens if they're caught or surrender. If they are an immediate theat, which having an RPG in your possesion is, especially while running around trying to hide, then they're likely to be killed and that's what happened to them.
grumpyBB is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 03:24   #29
Spazz333
Major Dude
 
Spazz333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Limbo
Posts: 1,498
I actually meant about the guy that was gunned down but survived, so they shot him up again. If he was within easy crawling range (bearing in mind that he'd be wounded) of an RPG then yeah, I'd say he's still a threat.

Spazz333 is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 05:26   #30
marvinbarcelona
Major Dude
 
marvinbarcelona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: m/cr, UK
Posts: 1,143
Quote:
Originally posted by grumpyBB
And your point is...what? Did you want them to land their helicopter and go out there and hug him until he felt better? Under Geneva rules he was fair game. They played by the rules of engagement, he's dead, now build a bridge and get the fuck over it.
I think you'll find that executing the wounded is illegal.

By the way;

"I watched the video, and I know that Western armies do not shoot at people for no reason. What happened in the moments before that? What is in those trucks?"

Please, Western armies have a long and shameful history or doing just that....along with all other armies.

It's been said that I could start an arguement in an empty room.....I see no reason to disbelieve this.
marvinbarcelona is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 06:00   #31
DragonSon
Fears the boots
Forum King
 
DragonSon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,445
Quote:
Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
I don't whether they were innocent or not, but the last fella was clearly wounded and they fired on him again.
Like grumpy said, he was an immedieate threat, wounded or not. They did what they had to do, what they were ordered to do. I seriously doubt that Apache helicopter pilots fly around saying to each other, "Hey I'm bored, let's go kill some farmers, just for shits and giggles."
DragonSon is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 06:06   #32
grumpyBB
Senior Member
 
grumpyBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 359
Send a message via AIM to grumpyBB
Quote:
Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
I think you'll find that executing the wounded is illegal.
Nope, not at all. If it was there'd be TONS of controversy surrounding this exact tape. Instead it's just a few bleeding-heart, anti-war, whining liberals that are doing this ---->

The pilot had his orders and he followed them to the letter. War is hell, no doubt about it. People get wounded and killed fighting. You don't achieve peace through pacifism, you achieve it through victory.

Last edited by grumpyBB; 20th January 2004 at 07:00.
grumpyBB is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 06:07   #33
DragonSon
Fears the boots
Forum King
 
DragonSon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,445
Once again, I agree with grumpy...3 times in one week... I'm getting nervous.
DragonSon is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 10:33   #34
ertmann|CPH
Forum Viking
(Forum King)
 
ertmann|CPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The North
Posts: 3,541
exactly why american soldiers shouldn't be used anywhere but in "hot" combat....

way to trigger happy

my old history teacher from highschool told us a story from when he was stationed on Cyprus for the UN mission, there were two road blocks in his area, one run my americans, one run my danish and finnish soldiers, americans had an average of 15 - 20 incident's per week, Danes/Finns none.

Think that story was what made me weary of the american army.
ertmann|CPH is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 10:37   #35
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by Bilbo Baggins
I watched the video, and I know that Western armies do not shoot at people for no reason.
amusing.

as for what happened before, the apache stumbled upon them, saw that they had a "long, cylindrical object", that they deemed to be a weapon, they asked for permission to engage then, er, engaged! this is all covered in the news report.

zootm is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 12:56   #36
Fickle
Butterknife of Justice
(Forum King)
 
Fickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Behind you.
Posts: 5,502
right, so where's the controversy, they thought it was a weapon, you can't prove it wasn't (not we can't prove it was, but it's a moot point). What farmers tool is long and cylindrical like that. I've lived on farms. I can't think of a fucking thing. It wasn't a fucking rake.

I think it's funny that everybody automattically chalked it up to us hateful, trigger happy Americans before even bothering with a source. God forbid you fucking look around before you leap.
I agree with Grumpy, simply because what he said makes sense.

Go read a book without pictures
pabook? | Look, a blog! | Buy Stuff I Wrote
Fickle is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 13:42   #37
watadoo
JEDI MASTER
 
watadoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canyon, CA with a bunch of hippies
Posts: 1,336
I'm open minded.
I want the see or hear both sides of a story, before I rush to judgement,..<<<

Unfortunately there is no other side of the story. They were all vaporized by a large caliber chain gun. Farmers, sokdiers or freelance pissed off Iraqi citizens, they are all now decidedly dead. We'll never know and each of us will decide based on our own biases and filters.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
watadoo is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 18:43   #38
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
i'm not especially complaing about the incident, but i'm not best pleased that "a long cylindrical object" can put you down as a target of opportunity. that scares me, somewhat.

zootm is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 19:11   #39
grumpyBB
Senior Member
 
grumpyBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 359
Send a message via AIM to grumpyBB
Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
i'm not especially complaing about the incident, but i'm not best pleased that "a long cylindrical object" can put you down as a target of opportunity. that scares me, somewhat.
I don't know about you, but I don't walk around warzones with something that looks like an RPG.
grumpyBB is offline  
Old 20th January 2004, 19:20   #40
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
That'll cut out anyone actually building anything out of wood in a country then! Or carrying around architect plans in a long cylindrical documents case. Or fixing any guttering and/or plumbing. Or, or, or, or.....

How can these people be so naivee as to believe we wont kill them just because they're innocent!

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline  
Closed Thread
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump