Old 13th May 2004, 00:38   #81
WomanOfHeart
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For Chev,
The translation of the entire speech al-Zarqawi gave before Berg was murdered:

Translated from Arabic

Sheikh Abu Mus'ab Alzrqawy slaughters an American with his hands and threatens Bush with more

A statement to the nation

The praise of Allah for all Muslims with his support and the humiliating of those who attempt to defeat Islam and who attack it and who entice the unbelievers with their cunning.

The one that appreciated the days countries with its justice and the prayer and the greeting on from above the Islam lighthouse by its sword as for after :

The Islamic nation

You rejoice at the first signs of the dawn that have started that have granted the wind of triumph. Allah was benevolent to us in Al Fallujah, granting us victory

On one of the days of Allah and that was known to Allah alone

The Islamic nation

Does any excuse for waiting remain? How the free Muslim sleeps, with his eyelids closed.

And he sees that Islam is slaughtered and can be seen bleeding its dignity

And the shameful pictures and the news of the evil humiliation of the Islam people men and women in Ghareb 's father prison then where the jealousy and where the zeal and where the anger about the Allah's religion and where the jealousy for the Muslims sanctities and where the revenge for the honors of Muslims and Muslims is in the crosses prisons .

As for you are the Islam clerics then to Allah we complain about you, you see that Allah have founded the argument on you by the Islam young man who humiliated the strongest force in the date then broke its nose and destroyed its pride

We came to you that you learn from them the reliance meanings and derive from their doing the lessons of sacrifice and redemption to when you remain as the women you master only the slapping language and know only the way of wail and weeping

Then this appeals the world freemen and this it begs Kofi Annan and a third begs Amr Moussa and fourth he demands peaceful demonstrations and as if they did not hear to his saying ( ( O you the prophet incited the believers to the fight ) )

You were fed up with the fight of the conferences and the oratorical battles ohm came to you that you take the jihad way and carry the sword that sent by it the prophets master

And we beg from you that you do not be involved as usual in the denial of what will do it satisfaction of the Americans

He has ordered the prophet - peace be upon him - and he is master the merciful are with the slitting of the necks of some prisoners and their slow killing

And for us it is an example and a good example

As for you, the Roman dog Bush, I hope you are displeased and we wait for you with God's Help tough days and you and your soldiers today who tred Iraq's land will regret it.

And she dared in it to the Muslims fever

And another message to traitor Pervez Musharraf then we say to him that we in wait for your meeting with your soldiers

We demand of the American and will take revenge for the blood of our brothers in and Iraq and elsewhere

And as for you and the Americans soldiers wife then we say that we offered to the American administration this prisoner in exchange for some of the prisoners in Abu Ghareb prison but they refused

Then we say but if the dignity of Muslims and Muslims in Abu Ghareb prison and others is worth theur blood and souls

we tell you to know that the coffins will arrive to you one coffin after another, as your people are slaughtered in this way.........

Then you kill the polytheists where you find them and you take them and count them and place them where they can be seen.

Allah is the greatest and the honour to Allah and to its messenger and to the militants

And our last claim is that the praise of Allah is the Lord of the Worlds

Abu Mus'ab Alzrqawy
Prince of Al Tawhid group and jihad
Iraq
22 Rabi I 1425
*******************
11/5/2004

And you see the slaughter, your fighting brothers suspend the head of this unbeliever on one of Baghdad bridges so that they teach a lesson to others from the infidels and serves as a witness to the honour of the Muslims

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Old 13th May 2004, 01:10   #82
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Well, this proves it:

Drugs are bad!

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Old 13th May 2004, 01:12   #83
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I bet if the Iraqi's were stoned, they wouldn't have killed him.

Why do you think nothing bad ever happens in Jamaica?

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Old 13th May 2004, 04:12   #84
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Why do you think their GNP is stagnant?

Now is the time for all good Americans to come to the aid of their Country
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Old 13th May 2004, 11:33   #85
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There are only two possible “endings” to America’s war on terror.
1. Elimination of the Muslim faith.
2. Elimination of all other religion.
As long as there are Muslims there will be Muslim extremists. And when you have a religion that condones violence as a way to promote your god, no one outside of that religion is safe from persecution. And to be fair all of the religions involved in the Mideast have extremist factions that use violence to promote their point of view. The KKK or the Aryan Nation are just as much a part of Christianity as al-Qaeda is Muslim. If America had as much poverty and despair as the Mideast someone would come along and take advantage of these organizations to develop a power base the same way the al-Qaeda leaders have. And like-minded people would gladly help fund these organizations. And don’t think it couldn’t happen in America. The KKK arose from the ashes of the Confederacy due to the poverty inflicted on the south after the Civil War. Our current federal government seems to be trying to do the same to the general population right now. Not just the people in power in the white house, but the legislative and judicial branches also seem to be leaning in this direction, more for the haves, less for the have-nots. Where this will lead to I don’t know.
Another example that comes to mind is Germany in the thirties. A charismatic leader with extremist religious/nationalist views came to power in a country that had poverty forced upon it by the victors of a previous war. I believe we all know what the results of that were.
To sum it all up, as long as there are two people there will be conflict. Violence is an ingrained part of human nature. As long as one person has something another person does not, there will be a struggle to acquire or keep it. As long as there are humans there will be beheadings, torture, senseless death and violence.

Well everybody, have a nice day.
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Old 13th May 2004, 12:19   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
Didn't read the thread, did you.

I recommend not watching before dinner.
Uh, my question is did Marvin or Jest watch this fucking video. It is easily the most brutal thing I've ever seen. I couldn't even finish watching it.
Watch the video and tell me it was completely justified. Go ahead, tell me it was justified by any stretch of the imagination.

Marvin, you've been known to talk out of your ass and back it up by saying some ridiculous excuse like "I'm just waking up."
Bullshit.

You call yourself a patriotic american and then you defend the fucks who just chopped off this guys head. A mercenary? What?

m0e, I disagree since the US doesn't have one religion, we certainly aren't going to destroy "all others." And Muslims are everywhere in this country, they are hard workers and if they left we would be doing ourselves a disservice.

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Old 13th May 2004, 12:28   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
Uh, my question is did Marvin or Jest watch this fucking video. It is easily the most brutal thing I've ever seen. I couldn't even finish watching it.
Watch the video and tell me it was completely justified. Go ahead, tell me it was justified by any stretch of the imagination.
did anyone say it was justified?

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Old 13th May 2004, 12:31   #88
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Defending them is on the road to justification.

I don't agree with the war, I don't like what the Government is doing, I don't agree with our policies, but I am not going to pretend to understand where Marvin is coming off even remotely assuming that this shit was anything but an act of barbarism that was unjust and needless.

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Old 13th May 2004, 12:33   #89
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The guy was alleged to be a mercenary. What else would he be doing there? Therefore, he had it coming.
That's what I got from earlier "conjecture".

The video disturbed me so much I had trouble quelling the images when I went to bed last night. It mattered not that he was American, no one deserves that kind of death.

By the way, thanks to WomanOfHeart for the transcript. It read like a Dr. Seuss novel but get a vague idea of why they did it.












Because they're PSYCHOTIC MURDERERS!
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Old 13th May 2004, 12:34   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
Defending them is on the road to justification.
did anyone defend them?

the tone seemed more like thsi sort of thing was to be expected, rather than something that can be excused.

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Old 13th May 2004, 17:17   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by m0e
There are only two possible “endings” to America’s war on terror.
1. Elimination of the Muslim faith.
2. Elimination of all other religion.
As long as there are Muslims there will be Muslim extremists.

.......


To sum it all up, as long as there are two people there will be conflict. Violence is an ingrained part of human nature.
Personally I don't see islamic extremism as the root of this. I think that's the kindling, but the spark comes, as you mention, from the povery, government etc in the middle east. I think eradication of each other's religions isn't the only way....hindi, buddists, catholics, christians and muslims manage to coexist happily in large parts of the world. There's nothing inherent in the dogma and litany of islam that makes it any more violent, it just happens to be quite widely interpreted in an extreme manner. But then again so have most other religions at some point. in most cases, there is some kind of catalyst, something that makes people look to extreme religious interpretation as a possible hope/way out of a situation. Religious extremism itself does not set the ball rolling.

And as for the guy asking if i had watched it...yes. it's unbelievably terrible. But I WASN'T JUSTIFYING IT. I was trying to understand why it happened, why it could happen. Which seems to be the only way any of us will sort any of this messed up world out.
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Old 13th May 2004, 17:49   #92
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Although the normal practice of holding prisoners is to exchange them for others, I think those bastards would have topped him anyway. The prisoner abuse photos are just the excuse this time.

'In this country, it takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.'"
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Old 13th May 2004, 19:13   #93
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didnt they say they wanted to exchange him for prisoners, but they refused... so they killed him

There is no reset button on life... but the graphics kick ass
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Old 13th May 2004, 19:44   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle

It mattered not that he was American, no one deserves that kind of death.

that is about the most sensible statement I have read in all of this.

It made no difference who he was, it is un-condonable to carry out any kind of depraved act such as this.. and not much intelligenge by the 'Creature' (cause that what he is a creature - no way could you call that human) who did this act. I haven't watched the vid nor will I have any need or intention to.

he has the disgrace to quote religious quotes and call it in the name of some God ..what a sick depraved individual...it says no where or in no way does the Koran condone any act of barbarity, especially the barbaric act of taking another Life..to me it is the most disgusting, individual obhorrance..

nobody, for any reason has that right. Any reason! death penalties, murder (such as this) any decision that involves another losiing there life. No one has the right to decide who shall live and who die ...Especially this disgusting excuse for a being...

What did he expect to achieve some form of respect for his actions? Did he expect any respect from his own country people? I hardly think so...

What a sick depraved Fucked up world we have ...we have so much to live for and learn yet all we do is destroy.....

How Sad....

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Old 13th May 2004, 19:50   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smeggle
What did he expect to achieve some form of respect for his actions? Did he expect any respect from his own country people?
As I understand it, they are taught by the extremist clerics that when one dies for Islam and the holy land they are sent to Paradise where they will each be given dozens of virgins to have sex with and tend to their every desire.
What it also appears that they were doing was comparing the clerics to women that sit and hide while the young men are called to die for them. (In that culture it IS derogatory to be compared to a woman no matter what others may tell you.) Possibly to inflame other muslims to action?

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
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Old 13th May 2004, 19:51   #96
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http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...289819984.html

Looks like they captured him when they found out he had a jewish name...

Probably not a good idea to walk around Iraq saying "Hey! I'm Benjamin Weisensteinthalenberg!"

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Old 13th May 2004, 22:04   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by WomanOfHeart
For Chev,
The translation of the entire speech al-Zarqawi gave before Berg was murdered:

Translated from Arabic

Sheikh Abu Mus'ab Alzrqawy slaughters an American with his hands and threatens Bush with more

A statement to the nation

The praise of Allah for all Muslims with his support and the humiliating of those who attempt to defeat Islam and who attack it and who entice the unbelievers with their cunning.

The one that appreciated the days countries with its justice and the prayer and the greeting on from above the Islam lighthouse by its sword as for after :

The Islamic nation

You rejoice at the first signs of the dawn that have started that have granted the wind of triumph. Allah was benevolent to us in Al Fallujah, granting us victory

On one of the days of Allah and that was known to Allah alone

The Islamic nation

Does any excuse for waiting remain? How the free Muslim sleeps, with his eyelids closed.

And he sees that Islam is slaughtered and can be seen bleeding its dignity

And the shameful pictures and the news of the evil humiliation of the Islam people men and women in Ghareb 's father prison then where the jealousy and where the zeal and where the anger about the Allah's religion and where the jealousy for the Muslims sanctities and where the revenge for the honors of Muslims and Muslims is in the crosses prisons .

As for you are the Islam clerics then to Allah we complain about you, you see that Allah have founded the argument on you by the Islam young man who humiliated the strongest force in the date then broke its nose and destroyed its pride

We came to you that you learn from them the reliance meanings and derive from their doing the lessons of sacrifice and redemption to when you remain as the women you master only the slapping language and know only the way of wail and weeping

Then this appeals the world freemen and this it begs Kofi Annan and a third begs Amr Moussa and fourth he demands peaceful demonstrations and as if they did not hear to his saying ( ( O you the prophet incited the believers to the fight ) )

You were fed up with the fight of the conferences and the oratorical battles ohm came to you that you take the jihad way and carry the sword that sent by it the prophets master

And we beg from you that you do not be involved as usual in the denial of what will do it satisfaction of the Americans

He has ordered the prophet - peace be upon him - and he is master the merciful are with the slitting of the necks of some prisoners and their slow killing

And for us it is an example and a good example

As for you, the Roman dog Bush, I hope you are displeased and we wait for you with God's Help tough days and you and your soldiers today who tred Iraq's land will regret it.

And she dared in it to the Muslims fever

And another message to traitor Pervez Musharraf then we say to him that we in wait for your meeting with your soldiers


We demand of the American and will take revenge for the blood of our brothers in and Iraq and elsewhere

And as for you and the Americans soldiers wife then we say that we offered to the American administration this prisoner in exchange for some of the prisoners in Abu Ghareb prison but they refused

Then we say but if the dignity of Muslims and Muslims in Abu Ghareb prison and others is worth theur blood and souls

we tell you to know that the coffins will arrive to you one coffin after another, as your people are slaughtered in this way.........

Then you kill the polytheists where you find them and you take them and count them and place them where they can be seen.

Allah is the greatest and the honour to Allah and to its messenger and to the militants

And our last claim is that the praise of Allah is the Lord of the Worlds

Abu Mus'ab Alzrqawy
Prince of Al Tawhid group and jihad
Iraq
22 Rabi I 1425
*******************
11/5/2004

And you see the slaughter, your fighting brothers suspend the head of this unbeliever on one of Baghdad bridges so that they teach a lesson to others from the infidels and serves as a witness to the honour of the Muslims
Do they really believe this shit?
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Old 13th May 2004, 22:15   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
m0e, I disagree since the US doesn't have one religion, we certainly aren't going to destroy "all others."
I do not condone or am I trying to promote either of my “solutions”, I am just stating the obvious end result of Bush’s “war on terror”.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
And Muslims are everywhere in this country, they are hard workers and if they left we would be doing ourselves a disservice.
Religious persecution has existed in America since its inception. This country was founded by a group of male caucasian protestant landowners and if you didn’t fit all of those requirements you weren’t allowed to participate in the government. Take a long hard look at our current government and try to come up with any real evidence that we have advanced from that. Non-male’s and non-caucasian’s are allowed to participate but they are not allowed to set policy. We have even had non-protestants in positions of power but they don’t actually practice the religions they claim to be a part of.
This is the country we (Americans) live in, like it or not. If you don’t like it I encourage you to try and change it, but the federal government is too large to be controlled anymore, not by the public, nor by the government itself. At the moment we are hanging on the precipice, too bloated and fragile to be pulled back whole. How much of our country we can save I’m not sure. Nor am I sure what should be jettisoned. This country was made prosperous by a convergence of ideas from people around the world exploiting the natural resources of North America in the name of one nation. I personally feel it is just plain stupid to be prejudiced against someone because of how they look when they are born or their parents’ religious beliefs.
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Old 13th May 2004, 22:16   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bilbo Baggins
Do they really believe this shit?
Even if there was one who didn't, he probably wouldn't dare say it. Doing so would surely mean his own death, and no doubt by the same means in which Berg was murdered.

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Old 13th May 2004, 22:39   #100
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Fuck it!

He was not killed because he was jewish, he was killed because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Like so many others.

I am sick and tired of people taking individual events and turning them around to try and prove that killing any human being is somehow justified. It is not written in any religous book, any where that the taking of human life is acceptable under any circumstances. Bollocks posted by all you lazy arsed, fat headed, rednecked wankers means absolutley nothing to me until I know you have been there, and have looked a dying man in the eyes as you killed him. Smelled the shit that comes out his body as you take his life. None of you armchair heros know what your talking about.

YOU ARE ALL FULL OF SHIT UNTIL YOU HAVE SMELT THE SHIT OF YOUR DEAD ENEMY. AND I Mean all of you.

'In this country, it takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.'"
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Old 13th May 2004, 22:45   #101
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Sorry O knower of all that happens in war...
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Old 13th May 2004, 22:46   #102
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Sorry about that last post.

I've just been in a fight in a pub with a fat wanker who was loudly telling every one how if he was "over there" he would do this, and he would do that and blah, blah, blah,

It came to blows and the wannabe war hero called the police and I've been arrested and charged with assualt.

So, big fine at least, maybe short prison term. FUCK IT.

Probably wrong place to post. I appologise.

'In this country, it takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.'"
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Old 14th May 2004, 02:38   #103
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i just downloaded this movie

omg this is the most disturbing clip i have ever seen.

search in kazaa for "Nick Berg"

and u will find heaps
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Old 14th May 2004, 02:46   #104
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I just noticed something rather funny in a sick way,

when I read GD posts, it said, in this order:

Funniest. Pictar. Ever.
American Beheaded
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Old 14th May 2004, 13:51   #105
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The killing of another U.S. civilian in Iraq!

I think that it's a terrible atrocity that terrorists commited against Nick Berg. This isn't the first instance where a hostage has been killed since the invasion of Iraq by the U.S.A., and it more than likely won't be the last. The only difference in this killing and some of the previous ones, was the fact that it was videotaped and put on an Internet web site.
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Old 14th May 2004, 19:57   #106
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I wonder how the family of Berg must be feeling right now.
On every news channel, every five minutes they bring up his death.
They describe it so realisticly that you do not need to watch the video.
They show images of his killer and speak his name over and over and over and over and over
I'm sure the press waited all of two minutes before they had reporters at the family's house, asking for comments and such
If your son or daughter was killed, would you want to see it?
Hear about it day in and day out?
Know that millions of people are downloading his execution .mpg, .avi, .rm, .wmv, .etc for fun and profit?
I'm all for some free speech, but with every right comes responsibility.
And lets not forget about the Iraqi prisoners
Bad enough you were sodomized with various tools and hammers and such, but theres a bonus.
You're number 3 on the daily download list of Kazaa networks.
YOUR family must be thrilled.
But at least the american press is EQUALLY beligerent.
They posted both sets of images with equal disregard.
Makes me long for the days of Clinton and stained dresses.

Last edited by godoncrack; 14th May 2004 at 20:51.
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Old 14th May 2004, 20:45   #107
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YUP

No shit, God! Well said!

Jason
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Old 14th May 2004, 22:34   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bazman 63
Although the normal practice of holding prisoners is to exchange them for others, I think those bastards would have topped him anyway. The prisoner abuse photos are just the excuse this time.
Maybe, maybe not.

The Iraqi society is very much based on honour. If somebody humiliates you you have to get revenge otherwise you'd lose face.

This group will probably get a lot of new recruits after getting their name out all over the world.

In other words: At this moment slaughtering an innocent victim was the perfect publicity stunt.
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Old 14th May 2004, 22:55   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by godoncrack

I'm all for some free speech, but with every right comes responsibility.
Very well put. If I had prints of some of the images I saw on the news hanging on the walls of my house, child protective services would take our children, but there it is on the television. These photos were originally released to the public to 1. make money and 2. for political gain. I don’t believe in censorship but we all need to be responsible and respectful of others if we want society to work.
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Old 14th May 2004, 22:57   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by gaekwad2
Maybe, maybe not.

The Iraqi society is very much based on honour. If somebody humiliates you you have to get revenge otherwise you'd lose face.
This was not Iraqis who did this, the killer is from Jordan, the rest could be from any Arab country.

Seems like the USA is not the only "occupying" country here, the killer bastards come from all over.

Food for thought: Since those killers are so busy in Iraq, has that prevented further attacks on American soil?
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Old 14th May 2004, 23:41   #111
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Bergs's family have blamed Bush and Cheney for his death.

'In this country, it takes all the running you can do to stay in one place.'"
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Old 15th May 2004, 00:22   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bazman63
Bergs's family have blamed Bush and Cheney for his death.
Rightfully so.
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Old 15th May 2004, 00:55   #113
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I blame the Backstreet Boy* with the knife.








*There were five Backstreet Boys, weren't there?
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Old 15th May 2004, 00:58   #114
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(Dinner fork and) knife wielding Backstreet Boys

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Old 15th May 2004, 08:39   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildrose-Wally
This was not Iraqis who did this, the killer is from Jordan, the rest could be from any Arab country.
It was aimed at the Iraqi public.

Look at it as an advertisement saying "We are the ones that revenge those of your brothers that were mistreated by the Americans."

The Iraqi majority won't even fall for it (hopefully).

But looking at people round here saying "let's behead a POW now!" even though westerners are said not to be as attracted by the concept of vengeance it's easy to see how it'll get them new followers.
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Do they really believe this shit?
Now they have to.

They have to believe that what they did was justified.
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Old 15th May 2004, 11:55   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by aFfLiCtEd
Rightfully so.
Becuase?...Bush and Cheny were in the video with the masks? Or Bush and Cheny didn't stop worring about the rest of the United States and focus only on what every single american was doing at every single instant in Iraq?
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Old 15th May 2004, 12:11   #117
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well, this does show that there's some failing in peoples' security over there - the question about whether more can be done is a little more sweeping than that...

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Old 15th May 2004, 12:54   #118
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Becuase?...Bush and Cheny were in the video with the masks? Or Bush and Cheny didn't stop worring about the rest of the United States and focus only on what every single american was doing at every single instant in Iraq?
Or maybe because Bush and Cheney started that war and turned Iraq into a playground for terrorists?
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Old 15th May 2004, 13:23   #119
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Someone gets a semi-quick death, but because they're chanting and his head is off and it's on film it's oh so much worse. How many people have been killed so far in more painful and/or worse ways?

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Old 15th May 2004, 13:51   #120
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Ummmmm...........none?
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