Old 12th February 2005, 03:03   #281
spiderbaby1958
Major Dude
 
spiderbaby1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 789
Why is it that there's always someone who wants a thread to die after it becomes interesting?

Quote:
Originally posted by Vytas
"Misquoted?" That's your best response? I suppose Christ was crucified because He was misquoted.

How do you know you are following any of His teachings? Maybe He was misquoted, over and over and over again. Your response is one of convenience. It flies in the face of the evidence. Read the recent posting by Matress.
Again: WHAT EVIDENCE? The only evidence is that a bunch of stuff was written down a long long time ago.

I didn't necessarily say he was misquoted. You said there were only three possibilities, and I said: No, there's at least one more.

I don't know what the truth is. I never claimed to know what the truth is. However, this much I do allege: You don't know what the truth is either. Which is fine... unless yo want to remake our society in the image of your own willful dumbness. That when your faith becomes my problem.

Like I said before, I follow Christ's teaching because I find them to be practical and deeply true. Whether he was the actual source or if he was insane, if he was everything he supposedly claimed to be, or if he never existed-- none of that has any real bearing on that. All myths, whether they are true are not-- deserve to be regarded for their deeper meaning. Literal minds often overlook that.

Last edited by spiderbaby1958; 12th February 2005 at 03:19.
spiderbaby1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 03:51   #282
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
I don't know what the truth is. I never claimed to know what the truth is. However, this much I do allege: You don't know what the truth is either. Which is fine... unless yo want to remake our society in the image of your own willful dumbness. That when your faith becomes my problem.
I'm trying to reason with you, not impose anything on you.

Willful dumbness? That remark doesn't really offend me.

Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 18-19
"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God."

I encourage you NOT to miss out on the greatest love story of all time and eternity. It is YOUR choice.
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 04:11   #283
spiderbaby1958
Major Dude
 
spiderbaby1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 789
You're trying to reason with me without using reason. No task for the intellectally lazy, I'll grant you that.
spiderbaby1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 04:41   #284
manthabeats
Winamp's Cinematographer
(Major Dude)
 
manthabeats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hollywood (in 3-6 years)
Posts: 655
Send a message via Yahoo to manthabeats
Damn, I thought it had died, till I checked my email and sure enough!

Currently filming: Youtube stuff
My Website
manthabeats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 04:42   #285
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
I could have the inclination, but I don't have the time to start all over again. Please go back to the first page of this whole thread. Read all of the comments and follow the referenced links.

If you are tempted to believe only in what your senses will tell you, I suggest you read the story about "Flatland." I repeat the link to it here. Think outside our limited box.

http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Flatland.html

I wish you well.
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 04:44   #286
manthabeats
Winamp's Cinematographer
(Major Dude)
 
manthabeats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hollywood (in 3-6 years)
Posts: 655
Send a message via Yahoo to manthabeats
Please make that the last post, geez. If I were a mod I would put a stop to this madness, its never going to end.

Currently filming: Youtube stuff
My Website
manthabeats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 04:53   #287
spiderbaby1958
Major Dude
 
spiderbaby1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 789
What's your problem? Is someone forcing you to log in here? Isn't that what these forums are for?
spiderbaby1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 05:03   #288
manthabeats
Winamp's Cinematographer
(Major Dude)
 
manthabeats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hollywood (in 3-6 years)
Posts: 655
Send a message via Yahoo to manthabeats
No, this is simply a circular argument thats going around and around and never really getting anywhere. Anyway, go on, don't mind me, I just log in here to be forced to look at this thread, not.

Currently filming: Youtube stuff
My Website
manthabeats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 05:08   #289
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
The purpose of the program is to provide thinking, seeking people with scientific evidence that God does exist and that the Bible is His Word.


uh right. and like i really believe that page

and i second that, close it it has gotten out of hand

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 05:20   #290
spiderbaby1958
Major Dude
 
spiderbaby1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 789
Well, it can't be proven, so I suppose that it is circular in that sense.

Quote:
Originally posted by Vytas

I encourage you NOT to miss out on the greatest love story of all time and eternity. It is YOUR choice.
You see, this is what pisses me off, This presumption that because I don't embrace all of someone's dogma, I can't possibly have any relationship with God whatsoever. Athiests aren't insulted by being talked down to like this, but I am.
spiderbaby1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 07:50   #291
bgesley
Major Dude
 
bgesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: without wax
Posts: 948
Send a message via AIM to bgesley
Quote:
Originally posted by Vytas
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Flatland.html

I wish you well.
That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

This may sound weird but has anyone ever gotten the feeling that those who are devoted to religion seem like the type who would crack pretty quickly in an interrogation room? I'm always wondering if before they were devoted to religion they had this incredible resistance and will against those beliefs. But despite the reluctance and flat out denial of religion they eventually caved in and became completely maleable. The only reason they don't detract from their new belief system is because once you're broken, you can't break again.

They say we all have a breaking point. I guess those who haven't found religion will soon find it when they are pushed to the limits. I know everyone is sort of picking on you Vystas but considering your the only strong religious person in this thread anymore you also serve as a great example.

Take Vystas, an incredibly skeptical person for a long time. Then regretably he is stricken with an enormous ammount of grief (an area of the human condition where I deal greatly in. Hospice bereavement services) and from that point on accepted Jesus into his heart.

This, I always felt, answered why a lot of people either in prison, or rehab, or therapy groups somehow end up "finding god"

bgesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 16:11   #292
spiderbaby1958
Major Dude
 
spiderbaby1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 789
Either the universe happened by accident or it didn't. Either proposition seems pretty unlikely to me, and so I choose what works. I may be wrong to believe, but I find that a general belief in a mysterious God works for me. Seeing a moral order to the world makes life a lot easier and more meaningful, regardless of the answers that I cannot know, at least as long as I am in this life.

It doesn't appear to me that dogmatic belief, the belief that absolute truth is knowable in this life, really works for people. Vystas himself says that every time he strays, he makes an error. His belief system requires perfect adherence in order to work, and perfection is very very difficult for human beings.

When dogmatic believers fall from grace... hoo boy! Think of all the clergymen who wind up involved in weird sex scandals. I knew a guy in my last job who was always critical of my "cafeteria-style" Chrisianity. He's in prison now, for sex with a minor... this is an absolutely true story. You may think George Bush has better intentions than Osama bin Laden, and maybe but he does-- but he also kills more people than Osama bin Laden. One thing that Osama and W do have in common is that both men get down on their knees to pray.
spiderbaby1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 17:13   #293
shakey_snake
Forum Domo
 
shakey_snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Everyone, get over here for the picture!
Posts: 4,313
Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
Again: WHAT EVIDENCE? The only evidence is that a bunch of stuff was written down a long long time ago.
Dude, tell me about it. We dont even know for sure who the first US president was...


elevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladylevitateme
shakey_snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 18:31   #294
will
Nullsoft Newbie (Moderator)
 
will's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sheffield, England
Posts: 5,569
In other news, everything that has been written down is 100% fact. For it is written.

DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS
will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 18:39   #295
shakey_snake
Forum Domo
 
shakey_snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Everyone, get over here for the picture!
Posts: 4,313
Which is exactly why the Gospel of Thomas and other pseudepigraphic writings are canonized


elevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladylevitateme
shakey_snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 21:27   #296
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
Vystas himself says that every time he strays, he makes an error. His belief system requires perfect adherence in order to work, and perfection is very very difficult for human beings.
You can't even get my name straight and you can't get what I say straight either. You continue to look upon Christians as weak people who turn to God as a crutch. That is offensive.

"Making an error" was in reference to whenever I've underestimated the accuracy and deapth of the Bible, not about adhering to something like some blithering idiot.

I'm not intimidated in the least. But I know I'm wasting my time here.
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 21:31   #297
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
I find that a general belief in a mysterious God works for me.
You worship a god of YOUR own making. That is no different than building a golden calf and worshipping it. It's called IDOLITRY.
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 21:36   #298
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally posted by will
In other news, everything that has been written down is 100% fact. For it is written.
Good to see you back here, Will. You couldn't stay away either, huh? :-)

Bye!
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 21:38   #299
mikeflca
Major Dude
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: san diego, california.
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally posted by Vytas
You worship a god of YOUR own making. That is no different than building a golden calf and worshipping it. It's called IDOLITRY.
Oh my....here comes the "OMG my religion is better than yours!" arguments......

mikeflca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2005, 21:53   #300
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
I merely made an observation and defined what I saw. I said NOTHING about my "religion" or beliefs in this regard.

The triumph of postmodernism appears to have obliterated the ability to think clearly.
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2005, 01:05   #301
dlichterman
Forum King
 
dlichterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Where Hell Froze Over
Posts: 2,466
Vytas, dude, EDIT BUTTON!!!!!!!!!

3 posts within 9 minutes......jesus christ

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
dlichterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2005, 01:06   #302
bgesley
Major Dude
 
bgesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: without wax
Posts: 948
Send a message via AIM to bgesley
Yeah the more we think the worse it gets. The more we become incorrect. The cloudier it gets from knowing the truth that God exists and the earth is flat.

dlitcherman: God works in mysterious ways! LOL

bgesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2005, 01:06   #303
mikeflca
Major Dude
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: san diego, california.
Posts: 623
you said it as if your belief system was a lot different and as a result, superior.

mikeflca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2005, 01:22   #304
shakey_snake
Forum Domo
 
shakey_snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Everyone, get over here for the picture!
Posts: 4,313
Quote:
Originally posted by Vytas
You worship a god of YOUR own making. That is no different than building a golden calf and worshipping it. It's called IDOLITRY.
That is your own belief, not mine.

While I have agreed with pretty much everything you've said so far, I disagree with you there, Vytas.


elevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladylevitateme
shakey_snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2005, 01:51   #305
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
A true Christian is someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. It requires HUMBLING yourself to freely allow God to lead you and to grow your character.

When you accept and study His Word - the Bible - as His chosen method of teaching us about Himself and His character, you get to know Him. It becomes a relationship with someone who is very real - certainly to me. You can't have a relationship with someone you don't know.

Someone else here has said they believe in a mysterious god, because it WORKS. I hope I am wrong, but that strikes me more as believing in something you make up. It "works" because it merely reflects whatever you already wanted to do. There is no relationship with a god who is something foggy out there. It is NOT biblical. It certainly is NOT Christianity.

Almost 90 percent of Americans call themselves Christians. Most of them are only culturally Christian. In practice, they are no different from the rest of society.

You judge for yourself if one is better than the other.
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2005, 21:27   #306
mikeflca
Major Dude
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: san diego, california.
Posts: 623
figures. once people start arguing over whcih religion is "better," things really have deteriorated.

You said someone believing in a mysterious God can't have a relationship with God. first, how would you know this? second, how would this be better or worse? Perhaps it is better not to believe you have a relationship with God, since that way people won't believe that God told them to start a war.

Then you get even funnier. A mysterious God is made up, whereas the Biblical God is real, and this this is better?

mikeflca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2005, 22:18   #307
Vytas
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Clarita, CA USA
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeflca
figures. once people start arguing over whcih religion is "better," things really have deteriorated.

You said someone believing in a mysterious God can't have a relationship with God. first, how would you know this? second, how would this be better or worse? Perhaps it is better not to believe you have a relationship with God, since that way people won't believe that God told them to start a war.

Then you get even funnier. A mysterious God is made up, whereas the Biblical God is real, and this this is better?
This whole message illustrates why I am wasting my time here. I am going to bite my lips and get out of this insane asylum.
Vytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2005, 03:49   #308
Mattress
Forum King
 
Mattress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,577
I think he was saying you can't have a relationship with a god that isn't real.
Assuming that christianity is true, then in order to have a relationship with God you would have to believe that Jesus was the son of God, and that God loves his creation and is an active part of it, etc., etc. Since it seems that this is not what spiderbaby believes, but rather in a "mysterious god," whatever that means, and he doesn't believe that Jesus was the son of God, then the god he believes in isn't really God, but just a convenient version of god, that spiderbaby prefers to believe in rather than dealing with the real God.

At least that's the way I read it.
Mattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2005, 04:08   #309
mikeflca
Major Dude
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: san diego, california.
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally posted by Mattress
I think he was saying you can't have a relationship with a god that isn't real.
Assuming that christianity is true,
Calling other religions based on such an assumption inferior, is rediculous for a variety of reasons.

mikeflca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2005, 04:20   #310
Mattress
Forum King
 
Mattress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,577
I'm just saying that's where he was coming from. you don't have to agree
Mattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2005, 04:24   #311
mikeflca
Major Dude
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: san diego, california.
Posts: 623
I know, and I am saying that coming from such an angle is rediculous. You don't have to agree with that, either.

mikeflca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2005, 04:55   #312
Mattress
Forum King
 
Mattress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,577
very well then
Mattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2005, 07:25   #313
shakey_snake
Forum Domo
 
shakey_snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Everyone, get over here for the picture!
Posts: 4,313
I've read on this, and here:
http://www.probe.org/docs/origin-rel.html
Provides a summary of the idea of Original Monotheism. which I tend to think is an accurate explaination of various religions.

Were Original Monotheism differs with what Vytas was saying, is that I do not think that spiderbaby is commiting idolitry, because I believe he is just identifying a foggyer version of what I see more clearly.
I'm not saying he is recieving salvation, just as I'm not saying he's heading to hell. I'm just focusing on the similarities, and not the differences.
It's a starting point, not a differing point.


elevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladylevitateme
shakey_snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2005, 17:16   #314
CaboWaboAddict
Forum Sot
(Major Dude)
 
CaboWaboAddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Marietta, Ga. U.S.A.
Posts: 3,915
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeflca
Oh my....here comes the "OMG my religion is better than yours!" arguments......
My religion's better than your religion...
My religion's better than yours...
My religion's better cause we eat Ken-L-Ration...



Oops, wrong song!

Idiot's Advocate
My site (under construction)
CaboWaboAddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump