Old 5th January 2006, 16:11   #81
ElChevelle
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Not at all.
It doesn't help either.
Look at all the bogus info we've gotten since 9/11.
We're torturing.....scratch that....procurring info from prisoners that used to escalate the stupid fucking color scale, thus promoting fear in the citizens which then becomes bad intel.
The government is using 9/11 to promote fear and a confidence in the government to run themselves without the consent of THE PEOPLE.

"We,the people" does not exist anymore.
The politicians decide who runs the government and who makes the laws, not the people. Pull the strings, you corporate bastards!
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Old 5th January 2006, 16:17   #82
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well that's a good way to try to make yourself feel better because your candidate didn't get elected.
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Old 5th January 2006, 16:36   #83
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I had no candidate.
There exists no one (alive) today that I feel can represent me appropriately in government.
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Old 5th January 2006, 16:50   #84
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not even yourself?
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Old 5th January 2006, 18:19   #85
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Of course, I'm the voice of the people and doubt that I could become corrupt with power.....not like the corruption of power that I've abused as mod
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Old 5th January 2006, 19:17   #86
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at least you're honest about your abuse of power

that already puts you into a different class
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Old 5th January 2006, 20:06   #87
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Republicrat?
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Old 5th January 2006, 20:39   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mattress
The NSA can listen to my international communications if it prevents another sept 11th.
Well mine too, until I accidentially mention the words Osama , Bush, and Kill in the same conversation, echelon beeps, and some CIA agents knocks on my door, transport me to a secret prison in the Czech Republic for interregation, and decides never to release me because it would be a PR nightmare.

yeah, small price to pay for some people in a country I haven't even visited, can save their lives.
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Old 5th January 2006, 21:06   #89
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Rather than foil supposed attempts at terrorism against America, perhaps we should keep foiling childrens' attempts at flying:

Quote:
Edward Allen's reaction to being on the government's "no-fly" list should have been the tip-off that he is no terrorist.


"I don't want to be on the list. I want to fly and see my grandma," the 4-year-old boy said, according to his mother.

Sijollie Allen and her son had trouble boarding planes last month because someone with the same name as Edward is on a government terrorist watch list.

"Is this a joke?" Allen recalled telling Continental Airlines agents Dec. 21 at Houston's Bush Intercontinental Airport. "You can tell he's not a terrorist."

She said it took several minutes of pleading and a phone call by the ticket agent to get on the plane to New York.
4-year-old boy shows up on government `no-fly' list

All I can say is Thank George Bush I don't have whiney-assed 4 year olds flying the friendly skies!
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Old 5th January 2006, 21:09   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
Well mine too, until I accidentially mention the words Osama , Bush, and Kill in the same conversation, echelon beeps, and some CIA agents knocks on my door, transport me to a secret prison in the Czech Republic for interregation, and decides never to release me because it would be a PR nightmare.

yeah, small price to pay for some people in a country I haven't even visited, can save their lives.
Gee whiz, you'd think the NSA was a bit smarter than that. Oh well have fun in the Gulag.
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Old 5th January 2006, 21:16   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mattress
Are you saying you think the country would be safer from terrorist attacks if the NSA was not monitoring international communications of those with suspected ties to terrorism?
Are you saying you'd feel safer if your intelligence agencies were allowed to perform any action without the limit of the rule of law? Would you still feel free?

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Old 5th January 2006, 22:42   #92
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Are you saying you'd feel safer if your intelligence agencies were allowed to perform any action without the limit of the rule of law? Would you still feel free?
Our intelligence agencies have operated outside of the law. And they have generally drawn a line between law enforcement and national security.

If the domestic law enforcement line isn't crossed, I don't have a big problem.

As far as I am concern the government should have a free hand in surveillance, as long as that remains a "Don't ask, Don't tell" situation.

So spy all you want, but the main concern is that the use of this intelligence needs to remain internal to the CIA and NSA.

If this doesn't result in the illegal prosecution of US citizens, then I don't have a problem.

Traditionally the CIA have kept their distance from the FBI, but with the Patriot Act, that line becomes a lot grayer.

I don't think the actual spying is important as long as the CIA and NSA remain autonomous.
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Old 5th January 2006, 23:07   #93
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I'm personally worried about giving agencies powers above the law. And the illegal prosecution of non-US citizens isn't any better than of US citizens (I am surprised that so many, particularly in power, draw that line).

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Old 5th January 2006, 23:22   #94
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Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
There are some-- on the the far left, I'll admit-- who would consider jet airliners flying into American skyscrapers to be fairly catastrophic.
Not even NEARLY as serious as what would have happened with Soviet control of Afghanistan, especially considering their friendship with Iran.

We have been playing a pawn game with the Russians and the Chinese for more than 60 years.

And we are not to the endgame yet.
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Old 6th January 2006, 00:33   #95
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Originally posted by zootm
I'm personally worried about giving agencies powers above the law. And the illegal prosecution of non-US citizens isn't any better than of US citizens (I am surprised that so many, particularly in power, draw that line).
This is what really bothers me. Why are there double standards? Why is it easy for elected officials to beat their chests about how they "believe in the dream", the good work the armed forces are doing in Iraq, and how the intelligence world is protecting the nation when almost none of them are sending their children the protect the nation to? Why is it easy to torture someone who is not a citizen but god forbid it happens to our own people?
I really wonder why the Bush twins and the sons and daughters of other elected officials are not on the battlefield?

I once had a manager who always said he believed in the company and the good work we were doing. He always was the first to chastize any employee who suggested change or improvements. He was responsible for me not getting promoted among other things because it was for the "good of the company" and no precedent had ever been set and other such BS.
He really believed in the "dream".....until another company paid him more to believe in their dream.

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
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Old 6th January 2006, 01:27   #96
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That, my friend, is the American Dream.
Dedicate yourself and be loyal until the other guy pays you more.
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Old 6th January 2006, 02:46   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
So spy all you want, but the main concern is that the use of this intelligence needs to remain internal to the CIA and NSA.
Well, first off there are the people who say "If spying will protect our country then do it". Considering the same agencies doing the spying (NSA, CIA, FBI) are the same ones who were already doing it before 9/11 occured and failed to act why should we believe it's doing any good now? We also have remember that according to W we also supposedly have sleeper cells in the country so these would not be domestic to international communicatiosn but ones solely within our own country. We also have to remember another great tragedy brought by the hands of two US born and trained citizens who bombed Oklahoma City. Under the reasoning of these people we would have to spy on and monitor EVERYONE ON THE PLANET because any single one of them could harm the country.

The second thing is I believe that anyone who has this spying committed on them have a right to know - maybe not during the investigation but after it's done and said it needs to be revealed and tracked. If innocent people are targeted over and over again or people are targeted who have nothing at all to do with terrorism then they as well as us need to know about it. The Government does not deserve the power to do as it pleases to whomever it pleases just because we have a war going with Iraq or anyone else. If there is a reasonable threat then do it. But if in the end it was a blatant mistake or that power was being abused in any way the person being investigated as well as the general public have a right to know what is occuring so the abused powers can be reviewed and changed if needed.

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Old 6th January 2006, 14:58   #98
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Originally posted by hgnis
I really wonder why the Bush twins and the sons and daughters of other elected officials are not on the battlefield?
Because their kids are free to make their own decisions and join the military or not as it pleases them, not their parents.

What is the law that the NSA or Bush broke by monitering communications coming in and out of the country?
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Old 6th January 2006, 15:47   #99
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Originally posted by Mattress
[B]Because their kids are free to make their own decisions and join the military or not as it pleases them, not their parents.
So then they do not "believe in the dream"? I am shocked and offended - they should be monitored and tried for not being patriotic. I demand their citizenship be revoked and they sent to a "non torture" country. Oh wait...

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
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Old 6th January 2006, 16:22   #100
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So then they do not "believe in the dream"? I am shocked and offended - they should be monitored and tried for not being patriotic. I demand their citizenship be revoked and they sent to a "non torture" country. Oh wait...


Um... there's no draft. Your ironic arguments have no irony.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 6th January 2006, 16:40   #101
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I don't see the liberals joining Al Qaeda either.

hypocrites.

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Old 6th January 2006, 19:32   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by hgnis
I really wonder why the Bush twins and the sons and daughters of other elected officials are not on the battlefield?
They followed their daddy's example - much easier to drink and do cocaine than to lead any example of a life. Neither of his kids (or Jeb Bush's) have EVER held a job.

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Back in 1755, Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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Old 6th January 2006, 22:08   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx


Um... there's no draft. Your ironic arguments have no irony.
No irony intended, just bewilderment at hypocrisy.

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
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Old 7th January 2006, 11:19   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mattress
I don't see the liberals joining Al Qaeda either.

hypocrites.

I realise this was intended as a joke, but I see so many arguments like this given in earnest that I wonder if there's a huge proliferation of Bipolar Personality Disorder (someone tell me if that's not the one I'm thinking of) in people on the internet.

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Old 7th January 2006, 13:22   #105
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Funny, I see very few bipolar bears here
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Old 8th January 2006, 00:33   #106
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Last bear I saw was a black bear. My buddy shot it in the head with a .22. I had to put that on my "Things not to do" list after that. My buddy was alright after a month or two, but I really think it could have went the other way.

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