Old 15th January 2006, 19:34   #41
mrpsychology
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It is sad. To think of the karmma that will come out of it for those who did. It shoujld be unthinkable to shoot anyone nevermind a child. When i was attending school I wouldnt have thought that any police officer would have fired a gun at a student. To post a picture of a terrorist in reply that I see as a way to cope with the uncomfortable topic. It is uncomfortable because it just boggles the mind to think that the police woudl shoot a kid who ha not fully grown up yet to learn from his mistakes. Death is just not an acceptable way of dealing with the situation. The karma will take care of the situation for for whoever it was who shot the kid. We live in such a retaliatory society, that maybe we can look at this and learn and to try to get rid of this mentality in our law enforcement. The communities need to put pressure on the agencies to step away from this cowboy mentality that takes lives rather than saving them.
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Old 15th January 2006, 20:06   #42
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Originally posted by MidnightViper88
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If that kid was one of them, I'm sure people's opinions would've been different...
That's the whole point. We have cops acting like the citizens are terrorists. To the point of sending swat to murder a disturbed child.

We are all liars, we are all terrorists and we need soldiers to shoot us for it.
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Old 15th January 2006, 20:27   #43
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No, "citizens" don't go around in public holding guns to people's heads and at police tasks; That's what a "criminal" does...Real or not, it still holds the same water as yelling "Bomb!" in a crowded place, using false conotations in hopes of stirring social chaos...

And quite frankly, I think we should treat criminals like terrorists...Overboard or not, we can't have some psychopath fuckwad running amongst the innocent trying to deliberatly harm everyone else...Better the kid getting hurt than someone who's just trying to live their normal, everyday life...

Although at the same time, SWAT wasn't necessary...A normal police officer could've pulled out his Glock or Colt and done the deed just as well...

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Old 15th January 2006, 20:27   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrpsychology
It is sad. To think of the karmma that will come out of it for those who did. It shoujld be unthinkable to shoot anyone nevermind a child. When i was attending school I wouldnt have thought that any police officer would have fired a gun at a student. To post a picture of a terrorist in reply that I see as a way to cope with the uncomfortable topic. It is uncomfortable because it just boggles the mind to think that the police woudl shoot a kid who ha not fully grown up yet to learn from his mistakes. Death is just not an acceptable way of dealing with the situation. The karma will take care of the situation for for whoever it was who shot the kid. We live in such a retaliatory society, that maybe we can look at this and learn and to try to get rid of this mentality in our law enforcement. The communities need to put pressure on the agencies to step away from this cowboy mentality that takes lives rather than saving them.
I agree with you that violence should be the last resort. I consider myself a pacifist. However, I think you are cutting the kid too much slack. Bringing a gun to school and threatening other students is not a "mistake". Read the article. He refused to negotiate, refused to give himself up. Whether or not the student had a real gun, his intent was to make the school think he did and cause panic.

If you are a police officer and somebody who has threatened another person and refused to negotiate points a gun at you, you aren't going to work things out.

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Old 15th January 2006, 20:28   #45
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You are right. It as well shows how 'good and bad' are consistent in the same. Because the same root that can create a good cop can create a criminal. Many in law enforcement fit the profile that are similar amongst crimninals. Often times people who are submissive to authority often break the law. Actually, when one thinks of the communities in prison, they have a system that is set up in an authoritarian style and even in gangs there are a rank just like law enforcement. One can say that the root is the same but two different ways of expression of the same root. This can show how easy it can be for law enforcement to step over to the bad because especially when they cop attitudes that are against people. I bleive they should look at the attitudes of officers to try to locate feelings that are indifferent even if it is against criminals, because if one appears to fit the profile you can see how innocent people can die as the result of this attitude that can come into play.

A lot of what is shown in the media has effects too. So many of the tv shows have these 'themes' of sarcasm over people's rights. It creates an implication that 'he is noble because he wants to bypass law and go on a hunch to try to achieve justice. Maybe on television it usually works out but in real life this ideology of disgust towards the citizen no matter who it is, will get people killed. This influence is implicit but it is there this antagonism towards our democracy that many television shows like to create.
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Old 15th January 2006, 21:13   #46
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I think that any number of methods which didn't involve lethal force against children would have been more appropriate.

Look, I'm a swat guy. Garden variety handguns won't do much against body armor. I got the kids dad telling me it's a paint ball gun.

So. here's me baddass soldier, gonna take out a little kid. I've got flash bangs. I have tear gas. I got a bean bag shotgun. I have a combat baton.

If I can't get a 8th grader out of a lavatory without killing him, I'd think I needed a new line of work.
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Old 15th January 2006, 21:13   #47
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I agree with you that good and bad aren't clearly defined. There can be "bad" cops and "good" criminals. However, I think anybody would agree that threatening students and police officers is "bad" and the perpetrator certainly was not innocent.

Re your final point. TV shows are designed to be entertaining and suspenseful. If they were 100% realistic, they wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

Look, I agree that lethal force wasn't required. However, I think that it's a bit of a stretch to completly dismiss what he did because he is an 8th grader.

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Old 15th January 2006, 21:45   #48
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Did I ever say that I dismissed what the kid did?.
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Old 15th January 2006, 22:08   #49
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That wasn't directed at you.

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Old 15th January 2006, 22:08   #50
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It is the political influence behind them. Michael Moore does have some good points. It is designed to keep people scared and individuals. If you want to create a society of individuals you repeatedly show them tv shows that have the themes of rape, murder, and kidnapping or all of hte above. The administration does not want an American society that is in unison, they create the division via the stagnant television that is 95% crime and 5% justice at the end. Now, not all tv is like that, I am hopeful with the shows that are building people homes and stuff that I like to see. Not that i am totally saying all crime is bad, but when that is the majority of the themes it gets old. There are very interesting crime stories that can be put on that are not shown. Like how Kessler who had an informant by the name of Scarpa and Scarpa was a killer and it was via the mobster that found the three dead bodies of the activists in Mississippi, the kkk man who was beaten for his confession didnt know it was a mobster that beat the crap outo f him and almost cut his **** off even up to the point of his death. Kennedy and Exner and the mob in chicago that helped him win the election and General Dynamics that had a former FBI guy who sent someone to break into the hotel that JFK and Exner used and they did this and then they held the White House hostage. But, of course the way a lot of the tv is, they have generic same old crimes that are there to create fear. Nothing that would ever intrigue its citizens but designed for people to fear who ever they meet.

The very same drive that allows one to be virtious can lead someone to be criminal. This poses a question about profilers. Wouldnt a real good profiler have to have the same traits as the criminal if he is to be really successful? No, but, the path the profiler went down is the legal path and the path the serial killer went down the wrong path, they both have the same roots.

Now, America keeps a role as a leader when it comes to democracy and ethics. Now, if America wants to lead by example, they will have to adopt some of hte other countries policies regarding the death penalty. Now, there are some people who I would agree the death penalty for but as a very last resort to very last the ultimate last. Like say a serial killer, or someone who has killed and serviing life without parole who keeps on killing in prison. What do you do about the lifers in prison who are committing further crimes such as murder and rape? I think there needs to be more consistency in the legal system. Because you have people who have premeditatively murdered for sport multiple strangers and have not received the death penalty and you hae one who has killed one person for a slightly differnt reason getting death. The guy in washington 92 he said he killed he didnt receive it? One can look at the race issue. If the victim is uppermiddle class white, the media will cover it, if the victim is lower class and minority and has gone through worse, the media probably wont and the offender probably wont get the same punishment as if he woudl have killed an upper middle class white person.

This ties into the issue way back when in our constitution on the issue of weight in votes. I think they made it a proposition for 3 votes for 1 when the person wasn't white? I may not be exactly correct, but hte idea is there. You have one affluent white person who gets murdered and the perpetrator gets death, and you have one killer who has killed 92 people who were runaways and drug addicts and prostitutes. What is the justice system trying to say? That 92 prostitutes equal the life of 2? No, actually less because he didnt get the death penalty. And it is a good thing the supreme court did decide which was (not that i am for the death penalty) but they made the age 18. I was appalled when i heard of the story of a 13 year old being pushed towards it by the DA. And that shows what kind of heart the DA has! Adolescence is the last development of the brain and as well is when they start to develop morals. So if the person hasnt developed the full understanding behind ethics yet, it would be not so 'modeled' for the world that if we were to decide to start executing minors.

Last edited by mrpsychology; 15th January 2006 at 22:24.
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Old 15th January 2006, 22:24   #51
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I agree that the TV news does try to propogate fear. Recently, there was some dumb "special" on how your TV can kill you (one person had died when she didn't read the damn instructions for setting up the cabinet right). However, I think that most people realize that the terrorist mastermind on TV is not real. TV is designed to entertain. The average person doesn't watch a regular court case to be entertained.

I agree with you that our justice system is flawed and there is some prejudice. I would like to see it fixed. However, it is impossible to create any system without prejudice - especially in a democracy. Unless you force people to be tolerant, there will always be some jury member in some case that is motivated by prejudice and not justice.

However, I don't see how any of this is relevant to the guilt or innocence of a kid who threatened classmates and police officers and whether or not their response was justified.

One last thought: I certainly wouldn't call America a leader on ethics.

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Old 15th January 2006, 22:26   #52
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Cartman says:

"Blowing little kids in half with a BFG in school is not cool".
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Old 15th January 2006, 22:30   #53
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People do realize that media is fiction. However, when it comes to our news that is on tv it is skewed, another Moore point. Even if people may not be aware of it, certain messages that are implicit do seep in. You would be amazed at how many people who are in college who participate in class cite tv as their source when they are sharing their view on whta is in the textbook.

And your point is valid.
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Old 15th January 2006, 23:54   #54
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People do realize that media is fiction.
Do they?. Is the militarization of police a response drawn from real threats or from some imagined media hyped one?.

Why do my town clowns have a tank?. Why do they wear body armor on normal patrol?. What are they doing with a machine gun in the trunk?.

..... when crime in all categories is down.....
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Old 16th January 2006, 00:42   #55
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I should have used some of the media is fiction or inspired from. George Bush's relative being a head honcho in Fox links it all together. It is true that if you can influence the press you can influence the country. And then the media can cover the story in teh fashion they choose. In this fashion it is skewed and can be seen from one side or the other rather than being neutral. There have been people who have always looked to harm this country and basically there is a link from the military to the police in politics possibly. The way that there is a war machine that is an economic stimulus. People who are in fear are often more willing to support a war machine.

Your statement about tanks and body armor is good. Because I believe the reason why military when in transit are suppoed to wear bravos instead of because if they wear camous it might put the public in fear of being attacked. So, the body armor on normal patrol for police is a good influence on creating fear in citizens. Kind of like creating a police state and we can throw in wiretapping, Murdering citizens, imprisonment without a trial, it can seem as if we are embracing the former soviet union's policy under Stalin or Lenin. It is a sort of war against its own citizens that this country has engaged in. I am actually pretty amazed at no impeachment hearings or anything coming. I mean with the election fraud, which is another connection to the former soviet union techniques, and with the lies in connection to the war. In a fashion when Al Quada attacked NY they may seem to have fulfilled a preexisting goal of the Administration and as well gave the green light on defeating alot of the civil liberties, it seems as though America has lost if it has to give up certain American uniqueness of 'due process', because, isn't the terrorist's goal to change America's way of life? So, if such topics as warrantless wiretaps has been born out of Sept 11th and as well other forms of secret taking of civil liberties? It amazes me how Bush got upset at how he got confronted about the wiretapping, like America has an expectancy of due process or judges signing warrants prior to searches and wiretaps and the like.
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Old 16th January 2006, 01:44   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
Do they?. Is the militarization of police a response drawn from real threats or from some imagined media hyped one?.

Why do my town clowns have a tank?. Why do they wear body armor on normal patrol?. What are they doing with a machine gun in the trunk?.

..... when crime in all categories is down.....
ever stop to think maybe crime is down because they have m16's in their trunk, and body armor on on all patrols, and now the criminal's know that unless they have a M249 or a similar weapon, the police will be able to match their fire power and body armor. If the bank robbery in Hollywood (years ago) was the only bank robbery where the criminals had body armor and automatic weapons (which is isn't) I would still be all for the militarization of the police simple because it can happen, and I don't want private citizen's being better armed then our police.
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Old 16th January 2006, 02:33   #57
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Well, research has shown that the presence of a gun actually provokes an aggressive response in a situation. A gun creates anxiety and therefore the expectation of death and one can see how a person who is more apt to fight for life would be more prone to aggression in the presence of a gun. The presence of armor and a tank is a statement of aggression. There is a sense that if one thinnks aggression is coming they are prepared for it and may act differntly than other means. It is pretty sad though if kids are to think that they are targets like adults that they will have to have the same amount of cognitive or maturity as adults in situations which are foriegn to them. there is a stratification amongst kids as there are in adults. Certain kids dont get looked at even though they are troublemakers, but if you have a poor kid this kid may get more focus. The idea that only the innercity kid is a troublemaker is not so correct, there is just as much deviance in upperclass children as there is in affluent suburbia. This can create a 'self-fulfiling prophecy' where the poor kid get the implied message they are flawed and therefore fills it that is given to him or her from the teachers and ohters at the school. This is a form of how 'bad kids' can be created, however, mischief is part of being a kid. In the same way people are shaped implicitly by what information is around them. They see in the news all crime and gthey see the tanks and so forth the impression is there, it destroys a society. Maybe that is why so many Americans are actually starving and homeless and so many do not want to do anything about it. however, tv shows like Cops will definitely be good, to be able to make money off of the disorder. As Moore's movie stated, why dont they film the criminal acts of uppermiddle class? As Moore stated, it is more entertaining to see black people and drug addicts and prostitutes being chased down the street.
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Old 16th January 2006, 03:39   #58
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Well that makes everything right in the world today. I am 21, I pull a gun (alleged or not) on someone in a public place, get shot by the cops and all is good in the world. I am 15, I pull a gun, get shot and all is not good.
hmm, maybe I should rape a few at 15 to, I am after all a dumb fuck not culpable for my actions.

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
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Old 16th January 2006, 12:01   #59
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Poeple mature as they grow, some dont. When people get to age 15 and up they start to get an understanding on 'why' certaihn things are wrong, what is behind the ethic rather than just knowing because they are told. It is sad though, America has put to death mentally retarded people.
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Old 16th January 2006, 17:01   #60
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Here are some quotes from www.msnbc.com on the story. It sheds some light about the personality of the kid. below

" ''It's just unbelievable to me that he's gone,'' said Bucky Hurt, a family friend. ''It's very, very devastating. Good kid too — it's a tragedy.'' Family and friends say the boy was emotionally troubled, reportedly bullied at school and had run away from home several times. Lewis said he ''got along with everyone.''Maurice Cotey, who said he grappled with Penley, said he told school officials that he felt Penley's gun and wasn't sure the weapon was real, but did not tell officers until after the shooting. (key point here, the kid shoudl have known him because he went to school and everyone liked him so is it coincidental that he waited until after to let them know?, whta people are stating here is that this kid was a likeable kid who got along well, this sheds some light about how judgement is key) citation continued from www.msnbc.com "emotionally troubled but friendly teen.
''Everyone was his best friend,'' said 18-year-old Steven..." (By TRAVIS REED ASSOCIATED PRESS).

After reading that, it doesnt appear as if this kid was or fits the average profile for a terrorist. If he had a history of violence would so many have stated he was 'friendly?'. Well, everyone has the abiliyt to create violence so this situation is a sad one. It is not the expected he was a bully oh he was nasty and violent and noone liked him kind of expectation.
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Old 16th January 2006, 17:40   #61
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if he was a likeable kid who got along with everyone then why did he run away from home multiple times? Why was he bullied if he got along with everyone?

if everyone is your best friend then no one is your best friend

What happened sucks, but the cop was in the right. Just because he had body armor doesn't mean he wants to risk being shot, possibly shot in the face or head and killed instantly.
In a split second choice between cop and crazy threatening kid brandishing a gun I'll choose the cop. Sorry kid, you had a lot of chances to give yourself up, you had even more chances to not take a gun to school and threaten students and teachers in the first place.

Do you think the cop who shot and killed that kid feels good about it?
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Old 16th January 2006, 18:45   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by hgnis
Well that makes everything right in the world today. I am 21, I pull a gun (alleged or not) on someone in a public place, get shot by the cops and all is good in the world. I am 15, I pull a gun, get shot and all is not good.
hmm, maybe I should rape a few at 15 to, I am after all a dumb fuck not culpable for my actions.
Do you know what effect seven years of growth has on the human mind and understanding?

No, no you don't, you can't, or you wouldn't say that.
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Old 16th January 2006, 19:00   #63
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Quote:
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if he was a likeable kid who got along with everyone then why did he run away from home multiple times? Why was he bullied if he got along with everyone?

It ties down to the 'accepting of the situation'. Do oyu really think that all people who get bullied deserve it? There are many people who are liked that get bullied. It usually is the few antisocial personalities who do the bullying not the whole. So therefore, with the few doing the bullying and the majority liking him, that still fits. part of the reason why states like Goergia and massachusetts have passed laws against bullying, why? because 1) noone wants to get picked on so therefore they dont do anything to draw attention to themselves 2) they figure that someone else will help the person out 3) they figure the teachers willd o their job and prevent such antisocial behavior.

To get bullied at school sends a message however implicit the message may be, when noone comes to the aid of who is bullied, it creates an deep sense of alienation. This doesnt mean that the majority dont like him, however, it creates the idea that 'he may deserve such behavior' because of noone coming to his aid. It creates a sense of distrust to authority because the authority at schools not only often does nothing, but at times can join in. A pellet gun is what it is. The cop who did the killing and the kid who told after the fact will deal with their karma the way that it will, it will be their lesson to learn and their pain to deal with over their actions they created for themselves.

It is false view and self-deception to accept bullying as an acceptable form of behavior. you look at the serial killers in our society and you can draw the conection, why? Because serial killers are sadists just like the bullies are adn they like to demean other people to try to make themselves feel better. We have to be grateful that that is not the majority, so therefore the majority of people at that school can still like the kid because I dont want to believe that the school's majoirty of kids are antisocial kids who are prone due to their unchecked behavior to get into worse trouble, like rape, murder and other forms of heinious deeds bullies can graduate to (not to say all of bullies will, and as well there are levels of picking on, so therefore this is not a deterministic view, some bullies learn and become better people. Often bullies bully because they are not told not to and often want to be stopped but arent).
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Old 16th January 2006, 19:50   #64
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basically I was saying that if he was liked by everyone then he would have been liked by the bullies as well. Generally bullies don't harass people they like.

not that bullying is acceptable behavior but pretty much everyone gets bullied at school, that also doesn't explain why he ran away from home multiple times.

Quote:
originally by Phyltre
Do you know what effect seven years of growth has on the human mind and understanding?
So then why aren't all 15 year olds pulling shit like this? the truth is the vast majority of 15 year olds are smart enough to not do stupid things like this. Heck, the vast majority of 8-year olds know better.
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Old 16th January 2006, 21:24   #65
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As i stated there are various levels of bullying. And Massachusetts and Goergia has created laws against it because we are not talking about just picking on. Emotional problems can be seen as teh result and therefore the teachers like in my day in school often dont do anything and therefore could be seen as liable in the case.

America has a lot of self-centered self-absorbed people, and this self-absorption is a poison to the individual and it is created from the bullying (the high level sort). We always have to be careful on not 'blaming' but, often times bullying happens and goes further because people often like to blame the victim. Objectively the kid did not kill anyone, the kid got killed, that is the objective truth. Perception is creative people often rationalize and one way they do it is to alleviate anxiety and to blame the kid as to state he deserved such is one form of rationalization that the anxiety of the situation creates, because it is normal to have anxiety over the idea of a kid being shot. So one of the processes is to form denial and to accept the situation and to suit it to the needs of the 'ego'.
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Old 16th January 2006, 21:36   #66
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so the kid shouldn't be blamed for threatening violence to students and teachers, and threatening violence to police confronting him?

I never said the kid deserved to be killed, but he certainly shouldn't have been surprised to get shot based on his actions.
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Old 16th January 2006, 21:44   #67
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we can never know whta people are thinking. It is quite possible that a kid would not believe that they would be shot. The experiment at Berkely is a good example on how people often accept the situation. The professor who ran the experiment stopped it because it kind of got out of hand and it showed what power can do.

However, that is a good connection to 'suicide by cop', how people often take a gun that is unloaded and get themselves shot or even a fake gun in an attempt on suicide. And haveing emotional problems and esecially with being bullied, these certain topics can come up. People are shaped by their environemnt and I am not statign there is no responsibility in whta people do, but often times ignorance is the root of evil and when people do not know how to handle situations self-absorption kicks in and they may do some maladaptive behaviors to try to resolve their conflicts.

It is true though, we do not know the full story, and there could have been a lot more behind the kid's running away than what we know superficially from what has been told on the news.
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Old 17th January 2006, 02:12   #68
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Arrrrrrgh! I leave this thread for one day and look what happens: posts the size of history textbooks. I'm not reading through all this carp.

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Old 17th January 2006, 05:53   #69
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I remember 30 years ago. I an relate to being a troubled 15 year old. My dad had died of cancer. I was working full time and going to high school.

I really had more in common with the twenty five year olds that I was working with than the "little kids" I was going to school with. All of my wages went to the household. Not a very happy time.

I remember the neighbors calling the police one time, because I was smashing an old TV set in the back yard with a fire axe..... just taking out some frustration. My mom lent my little brother my car and he wrecked it. So not only was I working 45 hours a week and spending 35 at school, but I had to walk. Not that my truck was much. I pieced it together out of parts from the wrecking yard.

Luckily the cop that showed up didn't shoot me. I really wonder if I would have the same luck today.... being "armed" with an axe.

For a lot of kids, it doesn't even take that much to push them over the edge.

I think the one thing that saved my ass was that the principal at the school told my teachers to leave me alone. I understandably had a problem with falling asleep at my desk.

I dunno. Maybe they should call me next time. Even if the gun was real, I'd take the risk for a kid. I'm not saying the kid might not get thumped pretty good, but shooting a kid is not cool... risk be damned....
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Old 17th January 2006, 13:25   #70
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I remember the neighbors calling the police one time, because I was smashing an old TV set in the back yard with a fire axe..... just taking out some frustration. My mom lent my little brother my car and he wrecked it. So not only was I working 45 hours a week and spending 35 at school, but I had to walk. Not that my truck was much. I pieced it together out of parts from the wrecking yard.

Luckily the cop that showed up didn't shoot me. I really wonder if I would have the same luck today.... being "armed" with an axe.
A cop in my town *couldn't* shoot you if he followed standard procedure, particularly now.

But what if you had a gun, and were shooting an old TV set, and when the officer showed up, you pointed it at him?

Not the same scenario at all. In my town, ALL police officers are required to carry tazers, now, as well as a gun, and the situations where they can use a gun are basically limited to when the other person has a gun, or are too far away for the tazer to be effective.

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Old 17th January 2006, 13:59   #71
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But what if you had a gun, and were shooting an old TV set, and when the officer showed up, you pointed it at him?
Given the attitude of the police I know, I wouldn't have had to point the gun at them. I think I'd stand a pretty good chance of getting shot just for having a gun.
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Old 17th January 2006, 17:57   #72
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Given the attitude of the police I know, I wouldn't have had to point the gun at them. I think I'd stand a pretty good chance of getting shot just for having a gun.
So you're saying asshole cops who don't follow procedure are ... um ... the reason why following procedure and shooting someone that's aiming a gun at you is bad?

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Old 17th January 2006, 18:14   #73
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Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out!

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Old 17th January 2006, 18:22   #74
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Here are some terms you may want to think about, 1-right understanding 2-right thought 3-right speech , part of the 8 paths. It makes sense too, people who understand such, will think such, and will then speak such, and then will have the livelihood of such and then will act as such and put effort as such and will have the mindfulness of such and concentration of such. Now, the such can be what it is. Those who understand life to be a retaliatory one will think in terms of retaliation and therefore they will speak in terms of retaliation and therefore they will have the livelihood of retaliation and put efforts forth towards retaliation and have the actions of retaliation and therefore their mindfulness will be of retaliation and their concentration will be, you can see that this chain is a chain of turmoil and no peace can come from it.
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Old 17th January 2006, 19:29   #75
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Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out!
That's about the mentality I've been seeing lately.
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Old 17th January 2006, 19:43   #76
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If that kid was one of them, I'm sure people's opinions would've been different...
If the kid had been black, we wouldn't be talking about it right now
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Old 17th January 2006, 19:49   #77
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That's about the mentality I've been seeing lately.
It is somewhat appropriate too.

There has been an increase in the violence of crimes. (Not necessarily an increase in violent crime mind you.)

Police have been trained to respond in certain ways. This is common knowledge. IMHO, if you threaten innocents with a weapon, then you threaten the cop that shows up, you must have a deathwish cuz you know how the police will respond. Hell, I aint no cop, but if I was there, I would have shot him.

There are many 'toy' guns (airsoft, BB, whatever) that don't have the orange barrel tip to identify it as such. One of my kids has one, and I made him paint the tip dayglo.

Now we can speculate about how sending in a SWAT team in this case was a little over the top... maybe it was, maybe not. None of us knows all of the details so the issue is moot.

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Old 17th January 2006, 20:04   #78
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My thoughts exactly.

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Old 17th January 2006, 20:15   #79
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Amen.

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Old 17th January 2006, 20:23   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaboWaboAddict
Police have been trained to respond in certain ways.
And lately, not in ways that show common sense.

What is your tactical estimate of a punk kid with a paintball gun?.

My estimate would be zero threat or so low it's laughable... Lets get out the BFG and other toys....

And which is more prudent if you do run into some bad guys and are outgunned?. Do you start a firefight in the street or run away?.

Some dead Hollywood cops show us the wrong choice.
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