Old 16th April 2006, 19:35   #41
mikm
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Originally posted by rockouthippie
Just todays news Chev, they dropped 50 million on Hamas.
Israel will be happy

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Old 16th April 2006, 22:46   #42
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Originally posted by ElChevelle
How's that?
I don't remember them bombing our embassies or blowing themselves up at bus stops.
They come right out and discuss that they want nuclear power, which is more than what we do.
The hypocrisy is that we have nukes yet want no one else to have them.
Are you blind and deaf as well?

200 Recent Volunteers

A 40K Strong Army

There's your bombers...

Chev, I am neither blind nor deaf. More importantly, I’m not näive, you all seem to have a lot of faith in Mr_007, so heed his warning on how radical the Iran president is, along with his other comments, becasue I fully agree with Mr_007.

The question is who will throw the first punch? U.S.A.? Iran? Israel? Palestine? In time, we will find out.

However, the answer is the same. A slugfest; once this day comes, whether in my life or not, I fear and pray for the people who will be involved because it will be devastating.
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Old 16th April 2006, 22:59   #43
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Originally posted by thefarmrecruit
200 Recent Volunteers

Quote:
"Some 200 Iranians have volunteered in the past few days to carry out "martyrdom missions" against U.S. and British interests around the world if Iran is attacked"
Would you not martyr yourself if you were attacked by an overwhelming force?
We have hundreds of thousands prepared in the event we're attacked.
Hypocrisy? Could be.

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Originally posted by thefarmrecruit
A 40K Strong Army
Quote:
Iran has formed battalions of suicide bombers to strike at British and American targets if the nation’s nuclear sites are attacked.
Again, another country has an army. Big deal, there aren't many countries who don't. The fact that they may be suicide bombers makes little difference. They use low-tech, we use high-tech.

Quote:
Originally posted by thefarmrecruit
The question is who will throw the first punch? U.S.A.? Iran? Israel? Palestine? In time, we will find out.

However, the answer is the same. A slugfest; once this day comes, whether in my life or not, I fear and pray for the people who will be involved because it will be devastating.
It's a "warm war" not too different than the "cold war" that existed a couple decades ago. We invaded Afghanistan in search of terrorists, Iraq to depose a dictator/control more oil and now we're going to invade Iran to keep them from having nuclear power? IF we succeed, do we next invade Amsterdam as part of the war on drugs part two?
We enrich uranium, whether we think nukes are good or not. If I were any other country, I'd be scared of the U.S. using them on me more than I'm afraid of Iran using a nuke on me.

I know one country who is finding America amusing as we chase ghosts through the deserts.

Check this out. It's worthy of a good read

By the way, I applaud Foxnews for again using a fear factor in their reporting. It's amazing how a news media can sway public opinion and even elections to please it's dictator (Yuri).

Mind control! The ultimate weapon:

Yuri=Rupert Murdoch

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Old 17th April 2006, 00:33   #44
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Originally posted by rockouthippie
Supposedly, this is a weapon that we won't use.
Huh?? correct me if I'm wrong but haven't America allready used them in aggression twice?


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Iran is a renowned world troublemaker.
As opposed to Britain for Centurys and that still wet behind it's ears (stolen) country America?

Please give me a break and go read your history properly...

And why are UN directives against the likes of Isreal, America, Britain constantly overlooked?

And I just wish that twisted jawed ejit condesending rice would shut the F up. She has yet to utter to semi intelligent syllables put together let alone a word. Call for sanctions? Is she totally moronically stupid or does she practice? Worst thing is watching her blather on is the worrying fact - She actually believes whats she's saying..

Now that is scary...

Jaysus christ - fucking Nixon was impeached for less than what this bunch of clowns are doing...Time you guys woke up, get the feck out of Iraq before it turns into a nightmare worse than Vietnam and get a flipping life...

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Old 17th April 2006, 01:17   #45
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Impeachment won't even help us now.
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Old 17th April 2006, 02:32   #46
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From a strategic perspective:
There will be sanctions against Iran until they short the US oil supply contracts...heh not really. There will not be any move from the Us until it has sevcured a long term energy solution. Israel now will not use nukes as the debris fallout will kill their own people. Iran now, I somehow doubt killing their own people and Palestinians from nukes will matter much if some Imams can convince them it is for Allah and to get rid of infidels. It would have to be a really convincing case as there are several holy sites there.

Suicide bombers? I do not think we should be afraid. I am more concerned of the ill educated culturally ignorant stupid immigration officers in the US and UK incapable of distinguishing between latinos, asians, middle easterners. You would think the most educated countries in the world would be better able to track and pick out these people....oh wait, if you have a shitload of money in your bank account we give you free passes and visas to this country. Big surprise.

There are legitmate people seeking to come here and we turn them away because of money. Immigration reform people? We won't see it in the near future.

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
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Old 17th April 2006, 19:44   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
It's a "warm war" not too different than the "cold war" that existed a couple decades ago. We invaded Afghanistan in search of terrorists, Iraq to depose a dictator/control more oil and now we're going to invade Iran to keep them from having nuclear power? IF we succeed, do we next invade Amsterdam as part of the war on drugs part two?
We enrich uranium, whether we think nukes are good or not. If I were any other country, I'd be scared of the U.S. using them on me more than I'm afraid of Iran using a nuke on me.

I know one country who is finding America amusing as we chase ghosts through the deserts.

Check this out. It's worthy of a good read

By the way, I applaud Foxnews for again using a fear factor in their reporting. It's amazing how a news media can sway public opinion and even elections to please it's dictator (Yuri).

Mind control! The ultimate weapon:

Yuri=Rupert Murdoch

Today in Tel Aviv

What do you think will be Israel's response? Probaly not giving them money..

I'm not saying that this will start with America Nuking Iran or anyone else, but a much better chance will be Israel invading Palestine or visa-versa. If that happens it will be a world conflict, America will have to back Israel because we helped with their creation, and Palestine will ask the Arab and Persian community to help them. Then as an after effect the use of Nuclear weapons will be the deciding factor. A big game of chicken, and I don't know which side will pull away first...

I liked the article. Perhaps it was a little outdated, but still very well written. Also, I'm going to Xian this summer to teach english. So I hope I can really get a feel for the culture there and what drives them.

Also, I knew you would comment on the Fox article. Don't take me as a War Hawk or anything like that. I make sure to get my news from many different opinions. BTW Yuri was easily the coolest CC leader.


hgnis-
Quote:
You would think the most educated countries in the world would be better able to track and pick out these people....oh wait, if you have a shitload of money in your bank account we give you free passes and visas to this country. Big surprise.
You would think after Sept. 11th we would learn that this world isn't happy go lucky, before we had physical borders like the ocean to protect us. Now we are as vulnerable as ever. It's too bad we have to pin this on the illegal immigrants. Still, I hope through all this something good comes out. Because, if I was a terrorist and I wanted to sneak any kind of weapon into the USA, it would be an obvious choice to ship it to Mexico (just hand them some money and your good) and drive it straight through our customs using fake ID's.


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Jaysus christ - fucking Nixon was impeached for less than what this bunch of clowns are doing...Time you guys woke up, get the feck out of Iraq before it turns into a nightmare worse than Vietnam and get a flipping life...
Do you truly think that if we left Iraq right now the problem will fix itself???

For those who care to be educated

"This point deserves attention; for if a democratic republic, similar to that of the United States, were ever founded in a country where the power of one man had previously established a centralized administration and had sunk it deep into the habits and the laws of the people, I do not hesitate to assert that in such a republic a more insufferable despotism would prevail than in any of the absolute monarchies of Europe; or, indeed, than any that could be found on this side of Asia."

Heres the Link

This was written by Alexis de Tocqueville, for those who do not know who he was, he lived during a more intelligent period of American history. That being its founding years. He spent multiple years learning about the newly formed American Democracy, in hope that he could shed some light on the French. Possibly, in one of their many revolutions they might do something right.

The fact is that America isn't doing the wrong thing of liberating Iraq from a dictatorship. It's that if people are given Democracy, they usually don't know how to deal with the freedoms that Democracy brings. If anyone knows the solution please share, because I'm all out of ideas.
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Old 17th April 2006, 20:10   #48
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I dunno. From a strategic perspective it would be easier to come across the Canadian border as there is more wilderness than almost everything else.
As for how to deal with a democracy: it is always a fragile issue - especially when people's minds have not been free for a long time. Such ennabling behaviors come from treating the people and country as one would teach a child.
My main problem with this school of thought is that as a thinker I am able to read, analyze, apply information to situations and formulate an optimal solution. Not because I am particularly talented or superior but because I am secure enough in my psyche to challenge all assumptions and question every premise in making decisions - even my own.
I believe others should be capable of doing the same. Unfortunately history and the psyche of the masses prove otherwise.

I am so important I feel the need to let it be known like a liberal discovering the internets for the first time. Uh hur hur hur. I also wash myself with a rag on a stick.
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Old 18th April 2006, 18:34   #49
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Originally posted by mikm
Israel will be happy
I so sorry about this news
we in iran have more problem also help 50million dollar to
palestine government?
This is not shameful for mahmoud ahmadinejad that say:
We enrichment uranium?
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Old 18th April 2006, 18:37   #50
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This is most stupid.
we help to palestine and hizb allah lebanon.
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Old 24th April 2006, 16:18   #51
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Originally posted by Mattress
I say wait and let Iran start the next war.
yea let them and then we have to muster up a retalatory strike! (sarcasm in case you didnt notice) remember what happened last time we said "let those boys duke it out" (WW2)

Quote:
Originally posted by thefarmrecruit
Well, techniqully Iran would not have been our "buddies". The reason why we sold the means for Suddamm to build SCUD missles is so that Iran would not win.
im not sure you knwo wasnt there a big stink cuz we sodl weapons to iran too??? i dunno maybe im lying these days (more sarcasm) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair

lets all be hoenst here folks. this is all goign to coem to a head sometime. Iran is flipping all the right switches. You cannot deny that IRAN does NOT equal Iraq its nto the same situation. Its not a hunch they are comign out right and saying that they want adn are seeking nuclear proliferation. I mean come on what more do you want for them to shove a rocket down your throat? Its sad really because certain people beleive we sh oudl be provked before we attack but lets jsut ignore all the signs leadign to an attack. Lets ignore the threats the massing of troops etc. and then when the attack is being carried out against us all the doubters will jsut say "dang we shoulda attacked whiel we had the upper hand." Woudl you rather deal with a problem early or have to clean up messes later....
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Old 1st May 2006, 12:01   #52
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Originally posted by thefarmrecruit

For those who care to be educated

"This point deserves attention; for if a democratic republic, similar to that of the United States, were ever founded in a country where the power of one man had previously established a centralized administration and had sunk it deep into the habits and the laws of the people, I do not hesitate to assert that in such a republic a more insufferable despotism would prevail than in any of the absolute monarchies of Europe; or, indeed, than any that could be found on this side of Asia."
What about Germany and Japan?. It did take completely conquering them to remove them from being despotates, but so far it looks good for 60 years.

It looks like when we half ass this we fail. Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam etc. are examples.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...90723502527420
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Old 12th June 2006, 08:41   #53
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REGARDING THAT ONLY 45 PER CENT OF AMERICAN VOTERS REALLY VOTED AND THEN ONLY THE 50 PER CENT OF THEM ARE BUSH'S SUPPORTERS I DO NOT ACCEPT THAT THE WORLD IS RULED BY SO FEW PEOPLE.THE WORLD'S PEACE IS IN DANGER BY BRAINLESS AND UNMORAL PEOPLE
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Old 12th June 2006, 09:02   #54
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Yeah, Mad Jad, Kim Jong et al are brainless and unmoral, But you don't have to shout about it!
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Old 12th June 2006, 09:33   #55
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DO YOU AGREE WITH ME BILBO?
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Old 12th June 2006, 09:39   #56
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Turn off your caps
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Old 12th June 2006, 15:12   #57
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Originally posted by Smeggle
fucking Nixon was impeached for less than what this bunch of clowns are doing...Time you guys woke up, get the feck out of Iraq before it turns into a nightmare worse than Vietnam and get a flipping life...
You want to put Dick Cheese in power... ya ... OK.


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Old 12th June 2006, 17:04   #58
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Jaysus christ - fucking Nixon was impeached for less than what this bunch of clowns are doing...Time you guys woke up, get the feck out of Iraq before it turns into a nightmare worse than Vietnam and get a flipping life...
No. Nixon was impeached because he was personally involved in a conspiracy involving obstruction of justice. This was the coverup of the bugging of the Watergate hotel.

Nixon was impeached for less crimes than Clinton. Clinton could add perjury to obstruction of justice. No one has proven that Bush has done a single illegal thing.

Even the wiretapping he has ordered is legal. If you don't like the patriot act, get your congressman to change it. Oh I forgot, the democrats voted for it too. And um, they voted for the war. But now somehow this is the fault of the president?.

We're at war, the southwest is totalled, the economy collapsed from rampant fraud in the stock market and we can blame Bush because this was expensive?. Could the democrats shop at Walmart and get us out of this shit cheaper?.

The main gripes against Bush:

1. Bad intelligence which led us to believe there were WMDs. Sadam wanted us to think this and in 8 years the Clinton administration never came up with intelligence to contraindicate this. Nor did the Clinton administration prosecute the ejection of the weapons inspectors.

2. Wiretapping. This is legal under the patriot act.

3. The national debt. Things get expensive when we have a war and extreme natural disasters.

4. Tax breaks for the rich.... yeah who cares.... That's probably break even.... economic gains vs. expense.

5. Weird conspiracy theories that somehow Bush planned 9-11 to seize control of the government.... yeah right.....

6. Said he wanted to somehow fix social security and failed like every other president.

7. High oil prices. Isn't $5 a gallon gas every liberals wet dream?.

8. He made money on this or that?. Yeah, when did running businesses that make a profit become a bad thing in america?.

Bush is not Hitler, a nazi, or the devil. He is perhaps not the greatest president. But then I don't remember a president since Roosevelt that had as many bad things happen.

Who knows?. Maybe if all this stuff didn't happen, we'd even like George Bush.

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Old 12th June 2006, 17:24   #59
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The president is a great patsy when things are going wrong.
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Old 12th June 2006, 19:38   #60
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1. Bad intelligence which led us to believe there were WMDs. Sadam wanted us to think this and in 8 years the Clinton administration never came up with intelligence to contraindicate this. Nor did the Clinton administration prosecute the ejection of the weapons inspectors.
"But Clinton" is not a valid excuse.

Quote:
2. Wiretapping. This is legal under the patriot act.
I think "constitutionality" is the issue here

Quote:
3. The national debt. Things get expensive when we have a war and extreme natural disasters.
That's why you don't cut taxes during wartime.
Quote:
5. Weird conspiracy theories that somehow Bush planned 9-11 to seize control of the government.... yeah right.....
I hardly think that this is a "major gripe".
Quote:
7. High oil prices. Isn't $5 a gallon gas every liberals wet dream?.
Yeah, of course.
Quote:
8. He made money on this or that?. Yeah, when did running businesses that make a profit become a bad thing in america?.
No-bid contracts are another thing.

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Old 13th June 2006, 04:38   #61
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Originally posted by rockouthippie
No one has proven that Bush has done a single illegal thing.
I'd like to point something out here.

If any modern president (aka FDR and later) tried to pull half of the stuff they've gotten away with in the 19th century, they would have been impeached.

The power of the executive branch is and has been since FDR been way overpowered. Now, that power is being used in a manner you nanny-state, court-packing, "living document", neoliberal, panty wastes don't like. WELL GO FUCKING FIGURE. WE MIGHT AS WELL HAVE A FREAKING ROMAN EMPEROR.

Now, thanks to policy you support fucking up our government, ROH can say, "No one has proven that Bush has done a single illegal thing" AND HE's 100% CORRECT. YOUR FUCKING FAULT.


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Old 13th June 2006, 20:18   #62
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4301889.stm

The russians are the ones we should make accountable. Without russian involvement the matter would be moot.
What a great suggestion! Shall we make USA accountable for equipping taliban and killing our boys in Afghanistan back in 80s? Wouldn't it be fair?
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Old 13th June 2006, 23:49   #63
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What a great suggestion! Shall we make USA accountable for equipping taliban and killing our boys in Afghanistan back in 80s? Wouldn't it be fair?
Huh?.

The US did equip the taliban by buying them soviet made weapons (mostly AK47s). That's not the same as making nuclear weapons available to a radical islamic state.

Wheres US blame here?. Collapsing the Soviet Union?. In my book that was a good thing. I think most of eastern europe would agree......

I think the Aghanis would agree that having their own government beats soviet domination.

We may not have to do anything. It seems like the russians themselves are having grave concerns about the Iranians. It's becoming obvious, even to them, that the Iranians aren't much interested in a peaceful nuclear power generating capacity.

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Old 14th June 2006, 08:19   #64
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If you believe Taliban purely and solely used Chinese and Pakistani made AK47s, sponsored by US, for that matter you are gravely mistaken. Landmines made in USA and Pakistan training camps (set up by USA and UK) and USA made rocket propelled grenades killed couple of my friends there.

I fail to see the difference between Soviet and USA invasion except for one thing. Russia never sent anyone to train Taliban to fight USA forces. You can go on how it is a people's own choice to elect the government, but apparently it is not the case for USA to support if we look at Palestine.
Call me cynical, but USA's concern is not to install the democracy, or else they would have done it 10 times over in Zimbabwe or North Korea for instance.

Lastly, USA didn't have an iota to do with the USSR collapse, it collapsed all by itself, but that should be left for some other discussions.
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Old 14th June 2006, 16:15   #65
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hmm, did the Afghan government harbor terrorists that destoryed the Kremlin or something in the USSR there by justifying the Soviet invasion?
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Old 14th June 2006, 16:56   #66
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hmm, did the Afghan government harbor terrorists that destoryed the Kremlin or something in the USSR there by justifying the Soviet invasion?
The answer to you question is, ofcourse no.
To explain a little:
Did Cuba's choice of socialism justify asassination attempts on Fidel Castro? From USA's point of view it surely did. During the cold war, a USSR friendly country just next door to USA posed a threat.
Equally, existence of USA friendly country at the USSR border justified the invasion from Soviet Union's point of view.

So, did USSR require a major terror attack to justify military action? Absolutely not. As I see it now, Iraq didn't neither harbor terrorists nor had WMD and was invaded nevertheless.
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Old 14th June 2006, 17:49   #67
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are we forgetting Abu Nidal? Are we forgetting payments to the families of Palestinian Suicide bombers? yes we are.

Anyway you said Afghanistan, so I replied to Afghanistan, not Iraq.
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Old 14th June 2006, 19:24   #68
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You asked if the Afghanistan invasion was justified, and it was as justified as USA's Iraq invasion.

I'm afraid I do not quite understand: "are we forgetting Abu Nidal? Are we forgetting payments to the families of Palestinian Suicide bombers? yes we are." comment.

Are you implying that the goal of Iraq campaign was to eliminate Abu Nidal - the man who wasn't even there when the campaign began?

And if payments to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers are crime, then what is paying respects to "fallen" Waffen SS veterans in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia? Surely we are forgetting that? Yes we are!
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Old 14th June 2006, 20:35   #69
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does paying respect to fallen SS veterans encourage terrorist attacks against innocent civilians? I doubt it.

Iraq harbored Abu Nidal and had many other terrorist contacts. Saddam actively supported suicide terrorist attacks against innocent Israeli civilians.

there is no comparison of that to honoring fighters of a war from 50 years ago.

Anyway, who cares about what was justified or not. That doesn't change the state of current affairs. We should be thinking about how to handle existing situations rather than arguing about who is/was the bigger asshole.
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Old 14th June 2006, 21:17   #70
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That is a fair point.
My claim was not to prove wether USA is an asshole or not. As I said, USSR was in the same position once upon a time.

What is not cricket, is when comments such as "Hold Russians accountable" start popping up.
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Old 14th June 2006, 21:25   #71
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Call me cynical, but USA's concern is not to install the democracy
You are correct. This is not our primary concern, but it is the way we want to do business if possible. Under Soviet rule, there would be no policy that even talked about democracy. And we resisted the Soviet despotate that wanted to enslave afghanistan.... wrong?....

Our goal is moderate governments. Instead, we have Iranians trying to build nuclear weapons and paying suicide bombers to kill us and the Israelis.

Innocent people get killed in wars. But being innocent and getting killed is certainly not any different than what happens in these countries on a normal day anyway.

Then how "innocent" is innocent?. The Palestinians proved how "innocent" they were by electing a terrorist government.

The Iraqis proved how "innocent" they were by keeping Sadam in power. The Iranians are proving how "innocent" they are by recruiting suicide bombers and trying to gain a nuclear weapon capacity.

So if you're "innocent" and get blasted..... tough ....

Mostly in Iraq and Afghanistan now, it's not us killing innocent people, it's the "innocent" people killing each other......
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Old 14th June 2006, 21:35   #72
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Originally posted by Herr Garman
What is not cricket, is when comments such as "Hold Russians accountable" start popping up.
Well if Russians are supplying crazies with nuclear fuel maybe someone should say something.
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Old 14th June 2006, 21:38   #73
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Originally posted by Mattress
Well if Russians are supplying crazies with nuclear fuel maybe someone should say something.
Ya think? .
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Old 14th June 2006, 22:26   #74
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The Iraqis proved how "innocent" they were by keeping Sadam in power.
I don't think Iraqis had much choice in this matter...

Everytime that I think you might be saying something rational, you go and fuck it up, somehow.


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Old 14th June 2006, 22:49   #75
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There we go again. Who supplied Iraq with the biological weapon manufacturing technology and samples? Russia? Don't think so. Even "Pro-USA" UK had documentary series on how and what USA provided for Iraq.

Shall we continue?

Russia does not supply Iran with anything. The offer was to enrich uranium for Iran, so that no facilities with dubious aim would be built. It would be beneficial for USA, but apparently, this is not what USA is after.
So what is USA after?

At the moment, there is not much oil coming out of Iraq, prices are up, Japan for instance, imports 10% of it's oil from Iran, and Japan is not the only country. Any military action against Iran smells like another oil grabbing attempt to me.

Another thing, You must be familiar with Paul Wulfowitz (not sure I spell his name right). At the Asian Security summit, while answering the question why USA prioritises dealing with Iraq over North Korea, he said the following (again, it was said loud and clear): "Simple. The difference between North Korea and Iraq is economical. We didn't have a choice. Iraq is literally drowning in oil." He also said: "We are not as interested in control over WMD as we are interested in controlling the oil".

Clear enough?

Lastly:

Let's consider something else. Let's imagine for a moment that you are Russian government. Have a look at this:

1. American press publish reports on how a simple USA nuclear strike would turn Russia into a wasteland (comparison of American and Russian nuclear arsenals).
Press has always been a powerful messaging medium for any government. According to CIA, 80% of intelligence can be extracted from the press.
2. Dick Chaney threatens Russia in clear text at a Vilnius conference (very bad diplomatic move). There was an attempt to tone it down even by the White House, that’s how bad it was.
3. NATO openly disregards ongoing Russian Black Sea naval base lease and plans to perform military exercise in the area.
4. Ukraine and Georgia are ready to join NATO.
5. NATO bases opening in Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, Croatia, etc. in order to isolate Russia and pressure China.
6. Iran's primary clash is with USA. Iranian press doesn't calculate possible strikes against Russia, doesn't it?
7. USA’s nuclear potential is (obviously) much larger than Iran's.

What conclusions would you draw? If it would be me, I would long ago had orders of total mobilisation and would be switching all production to military.

Regards

Last edited by Herr Garman; 14th June 2006 at 23:15.
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Old 14th June 2006, 23:37   #76
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You are correct. This is not our primary concern, but it is the way we want to do business if possible. Under Soviet rule, there would be no policy that even talked about democracy. And we resisted the Soviet despotate that wanted to enslave afghanistan.... wrong?....
Absolutely, because USA is now doing exactly the same thing. For your information, USA democracy model is not much better than communist party rule in USSR (Exctept Stalin's rule!).

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Our goal is moderate governments. Instead, we have Iranians trying to build nuclear weapons and paying suicide bombers to kill us and the Israelis.
Wrong. You have no business with other countries at all. All countries has own development curves and traditions. Would you like if Saudi Arabia decided to moderate your government? Iraq crossed the line by invading Kuwait. The conflict could have been resolved back then, but apparently something held USA back. Needed "innocent" (further down) people's deaths?

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Innocent people get killed in wars. But being innocent and getting killed is certainly not any different than what happens in these countries on a normal day anyway.
Indeed. People die on a normal day. Does a wedding party get blown up by a "surgical strike" on a normal day?
Blatantly put, who are you to decide who will live and who will die? Additionally, according to you no innocent people were present in neither twin towers nor planes on 9/11?

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Then how "innocent" is innocent?. The Palestinians proved how "innocent" they were by electing a terrorist government..
USA insisted on a democratic election to be held. Apparently, democracy is a term defined by the interests of USA. Am I correct?

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The Iraqis proved how "innocent" they were by keeping Sadam in power. The Iranians are proving how "innocent" they are by recruiting suicide bombers and trying to gain a nuclear weapon capacity.
So, then we can dismiss USA claims that Saddam tortured and slaughtered thousands of his own, because apparently they had a choice not to be led by him? Could you elaborate on that?

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So if you're "innocent" and get blasted..... tough ....
Would you say the same if your 3 yo daughter was shredded to bits by a mortar shell? Or your mother perforated by stray bullets? Or maybe your little son would try to crawl away from a blasted building without his legs and his chin dangling on a piece of skin?

Would you say "Tough shit!" then?
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Old 15th June 2006, 08:52   #77
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Originally posted by Herr Garman
Absolutely, because USA is now doing exactly the same thing. For your information, USA democracy model is not much better than communist party rule in USSR (Exctept Stalin's rule!).
Bla, Bla. Why don't you ask an east german or the polish about that.


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Originally posted by Herr Garman
Wrong. You have no business with other countries at all.
You sound like you might have preferred Hitler or Stalin to rule the planet. I guess we didn't have any business stopping them. If you ask me, we screwed up when we didn't finish the job and push Stalin out of europe and back to Moscow.

And about babies getting blasted.... If my government sponsored terrorist bombings, was aggressive toward peaceful nations and supported terrorism, I wouldn't be too appalled that the cruise missile hit the babies room. I'd expect it.

And the people in the trade center?. They were guilty of being americans. I don't find much guilt in that, but it seems you do.
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Old 15th June 2006, 09:43   #78
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And the people in the trade center?. They were guilty of being americans. I don't find much guilt in that, but it seems you do.
Bad analogy.

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Old 15th June 2006, 18:40   #79
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Originally posted by rockouthippie

Bla, Bla. Why don't you ask an east german or the polish about that.

You sound like you might have preferred Hitler or Stalin to rule the planet. I guess we didn't have any business stopping them. If you ask me, we screwed up when we didn't finish the job and push Stalin out of europe and back to Moscow.

And about babies getting blasted.... If my government sponsored terrorist bombings, was aggressive toward peaceful nations and supported terrorism, I wouldn't be too appalled that the cruise missile hit the babies room. I'd expect it.

And the people in the trade center?. They were guilty of being americans. I don't find much guilt in that, but it seems you do.
"Bla, Bla" neither proves your point nor makes it any stronger. For your information in this very moment Ukrainians are blockading the building were US Army Personnel is located, chanting "Yankee go home!"
All Polish I know are saying (not my words, just a messenger!): "Americans are wankers! We should stick with Russia!", Czechs hate Americans also. Even Albanians, who you "supposedly" helped during Balkan conflict by bombing civil targets in Serbia dislike USA severely! Those are just few examples. Perhaps you believe that China is very fond of USA?

I was in states in 1997 for 3 months. I met a lot of nice people, my ex-girlfriend is American. I wouldn't call Americans wankers. But when more and more people do, maybe it's time to realise that something is wrong? Maybe USA (we are talking politics here) isn't always right?

Could you provide any logical answer to that? Or is your next comment going to be "Bla, Bla, Bla? We are right that's why world is against us. Screw you, we will bomb you all to kibbles!" ???

Civilians dying in Iraq are guilty as much as the people who died in WTC and in London. If you think it's a crime to be Iraqi, it is just fair to assume that it is a crime to be American. Just as it is a crime to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Actually, for your information many Japanese, Russian, Greek (or Grecians as G.W. Bush puts it), Irish, etc. suffered. So, not only Americans died.

And if you look at your government, they don't seem too appalled by killed Iraqis. Instead they cover it up as a "surgical precision military operation". At this moment they still claim that the execution of women and children (I believe that was a wedding party) was a military operation! Reminds me of the sketch in Monty Python's "Holy Grail" where sir Lancelot breaks in to the castle and slaughters wedding guests.

I don't want G.W. Bush to rule the planet, because quite frankly he is in not far from Hitler or Stalin. And the fact that I oppose to Bush’s politic doesn't make me Hitler or Stalin supporter. To make such a conclusion in not only narrow minded but very ignorant and childish.
You previously said that nobody proved that Bush done a single illegal thing. Neither did anyone proove that Stalin did an illegal thing. Does it make Stalin innocent? Don't think so! So be fair now.

As I wrote earlier, U.S. Deputy Defence Secretary admitted that Iraqi campaign was about oil. To make matters worse in the interview to Vanity Fair he said the following: "For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on"

Could you extend the courtesy and explain why you still bending over backwards trying to bullshit everyone here that it was all about stopping terrorism and finding WMD?

Kind Regards
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Old 15th June 2006, 20:01   #80
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Bla Bla is my way of saying you are babbling.

How can you compare George Bush to Hitler or Stalin?. First, neither Bush, nor the GOP can rule this country, much less the planet. Have I seen GB round up a million dissidents and execute them like Stalin?. I don't seem to find any jewish death camps in the corn fields around here, like Hitler. The voting is still down at the school and there are no soldiers with machine guns to tell me how to vote. London isn't bombed. 60 million people aren't dead.

Bush is off to the old presidents farm in a couple of years. If you are looking for the democrats to somehow run away from Iraq and Afghanistan, it won't ever happen..... even if they could regain control of the government.... which I doubt.

Remember, both parties thought invading Iraq was a good idea. Anyone with an ounce of sense knew at the time that the WMD threat was bogus.

Oil is enough. Getting a stable government that isn't involved in terrorism that will control 20% of the worlds oil reserve is worth some risk.

If you look at GBs approval ratings, note that he's unpopular for 2 reasons. Conservatives don't think he's conservative enough. Liberals don't think he's liberal enough.

If you think that democrat control of our government would somehow remove our troops from foreign soil. Think again. If Al Gore had become president, I think we'd still be in Iraq.

Most of our foreign military actions are UN mandated. The only reason Iraq wasn't is because Sadam bribed the french, russians and chinese. The best UN security council money can buy.

Here's the breakdown of the 15% non-american troops in Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multina..._force_in_Iraq

Seems like most of the nations, except the bribed ones, thought this was a good idea.
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