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Old 6th June 2006, 06:09   #81
rockouthippie
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I never heard the Israelis say that they wanted to cast out the Arabs or commit genocide. I have heard such statements from Palestinians.

One thing just about everyone knows is that Pat Robertson is an idiot. I don't think you'd find him to be respected in any legitimate church.

He might take some of what christians believe and then add stupidity, but that's about it.
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Old 6th June 2006, 11:43   #82
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Originally posted by rockouthippie
I never heard the Israelis say that they wanted to cast out the Arabs or commit genocide. I have heard such statements from Palestinians.
I have, on televised interviews this appears to be as common a view with the Israelis as the converse is with the Palestinians. It's possible that TV in the US shows a different balance of these things though (I'm aware there's more support for Israel in general over there).

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Old 6th June 2006, 19:23   #83
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Karma-Geddon

At least we have agreement on Pat Robertson, and i think we could all agree that in general the US is biased toward Israel, and that is one of the main reasons the US has been subjected to terrorist attack.

It is peculiar and interesting that Israel is one little Jewish nation in the midst of a vast Arab-Muslim area stretching from Africa to south Asia. Most Arabs must view Israel as a thorn, or as a malignant cyst.

I was wondering if we could apply that old Bible story about King Solomon and the baby to this situation. There was a dispute between 2 women about who was the true mother of a certain baby, and Solomon ordered the baby to be cut in half, whereupon one woman cried out that she was not the true mother and Solomon awarded the baby to her, knowing that the true mother would do anything to save the baby.

It doesn't seem likely, but if either side were to back off and give the land to the other, perhaps God would grant the land to the side that wanted to save the land rather than see it destroyed.

Bible prophecies seem to predict that it is greed and not understanding that will prevail, leading to a massive attack of Israel and God stepping up to defend that little nation. Is that right?

The Bible states that it was God Himself who, due to the sins of the Jews, removed His protection from them, allowing them to be conquered and scattered throughout the world to endure great suffering. Only after the Nazi Holocaust, had they burned enough of their bad karma to be able to be reinstated as a nation in their ancient homeland. After allowing them to suffer to that degree for thousands of years, God is supposed to step up and defend them now. Is that correct?

Since the Israelis are so good at turning desert into paradise, one option to create Middle East peace would be for America to absorb all Israelis and have them turn one of the American deserts into a paradise which could be a nation within a nation called Israel. Wouldn't that be a win-win-win situation? Can everyone here rally around that idea and promote it to the point that it could happen?

Is is appropriate to bring this up today, 6-6-06, since the #666 is associated with the Biblical Beast. Perhaps The Beast is nothing more than the evil spirit of greed which could be killed via kindness and generosity.
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Old 6th June 2006, 19:45   #84
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The reason that Israel is in the middle east is that no one wanted 6 million jews that were still alive after WWII.

The reason the Arabs object to the presence of Israel is that they need someone to be a scapegoat for a rallying cry for radical islamic fundamentalism.

Hitler made the jews a scapegoat in WWII as a rallying cry for national socialism.

To gain power for radicalism, you have to have a fall guy. We have examples here, like the KKK, who used, catholics, jews, blacks and anyone that wasn't "aryan" trailer trash as the reason for all the worlds ills.

To some extent, we still see racial and ethnic divisions, that have little basis in fact.

But the David Dukes and Louis Ferrikams make their "bones" by keeping tensions alive that are greatly exaggerated. You could toss Pat Robertson in this category too.

To inspire radicalism, you need an enemy. That's even if you have to invent one.

Heres a sci fi morality radio play from the 1950s that examines this issue in a somewhat entertaining way:

http://retrovision*****X_Minus_One-56...tello_Hero.mp3

What liberals should examine is whether the hatred for George Bush is such an unreasoned attitude. I am not a great fan of his either, but neither do I think he deserves to be called a nazi. His presidency has a war that everyone voted for, a catastrophe in the southwest that revealed problems in all levels and parties of our government and a tax break for rich people.

Big deal. Not a nazi. That's despite Michael Moore and Fahrenheit 451, which is a complete lie. Do your own research and then see if you can find one truthful element in this movie. Made Moore rich though.

Your concern about right wing propaganda may be warranted. But you also need to look for the facts in listening to left wing posturing.

Each side has it's own agenda and the goal of neither is social justice.

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Old 7th June 2006, 19:48   #85
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If 10 to 20 million illegal Mexican immigrants can make their way in to the US, why would 5 million legal immigrants from Israel to secure world peace be a big deal? The point is probably moot though when we consider that there is no way Israel would go for that. Rather than follow the wisdom of the Solomon-and-Baby analogy that has been presented, they would probably rather let the baby be cut in half and die.

It's true that scapegoats do help radicals gain power, but Israel is obviously more than a scapegoat for the Arabs. Since the days that Sarah cast out Hagar and Ishmael, the Jews treat them as illegitimate, and many Christians do so, too. Ishmael was a son of Abraham, just as Isaac was. People need to take responsibility for ALL their children, whether or not they are born via wedlock. It was Sarah who directed her Egyptian slave Hagar to produce Ishmael with Abraham. Abraham himself felt bad about casting out his own son, but he went along with Sarah reluctantly. His conscience revealed it was wrong.

Yesterday I heard a new angle on why Bush has been seemingly compassionate to the illegal Mexicans, and it involves Mexican oil. How could we help but feel that that could very well be a factor? Being nice to the greasers coming in from below could be greasing the hand of Mexican leaders and oil company owners to make their grease more available to US investment and use.

Yesterday i also noticed Bobby Kennedy Jr. on a news show presenting evidence that there was vote manipulation in Ohio, the state that pushed Bush over the top in the 2004 election. Many of us have wondered about Ohio since that election because Ohio is a northern state that should have voted along with the other blue northern states. The difference there was a mere 140,000 votes or so, so it wouldn't have taken that much manipulation to flip things around.

Don't be afraid to speak up, people. President Truman was quoted as saying that if even a single American is afraid of speaking up, all Americans are in peril.
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Old 7th June 2006, 21:48   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by anandamide
If 10 to 20 million illegal Mexican immigrants can make their way in to the US, why would 5 million legal immigrants from Israel to secure world peace be a big deal?
Because it's not the issue. The Israelis over the past 20 years have made extreme concessions in their struggle for peace. This was met with increased terrorism, not peace.

If the radicals were not "rabble rousing" by blaming the Israelis, they'd find another scapegoat..... us for example.


Quote:
Originally posted by anandamide
It's true that scapegoats do help radicals gain power, but Israel is obviously more than a scapegoat for the Arabs.
I doubt it. Israelis don't affect the daily lives of most arabs.

Quote:
Originally posted by anandamide
Yesterday I heard a new angle on why Bush has been seemingly compassionate to the illegal Mexicans, and it involves Mexican oil.
Yeah, and it goes along with the same fantasy conspiracy nonsense that every liberal wants to spin as an "angle".

The president has a moderate idea about how to deal with the illegals. Have you ever thought that maybe this is just good thinking?.

Did we need some riots?.

Quote:
Originally posted by anandamide
Yesterday i also noticed Bobby Kennedy Jr. on a news show presenting evidence that there was vote manipulation in Ohio, the state that pushed Bush over the top in the 2004 election.
Election tampering?. Like the democrats handing out voter registration cards to illegal aliens?.

If any party could come up with a candidate that could get a mandate, our elections wouldn't get won by a coin toss. George Bush is the president. Get over it. Even Al Gore did.

If candidates got a mandate, then election tampering wouldn't be an issue. You can't tamper enough to beat a candidate that could gain even a few points of margin.

Democrats lost the government during the Clinton administration. Did it wise them up or return them to reason?. Why did they lose?. Because they are a bunch of losers..... Now they think screaming "I hate Bush" and espousing fantasies about government conspiracies will help. Why are democrats unemployed?. Because half of us like that pea packer George Bush better than them. Fix it and get my vote back.

I'm not as conservative as you might think. I am not in the cheering section for George Bush, but give me a better choice.

I don't want republicans, I want more rational democrats.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 7th June 2006 at 22:09.
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Old 8th June 2006, 17:54   #87
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People should stop putting down liberals, because God is a liberal, not a conservative in a business suit. Democrats and liberals want to take care of the poor and get rid of guns, and God shines on them for that. Grotesque right-wing hack Ann Coulter has released a book referring to liberals as "Godless" when the opposite is true and she is just another hijacker of Christianity. She has the audacity to attack 9-11 widows and call them witches when it couldn't be more clear that she is the witch. It's sickening to see her face on tv and hear her irritating voice. She needs psychiatric help.

It's true that Democrats need to get their act more together though, because it's pitiful that they couldn't grab that seat vacated by Republican Cunningham who is now in jail for taking 2 million in bribes. Maybe bribery is no big deal to a heavily republican district that believes that money should buy everything.

It's good to see that Zarqawi was finally exterminated, something that took far too long to accomplish. He was definitely a major creep when you consider all his beheadings like the one of American Nick Berg. It's good to celebrate this but don't forget that it's the war with Iraq which brought his band of terrorists into that country in the first place.

The argument that it's better for Americans to be dying there than here is quite faulty, because terrorists are happy to be killing Americans anywhere, and it's actually more convenient for them to kill Americans there because they don't have to travel all the way over here to do their killing.

Imagine the impact if the Canadian prime minister had been beheaded, like those terrorists who were caught in Canada wanted to do. It will be interesting to see how the Zarqawi killing will affect the number of murders in Iraq. I saw a stat that there were 1400 murders in Bhagdad in May, more than we'd see in 3 years in any major US city.

The Taliban is making a comeback in Afghanistan, so it's sure not "mission accomplished".
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Old 8th June 2006, 18:38   #88
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if God was a liberal we wouldn't be allowed to not believe in him. :P

God knows best, he tells us what to do, but he lets us make our own decisions.

Liberals think they know best, they pass laws forcing everyone to make the 'right' decision.

Conservatives know they don't know what's best, they let people make their own decisions, even if it's the wrong decision.


or were we talking about republicans and democrats? because that's a whole different bag of soup.
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Old 9th June 2006, 21:37   #89
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Isn't it conservatives who want to see a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage? That is letting people decide for themselves?

The Ishmael issue gets more disturbing the more one looks into it. In the story where Abraham is asked by God to sacrifice his son, the son is referred to as Abraham's only son (Genesis 22:2,12,16), who is named as Isaac (Genesis 22:2), but the only time Abraham had a single son was during the period before Isaac's birth, when Ishmael was his only son. It seems quite possible that Jewish scribes replaced the name Ishmael with Isaac. It doesn't seem possible that God would not recognize Ishmael as a legitimate son. Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to be a wife to him (Genesis 16:3), and even if the word "wife" simply meant a sexual partner to create a son, the custom was that that son would legally belong to Abraham and Sarah, and be a legal heir to them.

The Bible shows God making a covenant with Abraham when Abraham was 99 (Genesis 17), with God promising the land of Canaan to him and his descendants. The sign of the covenant was circumcision. Abraham was circumcized the same day as his son Ishmael, before Isaac was even born a year later. If the painful circumcision of a 99 year old and his 13 year old son on the same day doesn't establish an eternal bond, i don't know what does. The point is that Ishmael and his Arab descendants have as much a right to Canaan as do Isaac and his Jewish descendants. It seems possible that scribes were actually willing to tamper with scriptures to change that.
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Old 10th June 2006, 02:20   #90
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Isaac was the son of the promise; Ishmael was the son of impatience because Abraham did not wait for God's time.

The land belongs to the children of Israel, not the children of Ishmael.

And if Israel has to give it back to the Arabs, according to you, than America should be given back to the Indians, or maybe the Indians should just go back where they came from, or good grief, who drew up all these maps.

Maybe everybody should just keep what they have now, and promise not to conquer any more in the future.

Nah, that won't work either, there will always be some conquering something.

Well, we have to begin somewhere; England has to give Scotland back to the Scots, yes, that is it.

Were the Scots there first? I don't know.

Everybody, go home.

THE END
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Old 10th June 2006, 08:33   #91
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Originally posted by Wildrose-Wally
Well, we have to begin somewhere; England has to give Scotland back to the Scots, yes, that is it.
England didn't take Scotland from the Scots. I realise that's beyond your point, though.

I find the most interesting comparison is with the Troubles in Northern Ireland - the situation is fairly different, but I think a lot of the justifications and hatred bear a good similarity.

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Old 10th June 2006, 18:48   #92
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Isn't it conservatives who want to see a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage? That is letting people decide for themselves?
No one is talking about interfering with the right of people to be gay. What we are talking about is elevating that to a prominent social status by calling it marriage.

It isn't the conservatives dancing around in a leather thong with a testicle hanging out waving signs and whining.

Go, be gay, live in peace and shut up. If you find a real civil rights issue, like voting rights, violence toward gays, employment, voting rights, then look me up. I'll be on the gay side. BUT these issues are mainly settled.

Someone mentioned the native americans. A very good friend of mine is a honcho for the American Indian Movement (AIM).

An advocate for the rights of native americans, he also affords a half million dollar house and a new $50,000 truck every year. I was getting a little irritated with him one day, and asked him if he was going to trade in his truck and house and go back and hunt buffalo with a spear?. I'm sure I'd like my cut of the ****** money, free college, free medical care and all the benefits that he gets. And I could run around in a new truck and complain about my fate for a living.

We still go hunting, but now I don't have to look at a new Dodge and listen to the "plight" of poor native americans.

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Old 10th June 2006, 20:20   #93
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Abraham and his wife Sarah were both more than patient because Abraham was 86 and Sarah 76 at the time that Sarah pushed Hagar onto him to produce Ishmael. That could hardly be reasonably seen as impatient. If anything, it was a lacking of extraordinary faith, but certainly not impatience.

Personally i find homosexual behavior as repulsive as the conservatives do, but the push for a marriage ammendment is politically driven, not morally. The Republicans know that ammendment does not have enough support, and are simply trying to stay in power by throwing a bone to their conservative base before this year's elections. As for marriage, maybe all marriage should be illegal. It only puts money in the pockets of lawyers when divorce time comes around.
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Old 10th June 2006, 22:40   #94
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The Republicans know that ammendment does not have enough support, and are simply trying to stay in power by throwing a bone to their conservative base before this year's elections.
It wasn't just throwing a bone to the conservative base. This is an issue that the american people have voted on. We have always said no. We said no, and the republicans are listening. The democrats, of course, know whats better for us.
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Old 11th June 2006, 18:07   #95
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Many states have voted the way the conservatives would have wanted on the issue, so why do they feel the need for a federal law? Wasn't it said that conservatives want to let people decide for themselves? If the majority in some states are willing to allow alternative types of marriages, why not let that be? I think that if the majority of people in Utah want to allow polygamy, the feds shouldn't mess with that. Some states have legalized medical marijuana, but it's still illegal on a federal level, so federal agents could arrest people using marijuana for medical purposes. That doesn't seem right at all. It's good for states to have different laws so that people could move to states that are in line with their beliefs. The conservatives and Republicans are for less government interference only in areas that suit them.
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Old 11th June 2006, 20:00   #96
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Many states have voted the way the conservatives would have wanted on the issue, so why do they feel the need for a federal law?
Because, as in Oregon, the gay lobby is subjecting the courts to endless lawsuits. When they find liberal judges, then the gays get their way, only to be thwarted by state constitutional amendments.

Here a Portland city commissioner made gay marriage legal for two days, just because she was a liberal idiot. It took about 2 days and a bunch of screaming to undo this stunt.

Here in Oregon, this was added to the state constitution. You'd think that would be an end to the matter, but now this becomes a matter for federal courts. The latest challenges are that Oregons constitution saying that marriage is between a man and a woman is federally unconstitutional.

We said no. The margins were big enough in these elections to say that we meant no. We said no..... now government should make it so.

I am in a very, very "Blue State". Even with that, the answer is no. This is liberal, pot head utopia and still "Nope". It was so "No" that it's in the Oregon constitution.

It's the same in many other states. Now these laws become the problem of the feds.......at the peril of state constitutions.....

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Old 12th June 2006, 18:17   #97
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Since states have had no problems passing laws on the marriage matter, it seems to be a waste of time for federal lawmakers to waste their time on it since progress on it is much harder in the federal arena. Because of that, Congress should be focusing on things like getting a Border Security Act passed, and a resolution to get US troops out of Iraq. If you want to respect the opinion of the majority on the marriage issue, then respect the opinion of the majority on the war where most Americans say it was a mistake and want out of it.

To continue on Ishmael, he was not the "child of impatience", as was stated, but the child of neglect, the child of abandonement, the rejected child. Whether of not he was born out of wedlock, he was a legitimate child. Many Jews and Christians see the Arab Muslims as not only illegitimate but as cursed, perverted and evil. What is cursed, perverted and evil is that very perspective and their is a karmic price to pay for it. Do what you can to correct that.

My personal view is that Judaism-Islam-Christianity is in a sense a 3-headed monster responsible for much of the world's problems. Hinduism seems to be a superior religion since it incorporates vegetarianism and karma. The 3-headed monster keeps pushing false concepts like eternal torment, and leads people to condemn each other for not thinking as they do.

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Old 12th June 2006, 19:45   #98
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If you want to respect the opinion of the majority on the marriage issue, then respect the opinion of the majority on the war where most Americans say it was a mistake and want out of it.
Everyone wants out of a war. That doesn't mean they want to run away. It's just stupid to think that we could walk away from this without making more problems than we solve.

Iraq now has a government. The government intends to be in control of it's own assets in 17 months. They'll call us out of a base for training and a "hail mary".

That seems a reasonable timeframe.

The majority on the war?. You mean the people that voted for George Bush and against the democrats?. You'll notice, the republicans control the government.

You'll see what the majority is when another republican is elected president. Run away like a beaten dog won't make a good campaign slogan for the democrats.

Everyone wants to end the war, but I think "the majority" also wants to end it by winning.

Quote:

My personal view is that Judaism-Islam-Christianity is in a sense a 3-headed monster responsible for much of the world's problems.
What tennet of Judao-Christianity is responsible for any problems?. That you don't steal, lie or murder?. Buddhism has merit as well, but it doesn't have a morality that is much different than christian.

Where are these terrible christians that raise fatherless gangster kids that will kill you?.

Christians do have something to do with that...... they form charities to feed them.....

If everyone followed christian dogma, there would be no problems. The ideas of generousity, love of your family, love of your neighbor and decency are wrong?.

I don't make a very good christian some days. I have noticed that it isn't church going young people stealing everything I haven't nailed down or gang tagging my house.

I can be pretty sure that my baptist neighbor won't be running a meth lab. We could contrast that with a former neighbor, a vegan, vegetarian, bisexual heroin dealer. Dude had his frequency permanently set to "the best of Art Bell".

If you are to find a "new age" religion that will let you do anything you want, Buddhism wouldn't be it. But you could drown unwanted infant daughters

Go chew some celery......

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Old 13th June 2006, 18:29   #99
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Celery has wonderful cleansing properties. People would do well to eat alot more of it.

Society would certainly benefit if people followed the teachings of Christ closely, but in practice you have the very ministers of Christian churches molesting young boys. What kind of an example is that?

Animal sacrifice was a barbaric rite practiced in Judaism and kept to this day by THEIR BROTHER RELIGION Islam. Most Christians are sinful meat eaters, except for the 7th Day Adventist sect, God bless them. The Democratic party had a vegan run for president in 2004, Kucinich, God bless him.

Most who voted for Bush in 2004 now feel duped concerning the war. The Republicans are now even talking about withdrawing troops but that is for political reasons. They know the public is very much against the war now, and they want to stay in power. If it wasn't for the fact that they could be voted out, they would continue the war endlessly for all they care. I say again, they are for the most part military-industrial complex people.

You sure it's not the conservatives who are desperate at this time? The best they can do is attack broken-hearted 9-11 widows like Ann Coulter is doing? Those widows have criticized Bush because they know that you don't win the war on terrorism with brute force alone. You look at the root causes of terrorism and you address that. You don't start a war with those not responsible for attacking the US, and cause terrorism to spread because of that, while leaving the borders of the homeland exposed. It is absolute idiocy.
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Old 13th June 2006, 20:04   #100
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Society would certainly benefit if people followed the teachings of Christ closely, but in practice you have the very ministers of Christian churches molesting young boys. What kind of an example is that?
"Society", "benefit", and "the teachings of Christ" are all subjective in their application, there. Regardless of examples, the fact is that prescribing a way of life is no way to run a free society, regardless of how good your intentions are. Lots of dictators believed their way was best just as strongly.

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Old 14th June 2006, 19:17   #101
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One brutal dictator, the Shah of iran was a US ally before the Iranian revolution toppled and deposed him to install an old school Islamic Republic there. Because of that, it is unrealistic to expect a puppet regime of the US to remain next door in Iraq when Iraq is mostly Shiite Muslim like Iran is.

The killing of Zarqawi has not stopped the stream of blood there at all. The degree of killings may have even increased as a retaliation. The ultra-secret manner in which Bush just visited Iraq shows how scary and volatile the situation is there. If things were going well, the Iraqi leader would have been given more than 5 minutes notice of Bush's arrival. That truly says it all. Let's cut the crap about how much progress has been made. It couldn't be more fearful there.

To the writer promoting retrovision tv, i will tune in in a heartbeat if you can stream that old "Saturday Night Live" bit depicting Dan Quayle becoming president due to the death of the first president Bush. White House officials were so horrified at the thought of Quayle becoming president that one of them suggested that maybe they could somehow keep the brain of Bush alive somehow. It's one of the best pieces of sketch comedy ever done.

Remember when Dick Cheney went quail hunting and accidentally shot his friend in the face? A right-wing conservative street preacher i know viewed that event as a sign that Dan Quayle was destined to become president. I'm not kidding. Alot of these right-wing extremists are crazier than you think. The reasonable view of course would be to see that event as symbolic of what Cheney and the right-wingers are about, guns, meat-eating, wreckless behavior. Cholesterol from meat is one reason Cheney has had so many heart attacks. His bad aim is reflective of how the administration aimed for Al Qaeda but is hitting Iraq instead.

It is not the tree-hugging vegetarians who are the loonies. One medical doctor i was treated by told me that he would be out of business if all his patients were vegetarians. Wake up, folks. Get off the Cheney diet and thrive. The cowboy spirit is not the best the US has to offer.

Another great clip for retrovision tv would be a scene from the original "Star Trek" series where Spok was cast back in time to a primitive state and found himself eating meat, something out of character for him. When he left that dimension, he was disgusted with himself for having eaten flesh. I'd love to view that clip.
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Old 14th June 2006, 20:27   #102
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You crack me up.

I love how a whack job street preacher is your representative for the whole of republicans.
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Old 15th June 2006, 19:21   #103
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That nutty street preacher does embody an outlook that most conservatives and Republicans seem to share, an idealism so unrealistic that it is practically psychotic. Believe it or not, he's also a vegan! Some right-wingers will no doubt cite his veganism as the source of his lunacy, but it can also lead us liberals to have some hope for right-wingers.

For those who have the usual knee-jerk bias toward Israel that most Americans do, consider this: According to the Bible, the Jews are the children of incest, in the sense that they are all offspring of Abraham and Sarah, who shared the same father. Meanwhile, the Arabs started off in a more genetically favorable situation, since they are all offspring of Abraham and Hagar who were not directly related. The fact that Hagar was alot younger than 90 year old Sarah when giving birth could also suggest that Hagar would give birth to the healthier offspring, but you have to factor in that a 90 year old giving birth could only have been a miracle birth arranged by God. God didn't mess around though when it got to be time to bring Jesus into the world, as He had the Holy Spirit knock up a healthy, young teenager. Because of that, maybe we shouldn't be as critical of teenage pregnancy as we are. The teenage years must be the ideal time for birth since God's son came in that way. Who among us would dare call God a child molester?
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Old 22nd June 2006, 19:27   #104
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Hmm, this discussion seems to have migrated a bit, and I just want to say:

Finally heard the Neil Young song in it's entirety, and I think it's great, just what we need, an old-fashioned political anthem in that fine tradition going all the way back to Woody Guthrie, perfect for singing around campfires with your acoustic guitar.

There are times when I'm not that fond of Neil Young, but I suppose it's not really his fault that on countless "Classic Rock" stations, he's till looking for that heart of gold... and it's gettin old.

The things I like about Neil include that he's one aging rock star who's unfucked-up enough to look his age, even as he collaborates with younger kids like Pearl Jam. I love that he did the sound track for Jim Jarmusch's "Dead Man". And I love this song.
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Old 22nd June 2006, 19:35   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mattress
You crack me up.

I love how a whack job street preacher is your representative for the whole of republicans.
Personally, my view of Republicans is represented by one lying, deceitful, murdering, intellectually incurious, dogmagatic, incompetent, dull-witted President of the United States.
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Old 22nd June 2006, 19:44   #106
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Nixon?

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Old 22nd June 2006, 21:11   #107
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"Dupe Ya" makes even Tricky Dicky look innocent.

Another artist deserving major thanks is Cher. She's the living proof that those who are against the Iraq War are definitely not only not against the troops but more for them than the pro-war hawks. I heard she donated $100,000 to get marines helmets which are more protective. It's disgraceful, even criminal that any civilian would have to feel the need to do such a thing.

Labeling Democrats as "cut-and-run losers" is not going to get it done for Rove and the Republicans. It is they who are cutting and running from reality itself. I love Kerry's description that their plan amounts to "lie and die".
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Old 23rd June 2006, 01:42   #108
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Competing soundbites and slogans aside, Nixon does look pretty reasonable and responsible these days.

There may have been something noble, valuble and visionary about the real reasons for the Iraq war, but if Bush chose not to share them with us. He chose to cook up phoney WMD threats instead of leveling with us, and that's why the war has lost the support of the people, and why, after a period of throwing good lives after bad, the American people are probably going to eventually pull the plug. Lying for the sake of expediency is bad leadership. Personally I'm ambivalent about pulling out of Iraq, but hand me a petition to impeach Bush, and I will sign that motherfucker, and smile while I'm signing it.
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Old 23rd June 2006, 18:30   #109
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There seem to be a number of online petitions to impeach Bush. Use a search engine to find them, and sign away.
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Old 23rd June 2006, 20:00   #110
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because online petitions have been proven to do something other than waste bandwidth and take up harddrive space?
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Old 24th June 2006, 19:17   #111
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Regardless of whether those petitions accomplish the objective, it's still worth it to sign them just for personal satisfaction, a sort of catharsis.

This petition has 726844 signatures as of today, not too shabby at all.
This impeachment thing is bigger than a cult movement and is gaining momentum.

This one has only 18638 but i like how it speaks of the stolen election in 2000 when Dupe-Ya was not elected but selected.

This one surprisingly has only 2434 signatures. I say that because it presents a thorough case against Dupe-Ya.

This one has 3467 signatures. It goes so far as to state that even the war against Afghanistan was illegal, so i'm not sure this would be a good one to sign, but i like how it speaks of Dupe-Ya's criminal neglect of the environment and actions to install puppet regimes due to oily greed, as well as curbing domestic freedoms.

This one has 11317 signatures and focuses on how the Dupe-Ya administration failed to act on the intelligence that warned of the 9-11 disaster.

Last edited by anandamide; 24th June 2006 at 20:05.
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Old 24th June 2006, 21:02   #112
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If the current president had acted like the previous one, he'd still be in the oval office with his pants around his ankels and the troops would still all be home.

Where the terrorist now operating in Iraq would be is anybodies guess, my guess is they'd be operating in the USA, right up your ass.
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Old 25th June 2006, 19:00   #113
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Slick Willy was a Rhodes scholar and far from an airhead, so his handling of the situation would have been a more intelligent one for sure. Good sex keeps a man's brain working well. Bush must not be getting enough.

The belief that American military presence in the Middle East has prevented terrorism in the US since 2001 is false. Terrorism has continued in various areas of the world since then and since the Bush gang has not fully secured the US borders and left the homeland vulnerable in many other ways by spending hundreds of billions on foreign wars rather than on domestic security, major trouble is still quite possible. Keep in mind that those terrorists have their own timetable, a very patient one. If this wasn't the case, the terror alert level would no longer be "yellow-elevated", but it remains at that level. Ongoing foreign occupation of Arab-Muslim lands causes more people to join ranks with the extremists who resort to terrorism.

Saddam was a creep but things seemed better in Iraq when he was keeping things in order with his iron-fisted rule. The US invasion of that country has left most of the people there without clean water and electricity, lowered their oil output to pre-war levels, and sparked civil war. Now that things are that messy, perhaps the best thing to do is to split Iraq into 3 nations -- Kurdistan, Sunnistan and Shiastan. I saw Senator Joe Biden, the Delaware Democrat proposing that and it looks like it could be a wise goal for the US to pursue before pulling out of Iraq.
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Old 19th September 2006, 02:55   #114
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Islamic Fascism

The Bush administration keeps referring to the enemy as Islamic Fascism which makes this a good time to bust out a spinning swastika,

because that is certainly putting a spin on fascism for attempted political gain. In reality, when the characteristics of fascism are viewed at this page, it would not be unreasonable at all to view the US Republican leadership as acting in a fascist manner behind a facade of demonocracy. For those who refuse to say "Heil, Bush" and choose to vote Democratic this fall, pray that the electronic voting machines have not been tampered with.
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Old 19th September 2006, 21:21   #115
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Of course Islamic Fascism is complete and utter spin because the terrorists really like us they just have a funny way of showing us how much they want to be our friends!
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Old 20th September 2006, 02:57   #116
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Oh those terrorists certainly hate Americans, but is it fascist hate? The anti-Semitism is there, but as far as fascism goes, Americans don't have to look any further than their own government these days to be concerned about fascist behavior. The warm and fuzzy closeness to Israel obscures the greater truth. The very reference to the Muslim extremists as fascists is a fascist type ploy meant to play on fear and emotion.
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Old 20th September 2006, 04:28   #117
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because the terrorists wouldn't be scary if they weren't fascists but still wanted to kill us even though it meant their death as well..
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Old 20th September 2006, 05:03   #118
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A spade should be called a spade. If it's not a spade and is called one, we have to question the one doing the calling. If an enemy can't even be accurately defined and identified, how in the world can people hope to defeat it?
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Old 20th September 2006, 16:42   #119
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ahh okay but it is legitimate to describe bush as a fascist, but not terrorists.
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Old 20th September 2006, 18:42   #120
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The natural knee-jerk reaction of most Americans would be to not see Bush as a fascist and to believe his description of Muslim extremists as Islamic Fascists, but when the characteristics of fascism are actually looked at, it is alarming how fascist Bush and his gang start to appear. They claim they are for democracy, but in truth reject democracies that don't stack up as they'd like, like the Hamas regime in Palestine, while befriending monarchies like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE. They pay newspapers in Iraq to write stories that shed the US in a good light. They tap the lines of Americans without warrants. They are for torture of prisoners. They act in conjunction with the large corporations that put them in office.

Gas prices have been falling as the next election approaches. How can one help but think that that is being done deliberately to help keep them in office?
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