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Old 25th July 2006, 15:22   #41
SpitfireTN
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I have changed nothing but the stream title in both my server & my relay server in the last 5 years. Besides up-dating to 1.9.7

I have a strong home cable connection that streams to my relay which sits on a T1. My home stream has no issue being listed, the stronger stream on the T1 which is a relay will not list & gets the NAK 100 error.
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Old 25th July 2006, 15:25   #42
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I don't really know what is happening anymore. It seems pretty random, I have been running 1.9.5 fine for almost a week. On 1.9.7 it lasted around 12 hours. Then again this could be a number of factors so it's hard to tell why it works for some people and not for others.

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Old 25th July 2006, 16:33   #43
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Ok, ill try and garner some time with deppy this evening to try and crash heads and investigate further. I certainly want to get my head around where this ban list is stored and why they dont auto-expire even if we dont get to the bottom of a cause.

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Old 25th July 2006, 16:44   #44
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Thanks craig, everyone here sure does appricate this
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Old 25th July 2006, 17:19   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckerm
Thanks craig, everyone here sure does appricate this
I echo that sentiment. If you need a nak(100) IP and port to go hunt for in the YP databases, email/PM me.
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Old 25th July 2006, 17:58   #46
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I guess I throw in my 2cents.

I have 4 servers..

FreeBSD 1.9.5
Linux 1.9.7
Linux 1.9.5
Windows 1.9.7

At one point or another all have encountered the Nak 100 at diffrent times.

All have their own IP's and none are on the default ports.

I have had servers that were running for weeks, with out restart or any connection issues that simply one day were gone from the YP. Upon checking the log the NAK 100 was now showing. So I don't see how hammering could be the issue. If I was stopping and restarting the server multiple times then maybe.

Last night I phyically moved the Windows 1.9.7 server from one side of the room to another. I shut down and it sat for about an hour. I moved it reconnected everything, started back up and upon the first connection after being disconnected for just over an hour, NAK 100. First attempt to connect after being disconnected for over an hour.

I also began to get the add these IP's to your reserved list because all slots are full error, when all slots were not full and all the ips were already in the reserved list.

I changed the port and restarted, was instantly relisted.


Not sure if anything of this will help in finding a solution to this, but I figure I'd share my expierences.
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Old 25th July 2006, 18:12   #47
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A thought.

I don't know how the "Hammering" is measured, but I am wondering if perhaps, just perhaps, it could be a form of DOS attack?

Let me explain. Windows XP has all the tools to spoof IP addresses (shoot Bill Gates for that one - I met him once about 20 yrs ago - he was an asshole then and an asshole now - only difference is - now he's a rich asshole). Anyway - I digress, It all depends on exactly how hammering is measured.

It's not exactly impossible that someone is spoofing IP's and sending YP touches from an IP that isn't theirs, maybe cos they don't like the station !! Maybe because they hold a grudge against shoutcast.

To be able to find out if this is the case would require someone who knows how to do it to deliberately try, and monitor the results - with shoutcasts permission of course

Just thought I would throw that one in the ring.

All the best

Zoe



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Old 25th July 2006, 19:02   #48
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One of the streams I've already listed is still at 1.95 and was at 1.95 when it quit listing. No changes were made, etc.

Later we changed the port as was suggested, it lasted less than 24 hours before it delisted again and has never listed since.

Let me know whatever information you need and you'll have it, I'm more than willing to help do whatever I need to get my streams listed again.
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Old 25th July 2006, 20:34   #49
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We are making progress if Shoutcast is indeed admitting it is a problem on their end that they need to solve. The earlier snide "it's all your fault, don't bother us" responses were not helpful.

Changing ports, changing IP, upgrading or downgrading the DSP doesn't solve the nak error. If there is some out-of-control ban list, then please reset it so legitimate Webcasters aren't being banned.

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Old 25th July 2006, 21:09   #50
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Hold on a minute...nobody was trying to hide from anything. As I already stated, its a difficult issue to summise, primarily because it started to occur at a time when there were bigger problems with the YP.

Right now the focus is on trying to gather enough information to figure out a cause to make the fix.

The main issue is that nobody has done a particularly good job of explaining in detail what issues have been occuring. There has been more than enough jumping on the bandwagon and simple repostings of "I get NAK 100 too, fix plz!". Hence, my attempts to collate this information and garner some facts to work with.

You know what they say, if you want something doing, do it yourself.

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Old 25th July 2006, 21:53   #51
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Again, thanks for all of your effort craig...

For what it is worth... the low end home server connections getting the brunt of these problems should be ruled out. Right now, due to funds, I have been running my stream from home. 64k aac+ and, when I let it list with the yp I do not have any of these problems ... though this could be due to the fact that I rarely list the server.

However, on a completely unrelated note, both my broadcast boxes (linux and windows) will not allow me to come within 10 feet of the winamp/shoutcast websites anymore. I have flushed my dns cache, turned off all firewalls, and even shoved the computers through the dmz... no luck!!!! My laptop can still get here though....

Like I said, dunno if that is in any way related, but it seems a little fishy....
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Old 25th July 2006, 22:03   #52
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On another note one of my servers -- the linux 1.9.5 went NAK 100 last night, was still that way earlier this morning and now at 6:02pm EST it is gone and its listing fine I should point out that I in that time have not restarted the server at all. I have changed playlists a few times and it did disconnect and reconnet to the main relay server. However that was it.


I to would like to say thanks for all work put into fixing this issue and if there is anything I can do from the user end to speed the process just ask.
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Old 25th July 2006, 22:06   #53
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Well, me and deppy have both been running test streams for about an hour without incident so its a little confusing.

I'm running 1.9.7 on fbsd4. getting the usual directory tester connections (including one from one of the failing ip's you guys sent me, so that might rule that out). normal yp_add and yp_tch responses. no nak errors.

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Old 25th July 2006, 22:15   #54
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maybe the yp just likes linux boxes better

Hey, actually, might that be a thought? Most people do use windows around here....
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Old 25th July 2006, 22:18   #55
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nah, that was ruled out earlier in the thread.

also, freebsd isnt linux

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Old 25th July 2006, 22:23   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
also, freebsd isnt linux
Agreed. Technically.

Sorry, I only skimmed the parts of the thread I needed to catch up on... must have been one of those parts!

Sorry!
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Old 25th July 2006, 23:34   #57
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Har, excellent appreciate the help Craig.

I was using Linux (RedHAT, 2.4.21-40.EL) running DSP 1.9.7 on port 8000.

We had to rebuild our Linux box recently and as such firewall rules were in place and of course we received the NAK 100 because the YP couldn't see us. When we had time probably after a day or so, we fixed the firewall rules and then it started listing. Within 12 hours, we got the NAK 100 errors, I also noticed when looking through the logs, the DNAS claims there was an interuption in the DSP stream, I don't think there was.

After restarting the DNAS (not the whole box) a few times the directory tester came back and then after running again got de-listed within 12 hours. We repeated above steps, listed for about 12 hours and then never seemed to be able to get the directory tester back regardless of how many restarts.

I then moved to port 8000 on my FreeBSD box (5.4-STABLE) and had the Linux box relay the BSD. I also changed both DNAS's to run 1.9.5 instead of 1.9.7 after seeing most of the stations on the front page listed running 1.9.5. However even then because we seemed to be blocked it still did not list the Linux box in the cluster.

Our current situation is running 8000 on the BSD box and 8001 on the Linux, we are still listed and have been running for almost a week.

Hope this helps some.

Regards,
Jason

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Old 26th July 2006, 01:05   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
I certainly want to get my head around where this ban list is stored and why they dont auto-expire even if we dont get to the bottom of a cause.
That would be great! our 3 streams stop being listed well over a month ago to never return again can you please unban these 3 servers! (we made no changes)

207.210.90.107:8090
67.159.5.160:8005
208.101.33.203:9710

Thanks alot, you're the best!!
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Old 26th July 2006, 01:19   #59
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Just checked all 4 of my servers again - at 6:02pm all were fine. At 9:18pm 2 of the 4 are now NAK 100. One being the Linux 1.9.5 and the other FreeBSD 1.9.7.

The only thing I changed was the Playlist.

I broadcast using NSVGUI to a local server and the other 3 act relays. After changing the playlist with in the next hour or so those 2 started giving the NAK 100 error.
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Old 26th July 2006, 01:51   #60
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I feed each track into winamp seperatly, let it play, remove it, add a new one, etc... I wrote the software that handles all of this...

The reason I mention it, I am starting to see a trend on changing playlists. I don't know if this is the issue, but technically I would be changing my playlist every track. When my streams got delisted over a month ago, they won't come back at all.... I dunno, but thought I would mention it.
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Old 26th July 2006, 01:57   #61
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As already said in this thread - relay servers get blocked too, so playlists cant possibly have anything to do with it, unless some silly bugger has interogated the wrong input field !!!!!!!!

I cant see that being a factor - if it is, then whoever wrote the code deserves to be shot, boiled in oil and made to listen to peewee herman singing for 100 years

All the best

Zoe



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Old 26th July 2006, 02:02   #62
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Yes, mine are both relays, so you'd be correct. I'm tired... =)
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Old 26th July 2006, 03:47   #63
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My server http://medios.inf.uct.cl:8100 area a FreeBSD 6, with 1.9.7, before i install, the nak error are continous
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Old 26th July 2006, 09:11   #64
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I do not have access to remove the persistant blocks that are in place. As stated, they are not part of the usual system used to delist streams. I have mentioned that they should almost certainly be temporary but am told this would be substantial work. Deppy stated that he cleared at least one ban table last week, which may account for some nak 100 people being relisted, however it may be unrelated to those people suffering from nak 100 in the first place.

Investigation continues.

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Old 26th July 2006, 09:25   #65
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Server 38.96.148.35:8000

The Nak 100 started a few days ago. Then it was Ok for a short while and now it's Nak 100 again.


Hope this IP helps with the investigating. Cheers.
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Old 26th July 2006, 11:36   #66
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unknown-name

did you change the port base ???

i have changed port base weeks ago and have never seen the nak100 error again.

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Old 26th July 2006, 11:46   #67
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Nah, and no intention/desire to change it either.

I mean, this is obviously affecting thousands of streams, so I don't see why thousands of streams should have to change it every time it happens when the problem isn't on their end. And also it'd be too much messing around, as other things would have to be changed too (in regards to the stream I'm reffering to anyway). And also people may have the address bookmarked in their Winamp and won't bother changing it all the time.

Cheers.
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Old 26th July 2006, 15:53   #68
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It's obviously not effecting thousands of streams. If it were it would be easier to track down.

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Old 26th July 2006, 15:53   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZoeBallz
As already said in this thread - relay servers get blocked too, so playlists cant possibly have anything to do with it, unless some silly bugger has interogated the wrong input field !!!!!!!!

I cant see that being a factor - if it is, then whoever wrote the code deserves to be shot, boiled in oil and made to listen to peewee herman singing for 100 years

All the best

Zoe
I'd like to think that was true. However when you watch it occur and thats the only variable it begins to seem more likely involved if not the cause.
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Old 26th July 2006, 16:11   #70
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Well, I have tried out changing playlists deliberately before now, and it does not cause a YP touch to occur that I could see (unless someone in the know, knows better). Another point on this is that I know of at least one station that had the nak 100 problem that don't even use playlists as such (except for station promos), as they are 99.9% live talk, so even the current track doesn't change from one hour to the next.

I still think it is highly unlikely to be a factor.

All the best

Zoe



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Old 26th July 2006, 16:14   #71
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Craig the general consensus among our researchers is that its definately a replication issue effecting over half of the nodes.

Because it's a database "sync" issue it is probably causing orphaned entries which is leading to the NAK 100.

Because of this, I doubt you will find a "list" of streams effected by nak 100. It is a slow corruption of the yp database which needs a hard look at by someone with lots of clue.
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Old 26th July 2006, 16:40   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
Deppy stated that he cleared at least one ban table last week, which may account for some nak 100 people being relisted, however it may be unrelated to those people suffering from nak 100 in the first place.

Investigation continues.
our stations will still need to be removed from this 'ban list'. Have you or Deppy monitored a station that ALREADY has this nak problem, like my ips? Watching from our end isnt goin to help much when all it says is NAK 100 error. again here are my IPS for our station, if you or Deppy would like to unban and monitor why they get delisted that would be Wonderful!

207.210.90.107:8090
67.159.5.160:8005
208.101.33.203:9710

Last edited by GhettoRadio; 26th July 2006 at 17:20.
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Old 26th July 2006, 18:26   #73
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If everyone could post the IP:PORT combo of any effected servers that would help most... if I were workign on the issue I would want a good list of effected servers, since some digging and comparison of the multiple YP nodes is needed.
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Old 26th July 2006, 18:39   #74
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82.34.88.178:8000 was blocked 2 days ago - not sure about now though cos I have changed the port.

All the best

Zoe



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Old 26th July 2006, 19:00   #75
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My Affected servers:

213.251.174.54:8000 (v1.95, linux, relay 128k)
70.52.188.180:8000 (v1.95, win2k3,head server, 128k public)

Both went nak(100) at close to the same hour on July 17th after some server problems (multiple disconnects from the yp) and are still the same.
Changed to another relay server for 128k stream which is now on the directory and 'getting touched'

The 64K AAC+ and 24K AAC+ relays are still ok and on the directory off of the Nak'd main server.

I've tried to be as descriptive as possible to help for debugging if you have any questions let me know. I appreciate the time and effort you're taking to solve this.

Cheers,
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Old 26th July 2006, 21:22   #76
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http://mst3k.selfip.com:18000 (not currently Nak 100 but has been in the past)

http://208.98.26.39:18000 (at this very moment nak 100 but have helpticket in to change port)

http://216.240.154.155:12000 (at this very moment nak 100 but have helpticket in to change port)

http://3k.serverroom.us:6767 (Only a week old, has yet to go NAK 100)
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Old 27th July 2006, 04:55   #77
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I'm kinda confused since I have one server which is giving me a successful yp add message. I am not however seeing the directory tester touching at all, the server is not listing and I am not seeing the nak 100 error. Is this common?

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Old 27th July 2006, 08:59   #78
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Not sure if our server is still in the database:

69.56.215.242:8000
69.56.215.242:8005

Haven't tried them for a while and currently using port 8001 which is working fine and so I can't at this moment load up a DNAS on 8000 again.

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Old 27th July 2006, 10:43   #79
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Is it possible for now for Shoutcast Admin to disable the whole Nak 100 error and have all the stations listed until the problem is resolved, or is that not possible?
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Old 27th July 2006, 11:16   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by MegaRock
I'm kinda confused since I have one server which is giving me a successful yp add message. I am not however seeing the directory tester touching at all, the server is not listing and I am not seeing the nak 100 error. Is this common?
Yes
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