Old 13th July 2007, 20:32   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phyltre
The X-Fi soundcard alone caused headaches, as did networking adapters. Video performance was a jump back from XP. But by now, ALL these problems have been cleared for roughly 98% of users. There are still very few driver problems, but no more than existed in XP with the same hardware (and, for properly written drivers, problems are fewer than on XP because the code is cleaner.) I've been browsing the support forums of the companies I had problems with, and valid complaints are going down--not up.

I think people saw all the release-day driver problems with Vista and assumed they were Vista problems rather than third-party problems. But time has shown that wasn't the case.
From what I read recently, Creative's vista drivers still have a long ways to go for the bulk of its products. They did seem to give the X-Fi series priority(most recent and probably marketed to vista users). The rest are complaining about lack of surround sound output and the sale of Alchemy. NVidia's Geforce drivers still have some issues as well with older products(like the 6&7 series).

I'm not blaming vista for 3PD problems. But there still is much ground to cover in the Hardware driver department for a lot of popular products and software makers dragging their feet.

...I also don't believe that Windows is an invincible product and that other OSes can't get ahead because of driver support. Because its simply not the case anymore.
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:31   #122
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Discuss!!!!

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Old 24th July 2007, 16:44   #123
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Vista costs more, and requires decent (non-ancient) hardware. Since the average computer user is a budget user and probably doesn't want to spend more money on either new components or a more expensive OS, this is non-news to me.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:15   #124
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yes, my point was: wasn't this my argumenet the entire time and at some point in time, isn't MS going to have to polightly force people to use Vista .... which is why sales are not as expected .... which is what this article confirms?
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Old 25th July 2007, 04:20   #125
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Well, yeah, but it's sort of a non-issue because they're going to stop selling it sometime anyway, regardless of demand. I doubt if anything could move that planned date by more than nine months, but of course I'm not Microsoft.
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Old 25th July 2007, 08:15   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
yes, my point was: wasn't this my argumenet the entire time and at some point in time, isn't MS going to have to polightly force people to use Vista .... which is why sales are not as expected .... which is what this article confirms?
I'm not sure I'm reading that post right, but I don't think that was your argument, and that would be an effect, rather than a cause, of the stuff in the article, so it doesn't really prove anything like that.

Projected sales and adoption figures always seem over-optimistic, that's the only thing I can see here.

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Old 25th July 2007, 23:01   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
I'm not sure I'm reading that post right, but I don't think that was your argument....
Man, I gotta do a better job communicating then ... well, I guess you are correct, but it was a part of the argument.
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Old 6th August 2007, 07:10   #128
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All I know about Vista is that the hardware requirements are outrageous. I'm running Debian and opensuse on an old PIII computer that cost me sixty bucks, and about the only thing it can't handle are 3D graphics. Cheap computing is not only great fun... it's also cheap!

Vista? No thank you, Mistah!
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Old 6th August 2007, 08:18   #129
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Well, yes, Vista is for newer PCs. This is hardly a criticism!

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Old 6th August 2007, 15:31   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
Well, yes, Vista is for newer PCs. This is hardly a criticism!
Indeed. Vista's performance is actually pretty impressive on older PCs for an OS targeted at newer high-end hardware.

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Old 6th August 2007, 20:12   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
Well, yes, Vista is for newer PCs. This is hardly a criticism!
Please don't misunderstand. I didn't intend it a criticism... so much as an excellent reason not to use the bloated, expensive, resource-hungry piece of shit. Which I don't.

It's not like Linux doesn't run great on upper-end hardware. If forcing you to buy expensive hardware isn't a negative selling point, I don't know what is.

Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
Indeed. Vista's performance is actually pretty impressive on older PCs for an OS targeted at newer high-end hardware.
All I know are the hardware requirements posted by Microsoft. That's all I'm going on, and possibly all I will ever know about Vista.

This wouldn't be so objectionable, but we're talking about a would-be monopoly who wants to force everybody into Vista. If Windows were producing an OS for lower-end machines, it wouldn't be so bad.

But I don't mean to sound indignant. All this has nothing to do with me.
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Old 7th August 2007, 08:11   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
bloated, expensive, resource-hungry piece of shit.
This is pretty much unjustified. Other than "resource-hungry", I suppose, which is just relative. It's not resource hungry when what it does is taken into account.

Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
It's not like Linux doesn't run great on upper-end hardware. If forcing you to buy expensive hardware isn't a negative selling point, I don't know what is.
It's not forcing you to buy expensive hardware. You're not forced to do anything. If you buy new hardware it will be more than sufficient, especially considering that most PCs that you can buy in stores are now specifically designed to run Vista.


Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
If Windows were producing an OS for lower-end machines, it wouldn't be so bad.
Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs. Aimed at business users because most home users who have an older PC got an OS with it.

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Old 7th August 2007, 15:12   #133
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Well, I stand corrected about the legacy OS, and obviously, the statement about Vista being a piece of shit was tongue in cheek. I have no first hand knowledge of Vista, and little second-hand knowledge, and no interest in learning more.

Like I said in the beginning, all I know is that the published hardware requirements are outrageous-- and I certainly do think that's a valid criticism, unless it does something that my current OS doesn't do, and I've yet to hear about that. I've seen the commercials for the aero 3D desktop, but Linux has a nice collection of similar interfaces.

That's all I have to say about this, and until I actually use Vista, all I can ever have to say about this.

Except that I'm gratified to be free of it all. Migrating to Linux wasn't easy, but now I'm completely comfortable and happy. It is with no small satisfaction that I watch as Microsoft says "Upgrade!", and the rest of the word asks: "How high?"

And I look forward to the perfectly good second-hand hardware that is already beginning to sell cheap at garage sales and at my favorite second hand computer store in Ithaca, thanks to Vista. YUMMY!

I saw the Vista interface at Circuit City, and it looks pretty good. In some ways it reminded me of Gnome.

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Old 7th August 2007, 17:33   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
and I certainly do think that's a valid criticism, unless it does something that my current OS doesn't do, and I've yet to hear about that.
Have you actually read this thread? I'm not exactly a linux guru (and so I can't claim exclusivity) but many benefits of Vista have been linked to or listed here.
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Old 8th August 2007, 13:03   #135
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I've read some of the stuff about how Vista is better than XP. I can't really comment on that, as I'm only slightly familiar with XP.

Once again, I have only one brass tacks criticism of Vista, those insane hardware requirements, and while I certainly think that's valid, I can't say anything more about it.

Let me dial down the Microsoft-hate. It's fun to put Vista down, but the truth is no doubt that it's a sophisticated user-friendly operating system, and it does things that I couldn't have imagined twenty or even ten years ago. If I had to use Vista, I'd be justified in hating it, but I don't. As I've said in here before, Bill Gates doesn't deserve to own the future, but he absolutely deserves to be very rich, as much as anyone in the world.

As far as Linux is concerned, it's still not for everyone, The reasons for that are mostly cultural, not technical. If Linux were as ubiquitous as Windows, if it came preinstalled on every machine, if every computer shop knew how to support Linux, and if everyone around you knew how to run Linux, there would be very few problems. But that's not the world we're living in, and so change comes slowly. It wasn't easy for me to make the change, and I can't criticize anyone who would prefer to wait a few years.
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Old 8th August 2007, 14:08   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
Like I said in the beginning, all I know is that the published hardware requirements are outrageous-- and I certainly do think that's a valid criticism, unless it does something that my current OS doesn't do, and I've yet to hear about that. I've seen the commercials for the aero 3D desktop, but Linux has a nice collection of similar interfaces.
The 3D window effects for X are alpha or beta quality at best, although they are quite neat and impressive. And they do run quite a lot faster than Aero, but on the other hand when you put the effects in Aero into the effect set on the system (the blur, in particular), it slows right down.

Sadly most of Vista's really neat features are kinda hard to understand, but it does have a bunch of sophisticated features which at least partly mitigate the high requirements.

Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
I saw the Vista interface at Circuit City, and it looks pretty good. In some ways it reminded me of Gnome.
I like Gnome (it's what I use at home), but I don't really see the resemblance. Maybe with the Ubuntu Studio theme on it

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Old 9th August 2007, 13:45   #137
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What reminded me of gnome is the way the icons were removed from the main desktop area. Does that make sense? In gnome this accomplished with a panel on the top of the screen.
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Old 9th August 2007, 17:10   #138
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P.S. Did you know that "Ubuntu" comes from an ancient African word meaning "overrated"?
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Old 9th August 2007, 20:05   #139
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Nope...wrong on that one:

Quote:
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'Humanity to others', or 'I am what I am because of who we all are'. The Ubuntu distribution brings the spirit of Ubuntu to the software world.
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Old 9th August 2007, 21:37   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckerm
Nope...wrong on that one:
Thank you, Captain Obvious
Quote:
The 3D window effects for X are alpha or beta quality at best, although they are quite neat and impressive.
Have you seen what they're doing with redirected direct rendering? It's pretty neat.

powered by C₂H₅OH
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Old 9th August 2007, 22:11   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckerm
Nope...wrong on that one:
Sorry. I can understand why you were confused. I should have used the winky face.
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Old 10th August 2007, 09:00   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderbaby1958
What reminded me of gnome is the way the icons were removed from the main desktop area. Does that make sense? In gnome this accomplished with a panel on the top of the screen.
Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. But really there's huge similarities between most interfaces now.

Quote:
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P.S. Did you know that "Ubuntu" comes from an ancient African word meaning "overrated"?
I heard it meant "Gentoo is too hard".

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Old 10th August 2007, 10:27   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
I heard it meant "Gentoo is too hard".
It is not!












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Old 10th August 2007, 13:18   #144
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I heard it meant "Gentoo is too hard".
Y'know, I think Gentoo is great, but it really does take a lot of work sometimes.

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Old 10th August 2007, 14:48   #145
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Gentoo is great for people who like compiling things and having bleeding-edge software.

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Old 11th August 2007, 02:00   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
Gentoo is great for people who like compiling things and having bleeding-edge software.
I had a pipe dream of installing that and using it for a beowulf cluster.

Few days later I installed RH7 ... or was it 6????

Anyway as zootm nailed, I found the distro to be too non-standard, which forced me to compile everything from source. Which is fine, don't get me wrong ....

But not even God gets to source code for Gaussian....
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Old 11th August 2007, 04:45   #147
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Gentoo is. . . well just use it for a while and see for yourself! The one time I don't like it is if I need a system up and running right now.

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Old 11th August 2007, 09:14   #148
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It's also quite handy when viewed from the perspective of a "distro construction kit". It allows a lot of control. That control isn't something I want or need, though.

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Old 11th August 2007, 12:04   #149
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Actually I have been using Vista now for about three months,
and I would not go back to any other version of windows. I have had zero problems with the vista system, so I personally give it 2 thumbs up.
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Old 11th August 2007, 15:09   #150
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I could never get gentoo running... but let's face it, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I have a dual boot of Debian and Opensuse. I prefer Debian, but with suse, yast makes certain things easy. Like when I added a soundcard, yast made it easy to override the broken onboard soundcard.
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