Old 2nd December 2012, 03:12   #81
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Obama doesn't want you to work for your welfare. Romney want's you to have a job so you don't need to be on welfare.

I don't agree with vilifying the poor, but that's not an exclusively right wing idea. What Obama is trying to undo is what Clinton did. I'm expecting this to die of businesses not participating, not from "You dint do that".

The US seems to be behind the curve on this, but the UK has staged boycotts of businesses participating:

http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

You won't get my patronage if I'm aware of your participation. Go hire a welfare person and do us all a real favor. Keep them on day 181. Usually they're as good a bunch of workers as anyone else, and they are really grateful for getting treated right. Usually it seems shocking to them that someone would treat them fairly. You will need to help them get over the chip they've usually got on their shoulder. I think it's pretty understandable. It's not an excuse. It's just understandable.

I think when you treat people with respect, they make you proud. That doesn't mean hand holding and butt kissing.... it means fair... tempered with a fair amount of compassion... a fair amount of generosity....

What did I spend at Goodwill for a coat for a soppy kid? $15. Nice woman's rain coat. What did I spend on BB's dog collar and leash $27. I think what really gets me is that I enlisted of the neighborhood grandma to give the kid a coat, because I didn't want to look like an old perve or something.

Do something nice and everyone always expects some kind of ulterior motive.

Properly punished and well jaded... USA! USA! If I had a son... she's lucky to have survived... War on Women!... Fuck the poor!.... and now for some historic legislation that will piss 49.9% of you off..... no smoking within a quarter mile of the hospital entrance... or outside in the park.... keep your dog on a leash... looks like a killer...... What can we fuck with next? Can we figure out how to make somebody's day just a little more miserable?

I'm expecting my grandchildren to be wearing their pajamas with sock feet and a butt flap as the standard socialist uniform. Don't yell Grandpa. Here's some x a n a x.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2012, 04:15   #82
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Obama wants a regular job instead of welfare. That's the whole point of allowing states to come up with their own better system. In the mean time I don't see the other states as wrong when they just have the work-for-welfare. Having a job builds character, even if it's a rough job. If there is true disrespect, and it gets excessive, the employee can document it and take action, but otherwise, he/she just needs to build a better work ethic.

edit-
Factcheck.org actually does a slightly better job when compared to my earlier link at describing what the federal and state governments have implemented (with Republican support), plus it links to even more details. Click here for their article.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2012, 12:04   #83
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
If there is true disrespect
You're so well protected from your employer, he sent the work to China.

Quote:
Having a job builds character
People that say that destroyed the world economy with greed, incompetence and liberal. They didn't get burned. Millions of people who had a job don't. Millions are kids turning 18. They aren't any jobs for them. Millions of people are graduating college. Half of them are out of work.

Which group of people do you think need a lesson in character?

We're lucky we're a little established. I've been the 20 year old without an economy. I was 19 when the economy was this bad 31 years ago. You hit prime time when things were halfway decent. I don't think you really understand screwed, blued and tatooed. I ended up with a college degree that wasn't worth anything for 5 years.

You probably worked hard and had some hard times. But in one of these economies you can make no mistakes and still get your ass handed to you.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 2nd December 2012 at 15:04.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2012, 03:04   #84
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
You must not have read my threads (I usually don't start new threads, but some of the ones I have started have been my experience with some pretty messed up stuff. I've been laid off several times, meaning I have lost my family's income, health care, and ability to pay my financial obligations including over a thousand per month in student loans, living expenses, and other necessities, with no local family members to help at all. There were no mistakes leading to any of the instances where this happened to me, and this is something school personnel face regardless of how good or bad the economy is. I work in a field (school counseling) where there are around 30-100 qualified applicants for every opening that comes up (and that's when the economy is good), so landing a gig is almost impossible. There are several rounds of interviewing, each cutting a few more candidates, until finally only one is left to do the job.

Screwed, blued, tattooed? In college, I couldn't afford screws, tattoos, or anything blue. I strategically parked and push-started a small, rusty, dented up pickup truck for months because I couldn't afford a replacement starter that a girlfriend ruined by consistently holding it too long after it was started. My boss at Cedar's Cafe (Youngstown where I spun swing dance cds Thursday nights) finally bought me one saying he was afraid I'd accidentally miss jumping in while pushing and run myself over. I was lucky to still have that truck after being bought for a few hundred bucks when I was a teenager when I didn't have to pay living expenses. I slept in various dorm rooms and apartments of people I would meet because I couldn't afford my own and couldn't afford to commute all the way to my family's places. There were a couple times I slept under the truck's cap in the Wick Ave. parking deck because I was too tired from knocking on friend's empty doors when they were out. My junior year I finally got a scholarship that got me a dorm room, my own meal plan rather than mooching off other students' meal plans, and even a book voucher. I did what I had to do to get through, with the grace of some others that were generous enough to help.

I don't think that people understand that being out of work isn't really being out of work. You still should have a full time job of job hunting or training. My wife and I spent countless hours at the library putting out over a dozen packets per day, sending them all over the country when we were looking for work. People have to network as many ways as possible, because a lot of jobs come as a result of that rather than looking for ads. I found most of my pre-professional jobs that way.

I never thought it was beneath me to be a farm hand throwing hay bails and shoveling shit, or serving tables at a restaurant, or ringing a bell for donations. There were many others like this too. They did build character and they were valuable for me.

This sounds pretty conservative, but all this still is not to say that I don't believe in transitional help from the taxpayers. After all, it was in part through subsidized loans that I got my education, and it was worth it, because it made me able to afford a better life plus the ability to work on paying back what I borrowed.

My masters thesis deals with urban poverty (more specifically researching interventions that have proven most effective at transitioning students out of poverty in Ohio's 8 largest cities). Add that to the populations I've taught my entire professional career, and I would think I have a pretty good understanding of families in poverty.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2012, 07:36   #85
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
where there are around 30-100 qualified applicants for every opening that comes up (and that's when the economy is good), so landing a gig is almost impossible.
Let's turn almost impossible into impossible and you've just about got it. You listened to Obama and believed him when he said we were in recovery. We are not in recovery.

I predict your situation for finding kids jobs will be twice as bad in three years and I could back that assumption up with some numbers. Perhaps 5 years from now, we'll be back to where we are now. Romney might have made it 4. I think that year was important. It's a million kids we didn't flush.

This article was interesting:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/featu...trust-20120419

I remember in the 80's we were more optimistic than we are now. Live and learn I guess.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 3rd December 2012 at 09:49.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2012, 07:53   #86
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
..oops.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2012, 22:37   #87
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
In the last 10 years (the selected timeframe from the article), opinion has replaced fact in the media, to a severe extent. People just watch preacher-to-the-choir shows. "Trust" is opinion. Here are some facts:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/arch...t_11022012.htm

We're in recovery. College grads have unemployment down to 3.8%, and most of them could get jobs if they were willing to relocate or step outside of their specific field.

Most demographics have unemployment down a full percent from last year to this, the recovery has been ongoing for a couple years, and has sped up this past year.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2012, 22:49   #88
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002


You're playing with lefty, massaged Obama numbers. This labor force participation graph tells the tale. You might notice the trend of the graph.

Quote:
and most of them could get jobs if they were willing to relocate or step outside of their specific field.
You mean like joining the Navy, driving a cab, shoveling shit down at the dairy? Been there. I didn't end up on welfare or food stamps. I had a job. Nothing college was good for, but I had a job. I could get the jobs I was qualified for before I went to college, but even they were hard to come by.

Most of the improvement in the unemployment percentage is from people who fell off the unemployment rolls and quit looking. This is what probably made me vote for Romney. We have a President who ostensibly doesn't even see a problem.

We're in recovery! Bullshit!

Quote:
College grads have unemployment down to 3.8%
Even commie ABC says 7.8%.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/jobs-...2#.UL09EYOul0w

Look at how many years it took Reagan to fix the pinch? 6? Between August and now, we see the graph turning upward slightly. Overall 2012 is going to be almost flat. It's too early to tell if that's the end of decline or not. It's not by any stretch of the imagination.... recovery.

4 million kids in the US turn 18 every year. That's 333,000 kids needing work a month in an economy that's making 150,000 jobs a month.

That smokes a million kids a year pretty effectively doesn't it?

I got by, but I'm still stronger and smarter than 90% of people and better looking than half of them. Let's take your National Merit Scholar, make him work full time and go to college. That keeps his grades down to a 3.5 from sheer fatigue Hand him a diploma and tell him his best gig is driving a cab or military service. I could have stayed and got my masters and had a different outcome, but I was out of money, and frankly too tired. I had been working full time and going to school since I was 16.

That's me.

My thinking at the time.. OK, I'll get through this rough spot and find myself a nice job in a computer company and have a day off once in a while. No dice. Truly, I damn near shot myself. And when I did get back to real work, I was an old guy working with kids that never saw a rainy day. It was a personality dynamic that I found fairly aggravating.

I wonder how long people would live if we didn't get our ass kicked on a regular basis? I used to say .... what doesn't kill you makes you strong... I used to say that....
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2012, 00:23   #89
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Massaged numbers? You're breaking one of the most important rules in statistics. Never post a graph that doesn't start at zero. That huge hump is actually quite small. Furthermore, you have cut off recent times with it, whereas I have actually posted the most recent available numbers from the most trusted research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockouthippie View Post
Most of the improvement in the unemployment percentage is from people who fell off the unemployment rolls and quit looking.
No, the number of employed and working people has increased. Check the dept. of labor. You're also posting a stat that doesn't account for change in demographic. This reflects an increase of population that isn't of working age, e.g. children and retirees that live longer while new retirees are adding up. It's a useless stat that creates an often debunked argument. You also forget about people retiring when you are worried about a million 18 year olds not finding work... Look at the big picture before agreeing with the pessimism that the opinion media shows you.

Your ABC reference doesn't apply to specifically college grads, it applied to total 16 years old and older for September, of all levels of education. Both what I posted and what ABC claimed are indeed correct. Check my link and you'll find the 7.8 that ABC referred to, while also seeing the 3.8 I referred to.

The other thing... You can't just expect someone else to give you a job. You have to earn it by outperforming the competition or create it through entrepreneurship or relocate where the jobs are. If you use resources available to you in terms of employment offices and libraries, you can usually at least find something that'll get you to tread water while looking for and/or training for something better. It takes hard work and cleaning yourself up - dropping bad habits and replacing them with healthy ones.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2012, 00:33   #90
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
I needed to add... Did you ever wander why Romney himself didn't use that stat? He's not dumb enough to set himself up for debunking, something that happens when someone that understands labor statistics sees the stat. It just doesn't show a valid picture of who "should" but isn't working.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2012, 03:51   #91
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
You're also posting a stat that doesn't account for change in demographic.
What change in demographic? The "labor participation rate" is simply the percentage of able, working age adults that have a job. Children aren't counted. The retired aren't counted.

Quote:
the number of employed and working people has increased.
But not as fast as population growth. You made a couple million jobs a year and made 4 million 18 year olds.



That's why this graph is going up, and the previous labor participation rate graph is still in decline.

Quote:
The other thing... You can't just expect someone else to give you a job. You have to earn it by outperforming the competition or create it through entrepreneurship or relocate where the jobs are.
In this kind of an economy, you can make no mistakes and still lose. It kind of depends on what your support system is too. Being an entrepreneur is tougher than it was. Clinton era tax changes made it so you need to have a grip of money to hire anybody. If you cheat, they'll fall on you like a lead brick. It's why everything is a big box.

The mom and pop could handle the changes in the market. What they couldn't handle without being a "big box" was the government red tape. It's really funny to see Obama get up and razz the Republicans for outsourcing, when Clinton was the poster boy for it.

The conversion of the United States to a service based economy has failed.

I always managed to scratch my way through, but a lot of people aren't as smart, good looking and modest as I am. It shouldn't be as rough as it is. And in a lot of ways, due to government policies, it's artificially rough.

I've done small business things for a lot of my life. One thing is certain. Make anything work and the government will be along to put you out of business.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 01:03   #92
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
What are the sources of these graphs? Why do they omit recent times, with this most recent one cutting off shortly after 2009 was over? Seems kinda 'cherry-picked' data, wouldn't you say?...

Says who on the children and retiree counting [again, sources]? The Dept. of Labor actually spells out the definition of who's being counted, which is why I posted it. The best you could do to support that claim is to say that in some cases, people actually do discount children from the stat, but not on the participation graph you posted. Nobody discounts retirees, because there's no accurate way to do it. There's also no way of showing that it discounts the disabled, but I will admit, too many people are considered disabled when they are still useful in a lot of jobs or are not disabled at all.

I also have to add, which can support one way or the other, you also can't blame government for what consumers do. The fact is, consumers shop at places that hurt them, despite knowing better. That's a bigger problem than any political or governmental problem. There was a time when people actually paid attention to what they were buying and where it was produced, and who was producing it. That time is over and needs to come back. They're too busy going to the one store that sells it all for nothing; too busy buying shit the media and neighbors tell them they need (which they don't need); too busy passing blame to the other political side, when they themselves need to look at the fault staring them in the mirror.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 03:30   #93
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Just look this stuff up on the BLS website.

Basically we now 300,000 more labor ready people without a job than we had in 2009. We are not creating as many jobs as new workers.

Labor participation rate through October:

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Labor force (employable persons) through October.

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutput...me=LN_cpsbref1

How does the "unemployment rate" go down when the "labor participation rate goes down" and the number of employable persons goes up?

People fall out of the system.

I will remind you that "bumps" on the graph are millions of people.

So the situation is just a little bit worse now than it was on doomsday.

300,000 people. The population of a medium sized city.... And we didn't even make a dent in the big crash where millions ended up out of work.

This is still getting worse. We now have as many jobs as we had in January 2006. Look up "(Seas) Employment Level". Yay?
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2012, 00:14   #94
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Again age... 16 years and over. First of all 16-18 year olds don't often need a job and choose not to have one. 18-22 year olds are often in college and not working or are working a tax free campus job that isn't counted by the bls. Retirees are indeed counted as non-working and cause the percentage to look lower. The economy has caused a lot of people to be encouraged to retire (to avoid layoffs in their organizations), with their jobs eliminated through attrition, or replaced at entry-level pay, or they retire on their own thinking it'll help, and it does. Even more often people are retiring just because they're reaching the retirement age in masses due to the fact that it's currently a hugely populated age group in this country.

On the other graph you linked to, we're at an all time high.

I looked up employment level and got this: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12..._view=net_1mth

You'll notice that negative months are fewer and less severe in recent times while positive months are more frequent and higher each in recent times.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2012, 05:20   #95
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
we're at an all time high
Every year is supposed to be an all time high. That's the problem. This economy grew about 1.5 million jobs since Obama took over in Jan 2009. That's fucking pitiful. We're still losing ground. Less people, as a percentage of the working age population have a job than ever had one in history. That's the labor participation rate.

Are we making more jobs than new people entering the workforce? No. Obama is a fail.

Quote:
18-22 year olds are often in college and not working or are working a tax free campus
Irrelevant. They always did that.

Quote:
Even more often people are retiring just because they're reaching the retirement age in masses
Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with jobs created. It actually works against your assumption.

Quote:
You'll notice that negative months are fewer and less severe in recent times while positive months are more frequent and higher each in recent times.
Yeah, just before the election we are going less "in the hole", but it's not "over" or good.

I will admit the economy is a little less stagnant than it was. We are losing the battle at a lesser rate, but we are still losing.

I feel like the President tried to shine a turd for the election. Some of you fell for it...

Obama... I made all these jobs... Yes, in spite of the President, we managed to grow... a little....
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2012, 02:22   #96
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
The retirement doesn't work against the assumption at all. They're still counted as working age when they're not really working age anymore because they still fit "16 and over".

I don't see how Romney would have made anything better, not that we're all bad. You're still working. I'm still working. Anyone that has a true work ethic and is willing to actually do what it takes can still find work, despite claims to the contrary, and if they can't, believe it or not, I and many others with connections in employment agencies can find them work.

Most that make the argument suddenly shut up and also fail to show up when I tell them where they can find good work. They're just not willing to do what it takes. Our country was built by people willing to cross the Atlantic to find a better life. Today's people often aren't even willing to leave their own town or their own chosen career field.

Our economy is not in recession anymore, and certainly isn't in depression. The NBER is more qualified to say so than anyone, and they say it ended years ago.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2012, 03:09   #97
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
The NBER says "In determining that a trough occurred in June 2009, the committee did not conclude that economic conditions since that month have been favorable or that the economy has returned to operating at normal capacity."

Quote:
I don't see how Romney would have made anything better
Bill Clinton said it. Nobody could have done better. Finding Obama adequate is living in a country with depressingly low expectations. Everything Obama promised in 2008 is half-assed or not at all.

You might consider your hero won the popular vote by 1%. Half the people in the country, including me, chose Romney. Really? Romney? A worthwhile Obama Presidency would have been a landslide.

I agree with a lot of what Obama said he was gonna do. I'm not that right wing. But the guy is a bullshit artist.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 7th December 2012 at 05:16.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2012, 03:01   #98
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Well, I won't say that Barack Obama is a hero to me and would never make the claim that he is. No politician is as of yet at least, and other politicians have done better jobs than he has, but they were also dealt different hands.

It's fair to say there were broken campaign promises, but that's saying the glass is half empty. If you count his accomplishments (even despite the horrible stalemate congress he was given for some of his presidency), he's actually been notably successful.

As a kid, I made countless promises to myself - life goals I hoped to achieve. I only achieved some of them. Does that make me a failure? Perhaps for a pessimist, but really, I'm doing pretty well, all things considered, even though I only achieved some of the things I set out to do. So I don't have that log cabin at my camp yet and still have to use a tent, and I only have one child, and we live/work a long drive from the rest of our family. But, if you count accomplishments, they both outnumber and outweigh the broken promises, and perhaps the goals not yet met will be met if I give myself a little more time. Let's watch. Maybe Obama really will keep some of those not-yet-kept promises before his 8th year is up.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2012, 07:14   #99
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
but that's saying the glass is half empty
3/4's empty if that. This President has done nothing important, at least not that isn't half assed. I don't see why you hated George Bush. Obama is the same guy with a tan. Only the lobbyists changed.

Obama took the independent vote in 2008. The only place he won this time was North Carolina. Obama almost lost this election. A far cry from 2008.

I think Romney was kind of a weak candidate. Without the minority vote (94% blindly Obama), he would have lost. The best anyone ever did there is Bill Clinton with 85%. That would have been an Obama lose.

So we have a President that squeaked by against a weak candidate. It isn't a confidence builder. The US government has not returned to the rule of law. The wars went according to Bush plans. Iran is gonna get a nuke soon. Gitmo is open. We have a health care bill written by the industry lobby. We're on the hook for $100BN in loan guarantees for green power that didn't make a watt or a job.

Obama bitched about everything bad about George Bush and then did exactly the same things, except worse. Now it's 100% legal for the government to tap your phone, rendition you to be tortured.... etc... But you can get Obamaphone

I think the guy is a complete hypocrite. I didn't think it was possible, but I think Obama is even more in the pocket of lobbyists than GB was. One example is George Bush's prescription drug plan written by the lobby... which is bad... Followed by BO's ACA written by the lobby.

Obama does things that made people vilify George Bush. But nobody seems to notice. Only Democrats get to be in lobbyists pockets, have a "war for oil", tap phones, rendition people for torture, and detain people without trial.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2012, 14:59   #100
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Obama won just about all the swing states in '12. Not a landslide, but a clean win.

Bush plans? He planned to end wars during his own presidency, telling us he would several times. But he ended up continuing them by killing more of us every day either financially or literally in the case of our soldiers.

The idea that Iran is going to have nuclear weapons soon is ludicrous. I've posted about this before. The US created ours in three years without the luxury of anyone having figured it out in the past. Iran has had half a century to figure it out and still hasn't. Perhaps in 50 more years, some decedent of Romney will just change the number in the speech: Citizens of the US beware! We're a century closer to a nuclear Iran! Give me a break. Obama's crippling sanctions on Iran have worked far better than anything anyone else has tried. Romney's response? I woulda' done the same thing, but more or louder! Romney's foreign policy debate was full of that and therefore weak, and he clearly showed that he was not the better candidate because of it, especially on the foreign policy topics. He focused most forcefully on Benghazi, a very comparatively small issue that is extremely loosley related to the presidency, and "apology tour" which all fact checkers have proven blatantly false.

Minority vote? Minorities are people, and people voted for Obama. Deal with it.

The Affordable Health Care Act is a far better system than no system, especially for those that need it most. Romney's state proved it and he himself said it should be a model for the country.

Congress is in the way of closing "Gitmo". You yourself have voiced opinions supporting it being open in past threads if I recall correctly. Honestly the more I think about it, the more I think it makes more sense to fix it (make it a more humane place rather than tortuous place) than close it.

Green power provides tons of wattage and thousands of jobs. Specifically speaking, many of my Iowa graduates are very successfully working in the wind energy industry. Wind blows virtually constantly and strong in the Midwest. Why not use it? That's just one example. To say it's not worth it just doesn't match the facts that show that green energy works well.

You are back on the Obamaphone after I showed evidence that it's total bullshit? This is what educated people do? Find out their words make no sense but just repeat them hoping people will just accept a lie? There's virtually nothing Obama did to liken himself to bush, except live in the same house.

War for oil is going away under Obama, not getting started like Bush. Every president is influenced by lobbyists, but Romney would have been much worse - just look at his top 10 contributors. Tapping phones happened constantly since the end of the Second World War as a Cold War national security measure. It's only recently been in the news starting with the "Patriot Act". How has it harmed you or anyone else? Torture is something that I have not seen reported in the last 4 years. It's something the UN has been monitoring and prohibiting. Any claims of it have not been confirmed and are therefore hearsay at best.

Detaining without trial happens as a result of necessary safety measures. I'm sure you'd agree if you read up on why it occasionally has to happen.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2012, 19:38   #101
watadoo
JEDI MASTER
 
watadoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canyon, CA with a bunch of hippies
Posts: 1,336
Obama won by a landslide. Get over it Republicans. Your failed economic policies of coddling the wealthy and mission to kill social programs and harm the poor does not wash with the American people. Romney got only one demographic: old white guys who yell at the radio and rant/drool all over themselves. He was the worst candidate put up by a major party in memory -- and he was the best that clown show could come up with. remember Hermie Cain, Bachmann, Perry, Gngrich. wow.

The economy is strengthening and unemployment #'s are dropping every month. Sure, not in ever distressed bumfuck town in the sticks, but over all things are looking up from the recession/depression of 2007-8. That is fact and not conjecture.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
watadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2012, 23:30   #102
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
A political scientist would agree that 2012 was an electoral landslide, but RoH also has a point of you look at the popular vote which was 51% to 47.3% which was only a difference of 3.7%. When it's that close, you really have to find a way to educate those that only listen to all the opinion radio and TV shows or else you could end up losing to a really fucked up platform.

Things are getting better for those who are willing to do what it takes to get there. Things could get even better yet if we could speed up the naturalization and taxation of undocumented immigrants.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 07:28   #103
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Quote:
Things are getting better for those who are willing to do what it takes to get there
Blame the unemployed and the poor for an economic crisis caused by disastrous economic policies created by ambitious, greedy, well educated people who were willing to do what it takes to get there. Where we we trying to get to?

And the only thing Obama did about it was to do his MLK impression: "I have a cheese..."

Quote:
you really have to find a way to educate those that only listen to all the opinion radio
How about leftist TV pretending to be journalism? How about the garbage that's on prime time. Some of this shit is enough to make a goat puke.

I'll trade you AM radio for TV

Last edited by rockouthippie; 9th December 2012 at 10:19.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 15:34   #104
watadoo
JEDI MASTER
 
watadoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canyon, CA with a bunch of hippies
Posts: 1,336
Swingdjted, Looking at it historically, 51% - 47% is a pretty huge number in American electoral politics. Obama had the majority in every demographic across the board -- the young, women, hispanic, african American, asian. Every group except old white men who listen to Fox and talk radio. Unless the far right does a massive sea change in how they approach and insult and try to marginalize the people of this country, they are doomed as a party. They've held onto the house by massive gerrymandering, but those numbers will drop too, especially as Obama care fully kicks in and people find out they can get low cost guaranteed insurance and the economy continues to improve. As they find the Republicans and their propaganda machine Fox is nothing but lies and more lies, they will leave the (r) party in droves.

It's a numbers game and they lost. And shrieking the Fox lies louder isn't going to work. The lies are now recognized as lies. The American people have proved to be not quite the moron, cheap marks the Koch Brotheres, Rove and Fox and Romney thought they were.

Pretty encouraging actually.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
watadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 15:36   #105
watadoo
JEDI MASTER
 
watadoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canyon, CA with a bunch of hippies
Posts: 1,336
The post that slipped in between yours and mine, Swingdjted, is a prime example of the death throes of the (r) party and it's dying, in denial of reality base.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
watadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 15:43   #106
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
72% of white people voted for Romney and 57% of white women. Only 43% of white women voted for John McCain. 55% of whites in 2008.

We just all turned into Archie Bunker in 4 years. Obama lost the independent vote in every swing state except North Carolina. He won them all last time.

So was it bigotry or is it that Obama is a shitty President?

What does a 96% African American vote tell you? Are they thinking or are they voting for the black guy?
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 16:36   #107
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
Opinion media is on both sides. I think that you'll see far more on one than the other, especially on radio waves, but there's blame both ways. The major TV networks seem to swing back and forth, but are often still opinionated. I like C-Span. No bullshit, just coverage of government and what it does (or doesn't).

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 16:38   #108
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Must educated them.... D is good... R is bad.. now here's a condom, food stamps and Obamaphone. Romney... he wants your cheese...
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 16:38   #109
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
lol after posting I got another edit above me. Another false Obamaphone claim. Keep it up and perhaps they'll believe!

edit - and another edit above... I'm having trouble keeping up.

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 16:41   #110
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
CSPAN... usually they're jerking off... Sometimes they do something... once a week maybe, but 99 hours of jerking off and 10 minutes of doing something stupid.

Most of the time, it's impossible to tell what they did. Like the thousand of pages of ACA, which Pelosi wanted us to encourage Congress to pass so we could see what was in it.

No discussion of this bill was in public on CSPAN. That was in back rooms.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 17:16   #111
swingdjted
DRINK BEER NOW
(Forum King)
 
swingdjted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Northern West Virginia
Posts: 9,990
Send a message via AIM to swingdjted Send a message via Yahoo to swingdjted
yeah, jerking off... sucks without all the lies and mud slinging.

Back rooms? Were you there? Were any journalists there? How could you claim to know what goes on otherwise? It's congress's job to review a bill and push it through or deny it. There's no rule saying the discussion has to stay private. Anyone actually showing up to work and doing their job can read a bill and blow the whistle, so your argument doesn't really prove much, except that maybe a congressperson could be too lazy to actually read before voting. There's no possible way to "sneak by" a bill if the congresspeople are doing their jobs.

C-Span covers more than anyone. To say it's incomplete is about the highest degree of hypocrisy one can have. They miss less than any other network. Meanwhile, opinion networks have tiny clips of actual governmental actions and hours upon hours of bullshit commentary. Think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you rather see what's real rather than some third party's spin on it?

Don't forget to live before you die.
swingdjted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2012, 22:00   #112
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
Look at deals Obama cut to make ACA happen. It even gave the commies at Frontline pause. None of this was on CSPAN. Watch this PBS special.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...amasdeal/view/

It isn't Republicans on this program telling PBS Obama bribed this through with 100's of millions of dollars in smelly deals. I'm in love with Karen Ignagni. She could probably sell water in a boat.

Obama promised a bipartisan health care bill, but no Republicans voted for it. And he had to bribe Democrats to get the votes to pass it. And then the public got pissed and fired the Democrats.

Quote:
"The process was messy, and so it turned people off," says Communications Director Pfeiffer. "It ended up being behind closed doors. It was filled with partisan wrangling, people yelling at each other across the table. We ended up having a process that represented a lot of what the American people hated about Washington."
That's the way I feel about it. You have Democrats telling you this was payday for special interests.

Quote:
"We're talking about almost 20 percent of our gross domestic product today, $2.5 trillion. Literally tens, hundreds of millions of dollars are spent on lobbying. Every special interest has their oar in the water." - Tom Daschle
And then there was the payola to the states. Vermont got $10BN. Louisiana got 300 million. Nebraska got free medicaid for all future people paid by the other 49 states. I could go on...

Last edited by rockouthippie; 9th December 2012 at 23:19.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2012, 01:18   #113
watadoo
JEDI MASTER
 
watadoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canyon, CA with a bunch of hippies
Posts: 1,336
You're right, Ted, C-span is the most flat out even reporting of fact,though some on the fringes will of course laughably label them a UN plot to destroy amurrica or something. I try to ingest info from all over board to discern fact from propaganda. Keeping anything Fox related off my radar screen as they are the network of lies and fact-denial. On every issues, every time. But other wise I listen to everything. I even tune in complete whack jobs like Mark Levin and Michael Wiener (savage) on my commute home from work. They're crazed, but once in a while they barf up a nugget of interest.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
watadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2012, 03:04   #114
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
I could say the same thing about Rachel Maddow. Rachel is really smart if the liberal bug up her ass isn't causing her extreme intestinal distress. Maybe she should get some of that Jamie Lee yogurt.

Quote:
Keeping anything Fox related off my radar screen
Fox can be the 700 Club some days, but claiming conservative media bias is preposterous. You've got the three commie networks and Fox.

Ted want's to send us all out for re-education so we can all think the correct way..the liberal Ted way.. No AM radio. We need to watch Ellen, Oprah, and Bill Maher while being duct taped to a chair.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2012, 15:37   #115
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
You guys all think I'm Rush Limbaugh and I'm not. Maybe I'm the biggest liberal of all. But I'm calling BULLSHIT. I'm the son of Dutch, Polish and German Catholics... democrats all... I am still a registered Democrat. I want to vote in the primaries. Maybe I can help clean out the trash.

I am the JFK, LBJ liberal from 1962. What most people would call a "Blue Dog". But what you have now is Pretenders! Create the poor and make a profit by it.

I call BULLSHIT. If you'd like me to go to the Whitehouse and call Barry a bullshit artist, get me an invite for a Bud Light.

Hey man... I'll tell ya... I'd love a world that was a little less brutal. I just think if you're gonna help the poor, the meek, or the disenfranchised.... you'd do it... instead of taking a check for bullshitting about it.

On paper, I'm probably the biggest liberal you ever met. I'm just saying BULLSHIT.

I'd be clapping my ass off if we came up with something like single payer for some basic "doc in a box" health care. I'd be tickled if 3 stitches in my hand didn't cost a months pay.

Now we're figuring that every American alive is gonna chock up a $300,000 medical bill before we check out. Double that if you're a gay man. Let's party and jump off a bridge when we're done.

Hey... I think we ought to do what is right instead of pretending to. That's Obama. That's Clinton. I voted for Romney. He's probably a BULLSHIT artist too. But I thought it was better to vote for someone who wore his heart on his sleeve.

You show up black, gay, or female, you've got anything I have. Want a beer? A coffee? Something to eat? But somehow... I'm your enemy? Oh no... I go to church... No not that.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2012, 16:58   #116
watadoo
JEDI MASTER
 
watadoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canyon, CA with a bunch of hippies
Posts: 1,336
On paper, I'm probably the biggest liberal you ever met.<<<

Based on the previous 10 years of your rantings, I'd have to say you're most likely blind drunk right now.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
watadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2012, 19:28   #117
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
No just tired of Bullshit artists like Barry Obama. I'd probably even like Barry if he was who he said he was. Champion of civil rights? I'm in. Affordable health care? I'm in too. Decent education? Call me blue. Gay? I don't know anyone who wasn't miserable, but WTF?

We didn't get all that stuff.... it was some evil Republican that stopped us... Bullshit.

What did we get from little B-ball Barry? A gay military... yay! What did we get from Clinton? A housing bubble that destroyed the economy... yay!

All that shit they said. How it was supposed to be easier to be born poor. We're further away from prosperity than any generation of Americans ever was.

You tell me. I'm supposed to wave a flag and think Obama is great because he quacks like a liberal duck. Not that he did a damn thing. Just that he quacks.

My medical care is too expensive. My college costs too much. And Barry says "Grab your ankles". Ted is there to educate us that getting the shaft is a good thing.... as long as you say something politically correct...

Clinton was gonna let us all buy a house.... and made housing more expensive than it ever was.... Obama is gonna help us with our health care.... the cost of insurance is up 9% per annum since he took office.

Holy shit Batman. How much more liberal "saving" can we take?

You guys could probably talk me into towing left. I'm just saying "Fuck me"... I'm further away from what anybody wanted than I ever was.

Gay marriage... fine... abortion on demand at the PP factory? Fine. But shit... where's the fucking beef? How about we really fix it instead of giving it lip service? I'd like everyone to get a shot at a decent life.

You want me to be a leftist? You got it. Just quit the bullshit.

If I had any faith in JFK's "Camelot" I lost it. We didn't go there. We paid a bunch of fucking pretenders. It's probably enough BULLSHIT that JFK, LBJ and MLK are rolling in their grave.

Holy shit. I should get drunk. You've expressed your liberal elitism enough, you Prius driving pimple... I'm waiting for decent. I didn't kill my kid. You did. For fucking convenience.

Maybe you should have a few drinks. Toast the baby you murdered. Babble something about women's rights.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 18th December 2012 at 20:59.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2012, 05:09   #118
watadoo
JEDI MASTER
 
watadoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canyon, CA with a bunch of hippies
Posts: 1,336
What are you talking about. who killed your kid? Did you even have a kid? You really are drunk, aren't you? And what's wrong with my Prius. I like getting 52 mpg from a 12 year old car when gas costs over $4 a gallon. Sorry if that offends you. BTW, I also own a 30 year old truck, too.

"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
watadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2012, 10:14   #119
rockouthippie
Banned
 
rockouthippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,002
You've admitted to an abortion in your posts. Should I cheer or pity you as a pitiful man? I am a stand up guy past your comprehension. I'm pissed because politically correct is the inverse of a man with real character. I am the genuine article. You are a flip out. If I thought you buying all this liberal bullshit helped you, I'd be on your side. But it only makes you pathetic.
rockouthippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2012, 07:29   #120
samoyi
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Must educated them....




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
contoh skripsi
samoyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump