Old 6th June 2002, 16:46   #81
chris_b_hall
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 7
Send a message via AIM to chris_b_hall
exactly

i agree with tri here. this is an open discussion over the highs and lows of operating systems. Not, your stupid cause you don't know how to spell class. If your gonna give a valid argument then make a post. If your gonna flame someone for typos or their opinion, then go somewhere else.
chris_b_hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2002, 18:26   #82
Gandalfawizard
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1
Quote:
nor could you put Linux or Windows on a Mac
You actually can put Linux on a Mac its called Yellowdog linux. And all these people saying linux crashes it's probably because you are using KDE or Gnome or something like that. Linux probably didn't really crash just KDE. The kernal is probably still running. If you are using pure command line it is pretty hard to mess something up unless you really know what you are doing or really trying to erase your root directory or something like that. Also why is this in the Breaking news category?
Gandalfawizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2002, 18:46   #83
chris_b_hall
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 7
Send a message via AIM to chris_b_hall
linux on a mac?

wow i did not know that. pretty interesting. i hadn't heard of that before. guess it makes sense though. since they are both UNIX based.
chris_b_hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2002, 19:04   #84
djd5000
Junior Member
 
djd5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 16
OK.
SO prehaps this is a bit off the point but any1 like DOS out there? Coz there is a gr8 version out there.
www.freedos.org
Well it might be looking into the past. But i came across this fantastic version when trying to setup a VMWare DOS game machine because unfortunatly with Win ME/2000/XP we can't play old versions of lemmings
anyway. Have a look!
djd5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2002, 08:03   #85
da pretenda
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: who lives on drewry lane?
Posts: 3
Send a message via ICQ to da pretenda
sorry to go a bit ot, but ...

Is there a light weight linux web server around that is freely available for download? If not, is there a place i can just go and download a base install of linux w/network support that i can install apache and a ftp server onto?



I believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. some people will love linux for what they need, but others think that MS windows does better. I personally run windows on all my desktop PCs, but run a linux firewall and PDC, mainly because of how rediculously priced MS server is these days.

Thanks. I'm happy now... Ive voiced my oppinion. i'll go away now ...

Matt

p.s., pleeze scuse the spellink, my english suxors (even tho it is my native language :P)
da pretenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2002, 13:55   #86
dazed1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
WTF People

Linux vs. Windows
STFU. Fucking lamers. Kudos to both OS's.

Newbie friendly?
Windows: Yes
Linux: No - Does this mean incompetence? No more young and naive.

If you Linux nuts can’t come up with anything better to point out other then “blue screens” get a life. Those are long and done with. If you so happen to have problems with it still buy some real hardware or learn your head from your ass.
Ah have to cut it short.. Oh well been fun. (I think)
dazed1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2002, 19:07   #87
slacker52
Senior Member
 
slacker52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: hickville
Posts: 396
Send a message via AIM to slacker52
once linux is ideot proof...goodbye windows
slacker52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2002, 21:28   #88
baafie
feminazi
(Major Dude)
 
baafie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,767
Re: WTF People

Quote:
Originally posted by dazed1
Linux vs. Windows
STFU. Fucking lamers. Kudos to both OS's.
Newbie friendly?
Windows: Yes
Linux: No - Does this mean incompetence? No more young and naive.
Who are you calling lamers? You are far more of a lamer than anyone posting on this thread.
We all use Windows, usually because we have trouble setting up Linux, or because everybody uses windows. Does that matter? Yes, Linux users don't pay much for their software..

I've tried Linux Mandrake once. The installer froze, so I rebooted and continued working with Windows. Does that make me incompetent, young or naive?

Oh, and mind your fucking language.
baafie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2002, 21:32   #89
Neko
Major Dude
 
Neko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mice!?
Posts: 1,197
yey baaf!
Neko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2002, 03:16   #90
slacker52
Senior Member
 
slacker52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: hickville
Posts: 396
Send a message via AIM to slacker52
linux vs windows

idiot proof
windows=virtualy
linux=ideots cant use it

partitions
windows=none
linux=minimum of 10 i heard

hardware support
windows=anything with a driver
linux=depends on the distribution

software package
windows=card games, freehand immage editor
linux=games up the ass, powerfull immage editor

crash rate
windows=often
linux=rarely

what happens when you shut down comp w\o shutting down OS?
windows=errors on hard disk
linux=slaughter hard disk

cost
windows=$$$$
linux=free iso or $$$$

feel free to add anything or kindly point out any errors i made
slacker52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2002, 19:44   #91
mikessites
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1
Linux is a better OS than Windows, but most people use windows because its what their used to, and because its widely used, computer shops install it on new PC's, so people get used to using Windows, so they only use windows, so windows gets more popular, so computer shops only install windows........now thats confusing.

Basicly the only reason that windows is the most widely used OS is because it is the most widley used, and will continue to be untill someone puts their brain in and decides to install Linux onto new computers, then Linux will increase in popularity (and compatability).

But, this day will never come because stupid computer shops will continue to keep the cycle going, so people will use Windows, so shops...... i'm not going there again.

I'm going to go away now because this confusion is making my head hurt, use Windows, install windows, so use Windows, so install Windows, so use Windows.............

NOW THATS A HEADACHE


Please excuse any spelling mistakes, my head hurts.
mikessites is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2002, 19:48   #92
rm'
Banned
 
rm''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,361
This thread is amusing... like watching a dog chase its tail.
rm' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2002, 03:12   #93
slacker52
Senior Member
 
slacker52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: hickville
Posts: 396
Send a message via AIM to slacker52
not sure if this was stated already but linux is a programers os for people that dont mind getting "their hands dirty", no "wizards" or anything to to make its use easy, so if people instal linux they wont know what the hell is going on
slacker52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2002, 07:55   #94
taris_kah
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Utah -- USA
Posts: 1
Send a message via ICQ to taris_kah Send a message via AIM to taris_kah Send a message via Yahoo to taris_kah
LINUX RULZ

Linux is far superior to windows in all ways! for one MS ripped of Mandrake8.x in WinXP with a few little features. Linux may not have all the best software (games) at the moment, but with WINE getting closer and closer that won't even matter! (for those of you who are not familiar WINE(WINE is not a emulator) is a windows layer which can run under linux allowing you to run any windows program inside linux! It is however still under development. When it comes right down to it... Evil MS is just hoggin' all the goods... The only reason that Linux isn't rampant right now is because all the morons out there who won't support it and are giving in to MS and their evil evil ways... For all of you who think that Linux is tough to configure and install and all that crap D/L Mandrake8.X!!! It's even easier to install than Windows! AND IT'S FREE!!! Of course I'm sure that 70% of you stole your versions of Windows anyway... Also what the freak kind of logo is a window? I mean come on! A Penguin! There is a true logo/mascot. Bottom line... if you're not liking Linux now, give it a few more months (especially when they bring it out for PS2) and you'll be regretting the day you even set eyes on anything MS... ick!

If you want to download your free copy of Linux follow the link.
http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3
taris_kah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2002, 11:16   #95
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Re: LINUX RULZ

Quote:
Originally posted by taris_kah
For all of you who think that Linux is tough to configure and install and all that crap D/L Mandrake8.X!!! It's even easier to install than Windows! AND IT'S FREE!!!
number of windows OSs successfully installed: 5
number of linuxes: 0

some people may say i'm bitter about linux never supporting my damn computer, but when the first option on the install is "Choose Installer Verbosity" (i know what it means, and i know that was an older version of mandrake, it's just a dumb way of saying something simple) you can tell it's not gonna be an easy install.

and oh yeah, it told me i'd have to download my modem drivers off the internet

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2002, 19:33   #96
slacker52
Senior Member
 
slacker52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: hickville
Posts: 396
Send a message via AIM to slacker52
one of my next os instals is gonna be red hat and\or winxp.
slacker52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2002, 08:43   #97
da pretenda
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: who lives on drewry lane?
Posts: 3
Send a message via ICQ to da pretenda
Number of linux installs completed: around 20 ... how many left standing? around 15 (the other 5 i have installed linux back over the top again )

Number of windows installs: literally about 100 ... not sure how many are standing, but it would be around 1/2 of them.

I like linux for its server-side apps and such, I have a linux box as my firewall and a linux box as my vpn, web, ftp, ms filesharing, domain controller, and hl server. but i have about 6 windows desktop pcs. (more like 16 on my network tho )

I like windows for its flexability in what it can do for the average user.

I personally think that each os has its place, each with its fair share of bugs and lock ups.


*/me poises for tha flames soon to come ... *
da pretenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2002, 20:16   #98
linux_pro
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1
Send a message via AIM to linux_pro
the only reason you morons dont like linux is because its "too hard to install. it takes long, and i dont know what to do." so shut up and go back to your little windows life, losers
. WINAMP KICKS ASS! Media player sucks
linux_pro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2002, 23:46   #99
Bilbo Baggins
Wind Chime of the Apocalypse
 
Bilbo Baggins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Forest
Posts: 17,229
Then go back to your linux life you linux loser
Bilbo Baggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2002, 17:15   #100
alien2k
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South West England (UK)
Posts: 12
jeez! i'd heard that some linux people can be a little 'overprotective' of linux, but this is plain stupid

i mean argue argue argue.
some windows people arent much better either.
jrr tolkien is probably turning in his grave

im a windows98 and linux user.
98 is unstable, but was written along time ago now. that and i insist on using almost every Object Desktop component on my humble pII 233. I use win98 because of od and the range of software. i actually have openoffice, mozilla and other opensource stuff on 98. i have about 4 crashes a day with 98.

my peanut linux distro is very stable, and enlightenment is just the most visually stunning window manager ive ever used. i did however have to compile my soundcard drivers from source, and thats not for the light hearted. kde starts quite slowly, and if i dont use kde as my wm then most kde apps take an age to start. when linux does crash, it seems to be sound related, or WINE.

my point is that both oses have their pros and cons as desktop oses, and you guys shouldnt use up nullsoft bandwidth arguing about it.
im 15 and linux was easy to learn for me, but i dont think you should expect it to be easy for everyone, and if people are happy using windows, dont try and force them into something else unless they want it.
alien2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2002, 20:26   #101
sub1zero
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 125
is this topic still up. too many nerds posting there little beefs about windows issues and linex issues i never heard the word "lamer" used so much before though i impressed all you little kids in here haven't used the word "gay" yet alothought i haven't looked very hard the only reson why linex is idiot proof is because anything an idiot would type in would be something linex would not understand so one thing i like to say to all you linex and windows uses is

Get out of your parents basements and get a freakin life!
sub1zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2002, 21:51   #102
Aeroe
Major Dude
 
Aeroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Assembly Hall
Posts: 1,446
Send a message via AIM to Aeroe
Quote:
Originally posted by sub1zero
though i impressed all you little kids in here haven't used the word "gay" yet



happy? and btw it's linux.
Aeroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2002, 20:13   #103
mattyday
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ursa Minor
Posts: 82
Re: My Ideas About OS's

Quote:
Originally posted by sKyZ
First off I'd like to say that windows programs can be ran in linux with a little time and effort using VMware or WINE [theres a few others that I don't feel like listing.] These programs will simulate or load windows so you can run just about any win32 program. [I'd like to see windows run some linux programs ]

...

This bringing me to another thing. There are _TONS_ of viruses written for windows. Linux does have some but not nearly as many. This making it more secure and safer to use. Windows is also full of exploits and other holes [Netbios, Netbus, Subseven, ILOVEYOU, IIS, \con\con just to name a few.]
Okay, first off... If you were so smart, then you'd know that there is a very functional version of VMWare for Win32 AND that there is a very functional package called 'cygwin' (www.cygwin.com) that is open source and allows you to compile *NIX apps in a Win32 environment by mapping unix calls to the Win32 libs etc. If that's not enough, mingw32 (spl?) also allows you to compile *NIX apps in Win32 without having to use the cygwin dlls. I for one have a working bash shell, sshd and even a (slightly unstable) version of KDE 2 on my PC. So it's nonsense to say that Linux is better than Windows because it can also run Windows apps. Almost all linux tools (even those like grep, emacs and vim) are available on Windows these days.

Secondly, how many patches has the linux kernel had this week? I'm sorry to say it, but Linux apps are always being patched for security reasons... It's just that people don't focus on them taht much.

If you wanna have a box with linux on, that's great! But what's the point in wasting your life using that OS when you can use Windows 2000 or XP and have a very stable system that will genreally run most tools you throw at it? I have a linux machine acting as a firewall/gateway on my network; I'd never use it as a workstation though -- what could I practically do with it other than run a dodgy and buggy desktop combination, with most of the features in beta/out dated states?

Just my rant... I love linux... it's the way of the future. however, today we're with Windows.
mattyday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2002, 20:52   #104
Aeroe
Major Dude
 
Aeroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Assembly Hall
Posts: 1,446
Send a message via AIM to Aeroe
exactly, i remember running mandrake's software manager and seeing nearly 30 updates. half were for security. there's more in total but those are just normal new versions.
~ 85% of people use windows, so every hole, exploit or bug is top news. a bit unfair from one angle to focus only on their problems. but i'm glad ms makes such announcements even with the flack they receive.


i may try mandrake v9.0, if i hear it has a better package manager (retrieves, updates dependencies) and is considerably faster. other "fast" distros like gentoo are way over my head. it's so close to the desktop and i'm rather surprised it took this long. they have thousands of very talented programmers contributing and they can't seem to make a friendly unix os for the common home user like what mac osx is. i'll give mac users that, and nothing else.
Aeroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2002, 19:56   #105
Cyrax9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 15
Windoze XP is the most lame and annoyig OS I've used in my life, I won't even install it on my home PC's, in fact I specifically had WinME insatlled on my last PC to avoid WinXP which is an eXPeriance, just an aweful one. I hate the new M$ OS's and the fact that if your HDD crashes in WinXP or WinME you're out of an OS is even worse.

XP dosen't have Blue-Screens? Than how come they always pop-up when I use XP?

I like Linux Because:

1. Open Source is free and I can save some cash that'd normally go to a bloated M$ OS.

2. I can code whatever I want into it like I used to do in MS-DOS, another dying art, much like Manual Transmitions on cars.

3. I can run *nix off of any Proccessor, be it an Intel P4, AMD Athlon, Sun SpaRk, PPC etc, etc.

4. The problem of little or no games is easily fixed with a 'doze emulator such as WINE or LINdows.

5. I can run MS-DOS software in programs like DOSEMU, Can anyone get old DOS games to run in WinXP?


The only people who don't use Linux are either:

1. Afraid
2. Lazy
3. M$ Employees

I'm already planning to build my next PC, if it come with XP I'm FDISKing the HDD and putting Linux on instead, if I buy each part on it's own, I'll install Linux from Scratch.

Oh, and I hope you M$ users like having Microsoft browse your Hard drive, maybe you should read about what's really behind thedre new "Palladium/Longhorn" Chip/OS which will render all current computers completley obsolete because M$ is making it so that a Palladium Machine can only "Talk" to another Palladium Machine and Non-Palladium Machines to Non-Palladium Machines. In addition they'll have acess to your HDD asnd will be able to serach it whenever they please.

All those in favor of having YOUR data not be controlled by YOU, but instead have M$ control it, please do nothing.

Y'know what, I used to like Windows, then M$ decided to put a new version out every year and right now I'm sick of Winblows and I'd rather be codign in GNU/Linux or RedHat Linux because I like to see my damn source code!
Cyrax9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2002, 21:08   #106
baafie
feminazi
(Major Dude)
 
baafie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,767
Quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax9
The only people who don't use Linux are either:

1. Afraid
2. Lazy
3. M$ Employees

Oh, and I hope you M$ users like having Microsoft browse your Hard drive, maybe you should read about what's really behind thedre new "Palladium/Longhorn" Chip/OS which will render all current computers completley obsolete because M$ is making it so that a Palladium Machine can only "Talk" to another Palladium Machine and Non-Palladium Machines to Non-Palladium Machines. In addition they'll have acess to your HDD asnd will be able to serach it whenever they please.
Since I'm not a Microsoft Employee, I'm either afraid or lazy. That's right. I'm afraid of losing programs that I became attached to. I'm afraid I won't be able to use winamp 3 for a long time. And no, I'm not going to use Wine or whatever crap emulator, because my computer is slow as it is already.
I've tried Linux. All of the installers I tried failed to do their job. Into the bin it is.

As soon as Microsoft start spying on me I will have no choice but to use Linux, though..
baafie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2002, 21:15   #107
mattyday
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ursa Minor
Posts: 82
My real issue is wondering the following:

A. Should we really respect anything said by someone with all the maturity to say "M$" and "Winblows" in a debate?
B. Why on earth would a die-hard linux fan use Winamp? XMMS is the clear choice for that platform, or if you're like me and prefer to work outside of X, then mpg123 is a nicer option.

XP always pops up blue screens for you? You must have issues using the operating system. I'd say it'd be far easier for a novice on linux to kill their machine by logging in as root than any administrator in Windows, so to say that Linux is crash proof to all users is simply not true. If you then start talking about not giving newbies root accounts on their own machines, the element of control is outside the user's hands, making your argument circular.

Open Source is a great idea, but unfortunately there are very few good examples of quality open source software at the moment. Mozilla is finally turning out quite nice, but people call that bloated! KDE is over-cluttered and Gnome still has consistency/usability issues (although this may be sorted once Gnome 2 is fully adopted). If you're talking outside the X window environment, I don't think that's for the average user is up for that (unless everyone fancies posting here using lynx/links, which I seriously doubt).

I'm glad you can run *nix of any processor. I only have one in this computer. If I had a PPC, I'd go for OSX and if I had a sparc I'd go for Solaris.

Don't get me wrong, Linux is coming along well - companies like Ximian and the Gnome foundation etc are really bringing the effort forward, along with the major and minor distributions.

I like to code, but 90% of hte web doesn't. They like to log on, be told they've got new email and click a big button that says 'INTERNET'. They're not bothered about being able to view the source code of their browser or edit their .plan with vi - so why claim that it's lame to use Windows?

Anyway, as for old DOS games, yes, you can. Heh. VDMSound anyone?

I hope you're having fun writing shell scripts in pico, or whatever it is you do while the rest of us get on with things.
mattyday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2002, 14:51   #108
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax9
1. Afraid
2. Lazy
3. M$ Employees
4. unsupported by buggy kernels.
5. happy with windows as it is, as it runs win32 apps far faster than a linux port.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2002, 04:31   #109
rm'
Banned
 
rm''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,361
6. I like chicken,
7. I like liver,
8. Meow mix,
9. Meow mix,
10. Please deliver.
rm' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th July 2002, 18:43   #110
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
indeed...

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th July 2002, 19:46   #111
Bilbo Baggins
Wind Chime of the Apocalypse
 
Bilbo Baggins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Forest
Posts: 17,229
Quote:
Windoze XP is the most lame and annoyig OS I've used in my life, I won't even install it on my home PC's
Anyone else notice the contradiction here?
Bilbo Baggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 06:45   #112
badkid32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4
Alright, look. I've got to say something for all the people who really don't know what win XP is. Windows XP has a completely re-designed kernel, not just a new interface. In fact, you can use the old 2k interface, and get the advantages of the new windows XP kernel. Also, Windows XP has drivers for almost all hardware, except for some older scanners and printers. Even with them, you can usually get a windows 2000 driver to work. Also, the only times I’ve needed to reboot my machine is when I install a new piece of hardware, or some updates that require me to reboot. One of you said that the bad rep that Microsoft has came from the win 9x line of operating systems. This is true. The 9x series was designed for home users who didn't need the world out of their computers, making the operating system cheaper. They use a different kernel than the win XP line of business operating systems. Keep in mind that I’m not trying to dog Linux, just trying to inform some of you about what windows really is.
badkid32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 08:28   #113
mattyday
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ursa Minor
Posts: 82
That's not strictly true. The Windows XP kernel is almost exactly the same as the Windows 2000 one. You can see this by clicking 'Start' -> 'Run' and typing 'winver'. Windows 2000 = NT 5.0, Windows XP = NT 5.1

Windows XP is the realisation of Microsoft's long-term dream of having Windows NT and Windows 9x merged together. Since Windows NT 4.0 it has been their hope, originally intended for Windows 2000, to combine the two technologies. Unfortunately, it was not possible in Win2k because it was the wrong time and too many programmes were still written with Windows 9x in mind.

Windows XP still does have significantly less hardware support than Windows 9x, mainly because Windows 9x is more popular than Windows 2k and XP hasn't been out for very long (XP and 2k share the same driver platform)

Windows 2k has some neat home computer features, such as alpha blending, DirectX and was less confusing to new computer users (i.e. an error was labelled as such and not called an 'Illegal operation'.)

So you're right partially, but Windows XP does not have a new kernel, nor is it a complete upgrade from Win2k... It's more or less Windows 2000 Pro + Terminal Services + usability enhancements.

Win2k for the masses :-)
mattyday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 13:11   #114
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
WinXP does have an awful lot better hardware setup support. 2k wan't designed to take a soundcard, graphics card, tv card, 2 network cards, a modem and 4 USB ports. It just can't hapily arrange them in the system without conflicts. Managing it by hand completly screws up the ACPI of the OS. XP can quite hapily manage all these things and get them all to work on DIFFERENT IRQ's something 2k could never do.

Linux really needs more hardware support out of the box and a facility to switch it between 'n00b mode' and 'advanced mode'. I tried to setup my modem on Mandrake the other week, it asked me what protocal my ISP used, PAP, CHAP, PAP/CHAP, POP, I mean how the hell should I know? I want to give it the number to call, the username and the password and get on the net. I then couldn't play any videos for some reason. My soundcard isn't supported by default so I have to somehow download those drivers and compile them into the kernal, with no modem. Linux also needs NTFS support to be of any use to me. That's what all my other partitions use as it the best file system for windows. What it also means is that (If i could get my modem and soundcard working) I wouldn't be able to read any of my MP3's, something I can't live without.

These are the things that I don't want to have to do as an end user. If was running a server things would be different. I'd install it and set up the webserver, the network cards would work and I'd turn the monitor off for 6 months until it crashes.

Linux is getting close to being friendly to use but it still has a heck of a long way to go to be anywhere near as easy as XP. You have to remember that a lot of people who use OS's have trouble working out the difference between cutting and pasting. They don't understand why you have to install and uninstall a program. They don't understand why the files that print garbage (binary files) in notepad are relevent and shouldn't be deleted. That is the kind of stupidity an OS has to be able to cope with and cater for. Not your thechnology savy teenage boys who program, run websites and like mountain dew more than is healty.

11. Offle? For din dins?

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 15:32   #115
mattyday
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ursa Minor
Posts: 82
Two things really, to say 2k was not designed to hold lots of hardware, such as two network cards is like saying Apache wasn't designed to host websites. Win2k was designed to beautifully manage network cards, if you use WinNT 4.0 (or even Win9x) to set up multiple network cards you'll see how painless the 2k process is.

The only real upgrade in XP's hardware support is the ability to rollback drivers and use system restore. System restore, for me, is a waste of resources and I haven't yet had to rollback the driver. The only reason I use XP over 2k is the improved explorer view modes, faster startup time and nicer interface.

As for Linux NTFS support, it already has it. Download the kernel source (if you don't already have it) and type 'make xconfig' (or 'make menuconfig' if in a shell), go to "file systems" and change "NTFS Support" from "none" to "module". 'make dep clean modules modules_install; modprobe ntfs' and you're done. To mount the drive just 'mount -t ntfs /dev/hdb1 /mnt/windows' (for example). Then you have read-only NTFS support :-)

^ that is really a good reason why Linux isn't for the masses... Your card doesn't work? No problem - just learn how to optimise and compile C++ code! Hardly user friendly...
mattyday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 17:19   #116
badkid32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4
Actually, you are quite wrong when it comes to the win xp driver database. Windows XP has many more drivers than 2k did, and I know this because I use my win xp machine to find out what old hardware is at work (usualy when reloading a clients machine) so that I can go and find drivers for it. Heh, a driver export command would be nice. Anyways, I tried this with my 2000pro machine, and it didn't have drivers for most of the stuff that was over 3 years old. You say you have never had to use the Driver Rollback feature? That's a good thing. I've had to use it a couple of times, and I must say that I love it. It saved me hours of downloading 4gb of mp3's, before I had my partitions setup. Even with a cable modem, that's still a long time. Yes, you are right that win xp doesn't have a compleatly re-designed kernal. It was actually compiled from the 9x, 2000, and NT kernels. But, there are parts of it that are new, such as the shared .dll file support, and also the protected system file support. As someone said above, users can't figure out why that .ini file is so usefull, because you can't read it. One of my clients found their way into the registry one day, and fixed all the spelling, grammer, and puntuation errors. He called me the next day asking me to fix his computer because it wouldn't boot. These are the kinds of people that software companies have to watch out for, and the reason for a few of the new things in XP. Oh, and you are right about the dual nics in 2000 pro, and server. They are quite easy to setup, and use, but it was also designed for that. When they were designing 2000 pro, they were also thinking about 2000 server, and with that in mind, they added features such as that, so that they would be supported in 2000 server. Myself, I'm waiting for .net server to come out.
badkid32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 17:52   #117
mattyday
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ursa Minor
Posts: 82
When I say driver support, I do not mean what the product ships with. OBVIOUSLY Windows 2000 isn't going to support bleeding edge peripherals as it was released a few days in to the year 2000! However, it is easy to get hold of drivers for 2k if XP drivers are available as tehy are almost always the same.

How would driver rollback help save time download MP3's? As far as I am aware, driver rollback enables you to undo a driver upgrade or change; not sure how that's related to MP3's...

The kernel design of Windows XP is such that it is really just the Windows 2000 kernel with a compatibility layer (of which there was rudimentary support in Windows 2000 anyway).

Shared dll support??? That was put in Windows since the year dot. Microsoft implemented it to save disk space. However, with the advent of cheap mass storage devices, dll's actually cause more problems than they solve. Windows 2000, ME and XP all protect DLL's by fooling applications about their locations etc. It was not a Windows XP addition. I'm not sure what you mean by protected file system support, as that is the Microsoftian name of the dll protection (or at least part of it). That was also new in 2000, not XP.

The real additions aren't features like that in XP, they are the terminal services (even on Home edition, as it allows multiple logins), improved visuals, better usability (such as the explorer layout options) and improved plug and play/pray support (the nice baloons that tell you when hardware is being installed ). There is precious few under-the-hood changes that made Windows 2000 so significant, especially if (the annoying) system restore is disabled.
mattyday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 19:16   #118
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
the driver database for 2k and XP are near-identical... they use pretty much the same drivers (2k will just read over the XP-only stuff, it's all very "plug-in")... the only reason that XP ships with more drivers is that the driver database is constantly updated, and XP is newer...

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 21:12   #119
badkid32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4
A couple things. The shared dll support is not how you think it is. What I mean by that is this: In windows XP you cannot remove a shared DLL, and if you somehow do, it will replace it with a good copy. Also, the system file protection is this: If a system file gets deleated, windows will automatily replace the file. (I belive they had a verson of this in 2000 also, but i could be wrong)Also, about the mp3 thing. What i meant by that is if wouldn't have been able to roll back the failed driver, i would have had to format my hard drive and reload windows, there by loosing all my mp3's.
Anyways, yeah. If you don't like xp, thats fine. I'm not trying to convert you, lol. I just wanted to point out some things.
badkid32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2002, 22:09   #120
mattyday
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ursa Minor
Posts: 82
I'm using XP to type all of these messages (except one, I used Linux/Gnome to do that one) so I don't need converting. Win2k also ahd those file protection features though ;-). I'm not sure it's called shared dll support however.
mattyday is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump