Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th September 2002, 20:18   #81
whiteflip
Post Master General
(Forum King)
 
whiteflip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Seattle, Now Las Vegas
Posts: 6,032
reading the article

virulent this is my take on it - any computer written code is hand typed text. free speach. kinda like writting a book or singing a song. some one wrote something code like and its free speach.

I'm Back?
whiteflip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2002, 20:53   #82
virulent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 137
Send a message via AIM to virulent
Hm. So as long as its typed, you can do what ever you want? That doesn't seem quite right. The difference as I see it is that text is text. It does nothing. The only way text, or even speech can be harmful is of someone physically reacts to what you've writen/said. In the case of a program, while yes you've typed it, it preforms an action. It does something other than just being a code, like a song. While a song might be offensive to some, its not going to crack protection and allow people to illegally access information. I think saying that having a law about the type of software you can write, specifically ones that allow for illegal activities to take place, is violating free speech is stretching it a bit.

If you were told that you could not say "I cracked Windows XP" under penalty of law, then you'd have a valid claim. Hell, laws like that already exist about the president and government. I remember a few years back a local DJ here in Orlando (Jim Philips, 104.1) was investigated by the secret service for comments he made about the government on the air.

Freedom is a joke, really. We'll "allowed" to do things that the government is able to control. We're given a false sense of security because we think we can do as we please. This isn't the case and how this "p2p" thing is being handled is direct evidence of that. This is beyond their control. If they don't do something *now* and make it *drastic* it will be *completly* out of their control. The US is, and always has been, good at bullying people. That is what the FBI/CIA is for.
virulent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2002, 21:04   #83
apollos
Forum King
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canterbury & Plymouth
Posts: 4,176
Hmm, whilst reading all of Neko's post I kept thinking to myself, Umbrella Corperation from Resident Evil.

Microsoft started off as a 'respectable' firm but soon developed into a bigheaded and greedy corperation.

I truelly believe that Microsoft WILL NOT be around for much longer.
With all the stunts that they are starting to pull off (eg, them being able to access your pc when you install service pack 1 of XP).

Microsoft will anger the people and lets face it, Microsoft can't pull in the crowds for much longer. A new OS is bound to come out soon that will replace Windows.

I do however find it hard to believe that Microsoft would so such a thing as to be able to be able to nose at eveyones files and be able to block and edit anything they felt was 'undesirable' or whatever in their opinion.

Shame on Bill Gates.
End of rant which is late by a few weeks no doubt
apollos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2002, 23:00   #84
Atmo
The Freak
(Forum King)
 
Atmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 9,400
Quote:
Originally posted by Apollos
I truelly believe that Microsoft WILL NOT be around for much longer.
With all the stunts that they are starting to pull off (eg, them being able to access your pc when you install service pack 1 of XP).

Microsoft will anger the people and lets face it, Microsoft can't pull in the crowds for much longer. A new OS is bound to come out soon that will replace Windows.
Wrong.

90% of pc users have no idea whats actually going on with their pc's. They turn them on and as long as they work theyre happy.

Since most actually buy their pc with windows pre-installed from a store, they dont even bother reading the fine print. For the majority of users paladium wouldnt matter, they dont use any software that wasnt packaged with their pc when they first bought it, dont upgrade hardware, and most certainly dont use warzed or illegal copies of anything.

Just remember that microsoft must build software that suits the average pc user, not the elite. If windows was built for the elite user it would be linux.

Microsoft are a huge corporation because they actually make good products, their software is far from perfect sometimes, but its a helluva lot better than most. While it is true that they spend a shitload lot of money trying to stop people moving to other operating systems, the main reason that they are successful is because they have managed to make pc's usable by anyone.

They may be greedy, but thats not the point here, and there have been os' available as an alternative to windows for a long time. We use windows because of the way it makes interfacing with a pc easier, we like the plug and play, we like that there is little need to ever go to the command line, we like that 99% of software made is available in a windows version.
Atmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2002, 23:30   #85
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by virulent
I have to question this. Not because I disagree, but because Im having a hard time with understanding it.

How is me sending you a file that was designed to do one thing and one thing only, which happens to be illegal, protected by free speech? How is sending binary data over the internet speech? Granted I could really give a flip if someone doesn't get my $20 for a DVD, but I question how providing tools to crack a DVD's copy protection can be protected by anything at all.

What I'm mostly concerned about is embeding copy protection in normal audio cds because in doing so, you render things like personal mp3 devices obsolete - and not only that, illegal. I'll fight to see that I can use my legally purchased cd in what ever manner I wish, which breaks no laws.
I'll give you an example.

DeCSS - This is a tool that breaks the encryption used in DVDs. This obviously has the primary purpose of circumventing a copyright protection. Now, the problem is this: it also has the purpose of allowing free/open source DVD players to be built.

I'll take the example of Linux - people who use Linux normally expect open source, free software to be created for it - that's the Linux way of doing things, for the most part. However, you can't have an open source, free project, if you are required to license the encryption.

Now, why is it free speech? Ok, *maybe* the compiled code isn't (I don't feel like showing that point right now) . But the source is. The source is simply a technical language used by programmers to communicate a series of steps. And what if I send you an image of the source (a real image, as in a picture)? And what if I memorize the code? Do I now have *illegal knowledge*?

Now, as for the CDs - what if there was such a thing as a portable DVD player (one which has a 360 GB Hard drive - enough for about 70 DVDs)? You couldn't legally transfer DVDs onto it, as you would be "circumventing a copyright protection". There's the problem. What you probably don't get is that CDs (music) are pretty much the only format which isn't encrypted. Ebooks, DVDs, (most) games, and even some music now has copy protection. AND YOU CANNOT LEGALLY COPY IT, even though it is allowed under fair use.

See my point?

Music is next.


Quote:
Originally posted by virulent
Hm. So as long as its typed, you can do what ever you want? That doesn't seem quite right. The difference as I see it is that text is text. It does nothing. The only way text, or even speech can be harmful is of someone physically reacts to what you've writen/said. In the case of a program, while yes you've typed it, it preforms an action. It does something other than just being a code, like a song. While a song might be offensive to some, its not going to crack protection and allow people to illegally access information. I think saying that having a law about the type of software you can write, specifically ones that allow for illegal activities to take place, is violating free speech is stretching it a bit.
No. There is a *huge* gap there. Think of a virus. It, unlike most programs, does what it does, without even the permission of the user. But still, the *source* is speech. The *source* doesn't do anything. However, with things such as DeCSS, or other programs the DMCA stops, the program doesn't do anything by itself anyway. The person HAS TO RUN IT. The software doesn't DO anything, on it's own. If you publish a book on how to break into cars, should that be illegal?

There is the TOOL (say, a lock pick, or a computer), and there is data (lock picking skills / software).

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2002, 14:49   #86
mc^^^^
Forum King
 
mc^^^^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Perth, Australia MSN: mcbriar@ii.net Posts: All your posts are belong to me!!!!
Posts: 2,608
if this isnt the BIGGEST MONOPOLY attempt i have ever seen i will be amazed!

1. lets look at that sweet old privacy act, how are they planning to get around that now?

2. this is gonna force the internet back 8 years, when it was PURELY information purposes.

3. of course, hacking would be possible, but friggin hard to hack & then to install the hacks.

4. they would have to release a corperate version, which excludes all the CRAP, which we will all happily download

i currently want to punch Bill Gates in the face, just to piss him off for making me read that load of shit.

mc^^^^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2002, 07:45   #87
Kazuko
Member
 
Kazuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In this chair. and that bed over there...and in front of that fridge down there.
Posts: 57
Send a message via AIM to Kazuko
Positive this has been iterated in this thread before, but:

What the fuq is the reason to buy the stuff? It's like walking up to the counter at your local CompUSA, Staples, or independent CPU shop and being like "Hi. I'd like to give up all my remaining freedoms. How much will that cost?" Come on... I have a 1.4 GHz Athlon with 256 MB DDRAM.. it suits me perfectly fine AND I can run UT2K3... Unless I want to become a shut-in like the EverAddicts (who wouldn't prolly think twice about getting WinBigBro (or whatever it is)), I'm stickin with my current mobo, and saying "I AM A PRIVATE CITIZEN!!"

Just imagine Bill Gates watching you watching porn... nasty...
Kazuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2002, 16:08   #88
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by mc^^^^


3. of course, hacking would be possible, but friggin hard to hack & then to install the hacks.

4. they would have to release a corperate version, which excludes all the CRAP, which we will all happily download
Yup. That's what I'm saying - corperate IT guys would be pissed, and there is no way that non-palladium machines wouldn't be able to talk to normal machines, as all the corperate machines would be non-palladium, and so would the web servers. If you need a lot of power, you can just go with a RISC type processor (or whatever), and if you don't, then you can use a non-palladium PC. The web server area will *never* be dominated by Palladium.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2002, 09:16   #89
Caleb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In The Llama's Ass
Posts: 364
i got a petition going on here: http://www.petitiononline.com/tcpa1

its more of a "spread the word" thing.

The Palladium can be hacked, and will be. but ur missing the point.
If software requires it, the software will not work (cough next windows OS cough).

And Linux users wont get too far either. Coz there's been some talking and some companies want to 'slip' palladium in linux too!
(but since linux is open source its much easier.. on us and on them)

Palladium is already going to be implemented in Intel's next 3ghz proccessor. they called that palldium chip LaGrande or something (look@theinquirer), so im not gonna buy any intel chips any time soon :P

As i recall, intel did not want to implement palladium at first, but then something happened, and they did ;S

We (the people) gotta do something before this becomes one of these sci-fi movies about the world being surrounded by hackers and police arresting everybody who encodes an mp3 :P

Currenly Working on: WA3 Scripting/XML IDE
Caleb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2002, 10:34   #90
whiteflip
Post Master General
(Forum King)
 
whiteflip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Seattle, Now Las Vegas
Posts: 6,032
what happened to intel that changed their minds?!?

cough cough M$ cough cough

2.8Ghz is fast for me. The hardware out today is great for my needs. its Better than what I need. I dont need to upgrade to the new systems. I FEAR That the average Kevin Baker or Jo Schmoe will buy it without knowing what they are getting into.

I'm Back?
whiteflip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2002, 11:03   #91
Player 1
Registered User
 
Player 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 90
Send a message via ICQ to Player 1 Send a message via AIM to Player 1 Send a message via Yahoo to Player 1
It could be possible to emulate such a system...
Player 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2002, 11:56   #92
whiteflip
Post Master General
(Forum King)
 
whiteflip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Seattle, Now Las Vegas
Posts: 6,032
Quote:
Originally posted by Player 1
It could be possible to emulate such a system...
system preformance and hardware conflicts would be to great

I'm Back?
whiteflip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2002, 12:09   #93
Swishy
Junior Member
 
Swishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3
Send a message via AIM to Swishy
Well now wait a minute. While I agree what was described is truly scare, has anyone bother to verify all of this? Some of the information about the DMCA and other areas of the "encyption" are highly questionable.

I'm just saying let's not panic over a dissemenation of information with no sources. Just because it sounds frightening does not mean it's all true.

Swishy
Swishy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2002, 18:30   #94
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by Swishy
Well now wait a minute. While I agree what was described is truly scare, has anyone bother to verify all of this? Some of the information about the DMCA and other areas of the "encyption" are highly questionable.

I'm just saying let's not panic over a dissemenation of information with no sources. Just because it sounds frightening does not mean it's all true.

Swishy
Ask, and you shall recieve. What's questionable? First, www.anti-dmca.org is a great start for anything about the DMCA. What is it exactly that you find questionable? I'll back it up with external refrences, or, if I was wrong, I'll admit it.

But you are right. No, you shouldn't panic just becuase of reading this board. That's true. Go and find out for yourself - or ask for refrences. But don't say "some of this is questionable" - and cast doubt on the whole thing. Tell me exactly what you think is opinion, or "questionable", and I'll back it up.

(I'm acting defencive here, because if I recall correctly, I was the only one talking about the DMCA or encryption)

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2002, 18:33   #95
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by Player 1
It could be possible to emulate such a system...
Technically ... Maybe

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2002, 16:03   #96
e1x5x
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: new jersey
Posts: 2
Send a message via AIM to e1x5x Send a message via Yahoo to e1x5x
/me trys to get as many back up pc parts as possible so he is ready for the palladium invasion..

palladium = pretty much end of privacy

fuck palladium.
e1x5x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2002, 11:45   #97
binary hero
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,004
Send a message via ICQ to binary hero
they will be tied up in legal battles for the next 200 years anyway.

(btw e1x5x, your sig is far too big)
binary hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2002, 09:25   #98
Kazuko
Member
 
Kazuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In this chair. and that bed over there...and in front of that fridge down there.
Posts: 57
Send a message via AIM to Kazuko
200 years BillG will prolly be alive.. his properties generate profit that of the GNP of a handful of medium-sized countries. He could pay to keep his geeky ass on life support and not move a muscle for the next two thousand years. I think that when Linux has more of a user base (when more games come out Penguin-Friendly) I think they will r0x0r MS and billG will unplug himself. Besides, there's only so far you can go till someone assassinates you, right? I mean, JFK was blamm'd right next to his entourage. Why can't BillG get killed? Is he immortal? Or does he only think so?
Kazuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2002, 09:27   #99
Kazuko
Member
 
Kazuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In this chair. and that bed over there...and in front of that fridge down there.
Posts: 57
Send a message via AIM to Kazuko
Aw shee-it son, wait till Congress finds out we have a Constitution.. aw shee-it son, aw shee-it..
Kazuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2002, 09:37   #100
binary hero
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,004
Send a message via ICQ to binary hero
Quote:
Originally posted by Kazuko
200 years BillG will prolly be alive.. his properties generate profit that of the GNP of a handful of medium-sized countries. He could pay to keep his geeky ass on life support and not move a muscle for the next two thousand years. I think that when Linux has more of a user base (when more games come out Penguin-Friendly) I think they will r0x0r MS and billG will unplug himself. Besides, there's only so far you can go till someone assassinates you, right? I mean, JFK was blamm'd right next to his entourage. Why can't BillG get killed? Is he immortal? Or does he only think so?
he may well still be alive(O.o), but, and this may sound a bit selfish, i won't.
binary hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2002, 19:31   #101
Kazuko
Member
 
Kazuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In this chair. and that bed over there...and in front of that fridge down there.
Posts: 57
Send a message via AIM to Kazuko
Nah, by then we'd prolly all be part of some huuge project of his, we'd all be part of one big ass computer.. all weird and shit. IF he gets his way, that is. IF.
Kazuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2002, 00:50   #102
HyperHacker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Good question, where am I?
Posts: 42
Send a message via AIM to HyperHacker
Oh god

No. NO. NO!
Do you people not realize how serious this is? If this happens M$ will take over the internet, then every computer in the world. At the same time everything is expanding to computers. 99% of critical company info is stored on them. M$ will be able to control this information, and slowly but surely...
THE WORLD!!!
Do you want to be run by Gates?
Everyone's saying "Oh just buy an ARM processor, use Linux, stick to old computers, etc." Do you not realize the flaws in these plans? Read the first post again. Any computers without this will not be able to communicate with computers that do have it - they won't have the proper security clearances. Yes, M$ said it would be optional. And we're just gonna believe them? HELL NO! We're talking about the people who've been using illegal methods to stay on top for years. People who make crap a standard. People who said Windows ME was bug free and just wasn't being used properly!
To add to that, most OSs require internet activity at some point - and if you don't have one of these evil chips that won't be possible. M$ will bribe people running servers to use this stuff.
Sticking with old computers won't work. Eventually they'll be totally obsolete and useless ala Commodore 64. You couldn't possibly use one of those as your main computer today. And eventually it'll break. Sooner or later you'll have to upgrade and then you'll be stuck with one of these too.

I am gonna tell everyone about this. And if it actually does happen, I (and surely thousands of others) will kill them all. Burn the place. I ain't kidding.
HyperHacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2002, 11:38   #103
BDA7DD
Senior Member
 
BDA7DD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada, eh?
Posts: 185
Send a message via ICQ to BDA7DD Send a message via AIM to BDA7DD Send a message via Yahoo to BDA7DD
rm': I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments. Considering the sources, this sounds like a crock of shit to me.

Neko (and everyone else in agreement with him): Perhaps you should invest in one of these .
BDA7DD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2002, 17:59   #104
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Re: Oh god

Quote:
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Do you people not realize how serious this is? If this happens M$ will take over the internet, then every computer in the world. At the same time everything is expanding to computers.
Ahem. Microsoft, in order to have the power to do something this, would need to have dominance in the server market. It does not. Actually, most web servers run Apache. Yes, there is a Windows version of Apache. But that's not the point. Microsoft has NEVER had dominance in the server market. And never will, not with the current line of products anyway.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2002, 19:08   #105
Kazuko
Member
 
Kazuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In this chair. and that bed over there...and in front of that fridge down there.
Posts: 57
Send a message via AIM to Kazuko
actually, it's not MS who is the culprit on the server end... DMR (the coding that will be included IN THE PROCESSOR) is what kills the net. Of course, you can turn it off, however, DMR keeps "unauthorized" programs from running on a PC. Chances are the servers will have this activated. Windows merely acts as a GUI for the DMR settings.
As long as servers have AMD and Intel processors, they will have DMR in the system (starting soon) and therefore, be tainted.
Kazuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2002, 21:35   #106
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by Kazuko
actually, it's not MS who is the culprit on the server end... DMR (the coding that will be included IN THE PROCESSOR) is what kills the net. Of course, you can turn it off, however, DMR keeps "unauthorized" programs from running on a PC. Chances are the servers will have this activated. Windows merely acts as a GUI for the DMR settings.
As long as servers have AMD and Intel processors, they will have DMR in the system (starting soon) and therefore, be tainted.
You are partially correct, my friend. The DMR *must* interface with the OS - there is no way the driver for every piece of hardware necessary to do the functions of "Palladium" will be encoded in a CPU. Also, Intel and AMD have NOT said "we will produce ONLY DMR chips" - they said "we will produce them" - NOT necessarily to the exclusion of non-compliant chips. Again, what makes you think AMD or Intel have dominant positions in the server world? RISC, or other, processors are much more common.

If you're running Linux (which will include DMR support, eventually), then don't worry, a patch will be included with Linux (well, not officially) (or will be able to be downloaded - the DMCA doesn't reach that far) to do a 'software bypass' - totally reasonable, the encryption key will be the only real roadblock. And I'm sure a few sysadmins running large processor clusters won't mind using some spare cycles


Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I read all about this - perhaps I'm mistaken).

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2002, 09:09   #107
BDA7DD
Senior Member
 
BDA7DD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada, eh?
Posts: 185
Send a message via ICQ to BDA7DD Send a message via AIM to BDA7DD Send a message via Yahoo to BDA7DD
Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
Linux (which will include DMR support, eventually)
Oh, I doubt that. The Linux community will never, EVER stand for this shit. Not one fucking chance. It'll be a very cold day in Hell when the open-source community sides with their archrivals, the opressive monopolistic corporations. This just ain't happening, man. I'd bet my balls on that.
BDA7DD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2002, 17:52   #108
Tac-Man
Senior Member
 
Tac-Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: @ ®ø©#꧆¢®, Ñ¥
Posts: 279
Send a message via AIM to Tac-Man
well dammitall, this sucks. I should get a lab so I can manufacture my own chips and stuff. I'm not talkin top of the line stuff, but its not too hard to make something like a pentium class processor. that or I am gonna start buying up cyrix and VIA cpus. long live competition .
Tac-Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2002, 21:53   #109
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by BDA7DD


Oh, I doubt that. The Linux community will never, EVER stand for this shit. Not one fucking chance. It'll be a very cold day in Hell when the open-source community sides with their archrivals, the opressive monopolistic corporations. This just ain't happening, man. I'd bet my balls on that.
Let me clarify. DRM? No. TCPA? Yes. Same thing? Kind of. A TCPA-enabled computer would be capable of DRM, in theory. TCPA will definately be supported by Linux, if it gains any kind of momentum. But that won't be bad.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2002, 06:03   #110
BDA7DD
Senior Member
 
BDA7DD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada, eh?
Posts: 185
Send a message via ICQ to BDA7DD Send a message via AIM to BDA7DD Send a message via Yahoo to BDA7DD
You know what? You're an idiot. It's a fucking piece of hardware. And how do we get hardware to work, kiddies? That's right, we use software to interface with it!

Palladium will be able to interface with the DRM and encryption features of these proposed TCPA-compliant processors and motherboard chips because the SOFTWARE includes the features to interface with the HARDWARE. Linux will only be able to interface with these features IF a new Linux kernel is compiled to do so, and even if that happens, people will just be stripping that module from the kernel at the first chance they get and posting it on the tinfoil hat wearer's Internet haven known as Slashdot.

If you don't use the TCPA features of the processor, that won't cripple your system or make it unusable. The TCPA features will be independant from the rest of the processor, just like every other feature of processors today are independant from one another. For example, to take advantage of the 3DNow! features in the latest AMD processors, usually you need to install the drivers for it.

If you run Linux on a TCPA-complaint processor, as long as there aren't any TCPA-enabling modules compiled into the kernel, your system won't even know those features exist on your processor or anywhere else on your system for that matter. Linux will treat them as if they're not even there.

Again, the hardware has no way in telling whether or not it's even active, let alone what operating system you're running. The hardware is dependant on the software. A piece of hardware can't do anything without its accompanying software. Unless some software specifically detects the TCPA features on the processor and specifically requests the processor's TCPA features to do what they are designed to do, the TCPA features will just lay dormant doing absolutely nothing while the rest of the processor keeps chugging along and crunching numbers like it always has been.
BDA7DD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2002, 06:23   #111
Kazuko
Member
 
Kazuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In this chair. and that bed over there...and in front of that fridge down there.
Posts: 57
Send a message via AIM to Kazuko
No. They are talking about the on-board routines of the processor. Say a processor is DMR-active. It leaves a watermark on every bit of data that it transmits. Not done by windows, but as a function of the processor itself. This watermark is said to be computer specific and unduplicable. Now, when you send your watermaked data over the net, the receiving computer has SOFTWARE that recognizes the watermark, and it is the software that deems the data as worthy or unworthy (for lack of better terms) to run on their system. Example:
You're surfing the web.
You don't have a DMR processor.
You come across a link to a "really kick-ass" site.
You click the link.
Your CPU sends a request packet to the server for the site.
If the server is running Palladium (or the like), it practically ignores the request, because it is not watermarked.
THAT is the problem.
Kazuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2002, 08:36   #112
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
Quote:
Originally posted by Kazuko
If the server is running Palladium (or the like)

MS and intel have a tiny share of the server market. It's the companies that make 1u servers for webservers and dns that have control here. If MS and Intel go ahead with this, the people who make the decisions on what hardware and s/w to run, the people who know what they're doing and what's best for them, will never go for the wintel option. They'll bung Unix or linux on a blade or 1u server and keep the net as it was intended to be.

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2002, 21:17   #113
whiteflip
Post Master General
(Forum King)
 
whiteflip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Seattle, Now Las Vegas
Posts: 6,032
mmm kernels are yummy

if pladium is realized will some one tell me how to strip that module off of the kernel. ive never hacked the linux kernel before and have no clue how to do it...

I'm Back?
whiteflip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2002, 21:27   #114
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
Quote:
Originally posted by BDA7DD
You know what? You're an idiot. It's a fucking piece of hardware. And how do we get hardware to work, kiddies? That's right, we use software to interface with it!
I'm going to have to hurt you for your stupidity hurting my brain. Yes, I know there are no nerve endings in the brain. But trust me, it's possible.

Yes, in order to get hardware to work, you have to have software to use it. However, this cannot be any random string of 1s and 0s. It has to be in a specific format. Saying that you can just *ignore* a piece of hardware like this to avoid it is total stupidity. It's like saying you can get into a network via ignoring the firewall. Or that you can get into a building by ignoring the door.

WRONG.

Sure, you can ignore the door. But your head is gonna be hurting in a sec, and you won't get in the building. A current processor is like a door. You have to have certain specifications, but as long as those are met, you can get through. A TCPA enabled computer would be like a door with a lock. Not only do you have to fit through the door, but you also have to have the key.

But this is all somewhat moot - there simply arn't going to be enough servers with TCPA compliant hardware.

As for your 3DNow! analogy, 3DNow! is an EXENTION, not a CHANGE. It was intended to not work differently if you didn't use the new intstructions.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2002, 02:56   #115
fredowl87
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 6
Send a message via AIM to fredowl87
look everyone-

we all hate palladium. we have to assume the worst, too. i think what we need to do now is simply tell people how terrible this os is, and get people to use linux.

one thing that i find encouraging is that walmart now sells pcs that are preloaded with lindows!!!! and they are a lot less expensive cause windows aint on it.
fredowl87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2002, 03:49   #116
whiteflip
Post Master General
(Forum King)
 
whiteflip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Seattle, Now Las Vegas
Posts: 6,032
Quote:
Originally posted by fredowl87
one thing that i find encouraging is that walmart now sells pcs that are preloaded with lindows!!!! and they are a lot less expensive cause windows aint on it.
yeah just download/crack windows and install it over lindows

I'm Back?
whiteflip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2002, 06:19   #117
Kazuko
Member
 
Kazuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In this chair. and that bed over there...and in front of that fridge down there.
Posts: 57
Send a message via AIM to Kazuko
10 bucks says BillG files lawsuit.I mean, why wouldn't he, he's a sanctimonious bastard, AND he's a gold digger.
Kazuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2002, 12:58   #118
virulent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 137
Send a message via AIM to virulent
Quote:
Originally posted by whiteflip

yeah just download/crack windows and install it over lindows
I'd have to agree with you there. I'd rather people that have never used linux before reformat and install something they know on it. All Lindows is is someone taking KDE and making it look like WinXP. All thats going to do is lead to confusion and the idea that "Linux sucks" because they can't make it work like Windows, even though they look almost identical.

Its just a really *bad* idea. If you want to learn linux, you need to realise that you're learning an entirely new way of doing things. You're going to learn about hardware and how your computer really works, rather than being walked through everything. Some like that, some don't.. but *tricking* someone into buying a computer that *looks* like something they understand is a bad idea.
virulent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2002, 15:22   #119
fwgx
Rudolf the Red.
(Forum King)
 
fwgx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 9,314
I read this today:

If you're going to start using Linux, your best bet it to buy a boxed verion with as much paper as you can get.

Then you have a chance of getting it to work rather than making false assumptions based on experience of a completly different OS and philosophy.

.: fwgx.co.uk.:.My art:.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
fwgx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2002, 17:45   #120
jscriptstuff
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
Send a message via AIM to jscriptstuff
Linux for dummies?

I've never used linux before. Somebody please steer me in the right direction for dumping winblows forever. I would do it myself, but I'm a lazy SOB.
jscriptstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > Breaking News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump