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Old 10th January 2003, 02:52   #241
laz
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I SUMMON YOU THREAD! LIVE AGAIN!

HAHA, I just made an "official buisness letter" for school on exacly this topic ot Bill Gate$ himself.
Its great.
I wonder what would happen if I acctulay send it.... hmmm......
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Old 10th January 2003, 11:10   #242
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1. his name is Bill gates (with an s, not a $)
2. it will be read by some microsoft employee, you will be sent a "thank you for your concern, we will take your views into consideration" letter, and then you will be forgotten about.
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Old 10th January 2003, 21:00   #243
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I know, well I am not really gonna send it.
I spelled it s/ an "$" for good reasons. Look at him, how did he make soo much money, not b/ he makes good OS's, but b/ he forced retailers to install Windows on the comps they sell.
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Old 10th January 2003, 21:06   #244
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it still makes you look dumb.

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Old 11th January 2003, 01:55   #245
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If all of this is true, then I think it will finally push us all back, not forward. OK, the internet is supposedly the reason that music and film companies are loosing money, although 2002 was a record year in the US and UK for box office receipts.. which sort of blows their argument into the water... But this Palladium thing is way over the top. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I buy a car, its my car to do as I wish with, BUT it sounds like that if I buy a computer with a Palladium chip in it then its technically I cant do anything without something telling me that I can or cant install software or connect to the net?? Erm, I thought I owned the computer, not some company... Yay!! Back to the dark ages. Break out the candles, its just like 1603... flog the heathens!! Screw you Microsoft/DMCA, Im going to live on a remote Scottish island and burn giant wicker men...
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Old 11th January 2003, 14:18   #246
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Quote:
Originally posted by mazzilla
Im going to live on a remote Scottish island and burn giant wicker men...
Now thats an interesting idea we can all consider...

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Old 13th January 2003, 01:37   #247
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DAMN! this thread is still going?!?!?!
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Old 13th January 2003, 07:42   #248
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Quote:
Originally posted by laz9999
I know, well I am not really gonna send it.
I spelled it s/ an "$" for good reasons. Look at him, how did he make soo much money, not b/ he makes good OS's, but b/ he forced retailers to install Windows on the comps they sell.
He made so much money for two reasons:

1) He did some morally wrong things (screwing many companies/people on the way), which got him in a very dominant position, as far as O/S market share.

Once that is done:

2) The business he's in has got to have the largest profit margins while still producing something. Once Windows is coded, it takes very little money (relatively) to print more disks.

But still - don't use "$" - it's about equivilent to "1337 H4x0R Sp34k". Don't do it. Resist the temptation. Keep in mind, he gave away (if I recall correctly) 90% of his liquid money to charity. Several billion dollars. Does a truly greedy man do that?

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 13th January 2003, 07:44   #249
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Quote:
Originally posted by mazzilla
If all of this is true
It's not. Even Microsoft doesn't have that much of a strangle-hold on the industry. The only thing to worry about would be laws that enforce something like Palladium - that's what you have to worry about. First step? DMCA.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 13th January 2003, 13:06   #250
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bill gates has a keen business mind, that's why he's rich. it's a common misconception that you can become powerful in business without doing some "morally wrong things", whatever they may be. monopolies, buyouts, corruption - it's all part of that one big american dream.

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Old 13th January 2003, 13:11   #251
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
bill gates has a keen business mind, that's why he's rich. it's a common misconception that you can become powerful in business without doing some "morally wrong things", whatever they may be. monopolies, buyouts, corruption - it's all part of that one big american dream.
Quote:
"A.D.D. (American Dream Denial)"

We fought your wars with all our hearts,
You sent us back in body parts,
You took our wills with the truth you stole,
We offer prayers for your long lost soul.

The remainder is,
An unjustifiable, egotistical, power struggle,
At the expense of the American Dream,
Of the American dream, of the American, of the American.

We don't give a damn about your world,
With all your global profits and all your jeweled pearls,
We don't give a damn about your world,
Right now, right now.

We don't give a fuck about your world,
With all your global profits, and all your jeweld pearls,
We don't give a fuck about your world,
Right now, right now.

There is no flag that is large enough,
To hide the shame of a man in cuffs,
You switched the signs then you closed our blinds,
You changed the channel then you changed our minds.

You bring about the stick,
We bring about the confusion,
Bring about the solution,
Bring about the fusion,
Bring about the collusion,
Bring about revolution,
Bring about revolution,
Bring it about.

We don't give a damn about your world,
With all your global profits and all your jeweled pearls,
We don't give a damn about your world,
Right now, right now.

We don't give a fuck about your world,
With all your global profits, and all your jeweld pearls,
We don't give a fuck about your world,
Right now, right now.

No flag large enoguh,
Shame on a man un cuffs,
You closed our blinds.

The remainder is,
An unjustifiable, egotistical, power struggle,
At the expense of the American Dream,
Of the American dream, of the American, of the American.

We don't give a damn about your world,
With all your global profits and all your jeweled pearls,
We don't give a damn about your world,
Right now, right now.

We don't give a fuck about your world,
With all your global profits, and all your jeweld pearls,
We don't give a fuck about your world,
Right now, right now, right now, right now, right now, right now, right now, pararara...
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Old 14th January 2003, 16:27   #252
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
bill gates has a keen business mind, that's why he's rich. it's a common misconception that you can become powerful in business without doing some "morally wrong things", whatever they may be. monopolies, buyouts, corruption - it's all part of that one big american dream.
I understand that there are many, at least, "morally questionable" things (monopolies, buyouts, corruption) - those can be a fact of life. However, outright betrayal, of many (IBM, Apple, are the first that come to mind) - that's above and beyond. Also, Microsoft produces little new - most ideas are stolen (or they bought a company which was actually producing new stuff).

And before someone says "well, 99.99% of engineers are the same way (produces very little)", NO, they are not the same way. Citrix, Oracle, Xerox, Apple, etc - these companies do NEW things. Certainly not 99.99% of it is old. For sure, Citrix made something entirely new - or at least, improved it to the point where Microsoft felt that they should give 17 million (I think that's the number) to a company with fewer than 100 employees in order to licence it (Not BUY Citrix - LICENCE some technology).

That having been said, Bill Gates DOES have a keen business mind. He's a fucking genious. He dropped out of high school to go program for a company. He became the richest man in the world. His company achived 95% dominance in the OS market. But that doesn't make what he did O.K.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 27th January 2003, 21:19   #253
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How many times do I need to tell you idiots that Bill Gates and Microsoft are not one in the same? Bill Gates is PART OF Microsoft. Bill Gates is not a walking, talking, breathing corporation made of flesh and blood.

That said, Bill Gates is not the sole person to blame for the bad business practices that made Windows dominate nor the sole person to blame for how raw our asses are gonna be after Palladium rapes them without lubrication. I'm not denying that he's not at all at fault here, because it's quite possible that he DID have a part in these decisions. However, there are many other people involved in decisions like this. Software developers, directors, executives, marketers, etc. Bill Gates is just the chairman and chief software architect. That's only two positions among the hundreds of positions one of the thousands of Microsoft employees could hold.
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Old 28th January 2003, 02:19   #254
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Quote:
Originally posted by BDA7DD
How many times do I need to tell you idiots that Bill Gates and Microsoft are not one in the same? Bill Gates is PART OF Microsoft. Bill Gates is not a walking, talking, breathing corporation made of flesh and blood.

That said, Bill Gates is not the sole person to blame for the bad business practices that made Windows dominate nor the sole person to blame for how raw our asses are gonna be after Palladium rapes them without lubrication. I'm not denying that he's not at all at fault here, because it's quite possible that he DID have a part in these decisions. However, there are many other people involved in decisions like this. Software developers, directors, executives, marketers, etc. Bill Gates is just the chairman and chief software architect. That's only two positions among the hundreds of positions one of the thousands of Microsoft employees could hold.
You are forgetting two things, which this "idiot" will remind you of.

1) Bill Gates owns the majority of Microsoft Corporation (above 50%). This means what he says, goes. Now, if a consumer knows what a company is doing, then you would think it's owner would. Since he has ultimate power, either he doesn't care, or condones most of those actions.

2) Bill Gates did unethical things before Microsoft employed 50,000 (or however many) people. He did things HIMSELF, PERSONALLY.

Not that we can blame EVERYTHING on Bill. Employees can do some pretty fucked up shit. But if a problem is continuing, then you can be pretty sure that Bill knows about it, and isn't doing anything about it.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 28th January 2003, 08:15   #255
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Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
1) Bill Gates owns the majority of Microsoft Corporation (above 50%). This means what he says, goes. Now, if a consumer knows what a company is doing, then you would think it's owner would. Since he has ultimate power, either he doesn't care, or condones most of those actions.
i'd have to go for the former - it seems to me like our man bill just wants to make software, rather than be a businessman.

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Old 28th January 2003, 19:21   #256
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This has a remarkable similarity to the "Ministry of Truth" in George Orwell's "1984" where the government continually faked information, both new and old, the entire country over to make themsleves appear "correct" all the time.
Having just done my english paper on this, I am very scared. My stomach literally churned at the reading of this info.

Like I said in an earlier post, I will fully make a Linux switch by the time Palladium comes out, and I will buy my hardware knowing that nothing of Microsofts will defile it, not even so little as a god damned mouse!

Microsoft (even though the info is a little bit exagerated) will be the death of the internet as we know it.

PS -> good thing I've still got all my hardware from my older computers. All they arte missing is stuff like sound card, vid card, etc. as the mobo and proc are already there.

"Welcome to the Island of people who know too much."..."Did you really think balloons would stop him?!"
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Old 28th January 2003, 19:34   #257
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Well, all this is scary and all, but what if you have no internet connection? How is the comptuer going to respond if it cant connect to that supposed remote server to verify the flags, etc?

"Welcome to the Island of people who know too much."..."Did you really think balloons would stop him?!"
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Old 28th January 2003, 20:39   #258
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I think about the fact my grandmother got her drivers license by going to the courthouse and signing her name. No written test, no driving test. Before that the license wasn't even required. Look at how that has changed, for the sake of public safety. Do you think her parents foresaw the DMV. That was fifty years ago, but technology moves a little faster now. If you think of DRM in the same vein it becomes inevitable that some sort of regulation will have to result. After all you can't have people allowed to travel completely free, even on the information superhighway.
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Old 29th January 2003, 01:22   #259
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Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
I'm not saying that "microsoft as a coorperation isn't involved in the business of choking out "open source" and third party coders like myself". Not at all. Now, keep in mind, the above was not meant for you. The above was meant for some "31337 hAx0r$", that I wanted to shut up. I don't want you to shut up, your points are (at least for the most part) totally relevant, and you don't seem to be an idiot.
Were you referring to me with your "31337" comment?

Here's MS's white paper on their biased stance on Palladiim

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Old 29th January 2003, 07:20   #260
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Damn, I havent read this thread in a long time.

But anyways, I had a thought.

If a peice of software or code is encrypted, how do you get around it? With a software hack of some type.

But if a peice of HARDWARE is encrypted, doesnt that mean that all you have to do if make a hardware hack of some type in order for things to be back to normal?

If windows palladium succeeds, all a person has to do is buy something with an effect similar to a "mod chip" like in a Playstation or Xbox, and all the time Microsoft spent on making their OS invincible will be for nothing. And the way mod chip goes, once one person makes the hardware hack, many others will follow creating competition between the makers, which will lead to dirt cheap prices. How much were PSX mod chips at first, about $100, but when others started making them, they went down, now you can get a PSX mod chip for under $10 nowadays. Same thing will happen to PCs.

In the computer world there is always a way around everything, Microsoft has yet to learn.
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Old 29th January 2003, 22:14   #261
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But the problem is, PS2, etc. had space for mod chips to be inluded. If MS decides not to include these solder points, how can you mod it except by removing actual hardware components. Aslo, since the Palladium bullshit is built inside the processor, MS could just as easily make hardware that wont work without a Palladium PC and vice versa.


No one answered my question before: Since Palladium must connect via internet to a server to see if the files and stuff are flagged as "good", then who or what is to stop you from running "bad" files if your computer is not internet connected?

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Old 29th January 2003, 22:29   #262
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Not only can they tell if your software is bad, by enforcing the DMRA combined with palladium, they could make they hardware need to be activated by logging on to their site just like Win XP. And they could make the activation limited to a specific amount of time. So you would have to log on at specific intervals in order for your hardware and software to run.
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Old 30th January 2003, 17:27   #263
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Your hardware would still run, it would just lock up on you. But then that's why you get a corporate key of some sort for Windows Longhorn like you do for WinXP and you dont need the activation. And besides, there's not point of having XP Palladium (or whatefer the fuck they're calling it) on stand alone machines or people's home computer without the net, so they have to pitch it to two different crowds.

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Old 31st January 2003, 02:30   #264
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Quote:
If a peice of software or code is encrypted, how do you get around it? With a software hack of some type.

But if a peice of HARDWARE is encrypted, doesnt that mean that all you have to do if make a hardware hack of some type in order for things to be back to normal?
it sounds good in theory but whom amung the masses is going to design a complicated peice of hardware to tear down the very essence of what your machine is doing at any given moment bypassing palladiums CPU and other various hardware embedded assembly code extentions, then translate it back for the kernel... and so on, and so on.... a mod chip for a super-h or RISC based game console is one thing, especially when that system was built with a later MOD chip in mind. but we're talking hundreds of thousands more system calls, IRQs, and god knows what else that i can't think of right now for a "hardware hack" to fix... the lag time alone wouldn't be worth the expense. and even when you get passed that you still slam face first into the wall of connectivity... so suppose you make this marvelous "Uber-mod" (or so i shall dub it) it would need to be it's own system practically just to handle the strain of sorting through palladiums endless cyphers, serial numbers, hardware VINs and product liscense codes, and do all this while spoofing the host system as to it's exsistence? no personal offence, but... DREAM ON! my point is a task of this magnitude is going to take alot more then just some simple " 31337 " coder to fix, who is going to pay $1000 for a not even top line palladium system and then go and spend that money again just to hack it? for once a company may have come up with a system that goes beyond the reach of third party developers... at least in the conventional sense
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Old 31st January 2003, 02:39   #265
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Quote:
No one answered my question before: Since Palladium must connect via internet to a server to see if the files and stuff are flagged as "good", then who or what is to stop you from running "bad" files if your computer is not internet connected?

just as alot of systems now come with rebates on MSN or AOL for buying, i see a possible "free" version of MSN srvice where you will be harssed with adds... this way everyone with a phone line will have a connection to the palladium verification network... after the first boot of a new machine your ass is theirs bassically
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Old 31st January 2003, 02:56   #266
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I understand this isn't quite the same but, right now I can take the ECM out of my car and there are companys that will desolder the main chip and replace it with either a modified (reprogramed) chip or socket so I can exchange chips when ever I want. It isn't legal for me to do this and liscence my vehicle for the street, but there is a market for this so companies do sell the product. A chip on the MB could be replaced or rerouted through the AGP or PCI slot, although with the slowdown you mentioned. Palladium in the processer, it would probably be best just to use a different procceser but even if MS makes this mandatory for their OS there will still be a market for products to get around it.
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Old 31st January 2003, 03:02   #267
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the two most popular proccessor companies have already signed to palladium... intel and amd are both in this. what does that leave us? cyrix was dead years ago and alpha just isn't main stream enough for the masses to make a move for... most people not involved in the IT proffessions don't even know who they are... and motorolla doesn't make a cpu that can handle a great enough strain for much more then a modern unix work station... i hate to say it but the advent of "palladium" just might change things more then we'd like to see
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Old 31st January 2003, 03:32   #268
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I need some links to the articles...NEED THOSE ARTICLES!

If life calls and you're busy, let the answering machine pick-up.

Just so you know, my previous avatar was NOT a swastika, nor did it have much similarity to one. Just thought I'd clear that up since I cannot use my own original art work.
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Old 3rd February 2003, 07:12   #269
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Quote:
Originally posted by 31337-2k2
Were you referring to me with your "31337" comment?

Here's MS's white paper on their biased stance on Palladiim
Apparantly not. You seem to speak english, realize that "$" is not the same symbol as "S", and have an IQ above 70. Therefore, you cannot possibly be who I am referring to.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 3rd February 2003, 07:40   #270
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Dark Moon
it sounds good in theory but whom amung the masses is going to design a complicated peice of hardware to tear down the very essence of what your machine ...
What you're forgetting is that software controls hardware. Also, do not underestimate the masses. Windows XP was cracked well before it was released (granted, much easier than Palladuim would be). You don't need to crack the hardware. Not at all. Even if Palladium got to full momentum (which it won't!), there's always going to be ways around things. Yes, Intel and AMD have agreed to make Palladium-"enhanced" chips. They didn't say they would NOT make NON-palladuim chips.

The real problem, of course, are laws which make things that get around Palladuim illegal (*cough* DMCA *cough*).

Palladuim can be broken. It will be broken, IF it ever becomes an issue.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 3rd February 2003, 12:18   #271
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Quote:
Originally posted by xzxzzx
Yes, Intel and AMD have agreed to make Palladium-"enhanced" chips. They didn't say they would NOT make NON-palladuim chips.
This is a very good point. I actually hadn't even thought of this. Phew... I'm starting to feel a lot less paranoid already.
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Old 4th March 2003, 18:47   #272
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lets just pray that the world wakes up to see that Linux is a safer route.
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Old 4th March 2003, 18:55   #273
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oh yeah, new leaked version of Longhorn, news article on www.betanews.com

more eye candy and useless features from our pals, Microsoft
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Old 4th March 2003, 20:47   #274
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Quote:
Originally posted by Apollos
oh yeah, new leaked version of Longhorn, news article on www.betanews.com

more eye candy and useless features from our pals, Microsoft
That is cool. But what is new? XP is pointless, just bloated.
I wonder how much of this palladium or what ever it is called will be integrated in Longhorn. I still see no reason to get this one, 2000 is still the best.
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Old 4th March 2003, 22:43   #275
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Originally posted by laz9999
That is cool. But what is new? XP is pointless, just bloated.
I wonder how much of this palladium or what ever it is called will be integrated in Longhorn. I still see no reason to get this one, 2000 is still the best.
XP is not "just bloated". It is actually significantly more compatable with 9x and DOS applications (games, particularly), among other, smaller things. And being bloated.

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Old 4th March 2003, 23:31   #276
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I agree, longhorn looks very bloated and it's nowhere near final release. It is kind of sickening when you think about how much Microsoft influences the way computing goes.
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Old 4th March 2003, 23:35   #277
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I agree, longhorn looks very bloated and it's nowhere near final release. It is kind of sickening when you think about how much Microsoft influences the way computing goes.
Didn't MS say they were going to rewrite the interface code? In that case, Longhorn's interface may be OK. The whole "database file system" is gonna definately add to overhead, though.

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Old 4th March 2003, 23:52   #278
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... Amazon is the one that's going to starve to death. We're just to have to drive to Barnes and Noble, that's all...[/B]
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Old 5th March 2003, 00:34   #279
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Didn't MS say they were going to rewrite the interface code? In that case, Longhorn's interface may be OK. The whole "database file system" is gonna definately add to overhead, though.
yeah, I suppose it's not too good to be critical of such an early release which will probably not resemble the final release much.

the thing is though, do they not see taking the choice to dictate what should happen and how consumers should consume
are people not going to go totally off ms and turn to alternatives?

I mean, it's not like it's unheard of nowadays people switching to UNIX systems that aren't run by greedy tyrants.
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Old 6th March 2003, 18:02   #280
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i think whoever got this "inside" info misinterpreted it.

it can't really be as bad as all that.

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