Old 20th October 2018, 04:30   #1
MrSinatra
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how i am going from 5.666 to 5.8 - REVIEW

so i have a pretty vanilla install of 5.666 Bento (with maybe an extra plugin or two, like TT's ALAC enc) but i have my install custom configured at this point and don't really want to start from scratch; so i am going to DL and install the 5.8 3660 official ver on top of the existing install.

i forget at this point if i am still using or not the in_mp3 plugin beta that Aminifu comically scolded me for continuing to use, but it doesn't really matter bc whatever is in 5.8 should fix whatever issues were present in both the 5.666 patched ver and the beta ver i was so illicitly using, and if it doesn't, that's something i will want to know and file a bug report on.

so, i went to the plugins directory, and added .old as the filename extension to the following plugins:

enc_lame.dll
gen_jumpex.dll (DrO's JTFE plugin i believe. if i want it after 5.8 i bet it will still work and all i have to do is remove the .old ...i'm assuming 5.8 removes/deletes this otherwise, but maybe not?)
in_mp3.dll
lame_enc.dll

again, not sure if installing 5.8 over top would remove these or not, but i assume adding the .old extension will protect them. not sure if i should be protecting any other 5.666 plugins or files, but i don't think so, although i'd be interested to hear if anyone else does, which ones, and why?

so anyway, now i'm off to install 5.8 3660 official!

to Download it:

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=453675

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Last edited by MrSinatra; 20th October 2018 at 07:05. Reason: added word to topic title
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Old 20th October 2018, 05:10   #2
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Old 20th October 2018, 05:13   #3
MrSinatra
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so i now have a 5.8 3660 install, and first impression is it seems snappier and looks a lil better, and both things are likely just figments of my imagination, ha. but it is acting and running smoothly so far.

all the files i marked .old are still there with the .old extension.

as expected, no new gen_jumpex.dll was installed (DrO's JTFE).

there is a new enc_lame.dll file and a new in_mp3.dll file.

there is a new lame_enc.dll, but it is now in the "winamp\shared" subfolder, instead of the plugins subfolder.

at this point, i forget why i had a lame_enc.dll, (or even if it came with an older winamp or if i put it there) and/or how it differs from the enc_lame.dll file winamp 5.8 does put there. but i still have my old one if i find out later i need it.

also, i think you can DL these lame dlls with the lame.exe utility on some different sites. again, i don't know if i need to do any of that, or what would be advisable to do, for the sake of encoding to mp3 with winamp. i might try ripping to mp3 later. but you can playback mp3 on winamp np without this 3rd party stuff. still, maybe those 3rd party lame downloads would have better, more up to date dlls for both encoding and playback, but i'm just thinking out loud, idk.

i like that all the "pro" stuff is now removed, thats sweet. and while i wish it had some autotagging ability, at least now it doesn't load gracenote plugins that don't work.

anyway, at this point in time, i don't see any reason why someone shouldn't install 5.8 3660

love to hear any feedback on the above, or any one else's exp?

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Old 20th October 2018, 05:35   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
anyway, at this point in time, i don't see any reason why someone shouldn't install 5.8 3660
The reason I'm not going to bother with Winamp 5.8 is because I believe the desktop version is a lame duck: dead in the water.
Radionomy says: "A leaked version of Winamp 5.8 recently spread over the Internet. Consequently, we have decided to make this new version available to you, revised by us." and "This version is not an ongoing project but be sure that we are currently working hard on a future new Winamp."
Heard it all before.

But you're right: give it a whirl if you want, there's no harm.
Maybe I'll try DrO's version, although that is also taking a long time. Meanwhile, I like 5.666.

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Old 20th October 2018, 06:12   #5
MrSinatra
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but Ryerman, consider the changelog:

Quote:
Winamp 5.8
* New: Windows Audio (WASAPI) Output plug-in (w.i.p.)
* Improved: Added an option to completely disable Winamp's video support

-i'm going to try this. what i will be curious about is if it will still play the audio from video files or not, if this option is enabled?

* Improved: Added an auto-fullscreen option to video prefs
* Improved: Added /ENUMPLAYLISTS to the command-line support
* Improved: Windows 8.1 and 10 compatibility

-not sure how its improved, but as i use Win10 now, seems potentially important, esp if it helps keep winamp from crashing/corrupting a DB.

* Improved: [in_mod] OpenMPT-based Module Player (replaces old MikMod player)
* Improved: [ml_playlists] Added browse path & edit title functions in Ctrl+E editor
* Improved: [Bento] Updated scrollbars and buttons and other tweaks (thanks Martin)
* Improved: [Bento & Modern skins] Added a Playlist Search feature (thanks Victor)


-i'm not sure how much the playlist stuff will matter to me, but apparently it wasn't a figment of my imagination, Bento DOES look better imo.

* Fixed: New URLs not being remembered after using Reset history in Open URL dialog
* Fixed: Various memory leaks

-self explanatory, and i'll always want that.

* Fixed: [gen_tray] Not showing correct current icon pack in preferences
* Fixed: [in_avi] Divide-by-zero crash with badly formed files (thanks ITDefensor)
* Fixed: [in_mp3] Crashing with some ID3v2 tags

i believe these are fixes to bugs i reported, at least in part, so this ALONE would warrant the upgrade for me.

* Fixed: [ml_wire] Slow loading issue
* Fixed: [ssdp] Crash on load if jnetlib was not correctly initialized
* Misc: Minimum required OS is now Win XP sp3 (Windows 7 or higher recommended)
* Misc: More general tweaks, improvements, fixes and optimizations

-wish i knew what they were, but let's take em at their word.

* Misc: Moved shared DLLs to Winamp\Shared folder
* Removed: All former "Pro" licensed functions (Winamp is now 100% freeware again)

-love this, should help if i need to enable mp3 encoding.

* Removed: gen_jumpex & UnicodeTaskbarFix (making way for native implementations)

- saved my gen_jumpex.dll but i forgot to do the same for the UnicodeTaskbarFix although i have no idea if i need it at all?

* Removed: [in_wm] DRM support
* Replaced: CD playback and ripping now using native Windows API (instead of Sonic)

-its about time!

* Replaced: MP3 Decoder now mpg123 based (instead of Fraunhofer)

-idk if this is an improvement or a regression? or is it a push? is mpg123, better, worse, or the same? i would love to know if there is a general consensus on this? i could revert i think b/c i have those .old marked files, right?

* Replaced: AAC Decoder now using Media Foundation (Vista and higher)
* Replaced: H.264 Decoder now using Media Foundation (Vista and higher)
* Replaced: MPEG-4 Pt.2 Decoder now using Media Foundation (Vista and higher)
* Updated: [in_vorbis] libogg 1.3.3 & libvorbis 1.3.6
* Updated: [libFLAC] FLAC 1.3.2
* Updated: [libyajl] libyajl v2.1.0
* Updated: [OpenSSL] OpenSSL v1.0.1i
* Updated: [png] libpng v1.5.24

-i guess libpng might matter to me if it is also the same file that handles jpegs.
MISSING from the changelog is the removal of Gracenote / autotagging files / plugins that no longer worked, which is a plus since it doesn't work.

so i bolded whats compelling to me personally and put some notes why, and as this is an official release, i guess i don't understand the blah attitude... it may be a bit underwhelming overall and it may be a bad sign for future development (i hope not), but its still imo a worthy version to update an existing install to.

i never understood why someone would post in the forums a bug or problem, but then go on to report they were using 5.581 instead of 5.666? i always use the newest b/c if the ver of winamp i use has a problem, it will only get looked at and fixed if i report it to the devs on the current official release.

not trying to strong arm you, or anyone, just explaining myself.

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Old 20th October 2018, 07:37   #6
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Good writeup. I played around with it in a VM a little bit but nothing as extensive as you. I am not sure if I am going to install it over 5.666 only because
1-It being beta, especially a beta that has the same date as a the release date after so long of silence (doesn't feel right)
2-I might install wacup later (might as well since i'm already donating)
3-no issues like you have experienced in terms of crashing. 5.666 is stable to me *knocks on wood*

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Old 20th October 2018, 08:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicf8 View Post
3-no issues like you have experienced in terms of crashing. 5.666 is stable to me *knocks on wood*
i just want to clarify that winamp crashing on me was VERY rare in 5.666, which i considered very stable. i assume 5.8 will be even more stable.

i did have some issues with scans, esp with some bad mp3s/tags that were themselves problematic and buggy. i think 5.8 has solved that. but even in the rare cases 5.666 did crash, the real culprit was the bad mp3s imo... i just feel like this 5.8 has since hardened itself against that scenario should i encounter it again.

prior to 5.666 winamp had some DB handling issues where the DB could corrupt pretty easy fairly often (or at least, often enough), but those issues and issues of winamp saving the DB multiple times when only once was called for, (thus also increasing corruption chances), were more or less solved for us all i believe a version or two prior to 5.666

i am just very keen on stability, b/c i have a radio background, and b/c it really sucks to have it crash any time, ever, be it in my car, on my TV/Stereo, or my laptop, alone or even worse, entertaining.

i am keeping an eye on what DrO is doing, a lot of it looks impressive, and it will beg the question of what can be ported to what? (unofficially speaking)

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Old 20th October 2018, 10:39   #8
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Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
there is NOT however a new lame_enc.dll file.

Are you sure there's no lame_enc.dll in the Winamp\Shared folder?
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Old 20th October 2018, 11:19   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Egg View Post
Are you sure there's no lame_enc.dll in the Winamp\Shared folder?
you are correct egg, i didn't think to look there, my oversight. can u edit my post, #3, and change this line:

"there is NOT however a new lame_enc.dll file."

to say this instead:

there is a new lame_enc.dll, but it is now in the "winamp\shared" subfolder, instead of the plugins subfolder.

thx.

are u going to add removal of gracenote/autotag to the changelog?

also, Bento is listed as 1.2.1 in both 5.666 and 5.8, even tho it IS listed in the changelog.

glad to see u back and posting!

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Old 20th October 2018, 17:07   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
.....i never understood why someone would post in the forums a bug or problem, but then go on to report they were using 5.581 instead of 5.666? i always use the newest b/c if the ver of winamp i use has a problem, it will only get looked at and fixed if i report it to the devs on the current official release....
I agree. My days of reporting bugs and problems are finished.
Let's see how (or if) the "Development Team" responds to those who raise issues with 5.8 Beta.

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Old 21st October 2018, 14:28   #11
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a few odds and ends...

i am happy to say that even when u deactivate video in prefs, winamp will still play the audio from a video file. thats very good imo. in any case, i bit the bullet and converted the vids to mp3 anyway, using VLC, so i can tag em proper for the ML.

i have tried to use format converter a few times, and frankly its weird. i tried to convert a 10sec video mpg to mp3, and it flat out failed, (with or without video on in prefs). i also tried to convert some (albeit odd) FLACs and a lot of the mp3 options were subdued, and the resulting file did not conform with the options picked, (like a CBR of 192). i don't really use winamp for converting anything to mp3, or ripping CDs to mp3, so can't say it bothers me much. (i do use it to convert FLAC to ALAC, using ThinkTinks excellent plugin, and that works great, although i need to see if all the tag values xfer)

i have been using 5.8 a lot since i installed it, and i would say it is more responsive and quicker, and opens and closes faster. no benchmarks or anything, but it just feels that way. i could probably add an .old extension to some plugins i'm never gonna use (like e.g. the portables, etc) and get it even lighter weight.

i am really liking this version!

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Old 22nd October 2018, 05:31   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i am just very keen on stability, b/c i have a radio background, and b/c it really sucks to have it crash any time, ever, be it in my car, on my TV/Stereo, or my laptop, alone or even worse, entertaining.
agreed, and this is from a guy who drives a 2014 mustang with ford sync that crashes constantly. Annoying as hell.

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Old 24th October 2018, 06:09   #13
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On XP, for shotucast and/or audiostream purposes is solid as a rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i just want to clarify that winamp crashing on me was VERY rare in 5.666, which i considered very stable. i assume 5.8 will be even more stable.

i did have some issues with scans, esp with some bad mp3s/tags that were themselves problematic and buggy. i think 5.8 has solved that. but even in the rare cases 5.666 did crash, the real culprit was the bad mp3s imo... i just feel like this 5.8 has since hardened itself against that scenario should i encounter it again.

prior to 5.666 winamp had some DB handling issues where the DB could corrupt pretty easy fairly often (or at least, often enough), but those issues and issues of winamp saving the DB multiple times when only once was called for, (thus also increasing corruption chances), were more or less solved for us all i believe a version or two prior to 5.666

i am just very keen on stability, b/c i have a radio background, and b/c it really sucks to have it crash any time, ever, be it in my car, on my TV/Stereo, or my laptop, alone or even worse, entertaining.

i am keeping an eye on what DrO is doing, a lot of it looks impressive, and it will beg the question of what can be ported to what? (unofficially speaking)
Honestly, in Windows XP SP3, Winamp 5.8 beta is still solid, but as you said, it's quicker than 5.666. I'm not even tested the CD ripping with mp3 files, but I noticed that now I can directly manage the URL of the online services, stuff that honestly I appreciate too much.
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Old 24th October 2018, 18:04   #14
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in Windows XP SP3.
Isn't that kind of a moot point given that XP is well past its prime? Security updates stopped over 4 years ago

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Old 25th October 2018, 01:46   #15
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Isn't that kind of a moot point given that XP is well past its prime? Security updates stopped over 4 years ago
Anybody still using XP probably knows about the PosReady registry key.
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Old 25th October 2018, 01:50   #16
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Anybody still using XP probably knows about the PosReady registry key.
I would hope so... but still.. "Runs stable on" anything pre-7 seems pointless

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Old 25th October 2018, 04:12   #17
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I agree, and I loved 7, but 10 is far and away their best OS.

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Old 25th October 2018, 21:21   #18
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Good, I can agree, but I don't know about "best".
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Old 26th October 2018, 03:02   #19
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Windows explorer is still a total piece of crap. Give me XFCE any time.
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Old 28th October 2018, 08:12   #20
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i setup winamp on a second system and this time had a problem i didn't have the first time. basically all the filetypes that had been correctly associated with winamp previously, were now set to other apps, like VLC, even audiotypes.

it was a minor pain to set it back, i had to go to settings > default apps > set defaults by app (at the bottom of the screen) b/c winamp was not recognized anywhere else, and it couldn't seemingly be done from within winamp either, or en masse, each extension set manually.

winamp also is not reporting its install size to the installed apps list.

[OT: having a similar issue with mp3tag, as there is now a windows store version, but if u install it, it seems to run concurrent, not overwriting the existing install, and if u uninstall the older ver manually, u might lose your mp3tag windows context menu items as i did]

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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:14   #21
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So I am curious, MrSinatra, notice any benefits of 5.8 Beta vs 5.666 Pro worth upgrading? Or nothing really worth it to be good enough to sticking with 5.666 Pro

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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:33   #22
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I mean, that's what my posts in this thread are about. Having now used 5.8 quite a bit, I think it's a completely worthwhile upgrade, with lots of small positive changes that add up to a better user exp overall. I think it's quicker and more stable, and leaner. Hopefully Benski et al can get some autotagging in there, and maybe R128, and address some of the quirks reported, but for me and my usage I would not continue to use 5.666 anywhere.

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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:36   #23
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Thanks

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Old 3rd November 2018, 11:11   #24
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I see there's been no mention of the AAC Encoder.

We couldn't ship enc_fhgaac with 5.8 because 1) we've no aac encoding license and 2) it was licensed by FhG to AOL.

The default Windows Media Foundation AAC encoder is limited to AAC-LC only, i.e. it doesn't do HE-AAC

We made the 5.8 installer not delete enc_aac / enc_fhgaac on upgrades, so it will still be there.
For clean installs, you'll need to grab it from the 5.666 installer or elsewehere......
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Old 4th November 2018, 10:50   #25
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Quote:
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We made the 5.8 installer not delete enc_aac / enc_fhgaac on upgrades, so it will still be there.
For clean installs, you'll need to grab it from the 5.666 installer or elsewehere......


On Upgrade, AAC+ encoding will continue to work. Even on XP. That's fine!
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Old 5th November 2018, 18:43   #26
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i just want to clarify that winamp crashing on me was VERY rare in 5.666, which i considered very stable. i assume 5.8 will be even more stable.
[...]
I could not recall problems with Winamp 5.666 crashing- until it started to happen something like a year or half a year before. But is happens so rarely that I do not bother with this, because whatever is the root cause it must be something outside of Winamp - or Winamp cannot handle my every growing ATF code anymore


As for switching to 5.8- when I will have to switch to Windows 10 then I will probably try it out. And I will be switching to Windows 10 after buying new hardware- which will be few months after Windows 7 will be no longer supported

I just do not like wasting time and energy on some hypothetical improvements when what I already have is still working good enough. I prefer spending this time on things like listening to music o sleeping
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Old 10th November 2018, 14:01   #27
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Ok, so I want to clarify something I find confused in the release notes, and also something I believe I was wrong about.

5.8 does not include JTFE and unicodetaskbar fix plugins on new, fresh installs. That is clear. However, if u have an existing install of winamp, 5.666 or below, and u have those 2 plugins, the installer will remove / delete the unicodetaskbarfix, but it will IGNORE the existing JTFE plugin, leaving it in place and operational.

I previously thought the installer removed both.

I am more and more convinced every day that 5.8 is a worthy upgrade.

Btw, I realize a few people still use AAC, but i think no one has commented bc it isn't popular, and bc it persists on upgrade installs. Is there really a reason to encode lossy to anything other than mp3?

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Old 10th November 2018, 14:42   #28
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For low bitrates, definitely.
At higher ones, technically AAC is better too, but whether the difference is audible... (at least those who use 320kbps mp3 would be better off with 256-ish AAC).
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Old 10th November 2018, 14:55   #29
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I guess my point would be that storage space / costs / constraints aren't a concern anymore. Given that, I doubt most people could tell a 160kbps or above mp3 from a AAC file. Most listening situations are less than perfect, either hardware, environment, or both. Also, mp3 is so universal. So why bother with AAC? Plus, AAC is itself confused, with the different types of it as Egg points out.

To be clear, I think winamp should support it to whatever extent is possible, that's not the issue. I just can't see why anyone would want to encode a CD or whatever to AAC instead of mp3. Anyway, I think all of that is why Egg hadn't seen any AAC comments yet.

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Old 10th November 2018, 15:27   #30
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. Also, mp3 is so universal. So why bother with AAC? .
bandwith off course

with limited bandwidth you can stream in 48 kbps AAC and have a decent amount of listeners while a 128/160 or 192 kbps mp3 stream would leave a radio station or internet stream with just a handfull of listeners
and the prices of streaming hosts go up with bandwith.

so 100 listeners on 48 kbps aac is cheaper than 100 on 192 kbps mp3.

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Old 10th November 2018, 15:35   #31
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Sure, totally agree. But that's for broadcasters using shoutcast. Again, not a big number and since AAC persists on upgrades, it explains the lack of comments.

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Old 10th November 2018, 16:20   #32
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Sure, totally agree. But that's for broadcasters using shoutcast. Again, not a big number and since AAC persists on upgrades, it explains the lack of comments.

and i agree with you again, have used it once but almost nobody used that stream , people stay with what they are familiar with and that is still mp3.

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Old 10th November 2018, 18:32   #33
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I guess my point would be that storage space / costs / constraints aren't a concern anymore.
If they weren't there'd be no reason to use any lossy format.

Playback compatibilty isn't much of a problem with AAC anymore either.
As to why the users of an audio player don't miss an encoder... (the more techy users never used Winamp to rip CDs anyway)
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Old 3rd December 2018, 16:45   #34
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Ok got enough information from this thread. So, I am going to update now.
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Old 6th December 2018, 17:56   #35
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I really appreciate reading the reviews and tips. Since its inception, Winamp has always been my faithful music player. I will now install 5.8 to my windows 7's & 10. I hope it will continue to whip the llamas butt for the next decade. I tip my hat to all involved.
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