2 Years Today With No Update For Winamp!

[Tohno_Neil]

Winamp team ?

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by musicf8

For me personally, in the past I usually de-selected it when installing winamp because I never really used JTF.

For me as well. I had to drop it because it was in the way for implementing Yet Another Shuffle for Winamp and as the author of JTFE puts it:

well that rules me out trying it if it's jtfe incompatible.
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?p=2971344

I never had used it before, so I dropped it and never ever missed it.

[talon1212]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

Yet Another Shuffle for Winamp[/URL]

yeah that always bothered me about winamp, I increased the morph rate ages ago, but still has a clear preference for the same songs in huge playlists.
I heard many times that, at the moment, WA just takes a subset of the playlist and randomizes those tracks.

Can't it just be made so that when a song ends. it checks the amount of tracks in the playlists, and does a random number between 1 and highest playlist number. then plays that track? that way it doesn't have to load a large list of tracks for the shuffle.

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by talon1212

Can't it just be made so that when a song ends. it checks the amount of tracks in the playlists, and does a random number between 1 and highest playlist number. then plays that track?

Each time a song is played it is dropped from the list of songs remaining to be played. This strategy effectively avoids "always listening to the same song".

The songs from a playlist already played (or not played so far, to be correct) is made persistent between invocations of Winamp.

The percentage of songs already played when to start afresh can be configured, i.e. when to wrap around.

Please note that there is a special thread for Yet Another Shuffle for Winamp.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by musicf8

Too bad there's no usage statistics on how essential it is to winamp users as a whole. For me personally, in the past I usually de-selected it when installing winamp because I never really used JTF.

Though, most of the reason why I install it now is because "why not", but I doubt I really utilize it.

I got along fine for years without using JTFE. But it's many features are addictive, once you start using them.

Some are mostly cosmetic, like the support for icon packs (e.g. http://www.pawelporwisz.pl/winamp/wi...n.php#iconpack).

Others increase Winamp's versatility, like the Queue and Queue Manager. These features allow files to be added, sorted, and played (inline or randomly) directly from the Queue.This enables playback from 2 places (the PE and the Queue). Options can be selected to automatically cause other actions once all the files in the Queue are played (such as replay, switch playback to the PE, shutdown Winamp, shutdown the computer, etc.).

Still others help make Winamp easier to use (less actions needed to get things done), like the Windows Explorer's context menu command "Enqueue & Play in Winamp" which lets selected files be added to the current active PE playlist (or Queue) and starts playback if a file is not already playing. Winamp's native Windows Explorer context menu commands "Enqueue in Winamp" just lets selected files be added to the end of the current active PE playlist and "Play in Winamp" will replace the files in the current active PE playlist with the selected files and start playback.

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

But it's many features are addictive, once you start using them.

I suspect that it strongly depends on the way you are using WA. I prefer to use WA for playing music in the background. I start it and than it shuffles through the music for hours (avoiding always playing the same song thanks to gen-yas ) without touching it. There's simply no need for something like JTFE.

I assume that people feeling that WA without JTFE is a huge loss are sitting constantly in front of their PC, start to listen to one song, soon jumping to another one, oh no that third one is the one ... (i.e. simply wasting their time).

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by talon1212

yeah that always bothered me about winamp, I increased the morph rate ages ago, but still has a clear preference for the same songs in huge playlists.

...

That's true, which is why I don't use shuffle.

When I want to mix up a playlist, I click on the "Randomize list" PE sort context menu command or use the shortcut keys (Ctrl+Shift+R) 4 or 5 times in a row to rearrange the listing. I also use the "Playlist Undo" plug-in (http://winampplugins.co.uk/plu.html) which lets me return to the original playback order if I want to.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

...

I assume that people feeling that WA without JTFE is a huge loss are sitting constantly in front of their PC, start to listen to one song, soon jumping to another one, oh no that third one is the one ... (i.e. simply wasting their time).

That could describe some people, but not me.

When just listening to music, I generally just load a playlist or two (or a customized smartview listing) and let them play. Sometimes I just want a general mix of things, sometimes music from a particular decade (or year), sometimes a particular genre, etc.

When making playlists and otherwise managing my music collection, I've come to find the features of JTFE to be a great help (and time saver).

Yes, it all depends on how a person uses their computer and apps. There is no one way that suits everyone. This is why I love Winamp. It's native options, along with 3rd party plug-ins, allows for a great deal of variation.

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

When making playlists and otherwise managing my music collection

Possibly you make playlists because you need them professionally (or semi-professionally). In that case it is, of course, part of the creative process.

But I suspect that there's no need for the majority of people to permanently make playlists.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

Possibly you make playlists because you need them professionally (or semi-professionally). In that case it is, of course, part of the creative process.

...

No (although I was a professional radio DJ many years ago), I just prefer things in some sort of definable order instead of 1 big jumbled pile.

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

I just prefer things in some sort of definable order instead of 1 big jumbled pile.

Anyway, I doubt that this is representative for the majority of people, and hence it is no counter argument

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

Anyway, I doubt that this is representative for the majority of people, and hence it is no counter argument

I don't know what is representative for the majority and tbh I don't care. In the past couple of days, you and some others have expressed no need for JTFE-like features. I and some others have expressed a desire for them. I just know that I will miss them if they are no longer available.

[rjc862003]

if you really need JTFE like support use AIMP4
I am sorry but at this stage AIMP4 does everything winamp used to do(yes everything plugins skins,media library the whole #!shebang and is under active development with monthly releases winamp is not

its not looking good with radionomy about to get the pants sued off them fking idiots

edit: forum software can't even scale a image correctly
=/ its been real winamp

[Edit > Koopa]No it doesn't, but you can simply attach the image, like I did for you now.

[Aminifu]

AMIP has become a worthy competitor, imo. It has copied many of Winamp's best features and added some of it's own. It's even able to run some of the plug-ins written for Winamp.

[Tohno_Neil]

Please don't forget the CUE Player.
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?p=3024771

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

AMIP has become a worthy competitor

Is it able to play videos?

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Koopa

And this is fact for the majority of users because you said so?

yep, thats right, you got it.

seriously, be realistic. how many users even know JTFE exists? you think its the majority?

it isn't, not even close.

Originally Posted by Koopa

Without JTFE Winamp lacks:

- a Playlist queue feature
- a skinnable jump to file window
- ability to queue files from the jump to file window
- icon library support (the 2.x based playlist/file icon support in Winamp sucks ass)
- customizable shell options
- highlighting of missing files

i agree, and that sucks, esp for those few in the minority who use it. imo, winamp made a brutal mistake when it allowed an employee to insert 3rd party code as part of the standard distribution, but without owning rights to said code. but its water under the bridge now.

as i said, they should put a basic JTFE starter in (one they code and own rights to) and then build it over time over new releases. that allows new releases to get out there!

just fyi, i'm not a big user of it, but i recently discovered via another thread it could do some things i would like. but what sucks even worse than not having JTFE, or having a lesser ver of it, is not having a new winamp at all b/c of that. i don't believe that argument holds water, JTFE should not hold up releasing a new winamp.

Originally Posted by Koopa

for me all of the above things are essential

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Ditto, and the same for the other stuff it provides!

so what? and i don't mean that like a dick, i mean like so what if you and Aminifu and the other small minority of users who care about this feel you need it? that should determine if the beta / new release can come out or not??? nonsense!

let me put it another way, you could:

1. stick with winamp 5.666 as it is now and be fine.

2. possibly port the JTFE plugin from 5.666 to a new release, (which may or may not work, tbd)

3. use the new release with its stripped down JTFE and comment on what features should be cloned to it next.

...meanwhile the rest of the winamp user universe can have the new version they desperately want.

to me, this is all painfully obvious.

to respond to what Egg said earlier: i don't think burning matters AT ALL, (ripping does, but burning? no.) i don't think JTFE matters, (insofar as putting out the next release; i do agree it should be cloned back in over time). i DO think art and metadata matter, and i would urge them to complete those two things before the next release.

jmho Koopa, feel free to ignore.

[Koopa]

So can you show me the statistics, that people who use it are the minority?
Or a statistic which shows that you are the people voice?

Anything you say is right, what others say is wrong. Was always the case. And this is the big problem you have.

There was also a statistic that people don't use skins at all, so we probably have more skins available in the web than users.

I'm sure, if they release Winamp, which lacks lot of the 5.666 features people will complain about it.

You don't need these features, I do. But the big difference is, I don't say that neither you, nor me a re the majority.

[talon1212]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

Each time a song is played it is dropped from the list of songs remaining to be played. This strategy effectively avoids "always listening to the same song".

The songs from a playlist already played (or not played so far, to be correct) is made persistent between invocations of Winamp.

The percentage of songs already played when to start afresh can be configured, i.e. when to wrap around.

Please note that there is a special thread for Yet Another Shuffle for Winamp.

Sorry I was talking about the default WA shuffle, not Yet Another Shuffle for Winamp

But really all we need is the system I described before right?
no need to drop anything (except exclude the current track),
an equal chance for each track, each time

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by talon1212

But really all we need is the system I described before right?

If I understand you right, yes indeed. That's exactly what Yet Another Shuffle for Winamp offers:

Originally Posted by talon1212

no need to drop anything (except exclude the current track)

Yep.

Originally Posted by talon1212

an equal chance for each [remaining] track, each time

Yep.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

Is it able to play videos?

Last time I checked, it could only play the audio part. Maybe that has changed or a plug-in is now available.

I usually use other apps for videos. Winamp has problems with some videos, as you know. Your plug-in is a big help in that area.

P.S.
Sorry for misspelling AIMP. I do think it has become a worthy competitor, but not yet a replacement for Winamp.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

...

so what? and i don't mean that like a dick, i mean like so what if you and Aminifu and the other small minority of users who care about this feel you need it? that should determine if the beta / new release can come out or not??? nonsense!

...

3. use the new release with its stripped down JTFE and comment on what features should be cloned to it next.

...

How much stripped down? I think DJ Egg thinks that most of the JTFE features should be included somehow. If I'm correct, then I agree with him.

The current Winamp version has enough no longer working features. The new release should try to not add several more, imo. The new release needs to be an improvement (however slight) over what we have now, otherwise what's the point. Trading new features for old may be acceptable, but that would highly depend on what the actual tradeoffs are.

[musicf8]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

Is it able to play videos?

Just my personal opinion, but I don't get why people would want their music & video player in one. It's like you're in the middle of a playlist and then you want to watch a video, which makes it more troublesome to watch a video and then switch back to your playlist one where you at.

That and being the fact that winamp sucks when it comes to videos vs other video players out there. Winamp should focus more on music, less on "media player" as a whole.

[Victhor]

Originally Posted by musicf8

Just my personal opinion, but I don't get why people would want their music & video player in one. It's like you're in the middle of a playlist and then you want to watch a video, which makes it more troublesome to watch a video and then switch back to your playlist one where you at.

That and being the fact that winamp sucks when it comes to videos vs other video players out there. Winamp should focus more on music, less on "media player" as a whole.

The place where music and videos converge is the key... meaning: Music videos. It's not meant to watch it actually, but rather being able to throw several file types into one playlist thinking only on what music it contains instead of what kind of files they are..

I have a folder with selected videoclips, some are concerts (not tracked), or sessions with 2 or 3 songs. Some is hard-to-find stuff, rare items. I like being able to mix it into my playlists, just to listen to it, not to watch it actually (which, after the first seen is kinda moot).

Now, I don't know if that way of using it is common or popular.. maybe if Winamp supports (easier) Youtube video streaming it can be quite popular..

[musicf8]

I used to have music videos in the same folders as my music, but it actually started annoying me when it would come on (moreso if it didn't play correctly).

I do like though, how google music has a button you can click to view the music video, which I think is a neat feature.

[pbelkner]

Originally Posted by musicf8

It's like you're in the middle of a playlist and then you want to watch a video [...] That and being the fact that winamp sucks when it comes to videos vs other video players out there.

That may be true and some years ago I had exactly the same feeling. That feeling triggered me to start develop the in_ffsox input plug-in. Today with "in_ffsox" everything becomes smooth:

• Videos are not exceptional, they are included in any ordinary playlist like any other track.
• If the playlist is shuffled to a video the video is displayed or otherwise the visualization. You can customize whether a video is displayed or instead the visualization. Or you can switch off both.
• It supports replaygain tags for videos, hence everything can be played at the same loudness.

Why want you exclude Youtube videos and music DVD or Blu-ray rips from a playlist?

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by musicf8

Just my personal opinion, but I don't get why people would want their music & video player in one. It's like you're in the middle of a playlist and then you want to watch a video, which makes it more troublesome to watch a video and then switch back to your playlist one where you at.

That and being the fact that winamp sucks when it comes to videos vs other video players out there. Winamp should focus more on music, less on "media player" as a whole.

When I have the time to watch Winamp while listening, I like to mix in music videos (that Winamp can play) or Milkdrop presets.

There are many 3rd party ways to improve Winamp's video handling.

[musicf8]

Originally Posted by pbelkner

Why want you exclude Youtube videos and music DVD or Blu-ray rips from a playlist?

It's just my personal opinion, I know others do prefer having everything in one, or all music regardless of audio or video, being handled by winamp.

I think my opinion is mostly based on this

• Winamp was originally just a music player up until version 5.0 was released (or later 2.9x interally if i remember correctly).
• video implementation always seemed on the backburner vs other things
• last time I really tried to use winamp as a video player was over 10 years ago
• winamp library manages music perfectly but not so much with videos in terms of tags
• winaqmp always seem to lack things that other players like VLC and MPC had
• very little useful video plugins out there for winamp

Now like I said, it's been 10+ years, so a lot of my opinions might be just wrong, because since then I have been clicking video capabilities off when I install.

But, when it comes to music, Winamp is the best, when it comes to video, winamp is far behind vs VLC and MPC.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by musicf8

...

But, when it comes to music, Winamp is the best, when it comes to video, winamp is far behind vs VLC and MPC.

Over the last ten years, Winamp Pro version's native video support (and 3rd party solutions) improved quite a bit. It's still not as simple or comprehensive as apps like VLC and MPC and it's no longer possible to enable the Pro features (without a previously validated Pro key), afaik. The next release is supposed to include the Pro features, but it probably will not address the reason why you're still using v5.63.

[musicf8]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

The next release is supposed to include the Pro features, but it probably will not address the reason why you're still using v5.63.

Oh no, I only am using 5.63 because any newer version causes ml_ipod to crash. I'll upgrade when my ipod craps out

edit: I mean having ml_ipod plugin in winamp 5.65+ causes winamp to crash.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Koopa

So can you show me the statistics, that people who use it are the minority?
Or a statistic which shows that you are the people voice?

this isn't about being "the peoples voice" and i don't claim to represent anyone other than myself.

this is about understanding what is obvious. the sky is blue, i have no need to prove that. most users don't use, or even know about JTFE, i have no need to prove that either.

that is obvious Koopa, and if you can't admit that, you are delusional.

perhaps you should read the other posts in this thread, not even a majority of these people use JTFE.

Originally Posted by Koopa

Anything you say is right, what others say is wrong. Was always the case. And this is the big problem you have.

i have strong opinions, i don't feel the need to tone them down or apologize for them just to keep you from being uncomfortable. but just for the record, there are numerous examples on these forums of me admitting i was wrong about X Y or Z

Originally Posted by Koopa

There was also a statistic that people don't use skins at all, so we probably have more skins available in the web than users.

and this has what to do with the price of tea in china? i mean, so what?

Originally Posted by Koopa

I'm sure, if they release Winamp, which lacks lot of the 5.666 features people will complain about it.

of course! but its better than going YEARS without a new release!

Originally Posted by Koopa

You don't need these features, I do. But the big difference is, I don't say that neither you, nor me a re the majority.

goodie for you. i however, DO say the majority doesn't use JTFE and i am 100% confident i am correct.

Koopa, you are without a doubt much more important to winamp than i am, i make no bones about that. your coding skills and utilities are much more important than my posts and opinions. but just b/c you WANT a full JTFE in the next release, does not mean a majority of winamp users use it or even know about it, (when it is painfully obvious they do not), or that the next winamp should wait for years to be released so new coders can clone JTFE to the new release.

just to be clear, i greatly respect you, and this isn't personal.

a suggestion: why don't you create a JTFE with your skills?

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

How much stripped down?

a lot. get the basic Q feature in there and then release.

more can be (and should be) added as we go, but to hold up a release over this is insane and is counter productive to the marketshare and long term viability of winamp overall.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

I think DJ Egg thinks that most of the JTFE features should be included somehow. If I'm correct, then I agree with him.

i agree with that as well, i just think it should be done over time AFTER the initial release which at this point is stalled waiting for some long off perfect clone of a plugin most people don't use or know about.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

The current Winamp version has enough no longer working features. The new release should try to not add several more, imo. The new release needs to be an improvement (however slight) over what we have now, otherwise what's the point. Trading new features for old may be acceptable, but that would highly depend on what the actual tradeoffs are.

look, winamp is way behind the curve at this point. it needs a post AOL ver that includes metadata and art. if its missing burning and most JTFE features in an initial release, thats FINE, thats acceptable b/c those are small potatoes. they will find their way back in eventually!

whats important now, imo, is to prove that after YEARS of nothing, that this thing isn't DOA. give those of us who care about it something to champion, and something to submit feedback on. right now the devs are fumbling around in the dark, and we only have vague notions that something might emerge.

and lets keep in mind, that while we argue over stupid JTFE philosophical questions and similar, the window of vivendi/radionomy may slam down shut, completely outside the control of winamp altogether! so there is an urgency to get something out NOW while that window is still ajar.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....83#post3051583

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

... look, winamp is way behind the curve at this point. ...

Who's curve? You and your silent majority's. If it means anything, my count of those who have expressed an opinion on whether JTFE is wanted or not has those who want it ahead by 1.

Winamp (in it's current state) still has features that no other media player has. But if you and your silent majority don't use them or know about them then they must not be important enough to worry about. So you imply and therefore it must be true. After-all if the majority don't use them or know about them how important can they be, right. Of course that's the only proper way to look at things, right.

What happens when today's majority view becomes tomorrow's minority view. You fight for your pov and don't give a rat's ass if it happens to be a minority or majority view. So why claim to be on the majority side in this case. It doesn't make you any more right or wrong.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

... we only have vague notions that something might emerge. ...

What we are you referring to? It is often true that those who know don't say and those who say don't know.

You repeatedly say, "I don't claim to represent anyone other than myself". When are you actually going to do that.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Who's curve? You and your silent majority's.

the curve of time. there are endless posts already on here expressing that winamp has gone too long, the forums literally full of such posts.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

If it means anything, my count of those who have expressed an opinion on whether JTFE is wanted or not has those who want it ahead by 1.

i won't bother to see if this is correct, but its not demonstrating a majority in the user base. the thread itself serves a population that is JTFE wary, not the overall proportion of of users.

i say again, most users are totally unaware of JTFE and that that fact is painfully obvious.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

Winamp (in it's current state) still has features that no other media player has. But if you and your silent majority don't use them or know about them then they must not be important enough to worry about.

absurd. those features are not whats holding up the next release.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

So you imply and therefore it must be true. After-all if the majority don't use them or know about them how important can they be, right. Of course that's the only proper way to look at things, right.

whatever that means. i am for all features making their way back in. BUT we don't need each and every feature in at once. give them time to work em in, and in the meantime a new ver can come out.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

What happens when today's majority view becomes tomorrow's minority view. You fight for your pov and don't give a rat's ass if it happens to be a minority or majority view. So why claim to be on the majority side in this case. It doesn't make you any more right or wrong.

apps like this want the MOST users. the majority want an app out. not putting an plugin out like JTFE keeps the app from going out at all, and i think thats dopey.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
... we only have vague notions that something might emerge. ...
What we are you referring to? It is often true that those who know don't say and those who say don't know.

no idea what u meant, but i meant that we only get vague claims a new winamp will come out one day. could be a problem given whats being said in the other thread :RE being sued.

Originally Posted by Aminifu

You repeatedly say, "I don't claim to represent anyone other than myself". When are you actually going to do that.

i represent my own opinion based on the facts at hand. it is a fact that JTFE does not matter to the winamp user universe. it is a fact, after waiting so long, a majority of winamp users want a new winamp.

[DJ-Garybaldy]

I get a feeling Radionomy have bigger fish to fry right now ....

When Winamp does make a comeback I'm sure it will be worth the wait and still be the same reliable piece of software that it's been all along.

Patience is a VIRTUE!

I know it's frustrating waiting for developers to do stuff but coding isn't as easy as people think....

I'm waiting patiently for a new version of another piece of software and I don't know when that's likely to be either ... It'll be released when it's released ... stop the whinging!

[talon1212]

Originally Posted by musicf8

Just my personal opinion, but I don't get why people would want their music & video player in one.

I have some music from which I really like the videoclips, so I downloaded the MP4,
or the songs kinda revolve around the video. (Pogo)
amazing treat when you're listening to tunes on acid, and an awesome video pops up.
It even has a pretty amazing OnScreenDisplay in fullscreen mode

Originally Posted by musicf8

It's like you're in the middle of a playlist and then you want to watch a video, which makes it more troublesome to watch a video and then switch back to your playlist one where you at.

Thats also where I really like the feature, "Display video window, when video playback begins"

[musicf8]

Originally Posted by talon1212

amazing treat when you're listening to tunes on acid, and an awesome video pops up.

I would hope milkdrop or some visualizer would be more than enough haha

[talon1212]

Originally Posted by musicf8

I would hope milkdrop or some visualizer would be more than enough haha

Ohh it sure is, especially with the preset pack that adds an additional 50,000 presets!
But then a clip I specially downloaded because I love it, pops up. just adds to it.

[Sabine Klare]

50000 presets... or 5000 textures...

Maybe the fans of Winamp & Milkdrop themselves can get some new random textures, because the Spring is coming, and a walk in a park or in a forest with the digital camera can make some more random textures. Also 2500 textures in the textures folder are good already...

[apollosfyre]

I'd love to see a new Winamp. I don't actually need most of the features the older versions had. I shut off much of it. Running 12-16 instances per PC in 6 PCs now. Biggest issue I have is instances freezing randomly, and desktop shortcuts that quit opening. In JTTF, all I really care about is that it opens the same file every time it opens/starts. That works with or without the JTTF being installed, so no loss. Need a Beta Tester who gives it industrial trials?