Old 17th January 2006, 21:23   #81
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It does show that youth do make mistakes that often they pay for in ways they shouldnt have had to. Maybe the kid was just trying to scare someone since it was a pellet gun to try to get back at those who were bullying him. Of course as you state it is a way that one can find himself shot, however, being at his age, adolesents are often not good at looking in the long end run when it comes to making decisions and often can pay a price for it. Has anyone been following the case of the three teenagers who were beating teh homeless people?
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Old 17th January 2006, 22:03   #82
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What is your tactical estimate of a punk kid with a paintball gun?.

My estimate would be zero threat or so low it's laughable... Lets get out the BFG and other toys....
I agree... but a paintball gun looks like a paintball gun.

But we digress... that doesn't really apply here. In this case it was a pellet gun. Most of those look like real guns and some of them have enough power to kill.

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Old 17th January 2006, 22:53   #83
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It does show that youth do make mistakes that often they pay for in ways they shouldnt have had to. Maybe the kid was just trying to scare someone since it was a pellet gun to try to get back at those who were bullying him. Of course as you state it is a way that one can find himself shot, however, being at his age, adolesents are often not good at looking in the long end run when it comes to making decisions and often can pay a price for it.?
You don't get back at people by taking a classmate hostage. People pick on other people in the real world. In school, you can talk to a guidance counselor and try to have some form of mediation. In the real world, you can get a restraining order if the harassment interferes severely with your life.

Also, I'm sure 99% of people would realize that taking a classmate hostage and pointing your pellet gun (which you painted so it looked realistic) at the cops is going to result in serious short-term consequences.

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Old 17th January 2006, 22:55   #84
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And lately, not in ways that show common sense.
You mean like shooting someone who's pointing (what you think is) a gun at you?

Yeah, that seems real stupid to me.

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Old 17th January 2006, 22:57   #85
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Right, but when dealing with 1) adolescence 2) emotions, often rationality or reason may not apply sometimes and mistakes happen. I would view it differently if he was 30 years of age becauae the cognitive development that has taken place where the activation moves from teh amydala region to the frontal lobes where reason is associated from.
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Old 17th January 2006, 23:03   #86
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Bringing a gun to school is NOT a mistake. Given that he took the time to paint it so it would look real, it appears to be planned. Of course, we don't know the specifics, but the evidence we know is against him.

Would you call Columbine a "mistake"? They were, after all, teenagers dealing with emotional problems.

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Old 17th January 2006, 23:11   #87
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Well, if he didnt make that decision it wouldnt have occurred. A lot of what can be seen behind this aggression in youth is violent video games and this violence that is experienced. Some teens may want to excellerate and bring the vivid violence they see on video games and bring it into reality. It has been shown that aggressive cognition and aggressive reactions and as well deadened reaction to violence is a result in many of the youth who have played video games over time. The objectivity of violence. Naturally, the mistake was his decision to do what he did, however, death was still not warranted. AFter all, I just read about this guy who got sentenced 15 years for killing 3 people. So, if you dont kill someone who has murdered 3, do you kill 1 who has threatened or taken hostage one? I think the most important thing to hold onto is compassion, for a violent police deparatment has gotten away with murder for years.
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Old 17th January 2006, 23:24   #88
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Well, if he didnt make that decision it wouldnt have occurred.
My point exactly. He made a decision to bring a gun to school and do the other dumb shit he did. For this, he paid the consequences.

I play violent video games frequently, as do most people on this forum (I presume). While I may be desensitized towards violence because of this, I am not going to try to emulate the game or threaten people with a gun.

As for your last point, being shot by the police because you are threatening them and others with a gun is not the same as being sentenced to death for a crime. The 15 year sentence for killing 3 people, it is highly likely that the person wasn't charged with 1st-degree murder, but with manslaughter.

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Old 17th January 2006, 23:32   #89
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I am not sayign that all people who play video games will commit violence. And you would be surprised at the inconsistency of the justice system and their sentencing. I think video games are a good way to study anxiety and the activity in the brain, espeically a game like Star wars jedi academy. And the thing i liked about jedi academy is the author put in metaphors, like this new civilization and their not being on a side yet, there rae a lot of metaphors in it which is pretty cool to go along with the quite graphic rich game. And this would show how if one stays on the dark side (emotional) that one may make decisions. Like the student who betrayed the jedi over the woman but the jedi (wel you could choose lol) and it is a good metaphor on how retaliation is not good karma lol.
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Old 18th January 2006, 01:19   #90
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Funny, I just ordered this shirt today, left NJ's warehouse at 4:33 PM:

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Old 18th January 2006, 15:21   #91
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LOL funny shirt. I have a quote from a book "Exploring Psychology" by David Myers that is quite interesting and is on the topic of mimicry and cognitive dissonance, "sometimes the effects of suggestibility are more serious. In the eight days following the 1999 shooting rampage at Colorado's Columbine High Schoool, every U.S. state except Vermont experienced threats of copycat violence. Pennsylvania along recorded 60 such threats. Sociologist David Phillips and his colleagues found that suicides, too, sometimes increase following a highly publicized suicide. In the wake of Marilyn Monroes' suicide on August 6, 1962, the number o August suicidess in the United States exceeded the usual count by 200," (D. Myers, 2005, page 545, Worth Publishing 6th edition).

People do bring their or try to bring their attitudes to be inline or in agreement with their views and vice versa and through behavior they change their attitudes. Often if one behaves a certain way their attitudes will follow and therefore their cognition will try. So, say you have a teen or anybody for that matter who is experiencing moments of darkness, one may behave in such a way, like dressing morbidly and as this happens it reinforces attitude and thought and it can go the other way around as well. The idea is to alleviate tension through trying to bring the attitude in line with the thought and behavior. Which, in adolescence the development of the brain does move towards teh front and this is where the emotioal and reasoning should merge into one.

Here are a couple more quotes that are tied into the subject which are quite itneresting from Exploring Psychology by David Myers, "It'll be like the LA riots, the Oklahoma bombing, WWI, Vietnam, Duke, and Doom all mixed together," (Journal Entry by Columbine killer Eric Harris.) "Absent the combination of extremely violent video games and these boys' incredibly deep involvement...this massacre would not have occurred," (lawsuit against video game makers, by Columbine Victims' Families). "Two Grand Rapids, Michigan teens and a an in his early twenties spent part of a night drinking beer and playing Grand Theft Auto III, using cars to run down simulated pedestrians, then beating them with fists, leaving bloody body behind. Then they went driving on a real drive, spotted a 38-year-old man on a bicycle, ran him down with their car, got out, stomped and punched him, and returned home to play the game some more," (2005, page 565).

Now, of course, not the majority of video game players do this, the idea is that people are often more strung emotionaly after playing a game rather than the release it is thought to have. Of course most people don't because of their typical faculties, but given anyone with predispositions and it can be seen. The funny thing i read was that they put an electrode in a monkey's limbic system that was the aggressive head monkey, and when they pressed the button the aggressive monkey became more passive, and when they put other monkeys in with this alpha monkey, the other monkeys learned to press the button to get the alpha monkey to calm down lol. There is a peculiar idea in thinking of an animal using devices to control the behavior of other animals lol. Literally pressing the other's buttons lol. The interesting part of it is, the monkey figured out the connection of the button and the control of aggression of the alpha monkey and then used it. Looks like Darwin just keeps on getting props as MTV lingo would state lol.

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Old 18th January 2006, 17:00   #92
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Since the introduction of violent video games to the market and popular culture, violent crimes by young people have decreased rather than increased.

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The ten-year period between 1992 and 2002 yielded a 66% decline of violent crime committed by children ages 10 to 17. That's almost twice the rate of decrease of violent crime among Americans in general, which only yielded a 35% decline.
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Old 18th January 2006, 17:13   #93
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People do bring their or try to bring their attitudes to be inline or in agreement with their views and vice versa and through behavior they change their attitudes. Often if one behaves a certain way their attitudes will follow
Attitudes affect their behavior? Who would have guessed?

Quote:
Here are a couple more quotes that are tied into the subject which are quite itneresting from Exploring Psychology by David Myers, "It'll be like the LA riots, the Oklahoma bombing, WWI, Vietnam, Duke, and Doom all mixed together," (Journal Entry by Columbine killer Eric Harris.)
He was merely using things known for thier violence as metaphors. Just because he mentions Doom doesn't mean it caused the massacre any more than World War I can be blamed for the massacre.

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"Absent the combination of extremely violent video games and these boys' incredibly deep involvement...this massacre would not have occurred," (lawsuit against video game makers, by Columbine Victims' Families)
Back this up with any emperical evidence and I will believe you. I could easily pull a quote from the defendants. It doesn't make it any more valid.

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"Two Grand Rapids, Michigan teens and a an in his early twenties spent part of a night drinking beer and playing Grand Theft Auto III, using cars to run down simulated pedestrians, then beating them with fists, leaving bloody body behind. Then they went driving on a real drive, spotted a 38-year-old man on a bicycle, ran him down with their car, got out, stomped and punched him, and returned home to play the game some more," (2005, page 565).
OK. Assuming that there were 100 incidents where people tried to emulate GTAIII and assuming 10 million copies sold, that means that 0.0001% of the people who bought it tried to emulate it. Hardly significant.

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Now, of course, not the majority of video game players do this, the idea is that people are often more strung emotionaly after playing a game rather than the release it is thought to have.
Proof? Even if it is, there isn't sufficient evidence that this would cause massacres and the like.

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Old 18th January 2006, 17:32   #94
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I am by far not stating it is the majority that will kill most definitely not, i have not gotten into a physical fight since I was in 5th grade and it wasnt even a fight that stopped my fighting it was playing football and accidentally breaking my friends leg as i jumped on him. (back in my day the teachers allowed us to play tackle at recess lol, and actually fighting was seen as normal and in a way was a way to make friends, however, the fighting at school was by no means what is being shown today, the fights didnt create black eyes and there was no fear of guns or knives to be used, and to my recollection no fights resulted in a bruise and actually most of them were wrestling type fights not fist fights, i dont think any of them were fist fights)

The research they have done though, has shown that video games excite emotions and lead to high arousal rather than alleviating them. So, people who are prone to violence nuerologically if they are playing the games may be pushed towards the acting out. It is another aspect on drugs and schizophrenia, now, maybe if the person didn't do PCP or angel dust maybe the schizophrenia wouldn't have come out and that the drug only 'facilitated' the disorder, like video games with certain individuals.

As a society, they have noticed over time since the 60's how people react to violece and have noticed more acceptance of it as the resulting awareness. That the awareness produces a sort of desensitization to such.

Now, proving it, well there is no such thing as a law in this like the Law of thermodynamics, however, they have conducted empirical research on this and have substantiated the claims, but by no means the research states it is the majority or as well that it will not change and is a fact. I guess the most important thing is 'how the research is done, rather than what the results are, that it is done in an objective fashion rather than throguh 'confirmatmion bias' which leads people to find the results in the data that confirms their preexisting beliefs'.
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Old 18th January 2006, 18:30   #95
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I think video games are just fun and with properly socialized kids it's just a diversion. How it affects disturbed children is really unknown.

Because this does provide a sort of weapons training, it could possibly make them more dangerous. For example, a kid might not know other than to empty a magazine in a gun at one target, instead of firing carefully and saving shots for individual targets.

Training in ideas like that might make them more dangerous.

I think the TV news may provide more danger with it's sensationalism than any video game though.

The tragedy at Columbine may indirectly be responsible for the shooting in this incident. And not because of the children being affected by television, but because of the police being affected by it.

I know a retired detective that took early retirement because of that. He thinks that the police have gone overboard about security. He doesn't think that the threat to him was any more than at any other time in his career, but that police reaction to some of the sensational has resulted in an overreaction by police.

It isn't just the police either. We are in a war and spending billions in domestic security. The actual danger of terrorism is really far lower than the perceived threat.

3000 dead in the WTC is really nothing statistically. Most of us will die of obesity or smoking. That hasn't changed.

The security measures that we have taken in the past have been effective. Otherwise the WTC would have been gone long ago. It certainly has been a target for decades. The symbol of american capitalism.

When we look at what happened at Columbine, the WTC and OK city, we really need to put this in perspective. But we are not behaving rationally.

Which is more likely. When a father tells you that his son only has a pellet gun... do you believe him?.

Logically, what is reasonable to believe?. It isn't often that we run into a real threat like what happened at Columbine. Is it rational to respond to every situation like it's a war?.

Say I'm a cop. What are the real odds of running into a deadly situation in a grade school?. And does my reaction make matters worst?.

Is it reasonable for police to approach my car, gun drawn, during a traffic stop because when the run my plate they see that I have a concealed weapons permit.

Invariably, I get the question "We'res your gun?". I never carry it. I just like to buy sporting weapons without a wait. This is strange, because you have to pass a background check to get a permit.

I would be more concerned about someone who didn't have a permit.

It's just this sort of overreaction that leads to shooting incidents like this.

Did it really help my security to make sure no one had nail clippers on the airplane?.

So, you see, it isn't just children that are the victim of irrationality.

Locally, I saw a riot take place from the balcony of a hotel. Some kids broke the window on the pancake house and knocked over some barricades. Not a riot. Until the police started shooting tear gas all over the place.

So does the tail wag the dog or the other way around?.

I've also seen some things happen in Portland that were bad during the anti war protests. The police got all the protestors in a park. Again, everyone was pretty peaceful. I would have probably ordered up some burgers and sang a few songs with the protestors.

The protestors were no longer blocking traffic and I would have just waited for them to go home. That not being good enough for the cops, again with the tear gas and beating the protestors.

So are you part of the solution or the problem?. Did they create a violent situation or stop one?.
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Old 18th January 2006, 18:47   #96
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I beleive it is more of an influence on existing emotionality is their claim, not a stop or a cause. They have put college students in experiments with violent video games and others with nonviolent and as well put them in a situation to blow a horn, and the people palying the violent video games were more anxious. I think that is the key, not that it creates violence, but creates a Type A personality sort to speak. Like road rage, people who are driving on the road are fregen crazy at times this restlessness and pushiness, this is the same process that various stimuli invoke that games can invoke like cars like waiting in the grocery store line behind someoen with coupons and needing to get every dime right and then writing a check lol.
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Old 18th January 2006, 18:58   #97
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every dime right and then writing a check lol.
Now that's cause for a swat team
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