Old 22nd December 2001, 21:18   #41
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ok uploaded new in_wave - now recognizes MP3, Vorbis and DivX.
also updated wa2update.exe
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Old 23rd December 2001, 00:20   #42
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Hey peter, just tried out your DirectSound/Crossfader plugin and wanted to let you know it's way too smooth. Nice job, really enjoying it and glad to be rid of the SqrSoft crossfader.
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Old 23rd December 2001, 09:24   #43
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thx peter
just asking why don't u allow for updates in zip format 2 b used instead of exe (much larger size)?
wa2 midi plugin is now 2.61b (22dec), yet the installation readme still says 2.61a..
will be around
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Old 23rd December 2001, 10:43   #44
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i use exe because:
1. new NSIS has really good compression and doesn't add that much
2. it makes it easier for newbies to install stuff (no need to deal with zip files and mess with dlls in winamp/plugins directory).

looks like i've been too lazy to change version number in the installer. oh well.
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Old 23rd December 2001, 13:30   #45
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w00t, cnv_wavpcm hack for mp3 wavs is now perfect, updated cnv_wavpcm.wac is in wa3plugz. too bad i can't do this in wa2 version. i'm also working on windoze-free version of cnv_wavpcm (can be compiled on linux, but obviously doesn't have ACM shit; quite usable after all - it has built-in decoders for common non-PCM WAV formats).
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Old 23rd December 2001, 17:16   #46
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sounds good.. i still use wa2.78 though, but any other improvements will help all.
i understand the NSIS installer part, then let it be.
tell us when some progress has been made 2 the win-free ver.. i'll see how it goes the next day
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Old 23rd December 2001, 18:11   #47
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about in_midi updates - most of people who want to have latest stuff simply browse http://www.blorp.com/~peter/zips/.
windoze-free version of Winamp3 wav plugin is much the same as regular one, but it's stripped from all ACM shit (can't play some weird WAVs, other formats work the same way), and has a few built-in replacement decoders for common non-PCM WAV formats (IMA ADPCM (yes, we all love Red Alert music), a-law, mu-law), and of course it now handles those evil MP3-encoded WAVs correctly, using Winamp3's MP3 decoder (eats way less CPU than ACM MP3 codec, MP3 decoder generates VIS data and processes EQ internally). i don't feel like releasing it because i can build only for windoze for now (no linux sdk yet) and it has less features than regular windoze version.
ps. has anyone actually managed to create working WAVs using that DivX / hacked WMA codec ? they don't work for me at all, and it seems that DivX codec tends to screw with ACM format selection dialog.
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Old 23rd December 2001, 23:46   #48
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Man O man, it must be Christmas! All good things have come together, and they are now PP's Crossfading DirectSound output plugin! This finally fixes a bunch of little annoyances/feature-requests that I've wanted in WA for a while.

I don't know if you want to be pestered with suggestions/questions for this yet but...

1. Are you going to merge your two DS plugins? Both gapless and crossfading in one?

2. It be cool if you could define a few seperate fade lengths. ie. seek, pause, stop, and regular track to track fade.

3. Ability toggle stop fade as well.

4. 'Aggressive' crossfading option ala MusicJukebox. The current track fades out to 0%, and the next track does not fade it comes it at 100%.

Man O Man this is great. Thanks.
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Old 24th December 2001, 00:13   #49
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1. yeah, it wouldn't be a big pain to get out_ds/out_evil code to do gapless stuff, but i would have to add instant stop hack which might cause potential problems (crossfading directsound will go to the next Winamp setup and i don't want any rough hacks here); also, crossfading directsound will never do primary buffer / exclusive mode. ah yeah, you can get near-gapless mode with short fade time.
2. separate fade times - ok, but again track-to-track fade is the same as stop-then-play (unless i add a bunch of hacks again, and i don't want that, because hacks tend to do bad things when millions of Winamp users run them on their crappy computers).
3. ok (the same as ability to specify fade-on-stop time, note the problems mentioned above)
4. fadeout then start next track with max volume ? quite possible, but will be kinda messy under winamp2. (hehe seems that wa3 version does something like that on my UT soundtrack playlist (big rarred mods) when clicking new file from playlist).

again, it will be hell of a lot easier to implement all these features in winamp3 version than in winamp2 one (winamp3 version does gapless output already).
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Old 24th December 2001, 01:09   #50
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Just to clarify on #4, the two tracks do mix/fade together however the next track does not fade-in. This way the two tracks crossfade and the upcomming song kicks in with full 'punch'.

intead of:
track1 |||>....
track2 ....<|||

like this:
track1 |||>....
track2 ....||||

(Oh yeah that cleared it right up eh?
Link to MediaJukebox if you want to check out the Aggressive Crossfade mode: http://www.musicex.com/mediajukebox/
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Old 24th December 2001, 01:51   #51
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ok i know what you mean, no fadein at all even if playing. that will be very simple (it's late night and i don't feel like touching that now)
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Old 24th December 2001, 17:06   #52
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One more request: could you add the ability for it to save the output device? When I restart winamp, it always defaults back to Primary Sound Driver, which is probably not an issue for most people, but it's a bit of an annoyance for me. Also, sometimes when I minimize winamp I get a bunch of static and break-up for about 5 seconds.. do you have any idea what's causing this? (Minimizing is the only action I can find so far that causes it, and I never had this problem before I switched the output plug-in.)

Thanks.
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Old 24th December 2001, 17:58   #53
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saving output device - yes, looks like i forgot to add it to config i/o.
about that noise when minimizing - there's nothing i can do, your system is to blame (probably screwed up soundcard drivers or really old DirectX version)
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Old 24th December 2001, 23:41   #54
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Damn, your plugins were slick.

Unfortunately, I got audio latencies about equal to the buffer length (!!!) so I went back to the old plugins.

I have an SB Live! Value, Win 98SE, DirectX 8.0a.

Any clue?

Thanks.

Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn.
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Old 25th December 2001, 00:33   #55
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Quote:
Unfortunately, I got audio latencies about equal to the buffer length (!!!) so I went back to the old plugins.
eh ? what do you mean "audio latencies" ? this is Winamp forums, planet earth; please talk in human language here. which output plugin are you using ? what are your settings ? do you have the latest version ? etc.
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Old 25th December 2001, 02:04   #56
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updated out_evil/out_ds stuff (fixed device config saving, added mj-like "never fade in" option).
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Old 25th December 2001, 02:12   #57
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Using your plugins (your WaveOut) with 2.78, if I tried to change the volume it would take about 2 seconds for the change to take effect, which coincidentally was the buffer length (2000 ms). Changing the buffer length changed the latency (in the right pane there is a line which tells you, if you do a config on your WaveOut), but it was still terrible. Switching back fixed everything.

Don't know what you mean when you say "settings". I had everything on defaults.

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Old 25th December 2001, 02:24   #58
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that's because you have enabled "alt volume setting method" option (which does (lame and ugly) PCM stream processing when receiving data from input plugin); their plugin does exactly the same if you enable that option in its config.
ah kids, why don't you just stay away from config options you don't understand ? (yes, it IS disabled by default)
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Old 25th December 2001, 16:31   #59
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back from x'mas dinner on my side..thx for the quick link, that sorts it out.
looks like win-ver of wa3 wav plugin would b difficult 2 make it perfect, though it can still do a good job 4 the non-win audience i suppose..
i thought the hacked codec was mp3/mpeg4v2 ?
now i know more about how wa3 wav plugin works, quite interesting. (red alert 1/2 sure rocks)
good luck on those features requested by lijil & enjoy the holidays
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Old 26th December 2001, 02:57   #60
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Hey wow thanks Peter. This is great.
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Old 26th December 2001, 19:10   #61
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updated out_ds2 and out_wave (now includes gapless version), have fun.
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Old 26th December 2001, 22:17   #62
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out_wave updated again; according to what i've heard there's something badly screwed up on winxp (please test it and report what happens).
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Old 26th December 2001, 22:24   #63
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Man if your going to be updating things so fast we're going to need a WA autoupdate plugin too. Seriously, your webpage isn't updated really all that frequently because your so busy. If you can email me when you update them, I have enough free time to keep an updated mirror for them on a free hosting service. An idea anyway.
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Old 26th December 2001, 22:41   #64
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then i would have to send out hundreds of mailbombs everyday :P
seriously, i don't think i need any mirrors, blorp.com does the job very good.
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Old 27th December 2001, 14:55   #65
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hey peter, just tried yr latest waveout plugin... have no idea what u've updated on, but @ least now it includes 2 readme files + gapless ver & other stuff.. only just started testing standard ver, so far so good (i'm usin win98se, so hardly any probs).
i also have 2 find out what gapless ver does more... let me try out next
just asking, after most of the bugs from win2k/xp is ironed out, would it b possible 2 further improve on it performance-wise? i dunno how bad's the latency on my comp: is +/- 2000ms alrite on an athlon 1ghz sys, 512 pc133 sdram? quality shouldn't b compromised too.. catch up later
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Old 27th December 2001, 16:20   #66
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seems that most of people misunderstand the latency display thing.
this is absolutely normal and should stay close to size of buffer (but will never actually exceed size of buffer). it shows how much data is buffered at the moment (time difference between decoding position and output position). all output plugins do the same (ever wondered why EQ changes never take immediate effect ?). you can obviously lower latency by reducing buffer size, but that will hurt skipping protection; there's no way around it. if you don't mess with DSP stuff and want max skipping protection (eg. use Winamp in background while playing Quake), you should keep latency as high as possible; i use latency display for tweaking sourcecode to keep as much data buffered as possible with given buffer size.
about differences between various out_wave flavours - see out_wave read_diz.txt file.
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Old 27th December 2001, 16:43   #67
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thx.. i c yr post @ project mayhems forum
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Old 28th December 2001, 10:31   #68
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just grabbed yr latest midi plugin to v2.61c.. wat's up, bug fixes?
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Old 28th December 2001, 12:46   #69
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it turned out that "delayed initialization" feature wasn't working correctly (full init was performed even when Winamp was asking in_midi if it can play given URL, causing messed up MIDI drivers to make Winamp puke when it was trying to play any file first time, not only when playing MIDI files); seems to partially fix some evil problems on winxp.
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Old 28th December 2001, 21:54   #70
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something offtopic: out_ds2 now has experimental silence remover - this will probably never go to Winamp setup, but it's quite fun to play with.
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Old 28th December 2001, 21:58   #71
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glad u're still there experimenting.. thx 4 keepin us informed.
will b back next day (gosh, it's almost 6am over here)

[edit] oh so u did all that b'cos of norman? hmm.. i'll c what happens tomolo
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Old 28th December 2001, 22:09   #72
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i'm really bored these days you know (high time to play some FF again i think).
anyway, this gap remover thingy does very good job with some of my mp3s and it doesn't have any tradeoffs / side effects. and yes - i do hate sqrsoft (mostly for their lame name).
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Old 28th December 2001, 23:43   #73
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I thought Nullsoft would be keeping you busy, you seem to be a regular contributer to Winamp, but you don't actually work for them? (You should be ) What about incorperating gapless ability into out_ds.dll? You said before it would require cheap hacks etc., but couldn't you keep it a seperate download from the WA installer, just for us PP fans!? Thanks for all the work ya do.
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Old 29th December 2001, 00:02   #74
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i'm not a regular employee, i'm a contractor (having real hell with getting my payments from AOL).
i'm now adding gapkiller to out_evil/out_ds/cnv_pcmdsound engine (almost done), it's so fun that it made me (temporarily) switch from wa3 to wa2. unfortunately, it's totally impossible to kill gaps at the end in waveOut stuff (without making huge mess), i add this only because i've found a cheap way to do this stuff with my directsound code.

ps. go test new gen_alpha
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Old 29th December 2001, 00:11   #75
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I'm using it right now, so far so good! At first it wasn't saving the settings as before, but I deleted it's settings in winamp.cfg and now it seems to be fine. I'll let you know after I use it some more.
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Old 29th December 2001, 01:30   #76
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yay updated out_evil now has built-in gap killer too.
also updated winamp3 stuff
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Old 29th December 2001, 01:55   #77
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Maybe I'm a dolt but I see the option for removing silence but no gapless options in 1.2. What am I missing?

Oh and gen_alpha is still working great. I have noticed that if the WA window is inactive and you click and immediately scroll in the playlist, the GUI will stay transparent until you stop. Betcha that's a windows bug.
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Old 29th December 2001, 02:09   #78
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out_evil doesn't have regular gapless mode; silence remover is intended only for killing long delays (eg. when a song has 2 seconds of silence before the end and you want to get rid of them); i'm not planning to add gapless mode to out_evil at all.
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Old 29th December 2001, 02:28   #79
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Yeah ok now it's making sense. Gap KILLER, not gapLESS. I remember you said you weren't adding gapless support yesterday but I thought you changed your mind! Oh well I edited my above post about gen_alpha there in case you missed it.

A question about the silence removal. The Monkey's Audio input plug has this option as well, are they going to conflict? (They don't seem to for me so far.) I pretty much use Monkey's Audio and OGG exlusively, and the next MAC release will also have Replay Gain support built in. It currently has realtime normalizing & gap KILLING (see I learn ). I wish Matt would make the silence removal and replay gain as seperate plugins, because as it is they are only going to work on ape files (duh). I don't know what to expect with replay gain, I'll have to test it out.

Also your in_vobis comment display code is freaking wonderfull. I mentioned it on the MAC boards but I don't know if he plans on doing something similar or not.

Also, also, have you ever yourself or heard of anyone looking into OGG's multi-channel (ie 2+) support? I think it supports 256 atm. Would there be a way to get say DVD soundtracks into OGG (I don't know if oggenc supports more than stereo channel encoding in its current state or not) and then have a WA plug that outputed 5.1 audio to all these new soundcards? (I have the GTXP myself and just picked up a set of logitech z560s) Boom.
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Old 29th December 2001, 02:46   #80
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my silence removing stuff shouldn't really conflict with anything - it kills samples before first sample with absoulute value greater than x, and samples after last sample with value greater than x (where x depends on selected volume filter value). simple and efficient (note that it can't kill more end-of-song samples than buffer size - what has been played already can't be removed).

btw, gapkiller was originally meant for gapless playback (see: hydrogenaudio forums), but it does very good job with files that have evil long silence at the end, even without real gapless mode.

about my title formatting code - there are good chances that it will be globally used by Winamp3 (yay). i think i could release the source under some non-restrictive license (it's very easy to use and can be easily copied between any input plugins).

multichannel ogg what ? have you actually found that one of my plugins has some problems with them ? out_vorbis should handle any amount of channels correctly (also 24-bit and 32-bit samples), the same about in_voribs and all output plugins (both old Winamp's default output plugins will screw up, you have been warned; also vis might look ugly and EQ will be probably bork).
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