Old 30th August 2010, 19:36   #1
thegoodtimes
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AC3 is fine - but cant get DTS to work... help please.

Hi all.

Looking for some help here.

I use the amazing ac3filter for everything and always have done. I used it in winamp with ac3winamp plugin and always managed to get ac3 and DTS WAVs to play via passthrough SPDIF into my Yamaha amp giving superb surroud sound.
This was all great on Windows XP - BUT.... cant get it all to work on windows7.

The ac3 works absolutely fine but I have speant days now trying to get the DTS WAVS to work but whatever I do my amp wont see the signal as 5.1 but instead just picks it up as 2 channel PCM.

The odd thing tho is that if I look in the ac3winamp/ac3filter dialog I can see your plugin picking up the channels and processing them properly with proper levels - but for some reason nothing is being passed through the SPDIF as 5.1.

So, I am well and truly stuck. I have even installed the in_dts plugin for winamp and also the ac3file and spdiffer plugins from the ac3filter website.

I have no idea why AC3 is going through the SPDIF ok but DTS isnt.

Any help or advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

Cheers
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Old 31st August 2010, 12:06   #2
Batter Pudding
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What is the sound card driver set to?
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Old 2nd September 2010, 10:03   #3
thegoodtimes
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Thanks Batter,
The soundcard has to be switched because it is Windows 7 between speakers and digital output.
I have been changing it to digital output which works fine because movies and AC3 play in surround sound - its just these DTS WAVs that wont.
Cheers.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 18:33   #4
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Good to see you have the drivers set correctly.

Can you pop an example DTS WAV somewhere I can download it? I can then try it out on my PC here. See if we can narrow down the issue at all.


I do know that there were changes from XP to Vista with WAV files. I had an old wav I had made on Win 95 that I would use for my Email Notification. Turned out that Vista\Win7 has tightened up the spec of acceptable wav files. Maybe this is having an effect on your DTS WAVs?
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Old 3rd September 2010, 14:41   #5
thegoodtimes
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Thanks alot Batter, I appreciate you testing this DTS WAV.

Any thoughts or comments as to whether this works on your system would be greatly appreciated indeed.

http://rapidshare.com/files/416845308/04_TEST.wav

regards.
thegoodtimes

(PS) loving your avatar, I was at a festival at the weekend and a tribute band performed Dark Side in full. Then they tagged on the end of their set WYWH and Comfortabley Numb. I know my Floyd - and this band did a great job! :-)
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Old 3rd September 2010, 14:57   #6
Batter Pudding
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Am downloading your wav to test later.

As to PF - I saw them in the flesh a couple of times, but post-Roger. There are some very good tribute bands out there - I saw The Australian Pink Floyd in Hove a few years back. Surprisingly good show (at a slightly smaller venue than the Real Pink Floyd )
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:12   #7
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What is that file supposed to be? All I get is nasty White Noise.

I tried to test it on my XP Based PC which is hooked up to my Amp. As I know that Classic Media Player plays DTS tracks for me fine, I tried it through that. Just farty white noise which did not trigger DTS on the amp.

MediaInfo tells me it is a DTS file, but nothing on my PC wants to play anything from it.

(Winamp, Media Player, Media Player Classic all the same on that XP PC...)


ARGH!! Now I have fired up Winamp on my Vista PC... dragged the wav into the play list. It started... and now will not stop. Just "whooshing" sounds from speakers after an initial buzz. I can't see it in the playlist. Closing Winamp is not stopping the audio. Even though TaskManager now does not list Winamp as a running process anymore!!!

I now have to reboot to get rid of the sound. I think that wav file is corrupted or not up to modern specs.

Last edited by Batter Pudding; 3rd September 2010 at 15:49.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:21   #8
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Correction to the above - VLC handles this file in a TOTALLy different way.

On the XP MCE PC I fired up VLC and heard the track instead of noise. Amp said stereo.

Went into VLC's Advanced settings, ticked something about SPDIF. Now I get DTS recognised on the amp... but no sound.

Will experiment more, but there is something suspect about this file. Do you have VLC? What happens if you play your wav through that? Try fiddling with settings in there. I cannot get any 5.1 audio from your wav. I can only get stereo.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:44   #9
thegoodtimes
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Yeah, seen Aus Floyd a few times - and Roger at Glastonbury!

Thanks for all the testing Batter.

The file works just like it does for you in VLC but for some reason the Yamaha amp is still seeing it as PCM Stereo.

It has to be something to do with the change in WAV as you said.

I just cant figure it out at all but know they work ok as I have played them a million times under Windows XP.

This is so annoying. :-(
Cheers mate.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:51   #10
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Hey batter,

Play it in VLC then go into TOOL then MEDIA INFORMATION... click the codec details tab and you will see that VLC sees it is 3 front and 2 rear plus the LFE.

It knows it is a surround sound and the file is cool - so why cant we get it pased through SPDIF?

Odd!
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Old 3rd September 2010, 15:56   #11
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Batter....
I think I solved it!!!!!

The DTS WAVs that work are ALL 48000Hz.
The ones that dont like the sample one I sent are all 44000Hz.

So, how to we get players to put the 44000Hz ones through SPDIF or how do they get converted to 48000Hz?

Any ideas mate?

Cheers.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 16:06   #12
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Yep. I see that same information on my VLC - 3F2R/LFE

When I am playing this on the XP MCE PC, once "Use SPDIF" is ticked in VLC Advanced settings, the Onkyo TX-SR806 AV Amp does clearly show DTS on the display. And plays silence.

If I untick use SPDIF, I get a stereo output through the SPDIF to my Onkyo.

(We need a reference DTS wav from another source to test with... I know I have a few DTS ripped movies somewhere.. but too busy to hunt them out)
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Old 3rd September 2010, 16:08   #13
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@solved it - that makes sense. But I can't help with the change of sample rate. I would only hunt round the same settings you are now looking in.

What about running them through a converter? Could they be resampled to 48000Hz?
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Old 3rd September 2010, 16:49   #14
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Guess what Batter.... SORTED! :-)

Here is a little tutorial I wrote myself in case my grey matter lets me down in future. Give it a go if you get time and let me know if your amp howls with lovely DTS enjoyment. :-)

Thanks for all your help Batter Pudding - it is much appreciated.

regards.
Gray

---------------------------
There is no need for the in_dts plugin for winamp as AC3s Winamp filter will do it all.
The WAV files ripped from a DTS CD are 44000Hz and not 48000Hz as AC3Filter and others would like but there is a way to make AC3Filter play them.
Make sure the WAV extensions are changed to DTS then go into the Winamp config for the WinampAC3 plugin and set as per the included JPEG here.



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Old 3rd September 2010, 17:18   #15
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Okay... some tweaking. I am getting results with that Output Format set to "AS IS". No need to force 5 channels like your example. (I would rather a stereo track stayed stereo)

With "AS IS" selected, it still kicks out a 5.1 Dolby Digital surround track. clearly different things out of different speakers.

BUT... this is not DTS. VLC gives me true DTS (but silent). Winamp and the AC3 addon gives me Dolby...


Oh - and a warning. If you close Winamp with a DTS track playing, it cannot start again at that track. It crashes. To stop the crash, move the in_winampAC3.dll plug-in out of the plugin folder, restart winamp, select a non-DTS track, close winamp, put in_winampac3.dll back into plugins folder.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 17:22   #16
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Oooooooooookay.....

To get TRUE DTS.... TICK the SPDIF Passthrough \ DTS option. My Amp now lights up as DTS.

So time to update your screenshot a bit.

Output Format: "AS IS"
"Use SPDIF" - Tick It
SPDIF Passthrough: TICK DTS (and I guess it would be same for AC3....)

And for your specific track: TICK "Restrict SPDIF Sample Rate 44kHz"


We are both sitting here with smart-arse amps which do our decoding for us. So everything needs to be set to "pass it on, don't mess with it"
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Old 3rd September 2010, 18:19   #17
thegoodtimes
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hmmmmmn, good stuff but no mater what I do I cannt get the true DTS.
Remember tho I am using Winamp and the AC3filter winamp plugin so the resgular AC3filter plugin via VLC may be a little different.

I am stil getting DD and have 5.0 selected because I havent got an LFE attached at the moment and it seems to comfuse the system if I say I have so I get the LFE channel downmixed into the 5.0 output.

No matter what I do I cant get DTS passthrough and the DTS light.

I have to keep the rate on the main screen set to 48000Hz and the use AC3 Encoder ticked to get my DD signal but no matter what I do with the passthrough I cannot get direct DTS.

You did good - but I just cant get DTS passthrough.... how does this look compared to your decoder info in AC3Filter....?

Input format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100
User format: PCM16 3/2 (5 channels) 48000
Output format: SPDIF 3/2 (5 channels) 48000

Use SPDIF
SPDIF status: AC3 encode
SPDIF passthrough for: MPA AC3 DTS
Use AC3 encoder (encode stereo PCM)
Check SPDIF sample rate (allow: 48kHz)
Do not query for SPDIF output support

Decoding chain:
(DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Decoder -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Processor -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Encoder -> (AC3 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Spdifer -> (SPDIF 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Dejitter -> (SPDIF 3/2 (5 channels) 48000)

Filters info (in order of processing):

Decoder:
Stream format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100Hz
Bitstream type: 14bit low endian
Frame size: free format
Samples: 1024
Bitrate: unknown
SPDIF stream type: 0xc
Frame interval: 4096
Actual bitrate: 1411kbps
DTS
speakers: 3/2.1 (5.1)
sample rate: 44100Hz
bitrate: 1411kbps
stream: 14bit LE
frame size: 3584 bytes
nsamples: 1024
amode: 9
No CRC
Processor:
(Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Input levels -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Mixer -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 44100) -> Equalizer -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 44100) -> SRC -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Bass redirection -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Dither -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> AGC -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Delay -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Spectrum -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000) -> Output levels -> (Linear PCM 3/2 (5 channels) 48000)

Encoder:
-

Spdifer:
Stream format: AC3 3/2 (5 channels) 48000Hz
Bitstream type: byte stream
Frame size: 2560
Samples: 1536
Bitrate: 640kbps
SPDIF stream type: 0x1
Frame interval: 2560
Actual bitrate: 640kbps
Output format: SPDIF 3/2 (5 channels) 48000Hz
SPDIF format: wrapped
Bitstream: 16bit LE
Frame size: 6144

Dejitter:
-
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Old 3rd September 2010, 18:57   #18
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(will update tomorrow... off out now...)
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Old 4th September 2010, 11:13   #19
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Definitely have DTS here on my Onkyo.

Comparing the settings... changes from your image are:
Output Format: AS IS (No Change)
SPDIF Passthrough: Both AC3 and DTS are ticked.


Everything else as per your image. This gives me the following text in the Decoder Info box:

Input format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100
User format: PCM16 - 0
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100

Use SPDIF
SPDIF status: SPDIF passthrough
SPDIF passthrough for: AC3 DTS
Use AC3 encoder (do not encode stereo PCM)
Check SPDIF sample rate (allow: 48kHz 44.1kHz)
Query for SPDIF output support

Decoding chain:
(DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Spdifer -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Dejitter -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100)

Filters info (in order of processing):

Spdifer:
Stream format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100Hz
Bitstream type: 14bit low endian
Frame size: free format
Samples: 1024
Bitrate: unknown
SPDIF stream type: 0xc
Frame interval: 4096
Actual bitrate: 1411kbps
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100Hz
SPDIF format: padded
Bitstream: 14bit LE
Frame size: 4096

Dejitter:
-



From reading that, it is clear you are telling Winamp to convert the output to AC3 \ 5 channels. This is why you are not seeing DTS.

Just for a test - do an exact copy of my settings. Even though your LFE is AWOL does it at least let the amp sense the DTS signal?
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Old 4th September 2010, 11:33   #20
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What I now want to know is how to get the .dts file type associated with Winamp.
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Old 4th September 2010, 13:22   #21
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Thanks mate but I mirrored your settings and am not getting it in DTS.

In fact - I can only get it in DD if I change the rate to 48000 and not 'as is'.

Few things I have noticed about your setup tho.

1)are you using winamp or VLC?
2)I see you have spdifer installed, do you have AC3filter installed too and if in winamp have you got AC3winamp installed?
3)have you go the in_dts plugin installed anywhere?

I am determined to get this sorted as I am running and running to catch up with the sun but its sinking. lol.

Cheers.
Graham
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Old 4th September 2010, 13:45   #22
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Right then Batter - I done it - finally!

I needed to ramp up the very hidden properties of my sound card for it to support all the sample rates.

Have now got my DTS via passthrough at 24bit and my Realtek sound card is playing it at 24bit too.

Have a look here below.... this is how I got it going because even with your setting it was not seeing SPDIF for the true DTS

http://ac3filter.net/forum/index.php...sg3270#msg3270

Anyway, here is my SPDIF AC3filter for winamp output and I thank you very much indeed for all your help - you have really give me some great help and some great ideas to get this sorted. Was about to give up and let it all decode into AC3 until you got your magic DTS light on your amp and then I got jealous. LOL.

Cheers again mate, I gonna do a tutorial for myself now and will post an updated one on here and the AC3filter site for others.

(BTW) I bought the retail DSOTM in 5.1 and think the old quad version is a million times better.... you heard that one?

Graham
--------------

Input format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100
User format: PCM24 3/2 (5 channels) 48000
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100

Use SPDIF
SPDIF status: SPDIF passthrough
SPDIF passthrough for: AC3 DTS
Use AC3 encoder (encode stereo PCM)
Do not check SPDIF sample rate
Query for SPDIF output support

Decoding chain:
(DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Spdifer -> (Unknown) -> Dejitter -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100)

Filters info (in order of processing):

Spdifer:
Out of sync
Dejitter:
-
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Old 4th September 2010, 13:56   #23
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Updated reply as now got dts passthrough solved!

There is no need for the in_dts plugin for winamp as AC3s Winamp filter will do it all.

The WAV files ripped from a DTS CD are 44000Hz and not 48000Hz as AC3Filter and others would like but there is a way to make AC3Filter play them.

Make sure the WAV extensions are changed to DTS then go into the Winamp config for the WinampAC3 plugin and set as per the JPEGs in this folder.

One drawback is no matter whether DTS passthrough is ticked... it will tell you that SPDIF is not available. That is because there is a sneaky few setting burried deep in the properties of the sound card (mine is a Realtek) which need to be tick boxed to allow higher sample rates.

this needs to be done even though you change your settings on you soundcards GUI and even though you tell AC3filter how to resample etc.

So, the final output into DTS shows like this in Winamp... (BUT NOTE:- YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR OUTPUT CHANNELS 'AS IS'. Mine are only set to 5.0 instead of 5.1 because I currently have no LFE/sub and have the LFE channel mixed down into the other 5 speakers.)

Input format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100
User format: PCM24 3/2 (5 channels) 48000
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100

Use SPDIF
SPDIF status: SPDIF passthrough
SPDIF passthrough for: AC3 DTS
Use AC3 encoder (encode stereo PCM)
Do not check SPDIF sample rate
Query for SPDIF output support

Decoding chain:
(DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Spdifer -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100) -> Dejitter -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100)

Filters info (in order of processing):

Spdifer:
Stream format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100Hz
Bitstream type: 14bit low endian
Frame size: free format
Samples: 1024
Bitrate: unknown
SPDIF stream type: 0xc
Frame interval: 4096
Actual bitrate: 1411kbps
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 44100Hz
SPDIF format: padded
Bitstream: 14bit LE
Frame size: 4096

Dejitter:




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I hope this helps someone.
regards.
Graham
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Old 4th September 2010, 14:00   #24
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Great... all sorted. Thought the sound card would be involved somewhere. I'll now dump the long reply I was typing out about my exact setup.

Because I knew I had gone through something similar when getting DTS from Media Player Classic for films, I knew it would be there in Winamp somewhere. Glad my stubbornness helped

Edit: I still think you should add a note to your specific setup and point out that "AS IS" would be the better choice for a normal 5.1 system when all the speakers are attached.
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Old 4th September 2010, 14:20   #25
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good point mate - will do. :-)
cheers.
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