Old 17th May 2003, 10:18   #1
primenumber
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Many Harddrive Questions

The time has come for me to purchase a new harddrive. The 10GB HD I
currently have is split between 4 people and is not enough anymore.

I am planning on buying a 60GB or possibly 80GB HD. Money is not
dictating which size I buy; I'm just thinking about how much space will be used. My main question is how to divide a new HD. I've heard some partition a drive only for Windows and some partition drives for music, videos, etc.

I will be loading Win98 so I will have to use FAT32, correct?

My dad and I both have about 2 GB of music so should I make a partition for each of us to hold our music?

Where would be the best place to load programs? Is the Program Files
folder adequate or should programs be placed on another partition?

I am going to use the large drive for Windows and the smaller drive for Mandrake. Windows will be used probably 99% of the time so the large HD will need to be primary. If I load Mandrake on the secondary HD, how will I boot into it? Will there be a Lilo boot loader every time I boot the computer?

Assuming Windows is loaded on the primary HD and Mandrake is on the
secondary HD, will I be able to access music through Mandrake from the larger HD?

I have Norton Ghost and plan to copy the system once I get Windows
freshly installed. When is the best time to copy the system? Should I load all the updates and drivers first?


Thanks for any help anyone may have.
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Old 17th May 2003, 10:35   #2
Viper007Bond
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Well, I am no guru, but I would definetly put Windows on it's own partition (so you can format that section easily).

As for the other partitions, which will have to be FAT32, you don't want to make them too small because it's a pain in the ass if your "Music" partion runs out of space and you have to start putting your music in mutliple places for example.

I would just make 5 partitions (unless the guru's say that's too many), one for Windows and one for each person.

Basically, you just want to be able to format parts of the hard drive without loosing anything. As for your other questions, I'm not the one to ask...

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Old 17th May 2003, 10:46   #3
Atmo
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I'd make 3 or 4 partitions on the drive, since you're using fat32 you'll have a 32gb maximum partition size. [edit] Actually, you can go higher than 32gb, but the larger cluster size will mean you'll waste a lot of space [/edit]

If it's a 60 i'd make a 1gb partition for the swapfile at the beginning of the drive, then 29 and 30gb partitions for everything else. On an 80, a 1gb swapfile partition, then 2 32gb partitions and a 17gb. Creating a seperate partition for the swapfile is a good idea, since it cant become fragmented.

I wouldnt bother creating seperate partitions for your music files, just put them on a different partition than the one you'll install windows - when it comes time to format you wont have to back them up (although it's always a good idea).

It's fine to have your programs installed on the same partition as windows. If you were running more than 4 physical drives and used your system for video editing/graphics/music production then it may be beneficial, but putting them on seperate partitions isnt going to make any difference at all.

You could either use lilo, or disconnect the other drive when installing mandrake and select the boot drive in the bios. If you're only running mandrake occasionally this would be a better solution than using a boot loader.

Yes, linux has no problems reading and writing fat32 partitions. NTFS is another thing though.

I dont like restoring with ghost after hardware changes, all sorts of things can go wrong. I'd put the drive in and do a fresh install. If it was a 2k/xp system you could run sysprep before ghosting, but if i remember correctly it's not available on 9x/me.
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Old 17th May 2003, 10:48   #4
dylman
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Buy the biggest drive you can afford. 120Gb and even 160Gb drives are affordable these days. You will always need more than you think (My 80Gb drive lasted six months before I added a 120Gb).

Placing your Windows install into it's own partition is a good idea, but try and limit the amount of partitions you create after that. The more you create, the less flexible your storage will be.

Think about upgrading to Windows XP or 2000. It really is worth it, to get away from FAT32 if nothing else!

There's no need to tell me when I'm right;
I operate on that principle exclusively and with absolute certainty
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Old 17th May 2003, 11:53   #5
nierke
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What advantages does NTFS has against fat32?

...:::nierke:::...
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Old 17th May 2003, 11:58   #6
Viper007Bond
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I presonally love NTFS. It has encription built right into it and, if you want, encrypts all of your files with your username and password.

We'll hvae to get a NTFS guru's response though for the technical side of it.

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Old 17th May 2003, 12:03   #7
Atmo
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Quote:
Originally posted by nierke
What advantages does NTFS has against fat32?
Unlimited volume size without wasting space, the ability to encrypt data, file compression and it's high fault tolerance.

The only reason to stick with fat32 on an nt os is if compatibility with other os' (9x/linux) is mandatory.
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Old 17th May 2003, 14:00   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Viper007Bond
I presonally love NTFS. It has encription built right into it and, if you want, encrypts all of your files with your username and password.

We'll hvae to get a NTFS guru's response though for the technical side of it.
How exactly would you encrypt something like that?
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Old 17th May 2003, 14:23   #9
Atmo
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoldenSphynx
How exactly would you encrypt something like that?
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p...ncryptdata.asp

I dont reccomend using it unless you know what you're doing though. If you forget to export your encryption key and your install goes sour for some reason or another you can kiss your data goodbye.
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Old 17th May 2003, 16:00   #10
papadoc
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I had a 45GB hd with WinME and 256MB ram.
I just finished adding another 120GB 7200rpm 8MB cache drive,
with WinXP SP1 Pro, and increased my ram to 768MB.
Ater I got all the applications loaded on the 120,
I moved all the data over, reformatted the 45,
and changed the file system to NTFS.
Then moved all the music files & photoshop/illustrator/pagemaker files
back to the 45 and use it for storage.
So far thats all I've done, but I'm still learning.
The reason I say all this is to let you know how good
WinXP is with disk management,
and how stable the NTFS file system seems.

And is it just me or does Winamp sound better with XP?
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Old 17th May 2003, 16:10   #11
ujay
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My plan -

1 Gig for Windows
2 Gigs for Programs
3 Gigs for Downloads(not music/video) and the Swap file
and split the rest in two(music/video and archive).

The small partitions are handy when it comes to defraging.

UJ
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Old 17th May 2003, 16:26   #12
papadoc
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Can you partition each drive?
Or would it be worth it to do that?
(After this I'll go away and let you folks help primenumber)
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Old 17th May 2003, 16:41   #13
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No reson why you shouldn't papadoc.
In that situation partitioning is just equivalent to adding another layer to the folder hierarchy, you would get the same result as having two seperate folders on a single partition.
Maybe you would save a little space using partitions if you have a lot of small files because of a smaller cluster size.
It would help in defraging, but this is not such a problem with XP.

UJ
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Old 17th May 2003, 16:44   #14
Atmo
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With ntfs there really isnt that much reason to have multiple partitions unless you format often and dont have a backup drive handy.

My current setup is a bit of a mess:

Primary master- 60gb seagate baracuda IV

Partition 1 30gb (windows and programs)
Partition 2 10gb (documents and work files)
Partition 3 10gb (build drive)
Partition 4 10gb (temp backup)

Primary slave- 20gb seagate baracuda IV

Partition 1 1gb (swap)
Partition 2 19gb (music)

Of course the partitions arent those exact sizes (a 20gb drive isnt 20 real gb), but you get the idea.

I also have another 20gb drive i use for backups which i only connect when needed (lack of ide channels).

[edit] fixed typos...[/edit]
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Old 17th May 2003, 16:53   #15
ujay
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Quote:
Originally posted by Atmo
Parition 1 30gb (windows and programs)
Typo ???

UJ
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Old 18th May 2003, 00:18   #16
Viper007Bond
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoldenSphynx
How exactly would you encrypt something like that?
Right-click on the file or folder, hit "Properties", hit some tab down low (not on my computer right now, I think the tab is "Advanced") and then check the ecrypt box.

*EDIT* - Whoops, totally missed this post:

Quote:
Originally posted by Atmo
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p...ncryptdata.asp

I dont reccomend using it unless you know what you're doing though. If you forget to export your encryption key and your install goes sour for some reason or another you can kiss your data goodbye.

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Old 18th May 2003, 01:00   #17
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well you can use ntfs and use linux still. linux has support for reading ntfs.. but its write support they have put down as experimantel (actual kernel developers) ive done writes to ntfs before and its worked but if it doesnt work it could be dangerous.. basically if you are going to use ntfs take it that you will only have read access.. But saying this atleast linuxtries to be compatible shame windows cant read jack shit other than ntfs and fat32..

as for ntfs itself its the best file system microsoft has to offer currently but by no means is it the best..

check this http://www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html

any of you heard of the file system for longhorn aka winfs check how remarkably similar it sounds to this.

i only use linux but for windows i would say something along these lines.

2 gigs for windows itself

10 - 20 gigs for programs

then divide remaining space betwen all 4 so each gets a quarter of remaining space that way you all have your own private space for stuff.

that way each of you have your own little area with enough space. also get the biggest hard drive u can afford i gaurantee you you will use the space. concidering that an 80 gig drive has about 20 pounds difference to a 160 gig drive u may aswell spend 20 pounds / dollars more and get the extra space

the way i have my system right now (again its linux and its only for me )

is
/boot - 10 meg partition for kernel boot image ( u dont have to worry about this)
/ - 1 gig this is the root of the filesystem
were everything gets linked into also contains /etc which is where config files and system maintenance stuff goes in
<swap space> 1 gig of swap space
/usr - 20 gigs this is where all of my programs go into and 20 gigs is more than enough
/var - 4 gigs all of the system logs go in here as well as all the printer spooling
/home - 20 gigs this is where all of my personal stuff goes in. all of my notes and programs i use day to day which i dont want to have system wide access.

off of home i have
/home/media - 90 gigs this is where all my music and films go into

and the drives already stacked and im ordering another 160 gig (this ones 120)

if u can mirror something like how i have

keeping programs on a partition seperate to itself keeping windows to a directory sperate to itself having a swap drive (swap space or drives are virtual memory or paging memory, when your system doesnt have enough ram it can use hard disk to create virtual ram however best is usually not to use the swap space as it tends to start thrashing performance, if windows does allow then the swap drive is much better ) giving each of your selves a large enough chunk of storage to keep yourselves content then you should be cool.

as to ntfs vs fat32 neither of them are brilliant but ntfs is definatly the better choice although as said earlier u only get read access to it in linux and remember.. this means in windows u get to see nothing of the linux partition because windows cant understand the filesystem..
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Old 18th May 2003, 01:44   #18
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I currently have a 5 GB partition for Win2k and instalation files. I keep it at around 1 GB free space, the rest of the 19.5 GB hdd is partitiond for my music, which is damn near full (13.4 GB of music).

I also have an 80 GB WD as slave, not partitioned. On that is some of my anime and movies, setup files (ie: warez), operating system ISO's, and a ghost backup of my 98se before i upgraded to 2k.

Hooked to this PC via a router is my 2nd PC. it has a 40 GB WD set as master, with a 5 GB partition for Win98se and instalation files, currently 2.98 GB free. it has another 5 GB partition for ghost image files for that OS, the remaining 24.5 GB is my 2nd (backup, so to say) of my music. Currently it has 13.4 GB. Need to back up the newer stuff i have.

2nd PC also has an 80 GB drive. This is split into 32.2 and 44.4 GB each. Thoes have more anime and movies, as well as other setup files (ie: warez again...) as well as other misc. stuff.

This PC has drives A, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J and a K when i hook my digicam up. 2nd PC has drives A, C, D, E, F, G, H and I.

*pant, pant, pant*

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Old 18th May 2003, 02:51   #19
Viper007Bond
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Damn, that's a lot of drives!

I bought my Dell PC, so it only has a C drive. And I don't want to loose everything with a format.

I'll build my next one and partition the hell out of it.

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Old 18th May 2003, 10:26   #20
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More Questions

Sorry for the lack of replies.

I partially followed dylman advice by buying more than I need. I bought a 120GB drive. I still think it's too much space but there was a time when I never thought about having to add more than the 10GB we have.

So it would be wise for me to create a swap partition? To create, right-click on My Computer -> Properties -> Performance tab -> Virtual Memory, correct? Should the swap be a particular size (ex. x% of total drive space or 2 times ram amount)? Does this swap partition need to be formatted? Should it be near the Windows partition (in drive letter, so I suppose, making it physically near also)?

Thanks, Atmo, for that suggestion about selecting the drive in the BIOS. I only want to install Mandrake so I can play with it. I'm sure that I am the only one that will be using it.

So now that I know how much space I have, what would be the best way to divide the drive?

1GB (or is 2 better?) Windows
1GB Swap
15GB My music
15GB My dad's music
88GB Programs, games, etc.

I realize that by using Win98, I will have wasted space. I have XP on my laptop (and like it much better) but my dad wants to keep Win98 on this computer. Certain games wouldn't work with XP anyways.

Just one more note: Although there are four people using the computer, I am the one using the most space. My dad only uses the computer for word processing, music, and internet. The other 2 basically just use it only for internet but not often.

Thanks for everyone's help.
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Old 18th May 2003, 12:03   #21
Atmo
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Re: More Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by primenumber
1GB (or is 2 better?) Windows
1GB Swap
15GB My music
15GB My dad's music
88GB Programs, games, etc.

I realize that by using Win98, I will have wasted space. I have XP on my laptop (and like it much better) but my dad wants to keep Win98 on this computer. Certain games wouldn't work with XP anyways.
I'd go:

1gb swap
30gb windows and programs
30gb documents & build files
30gb music (make seperate folders for yours and your dads music)
29gb backup

I'd install programs to the same partition as windows, otherwise you'll need to wipe both the windows and programs/games partition when you want to reinstall windows. If you put your documents and stuff on that partition you'd then need to back it up to cdr or another drive before re-installing.

Keeping the partition size under 32gb keeps the cluster size down to 16kb, so you'll save quite a bit of space if you have a lot of smaller files.

You could of course use the last partition to install xp and dual boot. If you keep the music and documents partitions fat32 you'll have access to them from both versions of windows (actually you could format the xp drive with fat32 also if you wish).
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Old 18th May 2003, 16:33   #22
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I have a 40 GB hdd and a 120GB hdd. the 120 is partitioned into a 25GB partition for windows and all the programs I have on my C: drove(I haven't installed anything extra to this drive since I switched over from my 20 GB HDD), 95GB for my music, videos and games, the 40 GB is split into two 20 GB partitions, neither of which I've used too much right now, I'm thinking of moving my games over to this drive, and using my 95GB partition as a storage drive. and one last thing, since I have 2 CD drives, I have drives A, C,D,E,F,G,H and I when I plug in my camera

PS, if you have Nortons systemworks, and you usually leave you PC on all the time, I would suggest that you set it up so that it automatically defrags each of your HDD's once a week at 4am, when you're probably not on the PC, this way, you never have to worry about remembering to defrag your HDD's and since they get defraged once a week, each defrag dosen't last more than 1.5 hrs.
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Old 18th May 2003, 16:59   #23
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God you guy's must love hard work * scratches head* *sighs* One drive -one partition simple easy and never a prob. Back your data up at the end of every week/month or straight away if it's important...just don't finalize the CD-r till it's full....

Strolls of wondering why peeps have to make there life so difficult........

all you have to do then is make up a decent filing system and name them 1 Your stuff. 2 dads stuff.

You want encryption? use 'Blowfish' 128bit Algorythm encryption/ military spec...back Engineer...? NOT! [where I keep my designs/inventions] and if you do find it and use it DO NOT I Repeat DO NOT forget your password. or you lose your data till you do remember!











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