Old 17th July 2003, 15:54   #1
ryan
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$250,000 for uploading one file to P2P.

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A new bill proposed in Congress on Wednesday would land a person in prison for five years and impose a fine of $250,000 for uploading a single file to a peer-to-peer network.

The bill was introduced by Reps. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) and Howard Berman (D-Calif.). They said the bill is designed to increase domestic and international enforcement of copyright laws.


More specifically, the bill targets peer-to-peer file trading, an aide working for the congressmen said. The law is meant to keep up with changing technology.

Content like movies, music and software are the country's No. 1 export, but the creators are being hurt by people who use technology to get the content for free, Conyers said.

Jason Schultz, a staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, called the bill "a sign of desperation" by the recording industry and Hollywood as they try to hold on to their business models.

The bill, called the Author, Consumer and Computer Owner Protection and Security Act of 2003, or ACCOPS, would allocate more money to the justice department to investigate copyright crimes: up to $15 million a year, compared with the current budget of $10 million. The bill would also enable information sharing between countries to help in copyright enforcement abroad.

The bill "clarifies" that uploading a single file of copyright content qualifies as a felony. Penalties for such an offense include up to five years in prison and up to a $250,000 fine. In addition, filming a movie in a theater without authorization would immediately qualify as a federal offense.

"We're giving notice that this is something we want specific attention paid to," said the aide. "The current law is very general."

ACCOPS also mandates that file-sharing websites must get consent from consumers to search their computers for content or to store files. In addition, those who provide false information when registering a domain name could also be charged with a federal offense.

Last year, Rep. Berman introduced a bill that would protect copyright holders from liability if they impaired or disrupted the unauthorized distribution of their content on P2P networks. The bill is still being debated.

EFF's Schultz said ACCOPS shows that the recording and movie industries "don't care what kinds of collateral damage they create." Sufficient laws are in place to punish those who violate copyright law, he said.

Plus, the poorly written bill sets up an unnecessarily wide dragnet, Schultz said. It criminalizes the placement of any copyright work on a computer network.

"If you have a file stored on your computer and your computer is connected to a publicly available network, you may not even know that you are committing a felony, but this law could put you in jail," he said.

"There have been hearings, year in and year out, and consumers have not complained about anything that is going on in this bill," Schultz said. "The only people complaining are the content industry folks.

"The content industry is asking the public to fund this kind of an effort against themselves."
http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,59654,00.html
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Old 17th July 2003, 16:42   #2
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I wonder how many times Hillary Rosen had to take
Conyers and Berman to bed with her to get this bill written?
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Old 17th July 2003, 17:19   #3
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well, shit.
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Old 17th July 2003, 17:27   #4
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Don't these bills take years to pass into law anyway??? I wouldn't worry until it happens (if it happens). I'm not scared.

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Old 17th July 2003, 18:18   #5
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i'm gonna stick these congressmen's children with $500,000 fines for uploading two songs and see how they like it.

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Old 17th July 2003, 19:23   #6
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so it would be illegal to upload a file even if you owned the copyright to it or if it was a part of the public domain? That's BS.
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Old 17th July 2003, 21:52   #7
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I didn't think it was physically possible, but they actually have their heads up their asses.
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Old 17th July 2003, 22:13   #8
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so...sad.... oh RIAA: when the madness wil stop?


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Old 17th July 2003, 23:11   #9
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It's like, hellooooooo... Can you see light with your head so far up your ass? hahahaa
Try N' stop me
Until that bill's passed - or when the guy gets thrown in jail for proposing that BS - or:
Quote:
Originally posted by papadoc:
I wonder how many times Hillary Rosen had to take Conyers and Berman to bed with her to get this bill written?
HAHAHAHAA... anyway, until that happens... Free downloads for all!
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Old 18th July 2003, 00:07   #10
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Well, if they're so concerned about stoping piracy, why don't they tell the record companies to lower their prices to something with in reason. Just a hunch, but I think that might help.

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Old 18th July 2003, 07:01   #11
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I think Europe & America will go separate ways on this. As far as I'm aware, the Government in Westminster haven't given p2p top priority. I've heard nothing even about debates on the subject. Nothing! It seems there are more pressing issues (like global warming for instance).

There's no like-for-like equivalent to the RIAA in the Europe. And the RIAA as a US body won't have much clout over here given the current sentiment.

My perspective of Washington is it only cares about citizen joe at election time. The rest of the time, money rules the roost in a big way.

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Old 18th July 2003, 09:36   #12
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Cylob is right, I think, people in Europe wouldn't accept to see a US organization trying to impose the US law in their countries.
Besides, the French president didn't even know what a 'mouse'is, I guess he'll be dead before he understands the very concept of P2P
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Old 18th July 2003, 10:53   #13
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One word, WASTE.

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Old 18th July 2003, 11:24   #14
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I'm not wasting my time with replying any longer . I"ve been voiceing my opinion for years to no avail.. And I don't even download or upload. I give up. When will the madness stop.
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Old 18th July 2003, 12:20   #15
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actually what wish is refering to is WASTE a secured file sharing porgram or protocol (not sure about that) that Justin frankel released.

Big-assed signature deleted by errr.. whats his name again??
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Old 23rd July 2003, 04:35   #16
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The bill was introduced by Reps. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) and Howard Berman (D-Calif.).
Now I know who to shoot.
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Old 23rd July 2003, 05:26   #17
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the democrats
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Old 23rd July 2003, 06:00   #18
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Money grubbing greedy bastards....Makes me sick...You could get thrown in jail with murderers and rapists and the likes just for Uploading ONE file? I could see that now...."What are you in for?"
"I killed three people, you?" "I uploaded Something About Mary onto Kazaa." God...
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Old 23rd July 2003, 06:43   #19
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upload them to where? a p2p? I don't really upload, people take from me, you know? And I share mostly movies. maybe thier illegal, but I think the Movie companies learned thier lesson with the VCR battle. Which kind of echoes this one. Hmm.

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Old 23rd July 2003, 16:48   #20
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also, as a convicted felon you lose your right to vote. though based on the competence of the people running the voting station the last time I went to vote, you'd probably be able to get away with voting anyway.
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Old 25th July 2003, 08:04   #21
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"A new bill proposed in Congress on Wednesday would land a person in prison for five years and impose a fine of $250,000 for uploading a single file to a peer-to-peer network."

key word there being uploaded. does that mean you can still dl from kazaa, etc?

regardless i'm not paying $20 for a 10-song cd. bump that, i'll dl from the prison library.....lars ulrich eat your heart out!
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Old 25th July 2003, 08:56   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigShane
key word there being uploaded. does that mean you can still dl from kazaa, etc?
if you're downloading the file, the person you're downloading it from is uploading it. so as far as this seems to go, it's still legal for you to download.

good luck finding people willing to risk the fines in order that you can download files off of them, though.

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Old 25th July 2003, 14:09   #23
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Seems the only network they know about is Kazaa, and perhaps eDonkey. Long live Bit Torrent and Direct Connect.


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Old 26th July 2003, 01:04   #24
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The law is not practical at all. I mean I bet half of America has atleast one song or one burned CD in their possesion. What a half assed attempt at controling burgeoning online music file sharing. Especially the 250k fine, they would have to be ludicrous to impose that. This bill is just going to get caught up in one of the committees and disappear.
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Old 28th July 2003, 10:37   #25
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It just doens't make any sense throwing 15 million into putting relitavely harmless people into prision, taking away their voting rights away and fining them 250k, and for what putting ONE file on a P2P network. *sigh* Look what the land of the free has turned into. What will other countries think of us if this bill is passed, "yeah those Americans, almost half of their population is now in jail because they used Kazaa." People with out lots extra $$$ (like myself) use P2P to get free stuff, what does that leave not in jail, RICH YUPPIE ASSES. *sigh* Completely innocent people go to jail with convicted seriel killers, fun fun
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Old 28th July 2003, 18:56   #26
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There is no way they can jail 50 million people.

The law makers are going about dealing with this situation in the wrong way. The question should not be "how can we stop 50 million people from breaking this law?" instead the question should be, "Why are 50 million people breaking this law?"
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Old 1st August 2003, 08:22   #27
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How would they know it was you who downloaded the file? How would they know if it was your computer you used? How would they enforce the law if they don't know who you are?

There is no sig.
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Old 1st August 2003, 12:54   #28
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They can find out who's downloading and uploading. They aren't going after the downloaders, though. Just the uploaders.
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Old 1st August 2003, 13:31   #29
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While i think it's fair to say that CDs are generally overpriced (certainly here in the UK, I can't speak for the US), I'm not at all convinced that this is really to blame for file sharing being so widespread, although it would certainly contribute significantly. Filesharing is popular because people can get, for free, something they want that should normally cost money. Even if CDs were more fairly priced they would still cost a significant sum and therefore provide a big incentive not to pay if possible. If you could steal DVD players and TVs without leaving the comfort of your own home and be sure of getting away with it, I think many people would be doing that as well, not that I am saying that would be morally equivalent.

by the way I do download music, just to put the above into context, even though I accept it is effectively stealing. I justify it to myself because the majority of what I download I would not (bother to/be able to) buy otherwise.
I certainly don't think fining individuals is sensible, and the huge sums suggested are outrageously disproportionate.
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Old 1st August 2003, 13:43   #30
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Nothing will revive this billion-dollar industry like suing a bunch of teenagers.
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Old 1st August 2003, 17:11   #31
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oh!
wonder of this money!
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Old 17th August 2003, 00:23   #32
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I know where the gov can get the money to hold all the people... the $250k for each uploaded file, Id owe them a few billion so lets see them try to get that much from a kid whose parents are on welfare. How would they do that? can they? where does the money go?
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Old 17th August 2003, 06:52   #33
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how can they know who uploaded the file, maybe someone else did it on your computer.

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Old 18th August 2003, 02:20   #34
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Coman,
This is the american government, known for shooting first and asking questions later. They will throw you in jail and then ask that someone prove you innocent at your cost, and no settlement will me made, because as with so many things in this corrupt world, it was right to do it because a bunch of political whores forgot that they are servants and not rulers.

Also, my opinion on this issue, I know many who would not realise they were sharing, so this would have to be a valid argument and the fascists/greedy record companies would have to prove that the person knew they had the illegal content and were knowingly sharing it. Also one thing I do ask, is it not illegal for the record companies to demand details of users? Surely america has some valid Protection of Information act. Not that anything matters in that country. The USA is big business's BITCH for all eternity. This would not happen with a socialist government.

I'm not paranoid, they really are after you.
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Old 18th August 2003, 03:45   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by nemesis1981
This would not happen with a socialist government.
nor would say, free speech or forth amendment rights. so then this whole arguement would be moot considering the gov could just be like blah and take your internet. bad socialist, bad.
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Old 18th August 2003, 16:37   #36
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Well i guess i owe: 20 files a day (a low average) * 365 days (approx) * $250,000 = $1,825,000,000 omfg!!! over a billion dollars, what a joke.
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Old 18th August 2003, 17:55   #37
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it won't be a joke when they ask you for it.


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Old 19th August 2003, 16:02   #38
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BigShane,
My reply to you is simple. You are thinking of a communist or a fascist government. A socialist government puts the people before the big businesses, unlike the usa government, which could do a lot more for its people. I fully admit, the politicians in my country too are running away with themselves here, thinking they can dictate to us what we need, how we should think and all that crap. They forget who gives them their jobs sometimes, who pays their wages, but in the end all governments are corruptable, because they are made of people who no matter what still want more than they have. The difference in theory with a more socialist government is that the rich get taxed more so there is more money for the needs (not wants) of the poor, so everyone in the country at least has a decent basic standard of living, by which I mean, a place to live, enough money for food on their table, an education, access to literature, and many other things the rich take for granted. I know I am in the poorer section of society, but I lack for nothing. I am happy with what I have and this is more than I can say for many in a very capitalist and oppresive society. Also Im not a communist and think capitalism is ok, but a combination would be better.

I'm not paranoid, they really are after you.
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Old 22nd August 2003, 05:02   #39
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Originally posted by nemesis1981
A socialist government puts the people before the big businesses,
Wrong, a socialist government puts themselves before ANYTHING else. Just for starters, ask them about their big fat paychecks, pension plans and benefits. Then look for their involvement in big business, and the conflict of interest that brings, about which they don't care anyway.

A socialist government is among the most corrupt you'll be able to find, just because they pretend to be better than the rest. They are not.
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