Old 27th March 2011, 18:27   #1
Bellzemos
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Volume leveling

Hello!

Long time WinAmp user here. I used DPS Octimax plugin for WinAmp to level volume of the songs "on the fly" and was happy with it. But now I have a new PC with Windows 7 and DSP Octimax doesn't support Windows 7. So now I tried RockSteady but it's not good enough. The louder songs are still much louder than the quieter ones. And if I harden the compression the songs sound unnatural.

So, is there any (free or paid) WinAmp plugin for "on the fly" automatic volume leveling that works in Windows 7?

Thank you!
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Old 28th March 2011, 16:18   #2
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I personally just use the ReplayGain feature included with Winamp.
To enable and configure: Winamp > Prefs > Playback > Replay Gain
To use: Select and right-click tracks > Send To > Calculate Replay Gain
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Old 28th March 2011, 17:04   #3
Bellzemos
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Hm, I'd rather use a good plugin... Can you tell me (in short) how ReplayGain works? Does it modify the MP3 files themselves or just stores the info for WinAmp somewhere? How is the sound quality, is it over-compressed or is it naturally sounding? Thank you!
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Old 29th March 2011, 10:59   #4
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ReplayGain analyzes the files and then saves the volume level to the metedata/tags. Upon the playback of the files the volume is changes based on the data. So effectively, after the files are analyzed changes are made on the fly during playback. As to the quality and volume of the files, there are no changes to the files them selves. The exception being the changes to the volume data in the tags/metadata.

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Old 29th March 2011, 15:32   #5
Bellzemos
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So there is no other way, no plugins in vein of Octimax or RockSteady for WinAmp?

I have a program (ID3Kill) which I use to remove ID3v1 and ID3v2 tags from MP3 files, does that mean that it will remove the ReplayGain "loudness metadata" too?
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Old 29th March 2011, 23:51   #6
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I am not too familiar with ID3Kill, however it would make sense that ID3Kill would remove the gain data.

As for another plug-in, maybe KMG_Dynamic_Volume20. Not having used it, I can't give it a review. Anyone else with suggestions?
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Old 3rd April 2011, 18:25   #7
Bellzemos
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I tried this one and two more volume leveling plugins but wasn't really happy with any of them, so I went and tried the ReplayGain function - I just applied ReplayGain on my whole MP3 collection (~9000 files) and it seems that I'll be good for about 5 hours or so. Those are many albums and compilations, so I should probably save (and play) them as tracks, not as albums, right? When I'll make some more MP3s from my CDs - how do I apply the ReplayGain to them to level them with my MP3 collection? Do I have to copy them to my MP3 collection folder and do it all over or can I just do that one album - but how do I set it so that the volume level will be the same as all the others in my MP3 collection? And how is it with the MPC and other file formats, does ReplayGain work with them too? Thanx!
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Old 4th April 2011, 23:41   #8
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I am the wrong person to ask, as I don't use ReplayGain or a volume leveler. However, there are a couple guides that may prove helpful
Winamp Tutorial: Automatic Volume Leveling in Winamp with Replay Gain
Winamp Help > General Preferences: Playback > Replay Gain
As for MPC (Musepack) support with RaplyGain that would depend on the plug-in you are using.
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Old 5th April 2011, 02:38   #9
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in winamp, RG is a plugin, and it works PERFECTLY, without touching the actual audio. metadata tags are added, and u just tell winamp to use them, (track or album).

its all i use, why use anything else?

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Old 7th April 2011, 18:47   #10
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You guys are right, I will use RG but please help me clear something (I didn't find the answer for this in WinAmp BG help or tutorial): I have a large collection of MP3's on my disk (around 9000 songs in about 900 albums), so should I set BG to calculate gain per album or per track? Per track would be right I guess, but I don't know why Winamp help states that per album is the recommended option?

And then, if I make more MP3's off my CDs for example, do I have to calculate only their RG or do I have to recalculate the whole collection + the new MP3 album to level it all up to the same volume?

Thank you!
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Old 7th April 2011, 18:53   #11
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per album includes both album/track data, so do that one.

your last question dosn't make any sense. every album stands alone. rating one or adding one or whatever doesn't impact earlier/other ones. just apply RG to every ALBUM as you add them.

also be sure to go into prefs and tell RG that it doesn't need to wait to add tags.

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Old 8th April 2011, 15:59   #12
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Yes, I worte it down a little weird, sorry. So: I oftenly load my whole collection in WinAmp and play it with a shuffle setting on. If I do it with "per album" option, will all the tracks be played at the same volume?

Also, if I understand correctly, RG volume is set to a predetermined (adjustable) loudness, so every new album (or compilation) will also have the same RG volume as the old collection? Meaning that I only have to calculate the new MP3's RG and can then copy them to my collection and all (new and old) MP3's will have the same volume? If that's so then it's a really great function!

"also be sure to go into prefs and tell RG that it doesn't need to wait to add tags." - I can't find this option, where is it exactly?

Thanx!
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Old 8th April 2011, 23:48   #13
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i don't understand what you're not getting. you'll need to experiment some yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellzemos View Post
Yes, I worte it down a little weird, sorry. So: I oftenly load my whole collection in WinAmp and play it with a shuffle setting on. If I do it with "per album" option, will all the tracks be played at the same volume?
go to prefs > playback > replay gain

you set the option you want used there.

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Originally Posted by Bellzemos View Post
Also, if I understand correctly, RG volume is set to a predetermined (adjustable) loudness, so every new album (or compilation) will also have the same RG volume as the old collection? Meaning that I only have to calculate the new MP3's RG and can then copy them to my collection and all (new and old) MP3's will have the same volume? If that's so then it's a really great function!
the whole point of RG is that that everything has the same volume.

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Originally Posted by Bellzemos View Post
"also be sure to go into prefs and tell RG that it doesn't need to wait to add tags." - I can't find this option, where is it exactly?

Thanx!
same as above.

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Old 13th April 2011, 15:28   #14
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So, what exactly will be different if I clikck here on Save Track data or Save as Album? Please tell, thank you.
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Old 13th April 2011, 15:35   #15
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If you save track data, only the track gain and peak will be written to the files, which makes sense if they're from different albums. But in this case you should save as album, then you'll get both track and album gain and be able to choose between them on playback.
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Old 14th April 2011, 17:41   #16
Bellzemos
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I see. But why is it good to have album gain & peak if I already have track gain & peak? I don't understand.

I sometimes listen to whole albums and sometimes I load my whole MP3 collection to WinAmp playlist and play it with "shuffle" on.
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Old 15th April 2011, 02:10   #17
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Sometimes, an album has loud songs and soft songs. Album gain adjusts the amplification of all songs by an equal amount thereby keeping the relative difference between loud and soft songs on any particular album. Track gain adjusts each song by a different amount and results in all songs being played at the same volume.

So it depends on what you like and how you listen to music.

It you like listening to entire albums from start to finish then you would probably use Album Gain. Back in the good old days (the 70's), the days of "Album Rock", old fogey's like me would sit around in some shitty apartment, get high, drink beer and listen to album after album on a turntable.

If you create a playlist of tracks from various albums and artists then you would probably use Track Gain so you won't have to constantly change the volume for each track. This is especially important if you have not ripped the tracks yourself and/or have not standardized the amplification. Nowadays, I download digital music from various sources and randomize the tracks into a 30,000+ track playlist.

My suggestion is to save both track gain and album gain. The RelayGain used in Winamp does not change the audio quality. It only writes tags to the audio file (just like Artist, Composer etc.) which can be easily removed (or changed) with tagging software like Mp3tag. And because it takes a lot of time and CPU activity, you might as well get it over with all at once. Decide later which will be used. We have the choice in Winamp.

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Old 15th April 2011, 12:25   #18
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Another vote for Album ReplayGain...Track is only useful if you're doing a DJ set IMHO

If you use FFSoX as an input plugin you can apply the ReplaGain there, removing the need for any volume processing in Winamp, allegedly the sound quality is improved marginally...although I can't tell the difference.

But as I'm using it for resampling (FLAC from 16/44.1 to 24/96) I might as well apply replaygain there too (but remember to turn it off in winamp otherwise you'll be applying it twice), oh and it has a replaygain preamp function...which is only available in the pro version of winamp.

On average, using album replay gain, you'll loose about 6dB roughly overall, the preamp will allow you to boost back up a few dB, I've found +3dB works very well without clipping
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Old 15th April 2011, 13:58   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellzemos View Post
I see. But why is it good to have album gain & peak if I already have track gain & peak? I don't understand.

I sometimes listen to whole albums and sometimes I load my whole MP3 collection to WinAmp playlist and play it with "shuffle" on.
any time you shuffle artists or tracks, you should set winamp to use track gain on playback. if however, you listen to albums in sequential track order, thats the only time you use album gain. very easy, straightforward rule.

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But as I'm using it for resampling (FLAC from 16/44.1 to 24/96) I might as well apply replaygain there too (but remember to turn it off in winamp otherwise you'll be applying it twice), oh and it has a replaygain preamp function...which is only available in the pro version of winamp.

On average, using album replay gain, you'll loose about 6dB roughly overall, the preamp will allow you to boost back up a few dB, I've found +3dB works very well without clipping
don't know why you upsample or would ally RG values to the audio itself, i wouldn't do either.

the winamp RG preamp is available in the FREE version too btw.

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Old 15th April 2011, 14:46   #20
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Quote:
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don't know why you upsample or would ally RG values to the audio itself, i wouldn't do either.

the winamp RG preamp is available in the FREE version too btw.
I was once of the same opinion until I tried standard 16/44.1 FLAC with FFSoX upsampling to 24/96, into winamp, into an M-Audio 2496 SPDIF, and then into a Beresford 24/96 DAC.

There's a noticeable improvement in sound quality, not massive, but enough for me to keep it turned on. Perhaps it makes life easier for the SC or the DAC...it's free after all and quite simple to configure.

The top end is a little smoother and more detailed...

I certainly wouldn't want to do this to my source, but doing it on the fly at input time is a nice option, and SoX is currently one of the best resamplers available.

http://in-ffsox.sourceforge.net/

If you have the appropriate kit give it a try, then tell me it's not an improvement

RG preamp must now be part of 5.61, oh well I've got pro now anyway
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Old 15th April 2011, 15:40   #21
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I have about 9000 MP3 tracks (albums, compilations... whatnot). I will process them over night - all at once. And in the morning, should I save them as Album or Track data? The thing is: I sometimes listen to whole albums and sometimes to a whole collection with shuffle mode on. So what would be best for me, to save it as Track data I guess? If I save them as Albums (whole collection) I will still be geting different volume levels, right? And for the newly ripped albums that I will add to my collection - should I process them as albums or tracks again? Will they be on the same volume as my old collection then?

I'm sorry for being a PITA with my questions, but I really don't get it all.
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Old 15th April 2011, 16:04   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellzemos View Post
I have about 9000 MP3 tracks (albums, compilations... whatnot). I will process them over night - all at once. And in the morning, should I save them as Album or Track data? The thing is: I sometimes listen to whole albums and sometimes to a whole collection with shuffle mode on. So what would be best for me, to save it as Track data I guess? If I save them as Albums (whole collection) I will still be geting different volume levels, right? And for the newly ripped albums that I will add to my collection - should I process them as albums or tracks again? Will they be on the same volume as my old collection then?

I'm sorry for being a PITA with my questions, but I really don't get it all.
First of all replaygain will write both album and track, track is absolutely pointless IMHO, album leaves everything as is relatively in the album, so quiet tracks are quiet, loud tracks are loud, it just adjusts the overall album volume, up or down relative to an abstract benchmark.

Before you do your batch overnight job go to options/preferences/playback/replaygain and uncheck the 'ask before writing' tag, otherwise it'll be a mess.

When you instruct winamp to do it make sure you use the album panel in the media library, right mouse click 'All (nnnn)' at the top and send to calculate replay gain, it will then do both album and track for you, and the album gain calculation will be accurate, as you've calculated all the tracks in the album together.

P.S. You can add album gain as an optional column to the album panel, helps to show if you've missed any.
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Old 15th April 2011, 16:27   #23
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Let me put it another way...

There is no benefit, audiowise, to upsample.

any benefit you are getting may first of all be imagined, or as a result of better gear. but you can't improve the orig source audiowise by upsampling/re-encoding it. its like saying a 32kbps mp3 sounds better when made into a FLAC.

also, i don't know how you apply the gain, but i wouldn't do it during the upsample process to the actual audio. if i were to upsample, then after that was done, THEN i would apply RG tags again.

Quote:
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I was once of the same opinion until I tried standard 16/44.1 FLAC with FFSoX upsampling to 24/96, into winamp, into an M-Audio 2496 SPDIF, and then into a Beresford 24/96 DAC.

There's a noticeable improvement in sound quality, not massive, but enough for me to keep it turned on. Perhaps it makes life easier for the SC or the DAC...it's free after all and quite simple to configure.

The top end is a little smoother and more detailed...

I certainly wouldn't want to do this to my source, but doing it on the fly at input time is a nice option, and SoX is currently one of the best resamplers available.

http://in-ffsox.sourceforge.net/

If you have the appropriate kit give it a try, then tell me it's not an improvement
don't have the gear. so you only do this to stream/listen? you don't create new end files this way?

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Originally Posted by wad62 View Post
RG preamp must now be part of 5.61, oh well I've got pro now anyway
no, its been standard for quite a while now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellzemos View Post
I have about 9000 MP3 tracks (albums, compilations... whatnot). I will process them over night - all at once. And in the morning, should I save them as Album or Track data?
in the prefs, just uncheck the "ask before writing" option and you won't have to worry about it.

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The thing is: I sometimes listen to whole albums and sometimes to a whole collection with shuffle mode on.
how you listen has nothing to do with how you write the tags. write all the tags. THEN AFTER THAT at playback time on winamp you can decide which tags to use. everyone uses track tags UNLESS they are listening to an album in sequential track order, then they use album tags. this really isn't complicated.

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So what would be best for me, to save it as Track data I guess? If I save them as Albums (whole collection) I will still be geting different volume levels, right? And for the newly ripped albums that I will add to my collection - should I process them as albums or tracks again? Will they be on the same volume as my old collection then?

I'm sorry for being a PITA with my questions, but I really don't get it all.
thats b/c you aren't listening to what is said. see above.

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First of all replaygain will write both album and track, track is absolutely pointless IMHO, album leaves everything as is relatively in the album, so quiet tracks are quiet, loud tracks are loud, it just adjusts the overall album volume, up or down relative to an abstract benchmark.
i don't know why you would tell him that. if i listen to a random mix, even of just one album, then i want track tags used.

its ONLY when you listen to an album in sequential track order, that you would want album tags used, to preserve the intended dynamic range/loudness across all the tracks of an lbum, where thats important, (like a pink floyd album as example).

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Before you do your batch overnight job go to options/preferences/playback/replaygain and uncheck the 'ask before writing' tag, otherwise it'll be a mess.
agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wad62 View Post
When you instruct winamp to do it make sure you use the album panel in the media library, right mouse click 'All (nnnn)' at the top and send to calculate replay gain, it will then do both album and track for you, and the album gain calculation will be accurate, as you've calculated all the tracks in the album together.

P.S. You can add album gain as an optional column to the album panel, helps to show if you've missed any.
as long as he selects and sends all tracks in his ML to RG analyzer it shouldn't matter.

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Old 15th April 2011, 16:55   #24
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How many times do I have to say it the FFSoX input plugin upsamples on the fly....I'm not changing the source FLAC it prepares it before feeding it into winamp.

I suggest you get some experience of it before you dismiss it based on assumptions, it's down to how 24/96 DACS work.

Check this thread out on the SB forums;

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84462

Album gain makes your whole collection sound as if it came from the same master, the relative volumes of quiet tracks and loud tracks are maintained within the context of each album, it's perfect for a random mix.

Track gain is only useful if you're doing a DJ set of similar type stuff, continuing with the pink floyd analogy if you use track gain on a random play list 'pigs on the wing' will sound as loud as 'sheep'...which is the last thing you want.
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Old 15th April 2011, 17:20   #25
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Quote:
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How many times do I have to say it the FFSoX input plugin upsamples on the fly....I'm not changing the source FLAC it prepares it before feeding it into winamp.

I suggest you get some experience of it before you dismiss it based on assumptions, it's down to how 24/96 DACS work.

Check this thread out on the SB forums;

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84462
this thread is about RG. you introduced these other esoteric ideas into it and i didn't quite follow what you are doing, but now that i do, it still doesn't make any sense.

at the slim thread, its clear most people agree that in and of itself, upsampling doesn't improve the sound (b/c it can't) and in fact it might hurt it. now, b/c the gear is better, the DAC and so on, one may perceive an improvement that is actually there, but upsampling is not the improvement, its just the necessary evil to get to the improvement.

do you disagree? do you think that somehow upsampling alone adds quality?

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Album gain makes your whole collection sound as if it came from the same master, the relative volumes of quiet tracks and loud tracks are maintained within the context of each album, it's perfect for a random mix.
this is totally incorrect. album gain is a value per album, not per collection not per track. the idea is to maintain the intended differences between tracks on any given album but to adjust them all in linear relationship to each other (up or down) to the reference level.

its important to note that a given album can have some tracks with +RG track values, while other tracks have -RG track values. but even if there is wide discrepency trackwise, they will all share ONE album RG value. this means you would NOT use album RG in a random mix, even if the random mix was just of that one album. this is b/c the album RG number can be very far removed from what the track RG would be. that would defeat the purpose of RG, your random mix would be at all different volume levels.

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Track gain is only useful if you're doing a DJ set of similar type stuff, continuing with the pink floyd analogy if you use track gain on a random play list 'pigs on the wing' will sound as loud as 'sheep'...which is the last thing you want.
track gain is useful for EVERY scenario EXCEPT playing an album in sequential track order. there is no point in miantaining the volume differences between tracks on a given album if they are played out of order.

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Old 15th April 2011, 19:03   #26
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1. Certain DACs will upsample by default to their given specification 24/96 etc., so by doing the upsampling via FFSoX using a quality algorithm such as SoX, prior to hitting the DAC, a certain workload can be removed from the DAC, leaving it to perform only the conversion, this could conceivably help the sound quality. Again I stress that until you are able to explore this area yourself it is better to retain an open mind.

2. I mentioned FFSoX because it can also perform replaygain with pre-amp, and I was labouring under the misapprehension that it was only available in the pro version, which you rightly corrected me on. And perhaps that there might be more audiophile minded members on the forum than yourself that have good enough equipment to benefit from it, this forum does not, I believe, belong to you exclusively.

However this takes the proverbial...

"there is no point in miantaining the volume differences between tracks on a given album if they are played out of order."

...I'll just leave you to think that one through again.

Anyway what sense can one expect from someone with the self appointed title of 'Major Dude'

Bored now...
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Old 15th April 2011, 19:39   #27
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i think we're on the same page re: upsampling.

interesting that you don't respond to the rest of what i said re: RG except this:

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However this takes the proverbial...

"there is no point in miantaining the volume differences between tracks on a given album if they are played out of order."

...I'll just leave you to think that one through again...
i don't need to. when the artist creates the album and cuts, they are deliberately intended to have differing volume levels in relation to one another, those intentions are only valid IF playback is in sequential track order, ie how the artist intended the ebb and flow of the playlist.

take dark side of the moon as an example, (mine is from the "shine on" box set):

all tracks have an album RG of -3.69

sequential track order:

speak to me +15.23 (quiet)
breathe -0.84 (louder than last track)
on the run +1.28 (quieter)
time -3.70 (louder)
great gig -2.87 (quieter)
money -5.57 (louder)
us and them -2.16 (quieter)
any color -2.45 (louder)
brain damage -2.10 (quieter)
eclipse -5.24 (louder)

now, you tell me, why would you apply album RG to play speak to me and then again apply album RG to play money as the next track?

the artist did not intend to have that range between those two tracks! (btw the artist deliberately alternates quiet/loud in this example)

the reference db level is 89db. so speak to me's true db level is: 73.77, while money's true db level is: 94.57. you would adjust both of them (from their true levels) down -3.69 when playing them back to back, but that is senseless. why do that? there is no intent by the artist for that to happen. the songs are like a chain, if you do them out of order, its no longer straight.

in fact, you went further and said you should use album RG on playback for your whole collection and then they all would sound like they are from one master! nonsense, thats just not true.

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Old 15th April 2011, 19:45   #28
wad62
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i think we're on the same page re: upsampling.

interesting that you don't respond to the rest of what i said re: RG except this:



i don't need to. when the artist creates the album and cuts, they are deliberately intended to have differing volume levels in relation to one another, those intentions are only valid IF playback is in sequential track order, ie how the artist intended the ebb and flow of the playlist.

take dark side of the moon as an example, (mine is from the "shine on" box set):

all tracks have an album RG of -3.69

sequential track order:

speak to me +15.23 (quiet)
breathe -0.84 (louder than last track)
on the run +1.28 (quieter)
time -3.70 (louder)
great gig -2.87 (quieter)
money -5.57 (louder)
us and them -2.16 (quieter)
any color -2.45 (louder)
brain damage -2.10 (quieter)
eclipse -5.24 (louder)

now, you tell me, why would you apply album RG to play speak to me and then again apply album RG to play money as the next track?

the artist did not intend to have that range between those two tracks! (btw the artist deliberately alternates quiet/loud in this example)

the reference db level is 89db. so speak to me's true db level is: 73.77, while money's true db level is: 94.57. you would adjust both of them (from their true levels) down -3.69 when playing them back to back, but that is senseless. why do that? there is no intent by the artist for that to happen. the songs are like a chain, if you do them out of order, its no longer straight.

in fact, you went further and said you should use album RG on playback for your whole collection and then they all would sound like they are from one master! nonsense, thats just not true.
...fine, complain to the album's producer
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Old 15th April 2011, 19:47   #29
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don't get mad b/c you said something erroneous. either admit you were wrong, (no shame in that), or show me why i'm wrong, (which i will be thankful for if so).

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Old 16th April 2011, 08:22   #30
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I left my machine to calculate RG for my whole MP3 collection over night and in the morning it was done (no prompt how to save it because I disabled that, as it was suggested). All the tracks have a RG per track value now and sound at the same volume level. I have no album RG data. When I'll be making new MP3 albums and adding them to the collection I will just use the same procedure and I guess it will again be saved only as track data and it's fine with me. I still don't get the benefit of a tag being saved as an album. Thank you all for help.
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Old 16th April 2011, 08:31   #31
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Mr Sinatra, perhaps you should check out the definition of the replay gain standard, here...

http://www.replaygain.org/

Track = 'Radio'
Album = 'Audiophile'

...and just in case you can't be bothered to follow the link here's a direct quote

Why two Replay Gains?

Under some listening conditions, it's useful to have every track sound equally loud. However, sometimes we want to leave the interntional loudness differences between tracks in place, whilst still correcting for unmusical and annoying changes in loudness between discs.

The Replay Gain proposal suggests that two different gain adjustments should be stored in the file header, as follows.

"Radio" Replay Gain adjustment

This will make all the tracks sound equally loud (as they do on the radio, hence the name!). If the ReplayGain is calculated on a track-by-track basis (i.e. an individual ReplayGain calculation is carried out for each track), this will be the result. This is something that ReplayGain does very well. Take a listen.

"Audiophile" Replay Gain adjustment

The problem with the "Radio" setting is that tracks which should be quiet will be brought up to the level of all the rest. For casual listening, or in a noisy background, this can be a good thing. For serious listening, it would be a nuisance. You don't want a solo flute track blasting at the same loudness as Iron Maiden!

To solve this problem, the "Audiophile" setting represents the ideal listening gain for each track. ReplayGain can have a good guess at this too, by reading the entire CD, and calculating a single gain adjustment for the whole disc. This works because quiet tracks then stay quiter than the rest, since the gain won't be changed for each track. It still solves the basic problem (annoying, unwanted level differences between discs) because quiet or loud discs are still adjusted overall - so the pop CD that's 20 dB louder than the classical CD will be brought into line.

Where ReplayGain will fail is if you have an entire CD of quiet music. It will bring it up to an average level. This is why the "Audiophile" Replay Gain adjustment must be user adjustable. The ReplayGain whole disc value represents a good guess, and should be stored in the file. Later, the user can tweak it if required.



Perhaps your system and listening habits are better suited to 'Radio'...I'll stick with 'Audiophile'
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Old 16th April 2011, 08:35   #32
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I left my machine to calculate RG for my whole MP3 collection over night and in the morning it was done (no prompt how to save it because I disabled that, as it was suggested). All the tracks have a RG per track value now and sound at the same volume level. I have no album RG data. When I'll be making new MP3 albums and adding them to the collection I will just use the same procedure and I guess it will again be saved only as track data and it's fine with me. I still don't get the benefit of a tag being saved as an album. Thank you all for help.
That's odd try unchecking the 'ask before writing' tag again and do one album on it's own, see if it asks you to save as track or album, select album, save, uncheck the prompt and do the rest again. It should do both

Track only may be the default...
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Old 16th April 2011, 10:16   #33
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WAD,

just b/c you fancy yourself an audiophile, and just b/c that link says that album RG = audiophile, doesn't mean that album RG should be used for anything other than a single album played back in sequential track order. in fact, the very idea that one form of RG is "audiophile" while another is not is absurd. the term doesn't apply to the function in any way. that document looks 10 year old btw and looks like a proposal. its simply not credible.

as i made clear, the whole point of album RG is to maintain the intended differences in volume (loudness) between tracks on the same album. thats why album RG exists. it does NOT exist, nor is it good for, a random mix of an album, and certainly not a random mix of your WHOLE collection. thats just absolutely clear.

look at dark side of the moon again:

in going from speak to me to breathe, there is an intended difference of 16.07db. that difference is MAINTAINED using album RG, (b/c both tracks are adjusted the same amount). however, the loudness difference between speak to me and money will NOT be 16.07db. (it will be whatever the math says, but not 16.07).

therefore you are getting loudness differences betwen tracks that are not intended, b/c the playback order is different.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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Old 16th April 2011, 10:19   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellzemos View Post
I left my machine to calculate RG for my whole MP3 collection over night and in the morning it was done (no prompt how to save it because I disabled that, as it was suggested). All the tracks have a RG per track value now and sound at the same volume level. I have no album RG data. When I'll be making new MP3 albums and adding them to the collection I will just use the same procedure and I guess it will again be saved only as track data and it's fine with me. I still don't get the benefit of a tag being saved as an album. Thank you all for help.
afaik, winamp writes both ALWAYS when you uncheck the pref, UNLESS you don't have album tags. in the ML, do a "view file info" on a track with album tags and see if the album RG value is there.

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Old 16th April 2011, 11:23   #35
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WAD,

just b/c you fancy yourself an audiophile, and just b/c that link says that album RG = audiophile, doesn't mean that album RG should be used for anything other than a single album played back in sequential track order. in fact, the very idea that one form of RG is "audiophile" while another is not is absurd. the term doesn't apply to the function in any way. that document looks 10 year old btw and looks like a proposal. its simply not credible.

as i made clear, the whole point of album RG is to maintain the intended differences in volume (loudness) between tracks on the same album. thats why album RG exists. it does NOT exist, nor is it good for, a random mix of an album, and certainly not a random mix of your WHOLE collection. thats just absolutely clear.

look at dark side of the moon again:

in going from speak to me to breathe, there is an intended difference of 16.07db. that difference is MAINTAINED using album RG, (b/c both tracks are adjusted the same amount). however, the loudness difference between speak to me and money will NOT be 16.07db. (it will be whatever the math says, but not 16.07).

therefore you are getting loudness differences betwen tracks that are not intended, b/c the playback order is different.
The term 'audiphile' is the replaygain org's term not mine, so take your argument up with them not me...you go your way I'll go their's, and we'll leave it at that

If you want to compress the dynamic range of your entire collection then that's up to you
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Old 16th April 2011, 15:03   #36
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If you want to compress the dynamic range of your entire collection then that's up to you
Dynamic range has nothing to with replay gain. The dynamic range of a recording is fixed at the time the recording is made. It may be reduced later by encoding into a lossy format but it is unaffected by player loudness settings.

What you have missed in this discussion is that the effect of applying replay gain of any type is no different than adjusting the player volume control. In fact, replay gain is simply a convenient method of permitting the player to store loudness presets for selections. No more, no less.

Doug M. in NJ
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Old 16th April 2011, 19:11   #37
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Dynamic range has nothing to with replay gain.
So if you artificially increase the volume of the quieter tracks in your collection, via track gain, you're not affecting the overall dynamic range of your collection?..I tend to disagree.

Dynamic range is indeed affected by the current 'loudness' trend, and what exactly is it?...Oh making the quieter bits a little louder, step back and have a think...

Whether it's a quieter track from an album, or a quieter passage within a track, the same principals apply
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Old 16th April 2011, 19:43   #38
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whats absurd about that POV is that different artists on different albums did not intend some tracks to be quieter (or louder) than others in a big random mix. also, it defeats the whole point of RG which is to bring differing tracks to the same volume level.

as retroman correctly points out, all RG is really for is keeping you, the listener, from having to make constant volume knob adjustments. and the only reason the album version of RG exists, is 1. to maintain the differences of volume intended by the artist in sequential track playback, and 2. to keep multiple albums played back at around the same avg volume, (meaning you play all of DSOTM in order, then Animals, etc... and the intent is to minimize volume adjustment during and between albums, while at the same time maintaining artist intended differences)

it has nothing to do with dynamic range, and you are the one artificially maintaining differences in volume, which leads to the question as to why you would use RG at all?

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Old 16th April 2011, 19:56   #39
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You can lead a horse to water...but sometimes you just can't get someone to understand a basic concept...shame really, your loss
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Old 16th April 2011, 20:00   #40
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listen, i don't begrudge you your way of listening to your music. i simply state, correctly, that there is no logical reason to do what you are saying.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87061

you are simply creating unintended and artificial differences in volume, that are no different than simply adjusting the volume knob up or down, that totally flies in the face of the purpose of RG tags to begin with.

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