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Old 3rd July 2006, 08:22   #1
gvastianos
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Would "manual Setup Of Backup Server" Will Be Possible In The Future?

HELLO EVERYBODY

IAM A LONGTIME USER OF SHOUTCAST AND IAM VERY SATISFIED WITH THIS PLATFORM.

AS WE KNOW ABOUT THE CLUSTERING (MULTIPLE USE OF BACKUP SERVERS) THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE A CLUSTER OF SERVERS IS ONLY VIA YP.SHOUTCAST.COM

THE CLUSTER IDEA IS VERY SMART AND WORKS GREAT ....BUT THE LAST PERIOD MANY SERVERS HAVE PROBLEMS TO GET PUBLISHED IN YP.SHOUTCAST.COM BECAUSE OF NAK ERROR 100. THE RESULT OF THIS IS THAT THE SERVERS OF A CLUSTER MAY BECOME "ORPHANS" AND NOT ABLE TO CONNECT IN THE CLUSTER.

ANOTHER PROBLEM IS THAT IN CASE THAT THE STREAM IS NOT PUBLIC BUT PRIVATE....THERE IS NO WAY TO HAVE A CLUSTER ...NOT EVEN A BACKUP SERVER JUST FOR REDIRECTION IN CASE THAT ONE SERVER IS FULL.

OF COURCE WE CAN SAY THAT WE HAVE TO BE PATIENT AND WAIT UNTIL THE NAK PROBLEMS IN YP WILL BE SOLVED..... BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD IDEA IF THE PROGRAMMERS OF SHOUTCAST COULD SUBMIT A NEW PARAMETER IN THE SHOUTCAST CONFIGURATION FILES IN ORDER TO ALLOW USER TO SET MANUALY THE IP OF THE BACKUP SERVER.

I KNOW THAT WE CANT HAVE A SOLUTION EQUAL TO A CLUSTER VIA THE YP.....

BUT IF WE ASSUME THAT THE MANUAL CONFIGURATION OF BACKUP SERVER....OVERRIDES ANY OTHER BACKUP SERVER ENTRY THAT MAY ARRIVE TO A SHOUTCAST SERVER VIA YP, THEN WE CAN HAVE A SMALL CLUSTER THAT WILL WORK IN DAISY CHAIN LOGIC

FOR EXAMPLE ASSUMING WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING 3 SERVERS
-----
SERVER-1
INPUT=ENCODER-A
ALLOWRELAY=YES
BACKUP=SERVER-2
-----
SERVER-2
INPUT=ENCODER-A OR SERVER-1
ALLOWRELAY=YES OR NO
BACKUP=SERVER-3
-----
SERVER-2
INPUT=ENCODER-A OR SERVER-1
ALLOWRELAY=YES OR NO
BACKUP=SERVER-1
-----

THE CONTENT COMES FROM THE ENCODER-A THAT MAY BE THE DSP IN THE STUDIO OF THE STATION, IF THE ENCODER-A CAN SEND THE STREAM TO 3 SERVERS AT THE SAME TIME (LIKE WINAMP DSP PLUGIN) THEN THE 3 SERVERS WILL BE SYNCRONIZED MY TIME, OTHERWISE WE SETUP SERVERS 2 AND 3 AS RELAYS TO SERVER 1.

NOW BY ASSUMING THAT ALL SERVERS WORKING...

THE LISTENER OPENS THE STREAM IN SERVER 1. IN CASE THE SERVER 1 IS FULL REDIRECTS TO SERVER 2. IN CASE THAT SERVER 2 IF FULL REDIRECTS TO SERVER 3....ETC

THE ONLY DRAWBACK IS THAT IN CASE THAT ONE SERVER IS NOT WORKING IS THAT THE CHAIN BRAKES

WITH THIS WAY I CAN HAVE A "CLUSTER" OF SOME STREAMS THAT THEY MAY BE PRIVATE...(IN PURPOSE OR BY ACCIDENT BECAUSE OF THE NAK 100 ERROR) AND IN CASE THAT ONE OF THOSE SERVERS IS ABLE TO PUBLISH ITSELF IN THE YP THEN EVERY LISTENER CLICKS TO TUNE IN THE STREAM FROM THE WWW.SHOUTCAST.COM GETS IN TO THE CHAIN AND CAN LISTEN EVEN IN CASE THAT THE PUBLISHED SERVER IF FULL...

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS IDEA???? WHOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR SHOUTCAST PROGRAMMERS TO ADD THIS FEATURE IN FUTURE VERSIONS??????????????

REGARDS
GEORGE VASTIANOS
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Old 3rd July 2006, 08:45   #2
bored_womble
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interesting coincidence ... but

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=250183

may help in the short term ... but perhaps only if you have a dedicated server or your hosting provider fancies a punt at it ...

BW

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Old 3rd July 2006, 13:35   #3
gvastianos
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THANKS FOR THE TRY....

BY THE WAY THIS IS NOT SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM. THE MAIN REASON IS THAT THE "SOLUTION" DESCRIBED IN

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread...threadid=250183

JUST TELL YOU HOW YOU CAN CHEAT YOUR SHOUTCAST SERVER TO USE A THIRD PARTY DIRECTORY SERVER INSTEAD OF YP.SHOUTCAST.COM

THE PROBLEM WITH THIS IS THAT YOU CANT USE IT WHEN YOU HAVE STREAMS IN A SHOUTCAST HOSTING PROVIDER...AND WORKS ONLY IF YOU HAVE YOUR DEDICATED PC. THE OTHER THING IS THAT THIS THIRD PARTY YP SERVER HAS ONLY 3 STREAMS INSIDE .... ITS COMPLETELY UNPOPULAR AND I THINK THAT NOBODY WILL VISIT THIS DIRECTORY. THE OTHER DRAWBACK THAT I FOUND AFTER THE TEST, IS THAT DOES NOT CREATE CLUSTERS. SO IF YOU HAVE 4 STREAMS YOU WILL SEE 4 ENTRIES INSTEAD OF ONE CLUSTER ENTRY.

ANYWAY DOES ANYONE HERE KNOWS HOW WE CAN CONTACT THE SHOUTCAST PROGRAMING TEAM???

I TRIED BUT I WASNT ABLE TO FIND EMAIL ADDRESSES OF THE TEAM

REGARDS

GV
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Old 3rd July 2006, 13:42   #4
bored_womble
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i think it is more aimed at providing the Shoutcast server cluster, rather than displaying a cluster ( thats what the thread says anyway ). I assume so when one Shoutcast server is 'Full' and you attempt to connect to it, it provides a redirect, rather than the 'Server Full' message people are complaining about.

What does the log say on the Shoutcast server, is a Backup server logged ? I would be interested to know ... and perhaps so would others as from reading some threads that is a problem for some of the larger broadcasters, none of the Backup/Clustering is working so when listeners try and connect they do not get redirected to a server with capacity.

If you are looking for some where to advertise your station ... I suspect it is not for you, as it appears quite new ... going by the thread.

BW

ps. use lower case ... considered shouting with caps.

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Old 3rd July 2006, 14:25   #5
gvastianos
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SINCE SHOUTCASTER....I HAVE TO SHOUT

i made again the test...

two servers running on my computer work as relay servers to a third. The two relay servers have the same stream title etc...and instead of being published in the directory of streamsolutions as a cluster entry appear as two separate streams.....

so when you start the server that connects to the directory of streamsolutions in ypport=12000...the server writes in the log that yp....added me!

you check the directory and your stream is listed with zero listeners, than you wait some minutes and your server starts to "touch" the yp of streamsolutions, after that you see the listeners of your stream but in any case you cant see the multiple streams as a cluster entry.

also after all these thouches with the directory i dont see any entry on both logs to say about "buffer server", so if one of the server is full you dont have redirection.

I remain that this 3rd party directory does not construct clusters.

By the way if someone has more than one streams and needs just redirection in case of full server WITHOUT YP ADVERTISMENT.....
then the solution is very simple we can create one pls or m3u playlist file and include in each line the stream of each server

eg:

listen.m3u
-------
http://123.123.123.123:8000
http://345.345.345.345:8001
http://567.567.567.567:8002

in this case we upload the listen.m3u in the website of the station and the listener clicks on the link. Then the player starts to try to connect if the 1st is full then it works as dead link in the playlist so it tries to connect to the next . In case that the second is not full the it will start to play the stream of the second and because the stream it is endless it will never try to connect to the 3rd server...

I hope you got the point ... BUT EVEN IN THIS CASE THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION TO WHAT I SEARCH FOR.

MY NEED IS TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE SERVER PUBLISHED IN THE YP.SHOUTCAST.COM AND TO HAVE THE ABILITY OF REDIRECTION FROM ALL THE REST STREAMS.

SO FINALY THE YP DIRECTORY SERVER OF STREAMSOLUTIONS IS NOT THE THING I NEED.

REGARDS

GV
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Old 3rd July 2006, 14:30   #6
gvastianos
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BTW SORRY FOR MY TYPOS....I WRITE FAST AND SOME TIMES I FORGET TO WRITE THE THINGS IN CORRECT WAY..SO AFTER I SEE WHAT I POSTED, I FREAK OUT WITH MY MISTAKES
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Old 3rd July 2006, 14:44   #7
bored_womble
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you got me curious about it, so I set up two relays from one of the published stations on there

and I get

07/03/06@14:34:37> [yp_add] yp.shoutcast.com added me successfully
<07/03/06@14:37:36> [yp_tch] new backup server a.b.c.dppp
<07/03/06@14:37:36> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<07/03/06@14:38:42> [active] 0 listeners (0 unique)

which is the relay I have relaying from , so there is *some* functionality in there, although perhaps not title functionality you are referring to.

one thing it does not do a backup across the two relays, but hey its a start ... only from the source.

for it to work i would do this

server 1 ( main server )

relay 2 -> from main server

relay 3 -> from relay 2

that appears to work correctly.

I think it is pretty amazing that someone is making the efforts to help out what has been a long draw out issue.

BW

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Old 3rd July 2006, 15:25   #8
gvastianos
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Well you are right....IT TRIED to make backup servers...but failed

When I saw your post i made a test in order to check if the way you tried it will work for me (btw this daisy chain relay is not correct because you have additional delay 90sec from one server to the other...so the daisy chain relaying will give 180 seconds delay from 1st server to 3rd server)

So after I did what you did....I saw after many 2min interval touches...an entry for one backup server that it was not one of my servers...The extreme thing was that this "backup" server was another stream server that was already listed in the directory and had completely diffrent stream from mine. In order to make the things clear my stream had title "KANALI7 98.4 FM STEREO CYPRUS" and the directory server was informing both of my servers to use as backup server another server that was listed in the directory with title "WwW.Dance-Fm.Co.uk"

Well I agree that it is pretty amazing that someone is making the efforts to help out what has been a long draw out issue.... but at this moment the directory of streamsolutions cannot even work properly and has serious bags!!!!!!!!!!! How they can give as backup server to my servers ...a server of another station???? The guys there need alot of work!

And again after the delivery of the "backup servers" the two streams where remain separate and not as one "cluster" entry...

So please lets STOP talking about the directory of streamsolutions...because the direction of this thread started to change and the rest viewers will start to get confused about what we are talking about.

Do you know how we can get in touch with the shoutcast programming team???

Again thanks for you time to answer my posts.

regards
gv
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Old 3rd July 2006, 15:28   #9
bored_womble
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i'll go and not try to help in the future ... any 'bags' as you put it ... i would address to them ...

BW

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Old 3rd July 2006, 15:41   #10
gvastianos
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wow man you reply very fast!!! the forum here started to remind me chatroom.

>>i'll go and not try to help in the future ... any 'bags' as you put it ... i would address to them ...

This is not the point! your help is allways welcome. When I said "plz stop talk more about this directory" I wasnt thinking to make you feel offended, I hope you got that.

With your posting it was a good chance to make some experiments..

About the 'bags' I mean 'bugs' (sorry I told you I make typos...)

Try to address them only the bugs...if you try address them the bags you will spend alot on shipping costs...

thank you
gv
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Old 3rd July 2006, 15:50   #11
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sorry it looked like it was getting into the usual arguing, about something neither of us have any control over etc ... ie. if it is doesnt work correct speak to them.

I was interested in it, as far as I can tell they appear to be making some effort to help people with the backup/clustering issue which many people have come to rely on ...

probably does have bugs as I know the Shoutcast people have spent years perfecting some of the logic

I too, do hope the Shoutcast YP does get fixed or they release a version which can be pointed elsewhere so functionality like backup can be done again :S

BW

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Old 3rd July 2006, 16:46   #12
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well i will add to this even though you wish to stop discussing the directory we have created in an attempt to assist people in getting the functionality they need for clustering their servers i will add my 2 cents

the post does mention
Quote:
We do welcome comments from those who want/found it useful as this is still in the testing phase.
the directory is not currently in place for people to come looking for streams as you can see it is a basic page with just the relevant information "you" can check to see if you are listed.

as we market the directory in the future and hopefully get others on board to use the functionality it will improve.

however thanks for testing it and it has highlited a few bugs which we have put right but please do remember it is here as an effort to help and not be condemed as it does not provide exactly what "you" need as everyones needs are different and we can add them as they are discussed in the thread we have created regarding our "free" offer.
http://forums.streamsolutions.co.uk/...hp?p=5799#5799

people have come to us and asked what we can do about the shoutcast yp not working and we have made an effort to assist.

if anyone else has better ideas or functionality that they can bring to the comunity and want to "try" and help do feel free to drop me a note and we can discuss it so that we as a comunity can move things forward instead of waiting/asking for it to be done for us.

Last edited by Nick@ss; 3rd July 2006 at 17:07.
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Old 4th July 2006, 09:17   #13
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well i gave it a go this morning, as Nick posted some issues had been fixed, and it does appear to work correct for backup servers regardless of the scenario ie. you do not have to daisy chain the relays to make it work.

top stuff.

BW

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