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Old 29th April 2003, 18:32   #1
oomingmak
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32bit floating point playback distortion

It seems that yet again playback of 32bit floating point wav files are horribly distorted (and completely unlistenable) in Winamp (v2.91). This has been the case with every release since I started using it at around v2.6.

At first I thought that this was just because 32bit float wav format was unsupported in Winamp, but I have since seen that 32 and 64bit wav playback is listed as a feature of version 2.91 and yet it still wont play properly even on this latest version. Not only that, but I have seen floating point options and check boxes on the configure dialog of the wav play plugin for WinAmp in v2.81 (so it appears that this feature should actually already be working).

I'd like to bring it to your attention because the same problem seems to exist in every release and it is not being attended to.

Hopefully it can be fixed soon.

Thanks
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Old 20th May 2003, 17:11   #2
oomingmak
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is anyone from the WinAmp development team going to confirm this ongoing problem?

Will it be finally fixed in the next version?

Please let me know.
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Old 20th May 2003, 19:03   #3
Lion King
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attach a short sample wav, please

could it be that your soundcard doesn't support 32bit input and it gets resampled somewhere?

dsp plugins and the eq might not work with 32bit stuff
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Old 6th June 2003, 15:21   #4
oomingmak
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Thanks for your reply.

I can assure you that this problem is specifically the fault of WinAmp and has nothing to do with my soundcard. I have mixed entire albums using 32bit floating point wav files with no problems at all. Also I do not use any WinAmp plugins, and I only use EQ on my MP3 files (not when playing wave files).

With regard to playback, even apps like Windows Media Player v6.4 can playback this format (as well as the usual more professional apps such as WaveLab, SoundForge, CoolEdit etc). However, I'd rather use WinAmp for preview playback because it deals better with playlists and therefore makes it easier try out diferent track orders before committing them to CD.

WinAmp plays 32bit fixed PCM files just fine and has settings referring to floating point in it's options page. It can also play 32bit 96KHz PCM wave files, so there is no reason why it should not play 32bit IEEE floating point as well (at the very least at 44.1KHz, but ideally at all supported sampling frequencies like it does with 24bit and 32bit PCM).

I had originally inteded to attach some samples, but I wondered if this was necessary, because anyone with a half decent audio editor could quite easily make some 32bit floating point smaples for themselves (and I assumed that the writers/ developers of WinAmp would have such software seeing as they are developing audio products). Plus, 32bit wave files are huge and I would have to cut it down to about 1 seconds worth in order for it to fit within the attachment size limit on this forum (and you wouldn't be able to tell anything from a 1 or 2 second sample).

I do have the samples already prepared (one 32bit float and one 16bit recording of WinAmp playing the 32bit float file). I could email them, or upload them to someone if this would help.

Please let me know.

Thanks
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Old 6th June 2003, 16:48   #5
Christophe
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Email me those WAV files at christophe@winamp.com.

Thanks,
-Christophe

- time heals but i'm forever broken
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Old 6th June 2003, 20:11   #6
oomingmak
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Thanks very much Christophe.

The wav files have now been sent.
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Old 20th June 2003, 18:16   #7
oomingmak
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Hello again Christophe,

In response to your email, I have now placed the wave files on an FTP server for you to download.

I have sent you an email containing the FTP login and download details.



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Old 26th December 2003, 12:29   #8
oomingmak
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I can not believe that after years of enduring this 32bit float playback problem in WinAmp (and after all the comments, emails, supplied samples, uploads to FTP servers etc.) version 5 comes out and still has exactly the same problem as all other versions of WinAmp.

Nothing whatsoever has changed with regard to this issue.

Sheesh.

Did you ever have any intention of fixing it? Or were you just humouring me?
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Old 26th December 2003, 16:44   #9
Christophe
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Lower your expectations. It'll probably be fixed eventually, which means maybe soon or maybe later.

Sheesh.

-Christophe
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Old 26th March 2004, 04:54   #10
Dandruff
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is this bug fixed in 5.03??? i need 32bit floating-point playback of wav-files!
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Old 3rd April 2004, 04:10   #11
justified
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Please, please

Yes I have the same problem.
Is there any way to fix it?
Answer please.
It's the only bad thing about winamp.
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Old 17th April 2004, 23:22   #12
oomingmak
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Hello guys,

No, the problem is still not fixed in v5.03.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. I have been waiting for about 2 years for a fix for this.

I have been told to "lower my expectations". I guess expecting an audio player to be able to 'play audio' (without distorting horribly) is expecting too much. There are clearly more important things to be attended to (such as web browsers, video playback and visualizations).

If you are desperate, you can try Foobar2000 (that's what I have started using). It's not pretty, but has masses of functionality and plays pretty much every format (including 32bit IEEE float) and it's free.
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Old 17th April 2004, 23:32   #13
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oomingmak thanks for your suggestion.

I see you received e-mail notification about this thread.

Actually I downloaded Foobar2000 the same day I posted my message, it's cool with floating point wavs.

But WinAmp is still on my PC for video playback and I also found it eats less cpu while playing mp3's and more handy with playlist etc than foobar2000.

So I use both now, but I agree that it's really ridiculous that WinAmp can not handle 32bit IEEE float wavs.

Added: Btw look at this thread :

KNOWN BUGS:

-32bit floating point playback distortion With .Wav Files

Maybe soon we'll see it fixed
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Old 18th April 2004, 00:09   #14
oomingmak
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Hi Justified,

Glad that you've also found a workable solution.

Personally I use Media Player Classic for all my video (it's very light on resources and plays everything).

Just out of interest, what kind of limitations you have found when using playlists in Foobar? I'd be interested to get your opinion, as I am still not that experienced with it.

One thing I really do like though, is being able to have multiple Playlists all open at once (on different tabs), and then being able to quickly flip between them. It's great when I am trying to work out the best track sequence before committing to CD. It makes comparing several alternative playlist versions much easier.

The 'ABX' and 'Bit Compare' functions have also become indispensable (bit to be honest, such features hadn't even occurred to me before using Foobar).

It's just a shame that the program is so butt ugly
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Old 18th April 2004, 00:22   #15
oomingmak
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Quote:
Originally posted by justified

Added: Btw look at this thread :

KNOWN BUGS:

-32bit floating point playback distortion With .Wav Files

Maybe soon we'll see it fixed
Hey, official recognition of the problem at last at last!
It looks like they might be considering fixing it after all.

Your pleading must have had more of an effect on them than mine did

Check the date on this
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Old 18th April 2004, 00:40   #16
justified
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Quote:
Originally posted by oomingmak
Hi Justified,
Just out of interest, what kind of limitations you have found when using playlists in Foobar? I'd be interested to get your opinion, as I am still not that experienced with it.
Most of all is that it doesn't show total time and slow loading (well really about 4-5 seconds) when opening many files.

Quote:
Originally posted by oomingmak

The 'ABX' and 'Bit Compare' functions have also become indispensable (bit to be honest, such features hadn't even occurred to me before using Foobar).

It's just a shame that the program is so butt ugly
Oh, I know nothing about these functions, gonna check.
And I really don't consider it ugly, even longer seek bar is much more handy than winamp's.
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Old 25th June 2004, 14:34   #17
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any news regarding this distortion-bug???
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Old 25th June 2004, 16:32   #18
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Still waiting...
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Old 25th June 2004, 17:14   #19
DJ Egg
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Look, it's listed in Known Bugs and it's on the "to-do" list.
It'll be done when it's done.
Just don't ask when.
kthx
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Old 25th June 2004, 17:29   #20
justified
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I will not.
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Old 12th July 2004, 19:49   #21
tolstoyl
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32bit floating point

32bit floating point wav files converted into the latest release of Wavpack format (lossless version) seem to playback fine in Winamp.
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Old 13th July 2004, 04:12   #22
Dandruff
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i want to play them directly without converting!
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Old 20th September 2004, 05:50   #23
doctrane
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sound distortion

Is this the sound distortion I hear, from my mp3's that have been created in totalrecorders, or music match, etc.

They sound fine in these playback programs, also fine with cdex... but in winamp, I hear a scratchy output in the high freq.... Annoying, in that winamp seems to have a great GUI to handle lists and playbacks.... but SOUND!... puzzling

Dave
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Old 20th September 2004, 14:27   #24
DJ Egg
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Were the mp3's encoded from 32bit floating point WAV files?

If not, then see here for technical support:

Troubleshooters - Common Issues

No sound, skippy/choppy/crackly playback, high VM usage, etc.
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....26#post1212926
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=166479
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Old 11th January 2005, 11:51   #25
DJ Egg
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Can anyone please confirm if the latest DirectShow Decoder will playback 32-bit floating point wav's without distortion?

Prefs > Plugins > Input > in_wave.dll > config
Remove WAV from the extension list (deselect it).

Then in the DirectShow Decoder (in_dshow.dll) config
add ;WAV to the extension list

(note: in_dshow only comes with Winamp Full, not Lite)


nb: If you're using the Media Library, WAV's will now be detected as a video format.
To circumvent this, edit the Audio and Video views accordingly:

Local Media > Audio > right click > Edit View > Advanced Editor tab > Query:
(type = 0) OR (filename ends wav)

Video view > Query:
(type = 1) AND !(filename ends wav)
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Old 11th January 2005, 12:40   #26
justified
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Doesn't work here.
Details:

in_wave.dll:
16 bit - ok
32 bit float (my sequencer can render two types of that) - distorted

in_dshow.dll (It says v0.93 - is it the lattest?)
16 bit - ok (though winamp shows zero bitrate info)
32 bit float (0.24) - file skips
32 bit float (16.8) - WinAmp crashes

Hope that helps.

PS Dunno what those numbers mean (16.8, 0.24).

Foobar2000 distorts only 16.8 file.
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Old 11th January 2005, 13:43   #27
gaekwad2
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Doesn't work for me either.

32 bit floating point wavs created with Audacity or foobar's diskwriter (both have only one option) get skipped regardless of output plugin or device, WiMP 9 plays them.
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Old 8th October 2005, 19:28   #28
oomingmak
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Any news on this long-standing issue? (it's been 10 months since the last post).

32bit float still not playing correctly in Winamp.
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Old 8th October 2005, 21:04   #29
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I seemed to have better success when associating WAV with in_dshow, and using ffdshow > audio decoder config > uncompressed = 32-bit float (enabled).

However, there are plans to replace PP's (author of foobar) old in_wave with an entirely new one based on libsndfile, which supports all the current/old waveform formats, 32-bit float, and then some. Just don't ask when, sorry. Alas, the current/old in_wave is seeing these files as 32-bit pcm, not 32-bit float, heh.
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Old 9th October 2005, 02:00   #30
justified
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
I and using ffdshow > audio decoder config > uncompressed = 32-bit float (enabled).
DJ Egg, can you please explain it? Where is this setting.
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Old 9th October 2005, 02:52   #31
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ffdshow is a DirectShow filter package (highly recommended for DivX, XviD, MPEG2 support and many other audio and video formats).

Install it, then follow the instructions in my previous post....

Ok, to be more precise:

Start > Programs > ffdshow > Audio Decoder Config > Codecs page:
Uncompressed (right at the bottom of the list) > click where it says "Disabled"
and change it to 32-bit float c/o the drop-down menu.

Then open Winamp and go to:
Prefs > Plugins > Input:
in_wave.dll > config > deselect WAV
in_dshow.dll > config > Add ;WAV

Seems to sound ok to me. It might also work for you, might not, dunno, heh :/
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Old 9th October 2005, 14:37   #32
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DJ Egg, thanks.
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Old 21st October 2005, 02:03   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
However, there are plans to replace PP's (author of foobar) old in_wave with an entirely new one based on libsndfile, which supports all the current/old waveform formats, 32-bit float, and then some. Just don't ask when, sorry.
Well that sounds more reasonable than starting to mess around with Peters old code. BTW, who needs 32 bit wavs anyway

I always thought that there wasn't any proof that increasing the audio bitrate would increase the listening pleasure.

Going from 16 bit color depth to 32 bit made some sense since the human eye is more sensual than the ear. But I think increasing that to 64 bit wouldn't let you detect any difference. It would be superior technically but with no benefit for humans as well (at least for 2D art).

eeeee eeeeeee eeeee eeeee eeeee
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 88
8eee8 8e 8 8 8eee8 8e 8 8 8
88 8 88 8 8 88 8 88 8 8 8
88 8 88 8 8 88 8 88 8 8eee8
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Old 21st October 2005, 14:28   #34
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Quote:
Well that sounds more reasonable than starting to mess around with Peters old code. BTW, who needs 32 bit wavs anyway
The big problem is that we're missing some source code, so Peter's old code won't even compile
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Old 21st October 2005, 14:44   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by amano
Well that sounds more reasonable than starting to mess around with Peters old code. BTW, who needs 32 bit wavs anyway

I always thought that there wasn't any proof that increasing the audio bitrate would increase the listening pleasure.

Going from 16 bit color depth to 32 bit made some sense since the human eye is more sensual than the ear. But I think increasing that to 64 bit wouldn't let you detect any difference. It would be superior technically but with no benefit for humans as well (at least for 2D art).
The benefit in both cases is additional headroom for editing, which is why lots of cameras and scanners use more than 8bit per colour channel.

But for listening, well, placebo can be very powerful.
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Old 22nd October 2005, 10:31   #36
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I'm a producer and have some samples in 32 bt format.
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Old 22nd October 2005, 14:26   #37
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i switched to foobar2000 because of this.
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Old 22nd October 2005, 15:16   #38
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Good for you. But did you even try my workaround?
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Old 22nd October 2005, 15:58   #39
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no. but thanks!
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Old 23rd October 2005, 00:06   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dandruff
no. but thanks!
well that's really helpful now isn't it. you're given a possible solution yet you don't even bother to give it a go. makes it seem almost pointless that people even tried to help out in the first place

-daz
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