Old 20th January 2004, 04:37   #1
deeder7001
Jesus Freak
(Forum King)
 
deeder7001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 5,520
Send a message via AIM to deeder7001 Send a message via Yahoo to deeder7001
persuasive essay

This my persuasive essay for English class. Tell me what you think of it. Please point out any mistakes so I can correct them.
Attached Files
File Type: txt persuasive.txt (1.9 KB, 163 views)

There is no sig.
deeder7001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 04:50   #2
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
Don't use basically. It makes your argument sound weak.

...is a crime because it is murder.

Same with "if"

For example, in the Peterson case Scott Peterson is...


Turn your questions into statements. Questions can be useful, but not when they make up a quarter of your essay. By asking so many questions, you're assuming the audience will draw the same conclusions you did. Use one question, then answer that question solidly. In your case, I'd make all your questions statements.

And I'm not big on using a quote to make up an entire paragraph. You could condense all of that into "The Declaration of Independence cites the right to live as an inaliable human right." Doing that, the listener/reader doesn't fall asleep listening to all that crap they've already heard. Get to the point, and punch 'em in the mouth with it.

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------

Last edited by Loveless; 20th January 2004 at 05:11.
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 05:25   #3
deeder7001
Jesus Freak
(Forum King)
 
deeder7001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 5,520
Send a message via AIM to deeder7001 Send a message via Yahoo to deeder7001
Is this a little better?
Attached Files
File Type: txt persuasive.txt (1.7 KB, 120 views)

There is no sig.
deeder7001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 06:26   #4
ryan
not fucked, not quite.
(Forum King)
 
ryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tn
Posts: 8,798
Send a message via AIM to ryan
I hate english class.
ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 06:36   #5
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
Learn French.

Ok, deeder, dunno if you still care. A few more things.

"I also have heard that an unborn child isn’t even considered to be a person."

This isn't something you've heard, it's an integral part of your argument. In your argument, abortion is murder, which means that a human being is being killed. Thus, by killing the fetus, the doctors are treating the fetus as an object, not a human. I'll leave it up to you as to whether/how to rephrase that.

I think it makes your paper stronger if you rephrase it as an assertion ("the humanity of the child is ignored, and"), and place it before "The child is killed..."

If you can, I'd still make your last paragraph stronger. What your trying to say is that one of the documents used to establish our way of life is now being used to destroy it. Accent that.

Overall, it reads much better.

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 07:03   #6
deeder7001
Jesus Freak
(Forum King)
 
deeder7001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 5,520
Send a message via AIM to deeder7001 Send a message via Yahoo to deeder7001
I hate english class too. I speak, read and write(sort of) english very well. If I pass all my classes this week, I will be done with high school. I think this may be my last assignment in english.

There is no sig.
deeder7001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 07:10   #7
Too-DAMN-Much
The Big Bad Boots
(Forum King)
 
Too-DAMN-Much's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 420 Big Buds Way
Posts: 3,964
Send a message via Yahoo to Too-DAMN-Much
*inalienable

I hate everyone, so you don't have to.
Too-DAMN-Much is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 07:11   #8
mark
Forum King
 
mark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Norn Ir'nd, leek...
Posts: 6,287
dont indent printed paragraphs. Its only written text you should do that to. So says my mum, who is doing her masters degree.
mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 10:45   #9
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
nobby nobbs is correct, it's an archaic formatting now. you used to do it in typed documents.

you might want to give a little more background on the peterson case, unless its assumed knowledge. you just kinda pull it out of the blue.

edit: oh, and i'm not persuaded

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 11:20   #10
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
nobby nobbs is correct, it's an archaic formatting now. you used to do it in typed documents.[/size]
Such is not a point that an author of a paper as is here presented would wisely press upon any but the most gracious of writing instructors.

Not to mention there are far more critical editing problems you could mention beyond that debatable bit of information.

Deeder - do you mean you're going to graduate or drop out?

And of course you're not persuaded. I have yet to understand why teachers pick such "big" topics. Might as well debate the composition of the human soul. My best persuasive paper in High School happened to deal with the outdated nature of the phrase "when pigs fly." It was quite persuasive. Of course, it helped that no one gave a shit.

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 11:34   #11
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
i can't remember what my persuasive essay was about in school. i can't remember it being very persuasive.

loveless- did you mean to quote a different thing? i can't make sense of your first paragraph.

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 12:24   #12
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
I meant it's not the kind of thing you really wanna bring up unless your writing is top-notch or unless you have a younger teacher. It's the kind of thing that can only really hurt you in High School.

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 17:06   #13
Vie
Forum King
 
Vie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Thoron fields and Duranium shadows. Posts: Crap mostly
Posts: 7,998
Andrew, tell them what we did in English class.


Doodled and discused startrek.

Member most in need of SpellCheck Lifetime Achievement Award

I'm a Twitch Streamer these days, it's weird.
Vie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 17:12   #14
mark
Forum King
 
mark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Norn Ir'nd, leek...
Posts: 6,287
we play cards....
mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 18:10   #15
Gabrielle Lunar
Member
 
Gabrielle Lunar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In Janus arms over Chronopolis
Posts: 63
Send a message via AIM to Gabrielle Lunar Send a message via Yahoo to Gabrielle Lunar
sounds good.... any persuasive speech should be on a topic you are passionate about... I just finished mine on flag burning for my debate class.
Gabrielle Lunar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 18:17   #16
Fickle
Butterknife of Justice
(Forum King)
 
Fickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Behind you.
Posts: 5,502
loveless seems to have the tools. As far as grammar goes, you should go over a few of my stories. It'd be appreciated.

I failed English in 8th grade, and yet I'm incredibly good at it (writing anyway) when I want to be. I'm good at doing real work, but since the entire year that year was worksheets and busy work, I decided I would boycott (it helped I never did homework as well).

The teachers pick vague topics because they want to know what you think of them, instead of trying to find out what you're interested in. If they did that, then they could actually teach you better, and we know the teachers want generic jobs that mean nothing. Well, all the ones I had anyway.

Go read a book without pictures
pabook? | Look, a blog! | Buy Stuff I Wrote
Fickle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 18:32   #17
zootm
Forum King
 
zootm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the nether reaches of bonnie scotland
Posts: 13,375
Quote:
Originally posted by Gabrielle Lunar
sounds good.... any persuasive speech should be on a topic you are passionate about... I just finished mine on flag burning for my debate class.
is flag-burning a topic you really feel strongly about? sorry to derail the topic, but i find that quite interesting.

i haven't done writing in ages. i used to love writing. i got good grades for it, despite the fact that i would deliberately break any rule that i was told, but in such a way as to try and make it valid.

the best example i can think of was my creative writing exam at higher - i was told that the exam board would "frown" upon swearing in any piece that was submitted. so my story was two pieces of prose describing actions (with no talking), and a conversation (with no background, just talking, as if a play with background) in the middle. almost every line of dialog in the a4 sheet of writing that made up that middle part had at least one swearword in it.

i got an A for that exam, as well

zootm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 21:02   #18
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
I always enjoyed showing papers like that to my classmates. nothing like breaking the rules they tried so hard to follow and getting 2 letter-marks higher than them.

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 21:29   #19
k_rock923
\m/
(Forum King)
 
k_rock923's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: /bin/bash
Posts: 7,850
Send a message via AIM to k_rock923
hey while we're looking over essays, can someone tell me what they think of my ss essay? its a big part of my grade. its a DBQ but if i did it right, then the documents aren't necessary to the reader.
Attached Files
File Type: txt reconstructin dbq1.txt (7.4 KB, 143 views)

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
k_rock923 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 23:02   #20
Namelessv1
Forum King
 
Namelessv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,757
Loveless gave some really good advice.

My suggestion is to be a bit bolder in your writing. Instead of saying "I feel that abortion is a crime because it is murder," just say that it is a crime because it is murder. Just remember to include good supporting evidence and well thought out analysis to back it up.

A few suggestions on diction:
Quote:
I also have heard that an unborn child isn’t even considered to be a person.
Instead of "I also have heard," you could use "Many argue that."

Quote:
Sometimes a fetus is born prematurely, on purpose, so that the doctor can kill it.
You could use "intentionally" instead of "on purpose."

Quote:
Originally posted by k_rock923
hey while we're looking over essays, can someone tell me what they think of my ss essay? its a big part of my grade. its a DBQ but if i did it right, then the documents aren't necessary to the reader.
Just finished the Civil War/Reconstruction Era unit in my ap history class. Insteresting stuff. What's the actual prompt question for the dbq?
Namelessv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2004, 23:22   #21
WomanOfHeart
Major Dudette
 
WomanOfHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Somewhere no one can find me...in my own head.
Posts: 978
I did persuasive speaking when I was on the speech team in high school. I chose abortion as my topic, much to the chagrin of my coach. At the time, I was anti-abortion and he felt the topic might be too controversial for a teen-ager.
I wish I still had the hard copy. I went to Nationals two years in a row with that speech!
Find more facts to incorporate into your speech. Try to stay away from using "I" so much. Yes, it is your point of view, but you aren't the topic. For instance, why should abortion be considered a crime? Why should it be considered murder? Do more research and get more facts to support your beliefs. While your opinion is important, this isn't an opinion paper. You're trying to convince people to see things your way in this matter. Think of it like this; you're an attorney trying to sway the opinion of a jury.

WomanOfHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 21:39   #22
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
Quote:
One large reason was the simple belief in the supremacy of the white rice.
Bwah, HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looking it over now, krock. Post if you don't want help no more, and save me the trouble reading it.

First impression? Pretty good, if you'd do a close rereading of it and fix stupid (even if it is funny) shit like the above.

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 21:43   #23
k_rock923
\m/
(Forum King)
 
k_rock923's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: /bin/bash
Posts: 7,850
Send a message via AIM to k_rock923
crap did i really write that?

Quote:
Looking it over now, krock. Post if you don't want help no more, and save the trouble reading it.
uh im confused?

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
k_rock923 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 21:53   #24
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
that's not what I said.

(I went back and put a me in there.)

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 21:56   #25
k_rock923
\m/
(Forum King)
 
k_rock923's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: /bin/bash
Posts: 7,850
Send a message via AIM to k_rock923
oh ok. yea i think this teaches that a proofreading is always a good idea. although you're right it was funny

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
k_rock923 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 22:42   #26
Loveless
Senior Member
 
Loveless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 421
Okie dokey, I've read it through.

I'm not sure at what level you're supposed to be writing, so I'm assuming High School. Overall it's fairly good. I don't have many specific examples of things you should fix, mostly you just need to go back and think about style.

Your second paragraph is weak. If you're only going to talk about one reason for the second-class status of African Americans, then don't talk about there being many reasons. Just start right in with "A primary reason..." If you are going to talk about several reasons, make it clear that you are doing so, using "A primary" "another" "yet another" and so on and so forth.

Your fourth paragraph is conceptually sound, but you really need to watch a shift in tense. Your preceding paragraph and the one that follows are written in a past tense. Switching to the present tense makes your writing sound sloppy.

Overall, I would really go back and revise the paper. For example, your fourth paragraph could use revision. I don't want to do it, because then I'm revising it instead of you, but here's an example. Instead of "If one looks at it from an economic standpoint..." use "For example, from an economic standpoint..." I would almost bet if you could tighten your entire paper up like that, you'd get a letter-grade higher score.

Your second and third paragraps are your worst. They have the loosest phrasing and are the least solid in their concepts. Part of my problem comes from the huge generalizations you make - how do you know that white Southerners really knew better (some people are true believers :wistful: ) and did the war really "start" with rebellion? Some say the war started even before the establishment of the United States, and while that's stretching it a little, I think your statement is a little too broad.

K, I'ma shut up 'coz I'm not helping much.

Cliffnotes version: Reread your paper, fix things like "white rice" (there are a few more in there), watch your tense and rewrite your second and third paragraphs.

WOT NO FANNY PACKS? (. .)
----------------------w-O-w-----------
Loveless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 23:14   #27
dlinkwit27
has no CT
(Forum King)
 
dlinkwit27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,235
Send a message via ICQ to dlinkwit27 Send a message via AIM to dlinkwit27 Send a message via Yahoo to dlinkwit27
"Abortion is something I am totally against." annoys me. Change it to "i am completly against" or anythign but "totally". You sound like a valley girl.
dlinkwit27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 23:28   #28
xzxzzx
Forum King
 
xzxzzx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,254
To deeder:

------

All of the advice on this thread is so far is quite correct.

However, rephrasing your essay to remove the first person perspective will give a significantly stronger impression on readers.

------
I think the people who have told you advice are right.

I'm for leaving the first person perspective in the essay, which will be more effective in convincing people.

------

I always like to give people a choice , though you'll notice I have, in fact, given each perspective a different (worse/better) writing style. I guess I'm just prejudiced, and I’m cheating for the choice I prefer. Eeh.

Anyway, onto my advice:

A stronger argument helps. Instead of saying
Quote:
Doctors put salt on the fetus as a technique to kill the unborn child.
, you could say something along the lines of
Quote:
Abortions are, in (some/many/most/all) cases not even humane ("humane" works, but depending on what you're arguing against, softens the blow of the argument against abortion in the first place, associating it with necessary deaths of dogs and so forth). In fact, there are techniques in which the doctor performing the abortion applies salt to the fetus to kill it, after the fetus being removed from the womb.
That's just an example (which could actually use some serious rewording, but is supposed to be an example of substance and style, not technical aspects per se), but it’s supposed to demonstrate that being more assertive will help your argument, changing it from "a protest" to "an argument".

You also need to show why an unborn child should be considered a human, because that is the point which anti-abortion arguments fail to address adequately (unless you're a Christian, I suppose).

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
xzxzzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2004, 23:35   #29
k_rock923
\m/
(Forum King)
 
k_rock923's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: /bin/bash
Posts: 7,850
Send a message via AIM to k_rock923
@Loveless, thank you very much for your help. I'm really trying to become a better writer. that was extremely helpful. The biggest lesson you just taught me was to reread the paper. Since i usually do it the night before, i don't always have time. That will be changing. I would have definitely noticed the white rice thing and that i switched tenses had i taken the time. Thanks dude!

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
k_rock923 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Community Center > General Discussions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump