Old 22nd January 2006, 21:41   #1
billyvnilly
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how much do you owe?

I saw this on digg: http://qntm.org/owe

Calculates the amount of street value your illegal downloads are worth.

mine is up there...
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Old 22nd January 2006, 21:48   #2
Bilbo Baggins
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I could buy a small house with mine...
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Old 22nd January 2006, 21:51   #3
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Mine is far less than my outstanding student loan.

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Old 22nd January 2006, 22:06   #4
eheiney
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My downloads total just over $50. As of yet, I've bought most of my music. And I don't have the time or the care to download movies, tv shows, games, et cetera.

But counting all my media: roughly $8,500. However, this also includes gifts from family and video games and movies and various CDs that I've stolen from friends.

Spiral out, my friend. You will find your way back to yourself, we all will.
I'll be waiting, and shall see you on the other side...
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Old 22nd January 2006, 22:09   #5
Bilbo Baggins
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The site does make the point not to include legal media that you have either bought or has been bought for you.
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Old 22nd January 2006, 22:19   #6
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about $14,829.79

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Old 22nd January 2006, 22:22   #7
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About $3000, but I'm sketchy with my memory...

With all the money I've saved, I can buy a 5.0 engine for my Mustang...

Now where will I get the cash...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 22nd January 2006, 23:33   #8
missyob
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I dont download music much anymore.

I will download an episode of a tv show if I miss it. Like 24 or lost!
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Old 22nd January 2006, 23:43   #9
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<3 24, cant wait 'til tommarow
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Old 23rd January 2006, 00:20   #10
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I found Lost to be such a good show, that I bought the Season 1 DVD box set when it came out...

Everything else is still subjective, since I've fallen into a money pit tons of times in the past with CDs and DVDs that I'll buy, but then won't like...Download first, figure if it's really worth buying...If not, I'll continue to break the law...

God, I'm such a cheapskate bastard...

"I just want to lie in my own crusty filth, eating rancid egg sandwiches, until some unfortunate paramedic has to blow down my door to find my bloated and pasty corpse wedged between the nightstand and mattress stained with Bengay and Robitussin DM." - Greg Gutfeld on sex and seniors
"Syphilis does not stay in Vegas. Debt collectors do not stay in Vegas. Dead hookers stay in Vegas, but the guilt stays with you forever." - Bill Schultz
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Old 23rd January 2006, 01:10   #11
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My collection changes regularly. I use to only have about 28 gigs to store stuff on, but I finally bought myself a 100gb USB harddrive for pirated stuff. I think a more accurate way to tell how much I pirate is by saying that I filled it up within 4 days.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 01:19   #12
ElChevelle
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I don't owe anything.
Nothing illegal in what I've done.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 01:25   #13
mikm
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About tree fiddy.

/obscure?

powered by C₈H₁₀N₄O₂
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Old 23rd January 2006, 01:41   #14
billyvnilly
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HAHA, no thats not obscure. and there should be alot of pirates out there that have seen it.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 02:32   #15
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Zip, zilch, nothing. Not a pirate in the bunch.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 02:39   #16
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The way I see it they still owe me.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 02:56   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikm
About tree fiddy.

/obscure?

OMG TEH LOCH NESS!~!!

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free.-*-If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0-*-Guess the band from pics game
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Old 23rd January 2006, 05:51   #18
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The way I see it they still owe me.
Quoted and resized for emphasis.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 08:00   #19
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$2k+ is what I owe.




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Old 23rd January 2006, 08:11   #20
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I didn't use the site. but I reckon a shed load.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
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Old 23rd January 2006, 11:22   #21
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The site was interesting with the statement "Have you ever had that much money?" and would you have spent it on movies and music if you did have it?.

I think that's a valid point. Does piracy really equal lost sales?.

Let's play the devils advocate. You have downloaded all the Star Trek episodes ever made and have them all on DVD-R's.

So lets go shopping at Amazon:

Star Trek the original series $380 retail.

Star Trek the Next generation $520 retail.

Star Trek DS9 $909 retail.

Star Trek Voyager $819 retail

and four seasons of Enterprise at $360.

Total $2988....

1. Who really has $2988 that they would spend on Star Trek?.
2. Who really would?.

I like Star Trek well enough, but I think the right to watch Star Trek is not worth $3000...

And if you did spend the $3000 on Star Trek, wouldn't a backup copy be high on your list of things to do?.

And shouldn't the $3000 entitle you to rip the DVD's for your video ipod or PSP?. Or loan em to your brother?.

Not according to the movie industry.

Bottom line :

Piracy != lost revenue
DRM == nuisance
Money == Staying in my wallet.

Quit wasting money on attorneys and provide products that people will want and can afford.

That's how you make money. This is called missing your price point....
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Old 23rd January 2006, 16:09   #22
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But isn't the fact that so many people DO pirate media give the various industries more power to be jackasses about their products?
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Old 23rd January 2006, 16:28   #23
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I woke up on the devil's advocate side of my bed this morning, so...

[devil's advocate mode]

Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
I like Star Trek well enough, but I think the right to watch Star Trek is not worth $3000...
But isn't that like a guy saying, "I like Ferraris well enough, but I think the right to have a Ferrari is not worth $175,000. So I stole one."

The word "right" is out of place in both sentences above. They are products, and the producers have the right to set whatever price they want for their products. Don't like it...don't buy it. But the question is, if you're not going to buy it, are you justified in "just taking it"?

Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
And if you did spend the $3000 on Star Trek, wouldn't a backup copy be high on your list of things to do?.
The DMCA allows for this. (Ref: http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf)

Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
And shouldn't the $3000 entitle you to rip the DVD's for your video ipod or PSP?. Or loan em to your brother?.
The DMCA allows for these things as well.


[/devil's advocate mode]

I DL, too. And I think the RIAA is a bunch of wankers. But the distribution and protection of intellectual property is still a tough and intriguing issue. Mainly because it's intangible. "Is it wrong to take a car without permission of the owner?" Of course. "Is it wrong to take some music without permission of the (copyright) owner?" Well......um....

I'm a psychosomatic sister running around without a leash.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 16:43   #24
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I'm deeply offended by the label "Pirate"!

I've got two eyes, no wooden leg and don't own a parrot.

Spaceplay, did you get that package?
I remembered that you may not be able to play it since almost all DVD's in europe use the PAL format while we use NTSC
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Old 23rd January 2006, 16:59   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
The DMCA allows for these things as well.
Bullshit.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
1\/\/4y 34|<$p4y 1gp4y 33714y, 0d4y 0uy4y? | Roses are #FF0000; Violets are #0000FF; chown -R ${YOU} ~/base
The DMCA. It really is that bad. : Count for your life.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 17:19   #26
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The DMCA allows a wide berth for making personal copies for a variety of reasons...I've had a contract lawyer and a patent lawyer say the same. All you have to do is claim one of these reasons, and then the onus would be on the RIAA (or anyone else) to prove otherwise. System diagnosis and material archival are the big two that anyone can use, but there are some other allowances as well. The DMCA allows for this because its creators aren't seeking to restrict personal use, even copying for personal use...just copying for distribution. This is debatable, but no self-respecting IP hawk would scream about making copies purely for personal use.

After all, a big issue is format. My FLAC decoder doesn't decode CD audio, or MP3s from iTunes, for that matter, so I rip. If copying for personal use were illegal, then MP3 players wouldn't have as much of a place in the world, because there's still a lot of music sold on CD.

And there's never been a law against "loaning" a copy of any copyrighted material to another person. Copying it is what's regulated (hence the term copyright).

In fact, the RIAA probably wouldn't have a problem at all with uncontrolled internet music distribution if downloading meant it were deleted from the source, or uploading likewise deleted it from the source. And I don't believe the DMCA would restrict it either.

Copying. That's the core of the issue. It's also why controlling an intangible product is so much more difficult than material items. Copying and distributing cars or watches isn't very easy. But anyone with a PC and minimal PC experience can copy and distribute intellectual property. In fact, anyone with a cassette recorder can do it as well.

I'm a psychosomatic sister running around without a leash.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 17:24   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by seraphim
But isn't the fact that so many people DO pirate media give the various industries more power to be jackasses about their products?
Whatever you do, they'll twist it to their liking:
If you stop buying CDs/DVDs it proves piracy is a problem.
If you continue to buy them it shows that you don't mind DRM and agree with everything the industry does.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 17:30   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
But isn't that like a guy saying, "I like Ferraris well enough, but I think the right to have a Ferrari is not worth $175,000. So I stole one."
No. Because in that instance smoeone has actually lost something- a Ferrari. Noone actually loses anything by copying software. You end up with two identical instances of the same thing. Much the same way as if you copied a Ferrari with a replicator (or something)

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
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Old 23rd January 2006, 17:30   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by gaekwad2
If you continue to buy them it shows that you don't mind DRM and agree with everything the industry does.
...or that you can consistently hack DRM, making it as irrelevant as tearing the "federal law" tag off your mattress.

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Old 23rd January 2006, 17:31   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phily Baby
No. Because in that instance smoeone has actually lost something- a Ferrari. Noone actually loses anything by copying software. You end up with two identical instances of the same thing. Much the same way as if you copied a Ferrari with a replicator (or something)
Very good point. But losing the product isn't the concern of IP owners. Losing a sale is.

(Also, copying a Ferrari for distribution would be illegal too...a violation of the very same copyright/patent laws, in fact.)

I'm a psychosomatic sister running around without a leash.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 17:49   #31
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CRIPPLEFIGHT!!!

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Old 23rd January 2006, 18:19   #32
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about 7k in music alone.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 18:28   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
CRIPPLEFIGHT!!!

[Image]
muwhahaha

i'm ~£3k it seems (and that's taking the legal music out as best as i can approximate)

-daz
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Old 23rd January 2006, 19:00   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
irrelevant as tearing the "federal law" tag off your mattress.
ouch!

btw I just sorta guessed since I'm at work but I'm somewhere in the 20 thousand range...
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Old 23rd January 2006, 19:25   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
Very good point. But losing the product isn't the concern of IP owners. Losing a sale is.

(Also, copying a Ferrari for distribution would be illegal too...a violation of the very same copyright/patent laws, in fact.)
I'd probably say I have had well over 20-30k of software in the past. Believe me, as a student noone's lost any more than £100 because I simply never had the money for these things.

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
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Old 23rd January 2006, 19:39   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
The DMCA allows a wide berth for making personal copies for a variety of reasons...I've had a contract lawyer and a patent lawyer say the same.
But that doesn't include breaking the copy protection to exercise your rights under fair use. It's even illegal to discuss how to do it.

Macrovisioned video tapes started this years ago.

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/guide/
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Old 23rd January 2006, 20:00   #37
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good that they didnt include software :P

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Old 23rd January 2006, 20:23   #38
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Old 23rd January 2006, 20:46   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
But that doesn't include breaking the copy protection to exercise your rights under fair use. It's even illegal to discuss how to do it.
It's quite true that breaking DRM is illegal. DRM is a seperate battle from the core of IP protection. It's a "bastard child" of the IP protection campaign, born from desperation.

As for even discussing it...that's a First Amendmant battle that they lose on. It's legal to discuss anything, practically, including how to break into someone's home or build an explosive device. Neither they nor anyone else will restrict what people can discuss. If they had an appropriate NDA (non-disclosure agreement) with a person, then that person couldn't discuss the topic defined in the NDA. But you can't enforce open discussion among people who do not hold national secrets or corporate knowledge that is itself IP.

Trading materials used to break DRM is illegal, however, just as trading bomb materials would be. But discussion is never against the law.

[OT digression...]
Many of us live under the principle of "freedom or death". This country was founded on the idea that when our government becomes corrupt or oppressive, that it should be replaced. So if a law tells me what I can or cannot discuss, then I'll start discussing how to overthrow the government of the United States. (Sometimes treason is necessary. After all, this country was founded by committing treason. Right?)
[/OT digression...]

So to summarize: The act of breaking DRM is illegal. Exchanging with another person materials designed to break DRM is illegal. But discussing any detail of how to break DRM is within the law. (Regardless of some misdirections you'll see to the contrary.)

I'm a psychosomatic sister running around without a leash.
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Old 23rd January 2006, 21:41   #40
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I think all a DMCA lawyer would have to do is pass wind and I'd raise the white flag... so much for freedom of speech...
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