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View Poll Results: what do you think of the new shoutcast browser
Love it 57 20.58%
Hate it 178 64.26%
Its about the same to me 42 15.16%
Voters: 277. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th February 2006, 05:00   #121
JJay!
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using IE to display radio/tv list?!! Oh c`mon you guys.. You know HOW LONG IT TAKES TO DISPLAY ~1000 streams of radio on this thing on slow PC? Nonono, never use it plz. I downloaded old lib and happy again, but downgrading to lib everytime I install newer version - brrr.. sux..

Thnx. JJ
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Old 26th February 2006, 05:30   #122
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Did I change a setting or something or has the layout changed since yesterday..?? Weird.
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Old 26th February 2006, 05:34   #123
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Yes, the layout has changed since yesterday. See DjEgg's posts.

Count with us!
Jan 1st, 12AM (PST, GMT -8) 2010 - 282,246
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Old 26th February 2006, 05:42   #124
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Ahh ok no problem, just saw it now.. Only problem now is the columns aren't adjustable, so you're forced to extend the Media Library window to view it all. Hopefully they'll take note of that.

[Edit --> DJ Egg]
Please read
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Old 26th February 2006, 11:38   #125
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JJay!: if you'd bothered to properly read the thread you'd have seen this explanation

general comment: a browser control is done so the changes can be made server side, a client side setup like it used to be would require a new version of the ml_online dll for every reiteration and change to be made. it's basically done for ease and flexibility which a hard coded dialog resource based setup can't easily provide without even more dev time and resource usage.

so you have the choice of either a few minutes to change something server sdie or spend a few days re-building the whole hard coded ui to get the same. now how many of you are going to choose the second option if you were in the smae situation?

-daz
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Old 26th February 2006, 12:04   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by ambisense
For the love of GOD, please DO NOT use internet explorer... look how itunes did it.. they did it perfectly without any browsers. and yes i only registered on this forum to complain about 5.2
itunes still uses the web, they use AppleWebKit, a fork of khtml.
windows media player still uses the web, they use IE.
songbird still uses the web, they use gecko (now named XULRunner).

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Old 26th February 2006, 13:56   #127
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Not Only Shoutcast Browser (Winamp Music Problem Too)

Altough I downgraded now old good media library. When I Use 5.2 Library I saw one other error too. It was Not A Genre Or whatever Explorer on winamp music pages. It Was Empty Window Except Featured Video or Audio Part.
By the way you said a limit in the old version 1000 stream but i think you limited that not limitation of programming because in 2005 I remember I Changed Limit Number of Listings Fetched page to 5000 I get 5000 stream info same time in your library. Am I Wrong... It was little bit long but it was good. "Also I'm A Broadcaster In Shoutcast And You said you did this for Amateur and Unpopular Broadcasters" "I Was happy the old system because my stream is so amateur and Slow and if somebody wants to search Slower or Unpopular radio he/she can easily search in yp.shoutcast.com or www.shoutcast.com anything he/she wanted"
"winamp: 5.2 with old ml " and Please Make Winamp 5.21 with improved old ml "Old ML needed only improve not needed a revolution" I think it is only a bad experience like winamp 3's some problems.
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Old 26th February 2006, 16:08   #128
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Change is tough for everyone

I think change is a difficult challenge for anyone...

The new browser presents several challenges and is definitly something new to learn....It is like when XP replaced Windows 9X, it was all the same, just a different set of tools...

Given time, these new changes and new tools willbe the norm for everyone and that most of htis is just reaction to change...

Get to know the changes and the new advantages...look at the glass as half full..and lets talk about it again in a month

Just a thought....


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Old 26th February 2006, 16:29   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
itunes still uses the web, they use AppleWebKit, a fork of khtml.
windows media player still uses the web, they use IE.
songbird still uses the web, they use gecko (now named XULRunner).
their music store, yes. their radio, no.
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Old 26th February 2006, 16:31   #130
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their radio listings are but a fraction of the size.

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Old 26th February 2006, 17:55   #131
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new shoutcast browser is soooooo terrible!!!
i use 5.1 further..
is there a patch or something to get the old browser in 5.2!?
ThX
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Old 26th February 2006, 19:40   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by patseiter
new shoutcast browser is soooooo terrible!!!
i use 5.1 further..
is there a patch or something to get the old browser in 5.2!?
ThX
You should read the whole thread, drewbar posted a link to the old 5.13 library...
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Old 26th February 2006, 20:06   #133
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DUH!!!

Ok, now I feel about like an idiot. That's what I get for trying the new 5.2 Pro after not sleeping for 37 hours.

I figured out sorting by bit rate, etc. in the Shoutcast listings; but it seems like there are fewer stations listed. Before 5.2 I could have sworn that there were well over 300 streams for Metal stations. Oh well, I mostly listen to a couple of them anyway (as long as they are listed I'm happy).

But one thing still bothers me; the sound quality still sounds almost as if I am standing inside a tin can.

On my comp I have an Audigy 2 Platinum card running the SPDIF off the front panel out to my Denon receiver going out to 4 Paradigm surrounds, one Paradigm 10" sub and a 25" Boston Acoustics center.

Just for kicks I uninstalled the 5.2 Pro and installed 5.13 Pro with the same EQ settings in Winamp. The tin can sound went away again… went back to 5.2 and the tin can sound was back.

Was there a big change to something with the sound quality in Winamp?
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Old 26th February 2006, 20:33   #134
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Hi. Just tried the new browser again. It's certainly much better than yesterday (it is now like a table), but it still looks and feels like a webpage.

Ok, i do understand more changes are to come, but let me give you *my* point of view as of right now:

There is some design confusion - the design is different from the rest of winamp. Imo website-style doens't fit into the winamp user interface at all. I know it's good that things can be changed serverside, but i don't think website-style can be made to look/feel as clean as it did in v5.13. I guess look and feel is pretty important to a program where f.e. skins is a big part of it's success. Atleast i think it's a big part of my user experience with winamp.
(i don't care if IE is used or not. As long as you can't see that it's a website, and it acts like the rest of winamp i don't care if IE is used to something underneath or not.)

Apart from the look and feel, i miss the cool quick-search, and the bandwidth-options (etc). Other things i miss are f.e. the "bookmarks", and "recently played". I also miss that you could resize the columns and sort by different columns. Also perhaps the icons in the 'sidebar' looks a bit confusing compared to how it looked before.


I see the good things about the new version (>1000 stations, design/functionality can be changed serverside), but i would think these things could be achieved without making winamp act and feel like a website (like many other programs unfourtunately also have done.. realplayer f.e.). (maybe some form of winamp-XML instead of HTML? Or some extended HTML with special winamp-layout/functionality tags?)

All in all: i think it would be nice to keep the interface like it was (improvements are good, but as someone said: a "revolution" of the interface is not needed). The v5.13 interface was very clean and fast/easy to use, and it's design fittet charmingly into the rest of winamp.
(the same seems to apply to the rest of the entries in the "online media" section - i haven't really used those before, tho)

I don't know if the majority of users thinks like i do, but atleast you now have one point of view. :)
(or maybe i'm just being a bitch - after all i am one of those who think wmp/realplayer are bloated pieces of crap :). I'll stop bothering you now :))


Anyway, great improvement since yesterday, but i still think 5.13 was better. (so i'll revert to that one again for some time)
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Old 26th February 2006, 20:50   #135
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Zxy, nice posting and good arguments.

Quote:
Apart from the look and feel, i miss the cool quick-search
Yep, this was some kind of Find as you type (known from Firefox), you type a few letters and Winamp shows all things, wich contains these letters.

I miss this feature in 5.2.
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Old 26th February 2006, 21:39   #136
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Zxy I agree with you 100%. Judging by the 75% negative votes in the poll I think a lot of people do.

- Oshyan
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Old 26th February 2006, 22:05   #137
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I take it you're keeping an eye on the edits in this post?
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Old 26th February 2006, 22:11   #138
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Sure, but it's not the same, isn't it?

I use the old ML, you cannot compare it. The new design is very slow even with DSL 2000, and this has nothing to do with my system.

Find as you type doesn't work with the new interface.

Sorry, but just my 2Cent.
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Old 26th February 2006, 22:35   #139
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Coming Soon


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Old 26th February 2006, 23:44   #140
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Ive got a problem with the search function of the new Shoutcast Radio screen. When you search for "a" than rapidly memory usage starts growing to over 100MB and my processor(3GHz HT) usage go's to 50% CPU on the two virtual processors. Winamp also stops responding to mouse events. When the search term is longer then it does not lock up as fast but stil memory usage was slowly climbing.

[Edit]
Sorry i shouldn't have posted this here.
Going to post this bug report in the bug report forum.
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Old 27th February 2006, 00:07   #141
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Very nice indeed criagF, let me know when it is implemented. Now that joonas has updated my favorite plug-in , all I am waiting for is a less cumbersome shoutcast as impetus to switch back to 5.2. Keep up the good work .
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Old 27th February 2006, 00:33   #142
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What did I miss CraigF

CraigF,

In your Coming Soon message

What you displayed is available to me now, so what was it I obviously missed?

Thanks,

Terry
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Old 27th February 2006, 00:57   #143
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The only extra (visible?) change there is:

-Single-click to hi-lite, double-click to play

-Hi-lite + Enter = play / Hi-lite + Shift + Enter = Enqueue

ie. There's still plenty more to come yet.
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Old 27th February 2006, 01:01   #144
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shoutcast browser is getting better.

I'd like to say THANK YOU to the winamp development team who has listened to the users and added back the ability to sort by "listeners".
The updated listing view is almost as good as the old view with the power of listing more than 1000 streams.

I wish, however, I could right-click and add to bookmarks... Also, there doesn't seem to be an "All" genre... yet.

Keep the updates comming, it's looking much better...
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Old 27th February 2006, 04:06   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
So you want to go back to being limited to a list of the top 1000 streams only?
I know for sure that I don't :/

There's over 13,000 sc radio streams available to you in the new browser.

[Edit]

Please read this first before posting

...and this post too


.
---But, the quantity of sc radio streams has nothing to do with how those items are listed - just give back the old way of listing so we can get on with our lives. At the very least, offer a choice of the new and the old. And , of course, never remove the old.
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Old 27th February 2006, 04:16   #146
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Re: Change is tough for everyone

Quote:
Originally posted by VastOne
I think change is a difficult challenge for anyone...

---but change for change's sake is always a bad idea - in any business.

The new browser presents several challenges and is definitly something new to learn....It is like when XP replaced Windows 9X, it was all the same, just a different set of tools...

I agree, the new browser is good, but, a FULL listing of ALL streams in the sc radio section should be made available - much like it is available at Shoutcast.com!

Given time, these new changes and new tools willbe the norm for everyone and that most of htis is just reaction to change...
I certainly hope not, as amatter of fact, I want to be able to download 5.13 NOW. How do I do that. All I can find from oldversion.com and many, many places like it are the Full and Lite versions, not the Pro - and I paid 20 bucks for the priveledge. So, I want version 5.13_Pro for download NOW.

Quote:
Get to know the changes and the new advantages...look at the glass as half full...
--- that is not the correct analogy nor philosophy to take when things are changed as drastically as 5.2 was.

Quote:
...and lets talk about it again in a month
in a day, I hope the old way of listing returns even of only By way of a download area on the winamp.com site for the 5.13 Pro version - until the old browse method is re-introduce int the new 5.2 Pro.
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Old 27th February 2006, 04:18   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by Koopatrooper
You should read the whole thread, drewbar posted a link to the old 5.13 library...
And you should provide that link.
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Old 27th February 2006, 04:30   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
Update

Thanks to everyone for your noted comments & criticisms

The following changes are now top priority and imminent:


-Shoutcast TV List will load with the full list of available streams again

-Alternating color scheme is going (going, gone) *

-Increase default font size to Winamp default *

-Make font size follow global Playlist/Media Library setting *

-Listener counts return, with option to Sort by: Listeners *

-An option (eg. 'All' in Quick Genre drop-down menu) to bring down the full list (~13,000). Note, this may take some time to load, especially on slower connections.
(we might filter out stations with 0 listeners to speed up the load time).
--- please, let the USER do the filtering. Honestly, I really dont think you know WHY there have been so many complaints. There can be no good reason to eliminate the zero listeners in a listing, especially when we might be looking for a new stream, or a stream that we havent yet bookmarked - but wouldnt be able to find again just because there are no listeners? That just makes no sense. And as far as load time? use X M L . Jeez! No, on another note, just simply code to read server-side (or have option to ask or re-set on client-side - or both-side actually ) the connection speed, as does RealPlayer (and WMP plugins), and if the speed is slow, then put the filter in, but also allow for a background download of the zero-listener stations for those slower connections
Quote:

-A 'show top 100' type of option/link

-Fix the Search field bugs (Select/Delete text, currently only Backspace works)

-Columnize the listings again *

-Lists sortable by clicking column headers again
ie. Name | Now Playing | Type | Bitrate | Listeners *

-Make the columns resizable

-Compression methods for speeding up list load on slower connections

-Single-click to hi-lite, double-click to play

-Hi-lite + Enter = play / Hi-lite + Shift + Enter = Enqueue

-Bandwidth filter returns

-Configurable options to eg. change rt-click to keep existing play/enqueue menu or just make rt-click = enqueue, etc.

-Remember most recent genre selection when switching ml views

-Extra Station Name A-Z bar along the top, under Genre Selection

-Add bookmark back to rt-click context menu

-Fix support for Text Reader apps for the visually impaired



These will be the initial changes made, though there WILL be more to come.

We appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter.



Note: the above changes can all be applied serverside,
ie. without any clientside updates being required.

Also note that the same changes to the SC-TV view won't be applied until
at least Monday afternoon (27th Feb), because it requires a fair amount of extra work.

Key
* == applied
WOW, now I am really truly impressed. You guys really do in fact pay attemtion to concerns, comments, complaints, and polls. Tahnk you!
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Old 27th February 2006, 04:56   #149
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Re: "please let the user do the filtering..."

You never even got to see any streams with a Listener Count less than 10
in the old Online Media section from 5.13, because those were all filtered out
by the 1000 limit (ie. it just loaded the top 1000 streams with the most listeners by default,
and that was all you ever got). So you can't really complain about that now, heh.

The streams with no listeners will still come up in the individual Genre results,
just not when you select "All", because if they did come up under "All"
then (as Tag explained earlier in the thread)
you will have to wait for a 40mb xml file to load all the info for all 13,000 streams.

Filtering out streams with 0 listeners (just for the "All" results) will considerably reduce the load time.
Though yes, this may well change again at a later date, once the
"Compression methods for speeding up list load on slower connections" is coded and applied
(alas, even though that entry is in my list, it will actually require
a clientside update to be applied, maybe for 5.21).

Please also note that a lot of the votes in this poll were placed prior
to the initial changes made yesterday (ie. the ones marked with a red asterisk).
I guess it would be rather interesting to see a new poll once the vast majority
of the proposed changes have been applied in a couple of days time, heh.
It's still early days yet, so we shall see. Just don't lose faith, that's all.

Re: old gen_ml.dll from 5.13 = here

Re: 5.13 download = here
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Old 27th February 2006, 13:43   #150
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DJ Egg, I suggest to be much more open for concerns like this. I have to agree with most concerns in this thread and as many posters stated before the new Library is very slow. I'm sure that most of the users who use Winamp for streamed internet-radio and -TV are not sitting on 56k-modems. I by myself got a 3mbit ADSL connection and it is simply inefficient

a) to wait 15 seconds per reload of each library site (this is how long I have to wait ) and
b) to load "old" data again from the webserver.

Don't call you "customers" to have a faulty internet connection. At least I know that my connection is ok because I didn't and still don't have problems with any other application which massively loads data from the internet (e.g. http://maps.google.com). If other applications work with their proper functionality the problem cannot be the "customer" (or his computers, internet connections etc).

It was suggested to compress the whole html data and decompress it before output (a feature IE supports by itself afaik, buzzword "gzip"), at least this would decrease traffic to be transfered on server- AND on clientside. Once downloaded, station data could be cached for a couple of minutes and further downloaded data could be added to this cache. This would improve handling of Winamp as clientside application and its user interface a lot.
As sidenote: to force winamp users to use the Internet Explorer, widely know for its many critical bugs, is another story. But after you've chosen this way for the library you should make further steps: use more javascript/dhtml! (I don't want you to use AJAX but you could use techniques like AJAX)

Also it's now very hard to find channels which aren't bookmarked and whose Genre the user cannot remember. Fine, one could use the search and the user get the channel. But the user does not get the Genre where he could look into next time he needs this channel again.
Furthermore, I am unable to mark a channel name or description. If the listings are plain html, why the hell am I unable to mark a channel's name and copy it to clipboard?
And last but not least, I cannot confirm your more than once stated "List of almost 13.000 stations when selecting 'All genres'". I get exactly 6 stations after selecting "all" in the genre dropdown - and this number is way too low imho.

Well, I installed v5.2 because of fixes for critical winamp bugs. Seems I misread the changelog ("improved media library with slow & bad user interface") But you fix those nasty "bugs" soon, I suppose
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Old 27th February 2006, 15:21   #151
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Yeah, some of the larger Quick Genres, eg. Rock or Pop might take about 10 seconds to load,
but that's because there's over 1000 results for those genres.
How long did it used to take to load 1000 stations in the old Shoutcast browser?
(remember, the default value was 500, and the max limit was 1000).
Hopefully the new compression methods coming later will fix all those issues.

However, the smaller Quick Genres (Alternative, World, etc) load in about 2 to 5 secs for me,
whereas the smaller ones from the A-Z listings load almost instantly,
and my connection is only 2mbit, heh.

Anyway, as already stated, we've heard you, all of you,
and things are being fixed.

Again, only the entries in that list with an asterisk next to them are the ones which have been applied.
Note that the "All" entry doesn't have an asterisk next to it yet.

We are winning some people over already,
and hopefully there'll be more once all the updates/changes have been applied.
So again, please bear with us.
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Old 27th February 2006, 17:31   #152
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This is a shit change that should be reverted, instead of screwing things up why not fix the problems the current one has?

As you can see i hardly ever post on the forums but this is crappy enough to post on!! change it back!
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Old 27th February 2006, 18:02   #153
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i really do hate the new browser especialy since it doesnt work well, and it made 20 times worst to find things.
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Old 27th February 2006, 18:14   #154
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When I look at the voting and exlude the people who don't care ("the same to me") we have 15% pro and 85% con . Looks like a rather clear judgement to me.

Would you -regarding these results- at least consider to implement both the old view and the new one in a later version?
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Old 27th February 2006, 18:21   #155
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winamp video

i've been trying my best to read through this whole stream and havn't found anything referencing the old winamp video. Now i have this singing fish thing instead. any luck in going back to the old browse videos screen? i liked being able to easily flip through the vids.
I do applaud ya'll on listening to the customers and doing quick turn arounds and posts to the forums. one of the reasons i've been using winamp since winamp2... keep kickin' the llama's ass!
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Old 27th February 2006, 18:24   #156
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This all seems a bit unrealistic to me....I equate this to people at a church who believe that the church is theirs only and DO NOT CHANGE A THING...not even the paint...

But these people are blue haired old fogies....

Come on Y'all, learn to use the new one, get under the hood, and get to know it....

I initially thought it was to say the least a frustrating change, but now that I have used it, I am thoroughly enjoying it...

There are work arounds to go back to the old view, but it is well documented what you will be giving up....

It is also well documented that the fine dev staff at Winamp is taking this very seriously and although I doubt there will be a return to a 5.1x format, expect something to accomodate 85% of us...

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Old 27th February 2006, 18:27   #157
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BTW, the Singing Fish thing does not work on my setup...It comes up fine in Winamp, but when I select a song to "go out" to and get, Winamp just turns off...does not crash, it just turns off....I use Firefox and Singing Fish may be confused on browsers, but I have no logs or indications of failure and since I have never used Singing Fish, I am not hurting...

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Old 27th February 2006, 18:29   #158
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Quote:
I use Firefox and Singing Fish may be confused on browsers,
It doesn't matter wich browser you're using as default. The whole Online Service in Winamp 5.2 uses the Internet Explorer. Maybe it's a bug or a problem on your system.
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Old 27th February 2006, 18:31   #159
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Which is why I said it may be browser confused....although everything else on my system knows or is told when to you use IE and when not to

Doubt if it is my system, since evrything else is 99999999999 up and running to perfection...Again, since I have no indication of what it is supposed to be doing, i have no idea where it is failing...

Thanks,

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Old 27th February 2006, 18:39   #160
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I've just reinstalled the new library to test it.

Singing Fish works fine on my system, and yes, Firefox is my default webrowser too.
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